View source for Suggestion talk:20070730 Consumer Weapon

===Crowbar Usefulness===
But Crowbars are useful for de-barricading. They can de-barricade over-caded buildings and get inside to so some searching. [[Talk:Suggestions|&#39;]][[User:Armareum|arm]][[User_talk:Armareum|.]] 01:07, 30 July 2007 (BST)
:Not useful when they are only 5% hit.--{{User:Karek/sig}} 01:27, 30 July 2007 (BST)
::[[Crowbar]]s are (apparently) 20% to hit at barricades (maxed out) compared to fire axes at 15% (maxed out) because [[fire axe]]s have their to hit % halved, along with the other melee weapons except for the crowbar <small>The preceding signed comment was added by [[User:Boxy|boxy]] ([[User talk:Boxy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Boxy|contribs]]) at 09:54 Monday July 2007 (BST)</small>
:::(Oops, wrong figures edited) Has anyone actually tried debarricading with a knife BTW? Half of 50% to hit... that'd be weird <small>The preceding signed comment was added by [[User:Boxy|boxy]] ([[User talk:Boxy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Boxy|contribs]]) at 10:01 Monday July 2007 (BST)</small>
::::Yep, its the ONLY way I attack barricades as a survivor.  More effective than a crowbar.  Equally efective as maxed zombie claws.  The knife is also the official tool of GK and RK work, because it has a really high hit rate and the damage is irrelevant- plus, obviously it need no ammo.  {{h|black|__<big>[[User:Swiers|'''Swiers''']]</big>__[[Image:BigEYEwitnessLOGO.png|60px]]_}} 15:15, 30 July 2007 (BST)

===survivor XP gain after death===
There are better ways to get XP's than killing zombies, yah know?  The fastest is to search for FAK's and heal people.  A consumer actually has an ADVANTAGE over a medic when doing this.  Sure, the consumer doesn't start with any FAKs, but then the do finally find somebody who is wounded, they can earn more XP off of them.<br>Another option would be to look for dead bodies to dump.<br>Where the consumer (and every other starting survivor) is really screwed is when they die.  See how slow you gain XP with that unskilled crowbar?  That is <s>EXACTLY the same</s> '''half''' rate you will earn XP as a zombie attacking zombies without Vigor Mortis- which is pretty much the only method you can use, given your pathetic movement rate.  Difference is, you loose 15 AP a day, standing up from headshots!    ''(edit- as opposed to loosing 15 AP a day moving to and from safe shelter)''<br>Attacking barricades without vigor mortis is even SLOWER way to level than the consumer-crowbar-zombie-bash.<br><s>Point being, the suggestion here is like a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.  I'm not gonna vote kill, but I see no point in voting keep, because the survivor-turned-zombie is MUCH worse off.</s>''Edit- I actually looked at it, and my math, as well as other assumptions, were a bit off.  Unskilled zombies are bad, but not THAT bad.  They level in 15 days at worst, and usually faster.''  {{h|black|__<big>[[User:Swiers|'''Swiers''']]</big>__[[Image:BigEYEwitnessLOGO.png|60px]]_}} 02:15, 30 July 2007 (BST)

===Suggestion discussion===
#So many times starting item ideas are shot down. Why? Because they suck. We don't need new starting items. No new items. No new places to find items. We need to deal with barricades. Barricades were good when malls had at most 50 people defending them. Now you have on average 400-600. No need for that amount of barricade levels. --[[User:Saromu|Sonny Corleone]] <sup>[[ The Ridleybank Resistance Front|RRF]] [[Council of Leaders|CoL]] [[DORIS]] [[Caiger Resistance Front|CRF]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91a8pHj7V9k pr0n]</sup> 06:42, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#:Wait, What? One building has no doors, and another can't be above VS, and I'm not sure if your aware, but this over-laps a PD with a next to useless building. (Wait, wha-?)--[[User:Labine50|Labine50]] <sup>[[Malton Hospitals Group|MHG]]|[[Malton Emergency Medical Service|MEMS]]</sup> 06:53, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#::We don't need it though. We don't need to add anything. We need to fix what is broken --[[User:Saromu|Sonny Corleone]] <sup>[[ The Ridleybank Resistance Front|RRF]] [[Council of Leaders|CoL]] [[DORIS]] [[Caiger Resistance Front|CRF]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91a8pHj7V9k pr0n]</sup> 06:56, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#:::You are like the king of clarity. What do you mean by that?--[[User:Labine50|Labine50]] <sup>[[Malton Hospitals Group|MHG]]|[[Malton Emergency Medical Service|MEMS]]</sup> 06:58, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#::::I mean is the game fucking broken without a shitty consumer weapon? Is it? Huh? No it isn't.
#:::::That isn't a really good reason to vote spam. It's not like Kevan is going to make one more update then stop updating the game.--[[User:Labine50|Labine50]] <sup>[[Malton Hospitals Group|MHG]]|[[Malton Emergency Medical Service|MEMS]]</sup> 07:09, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#::::::Yes it is. This suggestion doesn't need to exist. It's a waste. The game isn't broken and adding anymore survivor based updates will throw this game into Survivor Apocalypse + 1 or 2 zombies. --[[User:Saromu|Sonny Corleone]] <sup>[[ The Ridleybank Resistance Front|RRF]] [[Council of Leaders|CoL]] [[DORIS]] [[Caiger Resistance Front|CRF]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91a8pHj7V9k pr0n]</sup> 07:13, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#:::::::Are you listening to yourself? Your saying that consumers not spawning with crowbars will break the game off in Nixbank and Roywood. You might as well start saying that the ''zoo'' is breaking the game. I'm done talking to you. Your obviously voting spam for the sake of voting spam.--[[User:Labine50|Labine50]] <sup>[[Malton Hospitals Group|MHG]]|[[Malton Emergency Medical Service|MEMS]]</sup> 07:19, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#::::::::I'm not saying this will break the game. I'm saying it's worthless. I'm also saying that because everyone is making pro-survivor suggestions that the game will be even more broken. --[[User:Saromu|Sonny Corleone]] <sup>[[ The Ridleybank Resistance Front|RRF]] [[Council of Leaders|CoL]] [[DORIS]] [[Caiger Resistance Front|CRF]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91a8pHj7V9k pr0n]</sup> 07:22, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#::::::::::It's not needed. My '''GOD'''! Is that the best you can come up with? By your logic, that means that almost every single suggestion on that page should get a spam vote.--[[User:Labine50|Labine50]] <sup>[[Malton Hospitals Group|MHG]]|[[Malton Emergency Medical Service|MEMS]]</sup> 07:25, 30 July 2007 (BST)


'''YES!''' I got my vote moved to the talk page again. Same exact fucking lines mvoed again. I rule. --[[User:Saromu|Sonny Corleone]] <sup>[[ The Ridleybank Resistance Front|RRF]] [[Council of Leaders|CoL]] [[DORIS]] [[Caiger Resistance Front|CRF]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91a8pHj7V9k pr0n]</sup> 08:02, 30 July 2007 (BST)

Hellz yeah.--[[User:Labine50|Labine50]] <sup>[[Malton Hospitals Group|MHG]]|[[Malton Emergency Medical Service|MEMS]]</sup> 07:02, 31 July 2007 (BST)

====Reply to Sonny Vote Comments.====
:(because I hate overindenting). Anyway, Labine, in this case it not being needed can be a pretty good reason to vote against it. As [[User:Swiers|Seb]] already pointed out consumers have an effective way to gain XP without gaining a better weapon, healing is one of the most efficient methods of XP gain in the game. The fact that they start with a search boost means that they can gain a lot of experience and fast, and thanks to them being a mall based class there is always someone to heal<small>(200-2000 people, someone's gonna need hp)</small>. It would be like giving all Scientists Axes or Pistols because they suck at combat, the classes aren't suppose to gain experience through combat and neither is the consumer class.--{{User:Karek/sig}} 09:45, 30 July 2007 (BST)
::"<small>(200-2000 people, someone's gonna need hp)</small>" Unless it's Caiger. Those kids have it too easy sometimes...'''>:('''.--{{User:Suicidalangel/Sig}} 09:49, 30 July 2007 (BST)
::: Caiger too, pkers.--{{User:Karek/sig}} 09:50, 30 July 2007 (BST)
::While I tend to agree that healing is the quickest way to gain XP for newbs, I've always found malls to be pretty hard places to find people in need of healing compared to less densely populated areas. And without diagnosis you may as well not bother (unless you can get metagaming info) IMO <small>The preceding signed comment was added by [[User:Boxy|boxy]] ([[User talk:Boxy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Boxy|contribs]]) at 10:07 Monday July 2007 (BST)</small>
:::Yep, in a mall, you can waste a LOT of AP trying to heal people who are not hurt, if you do not have Diagnoses.  Better to go to a hospital, or heal in the streets.  Or even better, make your own wounds to heal... {{h|black|__<big>[[User:Swiers|'''Swiers''']]</big>__[[Image:BigEYEwitnessLOGO.png|60px]]_}} 15:21, 30 July 2007 (BST)
::::Think of the poor newbies! The only way they'll ever get a fak or two is if they stumble on a VSB hospital and happen to find one. Even then they dont know who needs healing. The newbies ALWAYS go zombie killing, assuming its the fastest way to earn XP. Not being needed is the most pointless vote ever. We might as well delete the Wiki - its not NEEDED, is it? Sonny is just voting spam because he hates survivors and anything to do with them. This suggestion is worth kevan's consideration. It is VERY worth the wiki's consideration, voting spam is just being an immature survivor hater who doesn't want any survivor suggestions to pass. If this suggestion was helping zombie newbies, sonny would be the first to vote keep.--[[User:Wooty|Wooty]] 20:14, 30 July 2007 (BST)
:::::Wooty, I hate to call you dumb...but you are. Labine and I decided to see if we could make the mods' blood boil over copypastaing our old argument on another on of his suggestions. [[Talk:Suggestions/20th-Nov-2006|Here]]. Labine and I are friends and we decided to do that for fun. --[[User:Saromu|Sonny Corleone]] <sup>[[ The Ridleybank Resistance Front|RRF]] [[Council of Leaders|CoL]] [[DORIS]] [[Caiger Resistance Front|CRF]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91a8pHj7V9k pr0n]</sup> 22:45, 30 July 2007 (BST)
::::::Yeah, thanks Sonny. Tools. You'd better cross the t's and dot the i's next time you want to flood speedydelete with crit 12 group pages, 'cause I'll no longer care about your untemplated requests, straight to recent actions with no action <small>The preceding signed comment was added by [[User:Boxy|boxy]] ([[User talk:Boxy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Boxy|contribs]]) at 02:26 31 July 2007 (BST)</small>
:::::::Have a sense of humor. It was Labine's idea by the way. He posted my old vote. I laughed and he asked if I wanted to go along with doing it all over again to get a reaction. So we did it. It was funny. --[[User:Saromu|Sonny Corleone]] <sup>[[ The Ridleybank Resistance Front|RRF]] [[Council of Leaders|CoL]] [[DORIS]] [[Caiger Resistance Front|CRF]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91a8pHj7V9k pr0n]</sup> 03:16, 31 July 2007 (BST)
::::::::Don't worry, I'll do my laughing when you finally start putting speedydelete templates on your nominations >:) <small>The preceding signed comment was added by [[User:Boxy|boxy]] ([[User talk:Boxy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Boxy|contribs]]) at 03:56 31 July 2007 (BST)</small>
:::::::::GTFO conformity. --[[User:Saromu|Sonny Corleone]] <sup>[[ The Ridleybank Resistance Front|RRF]] [[Council of Leaders|CoL]] [[DORIS]] [[Caiger Resistance Front|CRF]] [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91a8pHj7V9k pr0n]</sup> 04:11, 31 July 2007 (BST)
:::::Wooty, if all the newbs go zombie hunting straight away, their being stupid. VSB hospitals arn't that hard to find, nor are injured survivors (look for other newbies caught outside without free running or inside non-heavily barricaded building) unless you stick to the safe, overbarricaded suburbs <small>The preceding signed comment was added by [[User:Boxy|boxy]] ([[User talk:Boxy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Boxy|contribs]]) at 02:31 31 July 2007 (BST)</small>
::::::And that is why we need more 'cade griefers! Who do you think are the ones that help newbs without free running the most? That trenchie with the shotgun? Or maybe the police guy that sits and 'cades to EHB all day? No, it'd be the silly guy that says funny things and then brings the 'cades down to loosely, thats who!''' :D'''.--{{User:Suicidalangel/Sig}} 04:23, 31 July 2007 (BST)
:::I never went zombie punching. My first char was a scientist and I DNA extractored for my first 5 levels. It was pretty damn fast.--{{User:Karek/sig}} 04:42, 31 July 2007 (BST)
::::::: Lol, I had the window with the airport argument and the crowbar one up at the same time, got confused as heck. Maybe i'm being stupid about THIS suggestion, but the argument at the airport one was retarded. Actually, I have no idea what im talking about or what's going on, there's too much text on this damn page.--[[User:Wooty|Wooty]] 05:03, 31 July 2007 (BST)

== Replies to Kamden's vote comment. ==

#'''Kill''' - Yeah, and Newbie Zombahs have it alot harder. --{{User:Axe27/Sig}} 02:32, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#:'''Re''' - Your only reason for voting kill is because another class has a harder time levelling up? That's worse than Sonny's historical "'Cades are broken" vote on my [[Talk:Suggestions/20th-Nov-2006|Airport]] suggestion.--[[User:Labine50|Labine50]] <sup>[[Malton Hospitals Group|MHG]]|[[Malton Emergency Medical Service|MEMS]]</sup> 03:21, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#::'''Re''' And your reasoning is equally dubious. Consumers have it hard? I know, that 10 damage you can deal with shotgun makes everything hard for survivors. --{{User:Axe27/Sig}} 23:55, 30 July 2007 (BST)
#:::'''Re''' And the ammo magically appears, we don't search for days to get it. This is beside the point. You are saying that because survivors have Shotguns, every pro-survivor suggestion should be shot down. Hello, Sonny v.2--[[User:Labine50|Labine50]] <sup>[[Malton Hospitals Group|MHG]]|[[Malton Emergency Medical Service|MEMS]]</sup> 07:08, 31 July 2007 (BST)
#::::Yes Labine, but this is a class with an advantage ''in searching''.--{{User:Karek/sig}} 07:58, 31 July 2007 (BST)
#:::::Like they are getting into a mall and what the hell are they going to do with ammo, anyway? Surely not use it? The hit chance for a shotgun is too low to make searching worth while, even if they could get in a mall, which isn't going to happen unless it's under siege, in which case a level 1 shouldn't even be there.--[[User:Labine50|Labine50]] <sup>[[Malton Hospitals Group|MHG]]|[[Malton Emergency Medical Service|MEMS]]</sup> 11:01, 31 July 2007 (BST)