View source for Talk:Guides:Guide to Forming Groups Part 2

Todo:

*Proofreading timeline section

--[[User:Penguinpyro|Penguinpyro]] 01:42, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

==[[Guides:Guide to Forming Groups Part 2]]==
I've submitted Part One for review. This is Part Two, which I will be working on now.--[[User:Penguinpyro|Penguinpyro]] 03:51, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

===Comments===

Added more stuff. Comments?--[[User:Penguinpyro|Penguinpyro]] 10:47, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
:[[User:Rosslessness/Safehouse_Hatred|Add a link to this in your discussion of safehouses!]] --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 11:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::I concur. Link added.--[[User:Penguinpyro|Penguinpyro]] 11:49, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Also finish the sections! --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 12:56, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Massive wall of text that really needs to be dealt with. You should make as much as possible more accessible formatting-wise. For example, the continuous text about emergency FAKs could be moved to general equipment bullet points (as [[Cobra (group)/Guide#Equipment|here]], to draw from one of my own guides), while the part about hiding holes could be reworked with more line-breaks and bolded keywords (as [[Cobra (group)/Guide#Exotic_Boltholes|here]]). --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 17:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

''As for defending TRPs, the order of priority for survivors and zombies goes roughly: NTs/Malls > Hospitals/PDs > Fire Stations > everything else.'' - Harman key buildings are Hospitals, NTs and Factories/Auto Repairs. Malls and PDs are overrated - harmanz should generally avoid engaging zombies and PKers (which is the sole use of guns and ammo, which is in turn the sole benefit in malls), and FAKs and needles offer much more bang per buck AP-wise. (This is one of the moments where I really miss the lost opportunity to link to Iscariot's outstanding [[User:Iscariot/No More Heroes|No More Heroes]] article :( - dropping the link merely for fellow ops who can read deleted stuff). Fire Stations have no use anymore once you have an axe and all the radios you need, except as spawning points. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 17:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

''You lose the scouting bonus, and with it, your 30 AP spent, if you move far away'' - Easily misunderstood wording. Moving far away makes it tough to put the scouting to good use, but doesn't inherently negate the bonus. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 17:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
:No more heroes is indeed my favourite ever article. But yeah, once its all finished, drop me a line on my talk page and I'll do a line for line review of this one. There's some stuff that I feel could be handled ''differently'' --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 17:13, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I think you need to decide on whether or not you want this to be "Here is how to ''form a'' survivor group. Here is also a good roadmap to follow during those all-so-critical beginning months." type-of-a guide, or a "Here is how to ''run a'' survivor group, and these are some survivor-tactics and survival-tips you can follow" type-of-a guide. Right now, it tries to do both a little and given the length of it right now, I think you might lose your audience. I like the concept of a  "First Month" type section, and I think that is a great way to organize this. 

One way to think about this is to take the idea of the "First Month" and expand on it. What are the things a good survivor leader needs to consider when forming a group during 1)the first day 2) the first month and 3) the first year and beyond? Tips on picking a location, recruitment, group policies, picking a group-style (mobile revivers, stationary suburb, etc) and starting both an in-game and out-of-game presence are probably more important in the beginning stages of forming a group. Tips on maintaining your presence in-and-out of game, motivating your group, dealing with burn-out / attrition and such are more important after that early formation stage, when that "initial excitement" begins to fade. 

If I were a new survivor-leader type person, I would find a concise guide that walks me through those stages and the early months of running a group would be extremely valuable. Your long "survival tips" section is going to tune a lot of readers out I bet, and I'd think in-general about moving away from the "survival tips / strategy" mindset to a more "short term/ long term goals / things to consider" type-of-approach.-[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 20:34, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::Spiderzed, I agree with you on Auto Repairs/Factories, but I'm keeping PDs, Fire Stations, and Malls as is because they attract and supply ordinary survivors, who are worth keeping around as meatshields, potential recruits and support. Also, if I can ask, what was the "no more heroes" article about? MHSstaff, noted. --[[User:Penguinpyro|Penguinpyro]] 21:26, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Iscariot was a notorious pundit on this wiki, with a nasty attitude especially towards stupid survivor play (as seen [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Guides%2FReview&diff=1592021&oldid=1591979 here] and [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Guides%2FReview&diff=1619576&oldid=1619553 there], to pick two of many examples.) Back to NMH, it was about the mongtardation of the [[S.O.S.]] page, followed by an insightful rant on what's wrong with survivors and survivor groups, a look at the only two new groups that did it right that year (The Big Prick and MCM) and how survivors would need to change in order to have any worth (along with the sister article Building Better Survivors). Having no access to NMH, your next best bet is probably looking at SOS and the two guides that Izzy ripped apart, and doing the exact opposite of what they proclaim :p --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 22:06, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::::It basically says. "Don't even bother, unless you're 100% committed to devoting your life to it, survivors are their own worst enemies, and that zombies make by far the best survivors. (Which they do.) But filled with such vehement anger that it ''occasionally'' got in the way of the points he was making. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 22:18, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
:::Daaaaaamn. I'm glad I'm not half as stupid as that Winman1 guy.--[[User:Penguinpyro|Penguinpyro]] 22:32, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::::I'd forgotten about winmin. I never did write my counterpoint. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 22:42, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::::You have to admit though, that this part here: {{quote|Iscariot|The very best thing you can do with your guide that will help survivors, yourself and the quality of this wiki is to go [[A/SD|here]], place a link to your guide followed by the words "Crit Seven" and then your signature.}} 
::::is absolutely hilarious. Cold. But hilarious. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 23:36, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
::Also, for MHS's original comment, I think Part One of this guide takes care of a lot of what you said. I'm writing this with the assumption that Part One has at least been skimmed over.--[[User:Penguinpyro|Penguinpyro]] 23:57, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Almost finished now, with the exception of the propaganda section. Any more comments? And Ross, I'll be taking you up on your offer very soon. :P--[[User:Penguinpyro|Penguinpyro]] 06:37, 10 March 2011 (UTC)