View source for UDWiki talk:Administration/Vandal Banning/Archive/2008 08

==August 2008==

===Please make your reports short and sweet...===
... and then try to stay away from A/VB. Because any added insults, drama, speculation, or just plain commentary on the ongoing vandalism/sockpuppetry only serves to increase the disruption that is the aim of persistent vandals <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[UDWiki:Image Categorisation|i]]</sup> 03:05 19 August 2008 (BST)</small>
:I like the change that has gone on recently from what A/VB used to be, a hotspot for anger and arguing etc. I am strongly hoping it stays like this for a while more. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 07:10, 19 August 2008 (BST)
::Yeah, but at the moment, the whole page is totally inaccessible! Perhaps that's only temporary. But... still... The problem with making it ''too'' inaccessible (and the way it's looking at the moment, it's seeming like rather the pain in arse to get to...) is that people will shy off from making vandal reports because it's too much effort. Which just ends up making an admin service even more the province of only a select group of people who can be arsed to go through the hoops... I'm not sure that's the best way to go about things... My two bits worth. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 01:34, 1 September 2008 (BST) Ok, well apparently it's all here? Huuuuh? It's all rather confusing... Which kind of illustrates my point, IMO.... Hmph... --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 01:36, 1 September 2008 (BST)

===[[User:Matthewfarenheit]]===
For one it's Spam; but I'm a member of Project Welcome and I don't have any problem with Airborne's case. There's a difference between wanting to make the wiki a better place for newbies, and welcoming 6 month old perma'd vandals so you can get teh moar linx0rz on an small wiki about an in-browser MMORPG.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 23:24, 24 August 2008 (BST)


===[[User:Ellaandcharlie]]===
This is very silly. I merely saw this as Mr.Yao's bad faith edit of ella's suggestion, and it would be best if both suggestions were differentiated. I do not dispute the fact no one was warned. I merely giggle at Mr.Yao's silly attempt at accusing ella of vandalism for doing a nice faithly edit, identical to his but less offensive. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 07:07, 25 August 2008 (BST)
:The suggestion headers had already been differentiated, editing Wan's original header was just tit for tat arsebanditry by E&C. She should think herself lucky that Wan decided that it wasn't worth pursuing <small>-- [[User:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">boxy</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Boxy|<span style="color: Red">talk</span>]] • [[UDWiki:Image Categorisation|i]]</sup> 10:50 25 August 2008 (BST)</small>

===[[User:Nallan]]===
Nick didn't threaten you, it was sarcasm. You know that, and anyone can see that you didn't feel threatened by it. Don't use the Vandalism space for vendettas. Also, deleting posts off of your talk page to make it look less sarcastic is considered poor form. You know my post was intended to show that I (the subject of Nicks "threat") was treating it as sarcasm and that it was not serious at all, so why delete it? This type of stuff, disallowing certain comments to be posted, influences discussions like this, and is a twisting of words that some consider very poor form. It has been the subject of many accepted vandalism cases (the Finis header changing comes to mind). So, don't let others tell you to put it here (or don't use others as a scapegoat for putting something that you know had no meaning behind it). To the mods, really, honestly, banning Nick here sets a dangerous precedent, as you now have to ban every user who uses sarcasm that refers to doing anything unsavoury towards anyone. Suck my dick, Jed. There you go, I just used vulgarity.--{{User:Sexylegsread/sig}} 09:06, 23 August 2008 (BST)
:You are an idiot and trying to blur a line whos clarity to anyone with even half a brain can tell matches that of a perfect vacuum. Since you have trouble comprehending this, i shall put it in terms you might understand. '''Never. Make. IRL. Threats. Against. Other. Users. Not. Even. In. Jest.''' Why? its quite simple. First, and most important, is that making them is a criminal offense in many countries. Secondly, in matters pertaining to the security and safety of members must always be taken seriously. We simply cannot risk assuming anything else. Anyone can claim its a joke after the fact, and then go on to follow through. Statements along the lines of ''"I wish someone would go bash Michael Reads head in with a baseball bat"'' are fine as they do not indicate any possibility of following through with the action. On the other hand, saying ''"You better keep looking over you're shoulder grim, because one day im gonna kill you"'' (Taken verbatim from a death threat i myself have recieved) is clearly intending malicious acts, even if they arent followed through. Being generally abusive is distinct from directly threatening someone with personal harm. In the example this case is based on, there is nothing to indicate jest, and even if there was, it would have to be outright comical (ie: ''"One day im gonna track you down and slap you with a kipper"'') before we even consider ignoring it. In any case, the distinction between actual threats and general abuse is extremely clear to anyone who is interested in seeing the truth, and that wont change no matter how hard you try to obfuscate it. --[[User:Grim_s|The Grimch]] <sup>[[Project UnWelcome|U!]] [[Project Evil|E!]]</sup> 12:54, 23 August 2008 (BST)
::"He's got heaps big pecs....and shit...". That's all the fucking proof you need. Your bias and personal agenda in ''any'' case to do with us is fucking ridiculous, and a discredit to this wiki, this game, and every single user who voted for you. "Your funeral" is no fucking death threat. It is the most softest of terms used by twelve year olds in schoolyards around the world. You are a fucking disgrace. Grow the fuck up, and stop looking for any opportunity to come along and play your big boy games. Nick did not threaten him with death, as he said that '''I''' would be the one doing the killing. I have no plan to kill this user, although he is a very, very daft individual. So there you go, Nick said I was gonna bash him, and I'm not, and wouldn't. End of case. You on the other hand, I wish someone would go and bash your head in with a baseball bat. They would need a pretty big one too.--{{User:Sexylegsread/sig}} 15:03, 23 August 2008 (BST)

You have ''got'' to be fucking kidding me. When i saw this case i was like "death threat...hmm yeah probably should ban him, perhaps that is too far." Then i saw what was said and it's fucking ridiculous. "Your funeral" and "nice knowing you" are [[Colloquialisms]] that have nothing to do with death. i say your funeral to my friends all the time, doesn't mean i'm even vaguely alluding to their deaths. Honestly it's the sort of line you'd say without even considering what it actually means. Even if you disagree with all that if you take it in context of the conversation "he's got heaps big pecs... and shit..." you would see that it's a joke. Maybe in some countries none of those are used colloquialisms but i can assure you where Nick comes from, they are. And Grim for that matter. Honestly Grim how can you possibly think that's a death threat? And if ''anyone'' says the words grudge or clique i'll come over there and stab you in the heart.--{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 14:20, 23 August 2008 (BST)
:And you know what the fucking sad thing is? Every Sysop that knew it was vandalism shut their mouths when Grim weighed in, because they knew that their own status is more important than that of the users they were nominated to protect, ban and guide. I wish someone would bash all their heads in with a baseball bat, scared fucks.--{{User:Sexylegsread/sig}} 15:07, 23 August 2008 (BST)

::Here is the complete conversation (before Wan trolled it), as Techercizer didn't link it properly. 

{{pre|'''Dude'''

My friend wants to fight you irl, just a heads up. You should contact him - he's got heaps big pecs... and shit...--Nick? LOL!! 03:55, 22 August 2008 (BST)

:Good for him? You don't even need to ask me if I give a crap, cuz I don't. Techercizer (Food) (TSoE) 03:59, 22 August 2008 (BST)

::Ok. I won't :) You should really speak to him - he's been to prison. He had like 6 bitches.--Nick? LOL!! 04:12, 22 August 2008 (BST)

:::Or, I could completely ignore his trolling ass and not give a crap about who he is or what he does. As a matter of fact, I'll do just that. Techercizer (Food) (TSoE) 04:14, 22 August 2008 (BST)

::::Your funeral - nice knowing you.--Nick? LOL!! 04:27, 22 August 2008 (BST)}} 


If you cannot see the sarcasm in that, then you need to seriously lay off the insults of my intellect, go outside, and learn some social skills so that you can fucking understand what a joke is.--{{User:Sexylegsread/sig}} 15:17, 23 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User: Secruss]]===
I'm pretty sure that saying (not modifying, impersonating, or deleting) something on someone's talk page is almost never vandalism. Possibly Arbys case maybe, but almost never vandalism.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 00:10, 19 August 2008 (BST)
::There are at least 3 precidents for this to be labeled '''Vandalism'''.  In fact the last 3 times this was attempted by a pro survivor group there was a warning given out and the posts were reverted.  The same should be done here.--[[User:Kristi of the Dead|Kristi of the Dead]] 03:01, 19 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User:Ninja13]]===
If he does it again soon after being soft warned, would it be considered vandalism? I believe that's what Nubis was saying, and it does seem like it'd kind of cross the boundary of good faith/bad faith there.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 15:54, 18 August 2008 (BST)
:That's what I was trying to say exactly. If I had noticed his comment before it was posted here I would have just posted on his talk page instead of bringing it here since (I hope that) a little note on his talk page would stop him from doing it again. And I am not a hive mind with Nubis, err, I mean, Wan .. dammit which account am I logged into ? --{{User:Nubis/sig}} 10:08, 19 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User:Sir WV]]===
An obvious attempt at vandalism '''through''' the A/VB system. Blasto doesn't seem to be one of our smarter vandals...
:Ahhh wot?  This one's my valid account guys.  No touchy touchy ok. --[[User:Sir WV|Sir WV]] 19:18, 26 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User:Blasto]]===
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=1&diff=prev&oldid=1248631 gave][http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=S/S&diff=prev&oldid=1248643 us][http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Stupy_Philosophe_Knights&diff=prev&oldid=1248640 so][http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UPot&diff=prev&oldid=1248654 many][http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Sirwv&diff=prev&oldid=1248658 wonderful][http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Le_penseur&diff=prev&oldid=1248660 pages], who needs links? I'm not seeing 3 constructive edits, so it looks like someone could be up for a insta-spam-perma{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 22:11, 15 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User:Ioncannon]]===
:'''Perma'''banned by the way. I beginning to think that this is not Ioncannon on a revenge streak. -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 10:16, 12 August 2008 (BST)
::Then you might want to change your vote below.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 22:32, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:::This all fair enough... However, could you please explain, at least somewhat, why you have arrived at this conclusion? I think this is a fair question to ask. And I think you can answer it without divulging too many sordid and/or personal details. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 22:51, 12 August 2008 (BST)
::::Ion emailed me earlier on today.
:::::''Cheese, I have already tried to PM some of the other sysops but they have disabled it in their options. FUCGRIM, IONCANNON12, AND VANDAL ALT DUH ARE NOT ME!!! I have had my group cbox vandalized and I can provide screenshots of the ip maybe you can check them up with those two.''
::::::'''(IP Addresses withheld for security reasons)'''
:::::''Lemonhead and the DA have split; I vowed to help the DA against and he chose to make a fake sn with his friend probably and do that whole conversation. If fucgrim WAS me, would I be stupid enough to tell him that knowing that lemon has logs of everything...Vandal alt duh was most likely some from the Cult of the Fallen Gay or Lemon's goons trying to pin this on me. I'll take the month ban, for total bullshit may I say (I don't deserve a month for "trolling", ALL I DID WAS PUT A SUGGESTION IN THE WRONG PLACE ACCIDENTALLY FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!!), but not a permaban for something I have no connection to... I also think it might be the Cult of The Fallen God, as we have had disputes and those pussies went to the RG and started vandalizing our pages. Now I think they might've taken it a step farther.''
::::If someone was going for a revenge streak, they probably wouldn't use their own name. They'd use something insulting. Fucgrim might be Ioncannon, but I don't think the other supposed alts are. I will investigate the claims above however and see if I can find some definite proof either way. -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 23:14, 12 August 2008 (BST)
::::::At first I just didnt really care about this, just wanted to make fun of Ion. But now that I see he is lying to everyone, and I wont have my name being slandered like this. Those screenshots are accurate, and I'm sure that there are many people who will vouch when I say that that is his AIM account.{{User:Lemonhead7t7/Sig}} 00:04, 13 August 2008 (BST)

::::::No one "vandalised" your fucking chatbox, you jerkoff. A few of us spammed it. Myself and Techercizer had some fun... on an '''open, public and publicly advertised''' chatbox. That's not "vandalism". There was nothing threatening or illegal, not even SWEAR WORDS... just some sarcastic (and pretty fucking funny, in a juvenile kinda way, if i may say so myself) trolling. (In fact, click on the forum link for ioncannon's group, the [[173rd_Airborne_Brigade_Combat_Team]], scroll to the bottom, and have some LOLz on his ''open, public and publicly advertised'' chatbox, if it pleases you.) Meanwhile, ioncannon, you're a fucking ''serial troll'' and a confirmed vandal... And now you're whinging and acting like a suckass moron... And posting ''personal information'' to the wiki, whining to the sysops, asking for ''private user information'' and even threatening to contact my ISP over this petty, minor, utterly insignificant fucking incident. And trying to incriminate that myself, Techer and Lemonhead are "vandals" or "hackers" or something??? All this coming from a ''confirmed vandal'' and serial troll. Get a fucking grip, already. And I don't give a fuck if someone IS trying to frame you with these vandal accounts... Doesn't change the facts. ''Get a fucking grip, already,'' you assclown. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 01:45, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::I for one, welcome our new ''serial troll'' overlord--{{User:WOOT/sig}} 02:31, 13 August 2008 (BST)

ioncannon, you are a proven, repeat-offender vandal. One doesn't get to the point of a one month ban, with the possibility of a perma, just for, like, hangin' around and being chill. Nope. It takes ''effort''... You have a long and storied history of both vandalism and trolling. You got what you had coming. Capice, n00b? <br> 
'''<33333333''' --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 04:51, 13 August 2008 (BST)
: I for one just want to say that Ion's little claim that it is the Cult of the Fallen God doing this are completely false. We have had nothing to do with this. I personally think that Ion is an asshole and now he's trying to change it around and say everyone is ganging up on him. Give me break. ~[[User:Detective Ice|Detective Ice]] 00:04, 13 August 2008 (EST)
::Is it false? First you vandalize the wiki, then the cbox, then you do this. It is either or you lemon, no doubt. And I ''assure'' you, all of you will receive computer failure warnings. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 05:41, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::What happened to you leaving? Stop whining about the fact that you pushed your vandal luck and finally got punished, and stop bitching about how "there's a conspiracy against you", anyone with half a brain can see your groundless accusations for what they really are, so how about making good on those oaths and leaving this community alone?{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 05:27, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::That was not Ion so stfu. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 05:41, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::I'm gonna recieve a computer failure warning? Well until I see the message, you're full of hot air and empty threats. Go on, do it! what's the matter? Also, I'd really like you to point to any single instance I've vandalized the wiki. No? huh, maybe that's because I've never had a single A/VB case!{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 05:57, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::Alright... If I am interpreting this -- ''"And I assure you, all of you will receive computer failure warnings. TotalMacho 05:41, 13 August 2008 (BST)"'' -- correctly... Time to call the ISP... and perhaps the cops. For real. Threats to hack users' computers ought not to be taken lightly. Not at fucking ALL. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 06:03, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::I say let him try, it's time to put up or shut up, either he breaks through my state-of-the-art computer security barriers or he goes home with his tail between his legs like the Liar he is.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 06:08, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::Okay, wan, call whoever you want. Or understand purpose bs scares when you see em. But you go do whatever you want...*sigh.* [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 06:15, 13 August 2008 (BST) 
:::::::::It looks to me like your scare tactic backfired.[[User:Illusionist|Illusionist]] 06:17, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::::What's wrong? No more threats of hacking and terror!? I'm still here Macho, so it looks like you're full of hot air.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 06:18, 13 August 2008 (BST) me hate edit conflicts!
:::::::::::W.e, techie, IDC about you; you can be an ass, but it's all good in the end I suppose. Yao is going to have to learn his lesson, either from me or someone else. He can do whatever the hell he wants, QQ, and kiss my ass, but...meh, I keep promises I make in some way or another. That way is rarely apparent, however; and the reward is so much greater in the end. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 06:22, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::::::Ion, please. You're simply digging yourself a bigger hole. Just leave now and stop stirring up negativity here and maybe you'll be welcomed back at the end of the month. You are no longer fooling anyone. Just, take my advice for once. [[User:Illusionist|Illusionist]] 06:25, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::::Just SHUT UP!!! I AM NOT ION AND AM NOT FOOLING ANYONE!! You know what, fuck you izumi; think what you want, zergmouth. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 06:30, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::::Are you '''sure''' This isn't Ion's Meatpuppet?? Cuz it seems like he is, at least to me...{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 06:28, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::::::::I don't know what a "meatpuppet" is. All I can be sure of is that nearly all of Macho's contribs are to vandal banning in defense of Ion and his actions/reactions indicate that he and Ion are one and the same. [[User:Illusionist|Illusionist]] 06:32, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::::::Is that all, Izumi? [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 06:34, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::::::::::We shall see, Ion. [[User:Illusionist|Illusionist]] 06:35, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::::::::I am so thrilled that you accept your real name. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 06:36, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::They always say that the best defense is a good offense; Attempting to turn this on me will not help you here Ion. [[User:Illusionist|Illusionist]] 06:38, 13 August 2008 (BST)
Just so the community has some idea of the person they're dealing with -- for those who might not... and for those who do, a friendly reminder -- this is [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Ioncannon11&oldid=1030731 just one example of ioncannon's many vandalism warnings] (scroll to the bottom). Now... does anyone think it might be time to contact ''ioncannon's'' ISP/Proxies? --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 05:40, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:There are systems in place on this wiki for a reason and they are here for just that. So that ISP's are ''not'' contacted unless criminal action is committed beyond the scope of enforcement of this wiki. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 05:48, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::You've just taken the bait, my unfortunate friend. Ion's true sockpuppet is revealed. [[User:Illusionist|Illusionist]] 05:52, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::What bait? I was defending my friend and leader. I am not a fucking sockpuppet...but believe what you want. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 05:54, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::Looking at your contribs, I'd say otherwise. [[User:Illusionist|Illusionist]] 05:55, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::I looked at your user page, ''Izumi'', so you're one to talk. I came here to do a favor for a friend who I've known for six years and has done great things for me. I don't care if you don't like him; he's my friend. So suck my dick, I'm not a puppet. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 05:59, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::I have nothing against your friend. I'm merely sick and tired of the drama surrounding this case, every source of which has a common denominator. You. Do not mistake me for a biased party. I have been silently observing the facts for some time now and I have a guess, albeit a highly educated one. [[User:Illusionist|Illusionist]] 06:02, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::Say what? Bait? I thought he was a Meatpuppet{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 05:54, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::*in response to Macho's post* Actually, by your own admission, you '''are''' a puppet, just a meatpuppet.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 06:02, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::You know, back in my day, SysOps would bitch about people spamming up the A/VB pages. I also had to walk uphill both ways to the wiki. --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 06:01, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::Well technically almost everyone here is involved in one way or another{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 06:02, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::Be that as it may, the discussion page is where this should all be. Not that I mind, really. I just felt like wading in the hate for a little while. It's good for your bones. --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 06:05, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::You are, of course, right. Now if only I could have done it without 5 edit conflicts.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 06:10, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::::One of those was me, sorry, but you missed one of my newer comments in the move.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 06:12, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::Then fix it boy! And get off my lawn. Relying on other people to do their own work. Pffft... --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 06:14, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::::::I did, that's what the Edit Conflict was, me fixing it.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 06:28, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::::So you think you're smart, eh? With your "fixing" and your "conflicts". Well you weren't around for wikigate. And neither was I. Which leads me to believe you're my grandfather. Also, is that really Izumi? That means there's still a chance for the DITPS soap opera. Huzzah! --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 06:35, 13 August 2008 (BST)

Oh, also I got this email a couple of days ago: {{Quote|al=left|Ioncannon11|General, I have already tried to PM some of the other sysops but they have disabled it in their options.<br />

FUCGRIM, IONCANNON12, AND VANDAL ALT DUH ARE NOT ME!!! I have had my group cbox vandalized and I can provide screenshots of the ip maybe you can check them up with those two.<br />

<center>'''IP Addresses Removed'''</center><br />

Lemonhead and the DA have split; I vowed to help the DA against and he chose to make a fake sn with his friend probably and do that whole conversation. If fucgrim WAS me, would I be stupid enough to tell him that knowing that lemon has logs of everything...Vandal alt duh was most likely some from the Cult of the Fallen Gay or Lemon's goons trying to pin this on me. I'll take the month ban, for total bullshit may I say (I don't deserve a month for "trolling", ALL I DID WAS PUT A SUGGESTION IN THE WRONG PLACE ACCIDENTALLY FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!!), but not a permaban for something I have no connection to...<br />

I also think it might be the Cult of The Fallen God, as we have had disputes and those pussies went to the RG and started vandalizing our pages. Now I think they might've taken it a step farther.}}
I'm not sure what to make of it either way, the cbox isn't our concern as it isn't even on the wiki (BTW, those IPs do match certain people on the wiki who are commenting on this case, including one which is an open proxy leading to TotalMacho). I am fairly certain that fucgrim '''was''' him but I can't be absolutely certain that the other accounts are also him. However, even discounting his alts when voting and decide purely on his past behaviour, I believe a permaban is justified.--{{User:The General/sig}} 16:35, 14 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User:TotalMacho]]===
Well apparently precedent says that kind of stuff can be removed just fine, sorry about that. Frankly I'm glad you did it, I wasn't sure if it was legal.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 01:35, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:K, it's all good. Ion sez hai :) [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 01:38, 12 August 2008 (BST)


===[[User:Vandal_Alt_DUH]]===
Looks like he's just signed his own Perma, if indeed that is him.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 00:53, 12 August 2008 (BST)
::even though it takes them about 2 mouse clicks to undo any changes you make?{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 01:03, 12 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User:Zephyer]]===
Looks like he's reverting Ioncannon's (unreported) Vandalism and fixing links...{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 00:41, 11 August 2008 (BST)
:Ion said you're the biggest noob and dumbass on the wiki; this just confirmed his suspicions. It is NOT vandalism, as you are too stupid or nooby to look at rules that allow people to post whatever they want on their group pages even if it is derogatory, such as [[The Imperium Must Die]]. Dumb shit... [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 04:50, 11 August 2008 (BST)
::Well according to the Sysops, I'm right, and I don't much appreciate your unwarranted hostility, not to mention the fact that judging by your contributions and own admissions you are obviously a puppet of some kind, be it meat or sock.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 05:33, 11 August 2008 (BST)
:::I wouldnt be surprised if it was ioncannon. pretty sure it's a sockpuppet. and it's complaining about reversing an edit made by ioncannon, maybe the sysops should run an IP check.--{{User:Blood Panther/Sig}} 06:18, 11 August 2008 (BST)
::::I think they should, but it's just as likely he's a Meatpuppet.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 06:20, 11 August 2008 (BST)

Ok... please clear this up for me... But aren't Ion and his puppet correct? They can call people whatever they want on their own group page... For example, The Butthole Surfers mock FARK repeatly on their page, I believe. And Zephyr may not like it, but I don't think there's anything he can do about it except be the bigger man and ignore it. And... reverting it [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=173%2Fblacklist&diff=1245304&oldid=1244856 again], is that not vandalism, i.e. ''editing the page of a group he is not a member of.'' --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 17:06, 11 August 2008 (BST)
:Or you could argue he's removing the contribution of a banned/persistant vandal, who's circumventing his ban. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 17:12, 11 August 2008 (BST)
::TotalMacho has not been proven to be a sockpuppet account, has it? Until such time as the various editors have been demonstrated to be sockpuppets, then IMNSHO the edits should stand... And people who are NOT MEMBERS of the 173rd wankfest are not allowed to edit the page, and doing so is vandalism. Particularly when the edits are ''repeated''... as my link above shows they were. Demz teh roolz. Follow them. No special exceptions just because ioncannon is a wanking, trolling piece of shit... Nail him the old fashioned way, by the book, Danno... Or, take a stand that serial trolling = vandalism... But you can't have it both ways... 'Sides, this isn't serial trolling, anyway, not yet. The case is straighforward: ''the group can say whatever they like outside the NPOV blurb... And non-group members can't edit the pages.'' Now deal. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 20:58, 11 August 2008 (BST)
:::Nicely done, the Hawaii 5-0 reference isnt really target, but i enjoyed it. --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 21:04, 11 August 2008 (BST)
::::It's called "poetic licence", Rocky.  --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 21:09, 11 August 2008 (BST)
:::Well for all we know his edits could be in good faith, it looks like he was trying to fix the links after a known vandal changed words to their insulting counterparts. Maybe he didn't know Ioncannon was involved with the group?{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 21:03, 11 August 2008 (BST)(STOP FING EDIT CONFLICTING ME YAO!!!=P)
::::You fucking noob, our groups ARE AT WAR!!! IONCANNON11 WAS BLACKLISTED BY THEM!!!!! [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 21:19, 11 August 2008 (BST)
:::::I don't care, nor do I feel like stooping to the level of explaining myself to a puppet. If you have a problem with me then I recommend you either discuss it with me in a civil manner or go talk to a therapist about it.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 21:23, 11 August 2008 (BST)
::::::No one gives a fuck what lame-ass trenchcoater group is "at war" with whatever other lame-ass trenchcoater group. The bottom line is teh roolz. Which are VERY clear. Now suck it up, everyone, and ''deal''... like the semi-adults you should be pretending to be. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 21:33, 11 August 2008 (BST)
::::::I take it back. Well, part of it... The Cult of the Fallen God are actually kind of amusing. Perhaps a bit of a "trenchcoater" death cult ;) but amusing nonetheless. Good RP, guys, keep it up! --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 21:56, 11 August 2008 (BST)
I'm beginning to regret giving this guy the benefit of the doubt. And it's only been a couple of minutes. -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 21:26, 11 August 2008 (BST)
:Why? The cult has vandalized our cbox and pages. I'd like you to check up these ip's, well Ion does, because they were the ones vandalizing the cbox:

<sub>Deleted --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 02:25, 12 August 2008 (BST)</sub>

If you could tell us who they were, it would be nice. The ISP's and/or proxies have already been contacted. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 01:13, 12 August 2008 (BST)
::yeah, that wasn't the cult, one of those posts was me. Ioncannon was acting like an ass towards me and I thought it'd be funny.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 01:24, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:::All four of them? K, I'm talkin to Ion on AIM; he says he'll tell the ISP's to ignore it. Unless you ''want'' a cease-and-desist letter. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 01:27, 12 August 2008 (BST)
::::You can send me a cease and desist letter if it makes you feel better. I messed with him once to get him back, it's not like I plan to constantly hound you guys for all eternity.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 01:31, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:::::I won't send it to you; you'll get it straight from your ISP. Ion says he'll let it go, but it's not a very nice thing to do. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 01:34, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:::One of those IP's matches Lemonhead's from the DA forums. --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 01:33, 12 August 2008 (BST)
::::Thanks, Lemon will be hearing from his ISP ASAP. [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 01:34, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:::::Maybe Lemon just uses the same proxy?{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 01:37, 12 August 2008 (BST)
::::::Matches his sign-up IP (which was over a year ago) and the one he was using just a few hours ago. It's a legit IP address. Like I said, lemon doesn't like Ion. I wouldn't be surprised if a few (if not all) of these sockpuppets were him. --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 01:39, 12 August 2008 (BST)
::::::Ah, the pot calling the kettle black here... A serial vandal and troll complaining about ZMOG spamming!!!! Well... One of those people was me, I'll fess up. And... Neither I nor anyone else I noticed did ANYTHING illegal or malicious or threatening as has been implied. There was no hacking, no "vandalism", no threats, not even swearing or foul language -- nothing of the sort. What there ''was'' was mocking spam on an '''open, public and publically advertised''' chatbox. That is all. And it offered a couple of good LOLz, too. Meanwhile, isn't this all ironic coming from a self-admitted serial vandal and sockpuppeteer? And... the posting of information like IPs etc. to this wiki is, I believe, very much against the rules... Now... none of this has ANYTHING to do with this wiki, and I'm laughing at yous expecting the sysops to cooperate with a known internet vandal in releasing private information when no crimes or even misdemeanors have been committed. Meanwhile... This should be deleted ASAP. Personal information, mine, Techer's, Lemon's, has no place circulating on this wiki. Capiche? --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 01:42, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::I think you'll find that there are no rules against users releasing information such as IP addresses. There is however a rule which ristricts what IP information '''sysops''' are able to reveal through the use of check-user. It is important to note that even if it is removed from the page the page history will still remain, and I doubt that the sysops will bother deleting the relevant history pages. See [[UDWiki:Privacy_policy|Privacy Policy]] for more information about the rules regarding IP addresses. - [[User:Jedaz|Jedaz]] '''- [[Signature Race|<span style="font-size:85%; color: #639">02:09/12/08/2008</span>]]'''
::::::::[[UDWiki:Administration/Deletions/Scheduling/Archive#Personal_information|I don't give a damn if you're a sysop]], don't reveal personal information, that includes IPs. Keep it to yourself or EMAIL us, like Ioncannon did. I'm significantly more annoyed with this because no other sysops involved in the case have bothered dealing with this(I've been ''extremely'' busy elsewhere).--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 02:23, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::Do not repost that information. It has been provided to us via other means and any Sysops that don't have it but are interested in getting it can ask one of those that do or check the deleted histories. If it ever happens again though and I have to go through that again, I don't care if it is or is not misconduct someone ''will'' get banned.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 02:57, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::I wasn't aware of that vote. Thanks for pointing it out. - [[User:Jedaz|Jedaz]] '''- [[Signature Race|<span style="font-size:85%; color: #639">03:22/12/08/2008</span>]]'''
::::::::::I love how just because I post a few screenshots of AIM conversations that Ion sent me, just to help out, that I get blamed for it. I got linked to the 173rd or whatever forum and I made two posts making fun of Ion, because I was getting annoyed about him constantly sending me messages telling me how much he liked to buttfuck, and I'm not even exagerrating, those were his words. Kikashie next time you accuse me of something you better have some proof.{{User:Lemonhead7t7/Sig}} 21:43, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::Heh, you don't really need proof when the person <i>admits it</i>. :D --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 22:26, 12 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User:Fucgrim]]===
Should Ioncannon get a further ban for sockpuppet ban evasion? --[[User:Bob_Fortune|Sir Bob Fortune]] <sup>[[Red Rum|RR]]</sup> 23:00, 7 August 2008 (BST)
:According to the [[UDWiki:Administration/Guidelines#Cycle_of_Warnings_and_Bannings|guidelines]], in conjunction with [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy_Discussion/Reduce_Vandal_Escalations|additional policy]], if Fucgrim is proven to be Ioncannon11, then yes, he's due an additional 1-month ban on top of his current 1-month ban, plus he's open to a permaban vote, as detailed in the linked policy. --<span style="font-size:90%">[[User:Funt Solo|Funt Solo]]</span> <sup style="font-size:70%">[[Mod_Conspiracy|QT]]</sup> [[Image:Scotland flag.JPG|18px]] 23:58, 7 August 2008 (BST)
::I think it's obvious. He pretty much admits it, referring to Ioncannon's actions as his own, creating the account immediately after his ban, and with a name that shows hostility to one who ruled on his case. I'm not sure it could be more obvious.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 00:04, 8 August 2008 (BST)
:::It could just as easily be someone trying to make it look that way.  As I understand it, proof can only come from identical IP addresses for the two accounts, which can only be checked by sysops. From me, then, it's over and out. --<span style="font-size:90%">[[User:Funt Solo|Funt Solo]]</span> <sup style="font-size:70%">[[Mod_Conspiracy|QT]]</sup> [[Image:Scotland flag.JPG|18px]] 00:18, 8 August 2008 (BST)
::::No, that's a good point. I didn't think about someone trying to frame him. Well Sysops? Are the IPs compatible?{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 00:43, 8 August 2008 (BST)
:::::I have no idea, haven't checked. But Cheese probably did. I would probably say the month would do, if he doesn't make any more alts. Would probably only worsen the issue... think izumi. But meh, mudkip children are throwing stones at my house and they need a good beating. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 04:28, 8 August 2008 (BST)

IP check comes back to an open proxy. It certainly does look like him though. --[[User:Grim_s|The Grimch]] <sup>[[Project UnWelcome|U!]] [[Project Evil|E!]]</sup> 10:39, 8 August 2008 (BST)
:Yup. So what do you reckon? -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 10:52, 8 August 2008 (BST)
::Block the open proxy (can that be done?) but you can't really block him w/o IP proof. Anyway blocking him wouldn't do anything (apart from totally undermine A/VB and blocking etc) as he could continue to use proxies. He'll get bored soon enough...--{{User:J3D/ciggy}} 11:55, 8 August 2008 (BST)
:::[http://i38.tinypic.com/v8if52.jpg Proof that he made another wiki account] [http://i37.tinypic.com/30usdp5.jpg Proof he zergs? (or is retarded) and proof that he likes it up the ass] {{User:Lemonhead7t7/Sig}} 01:10, 9 August 2008 (BST)
::::It at least looks like him, but does that constitute as proof? only the sysops can reveal the answer...{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 01:17, 9 August 2008 (BST)
:::::That's true, I could have fabricated the whole thing, but why would I do that! Just letting you all know it IS him. I can testify!{{User:Lemonhead7t7/Sig}} 01:28, 9 August 2008 (BST)
::::::The wiki has a banned IP list, and as far as I know sysops put known proxies on it. In any event, even if the screenshots ARE real, which I am a bit skeptical of, they're not admissible evidence. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 01:42, 9 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::Haha I understand, just letting people know it is, and to keep looking for the evidence. {{User:Lemonhead7t7/Sig}} 01:56, 9 August 2008 (BST)

::::''Moved to talk from vote'' --[[User:Grim_s|The Grimch]] <sup>[[Project UnWelcome|U!]] [[Project Evil|E!]]</sup> 03:52, 10 August 2008 (BST)
:::::I'm in favor of the permaban, but just to let you know, those screenshots could easily be faked, so they probably can't be taken as evidence. --[[User:JaredV|Jared]]<sup>[[User_talk:JaredV|Talk]] [[Project Welcome|W!]] [[Project Wiki Patrol|P!]]</sup> 02:19, 10 August 2008 (BST)
::::::Screenshots can be faked, true, but to do that would be very difficult, and i actually trust the source not to do something that stupid. Besides, i was already certain it was ioncannon. The new account appeared minutes after we blocked his main. --[[User:Grim_s|The Grimch]] <sup>[[Project UnWelcome|U!]] [[Project Evil|E!]]</sup> 03:52, 10 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::Just a thought. Lemon doesn't exactly have the best relationship with Ion. Who's to say he didn't make the fake account to pin it on him? Just sayin'. Wouldn't using that as proof make a rather... bad precedent? --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 05:17, 10 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::I honestly doubt that screenshot is the piece of evidence tipping the scales here, but I trust Lemon, enough to doubt he'd frame Ion. No, judging from the way he's been acting, anyone who wanted him out of the picture only had to wait around. Ion has a habit of digging his own grave, and I doubt someone as respectable as Lemonhead would stoop to the level of trickery, especially when it is so unnecessary. Regardless I agree, if it comes down to it then the screenshot should not be the deciding evidence. Let's set a honorable precedent with this trial.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 05:25, 10 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::Heh heh, I wouldn't really classify Lemon as "respectable" what with some reacent stuff that has come to light. But that's off topic. Regardless, if he made one, he only made one. You'd think there would have been others. --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 05:27, 10 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::::How do we know Ion's not just orchestrating this whole "people are impersonating him" thing to get out of his perma?{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 02:14, 12 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::You know, that's a good point. I'm just here because I don't like Lemon. But really, with three people admitting they were spamming that chatbox or whatever, the odds are pointing towards someone trying to "frame" him. But in the end, does any of that matter? There's a perma vote going on already, right? --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 02:21, 12 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::::::What is your stake in this, Kikashe? Why are you shooting off your mouth about something you aren't involved in, and about which you know NOTHING? Intead of just '''implying''' that either me, Techercizer or Lemonhead are creating sockpuppets, why not be a MAN and actually ACCUSE us of it? Oh... because you have no case, because such accusations would be bullshit. And you know it. 
::::::::::::Let me make this perfectly clear for you, since you don't seem to be getting it: ''there is NO RELATION between harmless spamming of a chatbox -- which was juvenile and annoying, yes.... but also FUNNY AS FUCK -- and people trying to "frame" ioncannon with sockpuppets. Now what part of that don't you understand?
::::::::::::Anyone who knows anything about me knows a couple of things. 1) I can be a annoying prick and 2) That malicious hacking and "framing" someone with sockpuppets is about the LAST thing I could be arsed to do, absolutely NOT IN CHARACTER. And, the sysops also know the difference between trolling an ''open, public and publicly advertised'' internet site (located [http://1airbourne.invisionplus.net/ here]), and malicious hacking/vandalism/sockputting... And they obviously also know the FACTS, i.e. that the IPs of my myself, Techercizer and Lemonhead are not the same as whoever is creating the sockpuppets. So why don't you just shut the fuck up, Kikashie... Seriously. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 15:52, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::::First, I've been around here longer than you have, and although I haven't participated in much wiki drama, I frequent A/VB. And, actually, there <i>is</i> a relation. The fact that several people in this case (you, tech, and lemon) don't like Ion (evident though chatbox trolling, as well as their general attitudes towards him), and the fact that <i>they</i> are the ones suggesting that he's making these vandal accounts, leads me to assume that the accounts may have been made in an attempt to burn Ion off the wiki, by someone who doesn't like him (which could be you, or anybody). But like I <i>just said</i>, in the end none of it really matters. The perma vote is already going on anyway.
:::::::::::::Although you'll probably whine a little more after I bring this up :p, I find it rather odd that Lemon, Tech, and Wan are all in the MOB. Since when does the MOB have a personal vendetta against Ion? Or maybe it was just Lemon being shady again and asking his friends to help him frame someone he doesn't like. I wouldn't put it past him. :D --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup>
:::::::::::Interesting you edit conflicted me as I was writing this: "And... I would not be wasting ''anyone's'' time or bandwidth with this anymore, least of all my own, if it were not for these fucked up insinuations that are being so liberally thrown about. It is REALLY time for this to STOP. For everyone involved. For real." 
:::::::::::Kikashi... go back to watching the X-files if it's a conspiracy you're looking for. And you can accuse me of whining all you want... thing is, it matters not, because I'm not the one talking shit here... --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 16:27, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::And I never ONCE suggested that ioncannon was making the sockpuppets, you git. I couldn't care less who's making them, except for the fact that they are vandalising the wiki. What I have said is that ioncannon is a ''confirmed vandal and a serial troll''... All the facts are all there waiting to be looked at. All of them. And, nope, I do not like him. There are many, many, MANY people who do not like ioncannon... Because, well, he's a troll, a vandal and a dick.... But as for everything else... the facts are there... and your insinuations are cowardly, unfounded and, in fact, bordering on libellous. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 16:32, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::::Indeed, because teh internets are such serious business, don'tcheh know. Honestly, can't anyone get a grip here? We're not talking about a murder case here, I promise. [[User:Illusionist|Illusionist]] 16:40, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::::Yao, you need to chill. And I happen to like the X-files. :p --[[User:Kikashie|Kikashie]] <sup>[[Dulston Alliance/Newspaper|Read the Dispatch!]]</sup> 17:01, 13 August 2008 (BST)
::::::::::::::Did the dick fall out of yao's mouth again? Put a cock in it... [[User:TotalMacho|TotalMacho]] 19:50, 13 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::::::::::Ooooooh, I so scared! Cower in fear everyone, the troll made a penis reference! Why don't you go crawl back into your hole and take your wild claims of hacking threats and conspiracy victims with you.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 19:59, 13 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User:Ioncannon11]]===

I was actually avoiding taking this to VB because I wasn't sure if it was even vandalism. Guess I got schooled huh? =P Thanks for catching this Cheeseman!{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 21:01, 7 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User:Ioncannon11]]===

This is the kind of trolling crap that needs to be stopped. While technically not impersonation, the edit was clearly in bad faith, i.e. there was no intent to improve the wiki, in fact very clearly the opposite was the intent... If this were a first or second time offense, then I think a soft warning (i.e., smarten up) might be appropriate. However, ioncannon has a long and storied history of trolling, some of which has been deemed vandalism, some of which he has been able to get away with. Given this history, it's kind of obvious that his trolling was wilful and destructive and in bad faith. 

Consider this, as well... If "shitting up admin pages" -- even without inflammatory or derogatory content -- can be considered vandalism, then blatant trolling ought to be considered vandalism as well. How come the sysops get special protection from having to deal with B.S. on the pages they use, but the rest of the community doesn't? We don't get ANY protection from trolls, except... "Ignore them", or "Take it Arby"... Which system, as has been demonstrated time and time again, is quite broken. So what about us, the Joe Users, nuh? You have a chance here to set a precedent and declare blatant trolling = vandalism... in a similar vein as to how "shitting up the admin pages" works... Will you take this stand? --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 01:12, 7 August 2008 (BST)
:1. Where is the post on Ioncannon's talk page asking him about this edit? 
:2. That headline isn't something that Tech posted as part of his comment. It isn't impersonation.
:''You have a chance here to set a precedent and declare blatant trolling = vandalism.'' And then make a back door civility policy enforcible? No thanks.  News Flash - Not everyone on the internet is going to be nice to everyone else. And hopefully you are choking on the irony of you posting and bitching about trolls.  You have a nice posting history on Talk:suggestions that would earn you a few days off from the wiki if we did punish trolls. You can't have it both ways. 
:Admin pages need special protection. Deal with it. You bitch about the system being broken yet you also bitch about the few parts that work. Maybe you do need some time off. --{{User:Nubis/sig}} 02:49, 7 August 2008 (BST)
:Yeah, it's a double-edged sword. I'd like to remind you wiki users not involved in the case are '''not to post here.''' This is considered vandalism if you do it excessively, as you are know. [[User:Ioncannon11|Ioncannon11]] 03:07, 7 August 2008 (BST)
::Blah blah... 
::# There is a difference between someone making rude comments in the context of criticising an idea etc., vs. someone who makes completely unconstructive edits which serve no purpose but to insult and to troll -- like ioncannon's in this case. If you can't see the difference, well... whatever...
::# Yup, it's a "backdoor civility policy". However, it's one that fits the spirit of the "bad faith" policy. It deals with edits that have no redeeming value except to spam and to troll. It leaves intact otherwise rude comments that are made in the context of a discussion and/or criticism. If you can't see the difference, and how it'd apply, well, whatever...  
::# Yup, I'd abide by it, if it applied to me. But, my rude comments on communoity pages are always made in a context of a discussion/critique, and never just spammy trolling of headers etc. So it wouldn't apply to my "trolling", nor to most of yours or your SA buddies'. It would apply to crap like ioncannon's adit above. If you can't see the difference between these two types of cases, well, whatever... 
::# I'm not saying that Admin pages don't need special protection... What I am saying is that if it's good enough for the Admin pages, then a parallel procedure is good enough for the non-elite users who have to deal with the rest of the wiki. Again, if this point escape you, well, whatever... 
::Fact is that good users are leaving the wiki, or never joining in the first place, because of serial trolling. But good users don't actually leave the wiki because of some rude comments in Talk:Suggestions, case in point being the fact that some of the users who got flamed recently on Talk:Suggestions stood back from it all and realised where the people who were attacking were coming from, because for the most part there ''was'' a context for the flames... And now we're all a happy emo family working towards the same goals... ;) But if you can't see the difference between this kind trolling vs. making rude comments in the context of commentary... and if you think that over-the-top trolling behavior is a-okay... well... whatever...
::So, sorry nubis, you're not quite there in getting it right. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 03:22, 7 August 2008 (BST)
:::No, he understands everything, you're the dumb fuck who can't seem to to realize this is allowed by the rules. You're not a sysop and you don't make these rules, so GTFO. This is not your a/vb case and, if you piss him off, nubis ''can'' take '''you''' up in vandalism for editing out of place on this page. You are one of the biggest trolls who, without any positive discussion or critical statements, proceed to run their mouths about anything and practically everything. [[User:Ioncannon11|Ioncannon11]] 03:27, 7 August 2008 (BST)

:::''You're an idiot. There was a suggestion a while back called "Pepper Spray" that did what you're talking about. Ergo: DUPE. Don't waste our time with something that is an obvious DUPE. Idiot. Why don't you just fuck off and quit pretending you know what you're talking about... You don't. On so many levels. You're an idiot. GTFO. --WanYao 13:30, 29 July 2008 (BST)''  
:::Please indicate which parts are "constructive". (And I can tell you that the "Pepper Spray" part without a link to support it isn't). Also, please remove the plank from your own eye or however that saying goes.--{{User:Nubis/sig}} 03:33, 7 August 2008 (BST)
::::Take the plank out of YOUR eye, as you put it, Nubis. Where is the context of that comment? Nowhere... Well, I'll provide the context: a bunch of people making atrocious suggestions, one after the other after the other... and then whining and troll-baiting(?) people when their suggestions were (rightly) torn apart. And, the possible existence of an individual or individuals actively trolling the suggestions with crap suggestions and Oprah-crying about being attacked for them... However, I've ALREADY SAID that I'd abide by any movement to deal with trolling as I defined it above. So... take your ad hominems and shove em, Nubis. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 04:38, 7 August 2008 (BST)
:::::And, ioncannon, if you were even half literate, you'd know that you that your statement that I am "one of the biggest trolls who, ''without any positive discussion or critical statements''" (emphasis added) is completely unfounded in anything approaching reality. Can I be an asshole? Fuck yeah... But, as I said, if you actually knew how to read and comprehend what you read, you'd see how absurd your statement is... For example, in the suggestions page, when people aren't being COMPLETE halfwits, my comments are most usually constructive and postive. As I said, context... it's everything... That little quote does, however, from everthing I have seen, seem to apply VERY well to you, ioncannon... --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 04:47, 7 August 2008 (BST) Ok... why am I doing this?? Seeya, kids, have fun. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 04:56, 7 August 2008 (BST)
::::::Shut up you nerd. With a name like wanyao, i bet you slurp up wonton soup and egg rolls all day and night. [[User:Ioncannon11|Ioncannon11]] 21:06, 7 August 2008 (BST)
:::::::This case is closed, so shut up about it and go bitch about your NEXT vandalism case you Nerd hating anti-asian troll.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 21:13, 7 August 2008 (BST)

"''Also, please remove the plank from your own eye or however that saying goes.--Nubis''
:''Take the plank out of YOUR eye, as you put it, Nubis. --WanYao"''

If one steps back a little and thinks of what the plank saying means, this is a pretty amusing dialogue.  --[[User:Toejam|Toejam]] 21:56, 7 August 2008 (BST)

===[[User:Jackson|Jackson]]===
Nyet. This should be moved to his subpage, and he should be told that posting pages like this on the wiki main is bad. I'd actually assume he didn't know that rule. --{{User:Axe27/Sig}} 18:00, 4 August 2008 (BST)