Talk:Uniform Barricading Policy

Discussion of the UBP and barricading plans in general. Please be polite and sign your posts.

Suggestions for modifications

Put suggestions for minor tweaks to the plan. Particularly to deal with changes in the game mechanics. Please review past discussions in the archives before adding one here.

Ruin

It may be worth having some buildings deliberately left ruined to be used as entry points, the advantage of course being that they'd be far more (maybe eight times more) easily visible than VSB entry points, but the cost being that there'd be fewer barricaded buildings in the suburb. Thoughts? --  T   09:24, 23 August 2007 (BST)

With enough entry points around, it is not that important to recognise them easily. Even less for wiki users and other metagamers. When the suburb is under attack, ruins appear naturally anyway and in safe suburbs it's not that deadly to sleep outside, or at least easy enough to get a fast revive.

The now increasing costs to repair ruins make it harder to raise the cades as the need arises. AP need to be spent to maintain ruins, too. Less VSB safehouses come at the costs of less EHB safehouses, so the few of them should not be turned into ruins, providing less security for non-freerunners or less "real" safehouses at EHB.

In short: Voting against. Outside tags including the direction of nearby entry points might be a better solution.--Paul Power 12:31, 7 July 2008 (BST)

Less essential buildings

The increased difficulty to raise cades after a breakin makes EHB buildings more important than ever. Without raising their total number, I'd like to see at least the important TRPs at EHB. Therefore, let's remove Necrotech Buildings and Auto Shops from the list of essential buildings. While they do contain important items, these items are not needed for leveling up (or available elsewhere (Fire Axe) or starter items (Fire Axe, DNA Extractor)) and thus not required to be available for low-levels.

I wouldn't miss schools either, but as they are no important TRPs, they may remain VSB if that helps anyone.--Paul Power 12:31, 7 July 2008 (BST)

Seconded: Scientists/Medics can level using FAKs (from VSB hospitals) and DNA extraction until they buy Free-Running.
Auto-Repair shops are not important for anything other than keeping generators running, i.e. do not need to be accessible to newbies.
NT buildings are so critical to the community as a whole that I feel they should be kept at EHB at all times, and the UBP modified to state that they must have a VSB entry-point. --JimBraidwood 16:43, 14 October 2009 (BST)

Auto Repair Shops were already removed for the reasons pointed out. NT buildings are a much larger issue, and while I personally feel that keeping one NT (per suburb) at VSB isn't asking for too much, it is really an issue that the community as a whole needs to decide upon. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 03:47, 15 October 2009 (BST)

I'm certainly of the opinion that NTs should be kept to EHB, since the only resource that needs to be regularly sought there relies on a skill and is usually not used for leveling purposes. More generally though, I think the term "Essential Building" is a misnomer. For most players, essential buildings are TRPs. Obviously, things like fire stations and schools are not TRPs (at least by the current definition), yet I can see why they were included in the essential buildings list, since they provided reliable VSB locations across the map. Perhaps renaming them to "Leveling Friendly Buildings" or "Newbie Friendly Buildings" would make more sense to people that are having trouble understanding why things like schools are marked as essential? —Aichon— 09:22, 21 October 2009 (BST)

Fire stations and schools

Why are there at VSB??? They're not really essential for anything. Fire stations are only useful for fire axes, and if you're a noob looking for an axe, wait... that won't really happen, ever, because if you have axe training then you already have an axe! Therefore there is no reason to keep fire stations VSB, they aren't even tactical resource points. Also, schools, wtf? Noobs don't need schools. Noobs just need ammo, and FAKs, that's about it. --ScaredPlayer 04:36, 18 April 2009 (BST)

Agreed. JimBraidwood 03:19, 6 October 2009 (BST)

The reason why both Fire Stations and Schools are VSB is so that new players who do not yet have Free Running have locations that they can get into for safehouses. Also, not everyone starts with an axe, therefore there will be a number of folks who need to search for one as well. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 09:41, 6 October 2009 (BST)

Having given this some more thought... Re: Maverick, that's the reason for keeping *any* building at VSB, and not a very sound argument-- we don't leave NT buildings at VSB just because they have syringes, but syringes are a very important XP item for some players. The flip-side, though, is that schools and fire stations really don't have much value, so exposing them to extra risk (by lowering them to VSB) doesn't pose as much of a risk to the population as a whole. Losing a Mall or NT building is a serious blow; losing a schoolhouse isn't a big deal.

I do think that it's a bit fat-fingered though... saying that all fire stations and all schools should be at VSB doesn't take into account the layout of these buildings within the suburb. In particular, if ruining one of these can completely break a free-running lane, requiring a huge run-around or a search for a new entry-point, then it seems inappropriate.

Better than nothing I guess. I've just cleaned up and submitted 4 or 5 BPs for UBP review, which is to say that it's been 3 years and the UBP still isn't in fully implemented, much less ready for review and refinement. I'm going to keep working at making sure each suburb at least has a reviewed plan, and once that's done I'll come back around and start looking at them for finer points. Most notably, protection of non-redundant free-running lanes (i.e. those which don't have an easy alternative if one link is ruined), obsolete RPs, and access to resources from or within neighboring suburbs. I believe that the Districts idea will help make this more manageable.-- JimBraidwood 15:41, 6 October 2009 (BST)

I understand your argument completely. In the re-review of plans that will be taking place over the next couple months those kinds of things will be taken into account. There are more than a few areas where having a single building ruined can destroy the free-running lane for a suburb or even an entire district (depending on location). These are certainly exceptions to the standard UBP guidelines that I would certainly allow while reviewing. Obviously every suburb and district will have its own unique situation and exceptions are going to occur, but the idea behind the UBP is to have a set of guidelines that should be followed as often as possible.

Part of the NT argument is that some players choose to start as an NT Lab Assistant. If that is the case, they start out in an NT... and without the Free Running skill. So if all NT are by default EHB, then these level ones have no option other than to wait for zombies to come knocking before they can actually do anything with their characters. By keeping at least one NT in each suburb (as applicable) at VSB this lessens the odds of that happening. And just like with other VSB buildings, in times of siege the guidelines can most certainly be thrown out the window as TRPs will be set to EHB and ruins also serve as fine entry points. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 04:18, 7 October 2009 (BST)

I started the game about two months back, and my first character was a Lab Assistant that started in an EHB NT. I'm not sure what you mean about being unable to "do anything" though. I exited the building before I understood what EHB meant (I clicked on a neighboring block to exit), extracted a few zombies, realized I couldn't get back in, and bumbled around for a few blocks before finding a building I could enter. I know that I was able to get by just fine, but even if we assume that all level one characters are completely incapable of keeping themselves safe, we shouldn't be building the UBP around that edge case. Personally, I had no further use for an NT until weeks later when I was actually capable of revivifying, and by then, I had long-since picked up Free Running. —Aichon— 09:07, 21 October 2009 (BST)

RP guidelines

RPs should:

1. generally be located near an NT
2. always have a VSB entry-point within 2 blocks

--JimBraidwood 16:48, 14 October 2009 (BST)

I agree with both of your points, however I think the actual location of Revive Points is more of a suburb matter and less of a Barricade Plan matter. While the location should work with the plan, I would consider the two mutually exclusive. --Maverick ^{Talk - OBR 404} 08:29, 16 October 2009 (BST)

Plan Reviews

All published UBP reviews can be found on the UBP Plan Reviews page.

Plans to be (re)reviewed

If you have a plan that has not yet been reviewed above, or was updated since its last review, please provide a link to the plan here.

Pros & cons of the UBP

General discussion of the UBPs usefulness. Pitch your own versions here. ;) And I'll start with some responses to the older discussions on this page (see below) that I was lax in responding to earlier (again, sorry!). Feel free to interject comments between paragraphs were appropriate. Please be sure to sign your posts and indent responses so it is easier to keep track of the discussion. Thanks! --Gilant 15:46, 16 Dec 2005 (GMT)

First, the UBP isn't particularly designed for offense or defense. My aim, based largely on the previous work and experiences of others, was to try and develop a balanced plan that tries to accommodate the real-world efforts of survivors in the wild (so to speak ;), which seems to be to lock every building up to EHB, while not shutting out inexperienced characters & players. It is intended as much as an educational tool as a concrete plan.

Indeed in practice I know of no published plan that adheres exactly to this policy. Every specific suburb plan varies slightly to adjust to local needs and traditions, and that is exactly what I expected.

As for making all or most buildings VS+2, I understand the arguments and even agree with some. However, convincing the general populace to not have a host of buildings they like to rest in EH is nearly impossible IMHO. The best I think we can hope for is guide their selection of locations. That is part of the UBP's purpose. I also don't have the AP or interest to spend all my time tearing down barricades throughout a suburb. But with some education a few people can keep a fair number of buildings VS, and that's a good start. I also disagree that the UBP forces survivors into too few targets tempting to zombies. While the policy requires a minimum of 8 VS locations, I have yet to find a suburb where if the building recommendations are followed the number is less than 12-14, and usually closer to 20.

I've also seen it argued the EH doesn't help because two zombies can pull it down in a day. While this is true in the simplest case, it leaves off some real-play factors. Mainly, if a building contains a fair number of survivors, whether VS or EH, chances are barricades will be getting rebuilt as soon as it is noticed they are coming down. Unless the attack by is well coordinated through metagaming or someone is zerging it takes a fair sized mob of loosely coordinated zombies to overcome an actively defended building. And one that starts at EH has more margin for time lapses between active defenders. Buildings that aren't well populated (defended) tend to just be evacuated when the occupant(s) realize the barricades are down or falling.

The Archives

Old suggestions and review comments that have been (I hope) handled can be found in the Archives.