User talk:Chester Katz

Hi Chester,

I was just looking over my posts (history) and found that had you had erased one that mentioned the positioning of people entering a building, http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=News&diff=21501&oldid=21499. You had given a reason that it should come from in game. However, since your post, no update was released that stated the change. In addition, post-posts of my post (maybe anti-posts works better) have also been in the same vein as mine but you have not have not seen fit to remove any of them. As such, I was wondering if you would care to reinsert what you had previously exorcised or should I do it myself? --Celt Mac ɩreann 20:43, 22 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Nice work on alphabetising the group names properly; didn't know you could do that. --Spiro 10:03, 10 Oct 2005 (BST)

Wish I could take all the credit, but I was following Daranz's lead. He categorized a bunch of the human groups. I saw what he did and took care of the rest of the groups, as well as any other "The" items I could find in the categories. -Chester Katz 15:19, 10 Oct 2005 (BST)

On Alexei

I just wanted to let you know that, not only has he been asked (before you mentioned as much) to settle down, but you might notice that the pages by !1A that were recommended for deletion weren't even done so by him. All three of his assinine pages were recommended for deletion by YuriRuler90, not by Alexei or any other member of the Imperium. I was ready to let things slide, it's really not worth the trouble, but since someone else recommended they be removed, I figured I'd back them up, since he really is only doing it to be an ass. - RosutoEnzeru 18:11, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Yes, and I've voted delete on 2 of those 3 pages. I would actually prefer for the REAL The Imperium entry to go away as well, but I've voted "keep" on it only because I feel that there's a precedent, bad precedent though it may be. However, you'll also notice that my comments weren't in regards to !1A's pages, but rather to Alexei's edits of other groups. I am glad to hear that he'll be settling down, though -- maybe !1A will finally get bored and go back under the bridge. --Chester Katz 18:34, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)

I should certainly hope so, for some reason, our group's leader (who is not, as I can't stress enough, Alexei) seems to have succumbed to some degree to the pressure of users like !1A and LibrarianBrent, and is attempted to change the entire structure of the group. !1A is just an ass that doesn't want anyone to have any fun without his go ahead, and Brent seems unable to wrap his head around the concept of roleplaying. I'm all for just completely ignoring them both, but that's not the call the boss-man's made.  :/ Hopefully when the dust settles, he'll come around. Anyway, thanks for your understanding, and in some respects, your support. Although, as Alexei, and I think a few other users, have pointed out, the precedent set by the New CoL has very little to do with !1A's page. The new CoL is a real group that, perhaps in a powergrab, sought to seek into the void that they believed had been made by the old CoL's apparent disappearance. !1A, however, is just being a troll and a cock. He hasn't created a new group, he hasn't even created a new page, all he's done is copy and paste ours and add his own links. - RosutoEnzeru 18:47, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)

I don't think that LibrarianBrent is a problem, unless he's done something drastic that I didn't notice. I think he might have made a few knee-jerk reactions in regards to actions by Alexei, but I'm guilty of that myself. I'd definitely urge your boss-man to just ride it out. As far as I can tell, there shouldn't be any issues with the Imperium pages themselves. You shouldn't allow trolling by !1A or other users like him to pressure you into changing a legitimate group structure.

As far as the New CoL goes, I still believe that they're essentially a troll group. If you don't think the New CoL was created solely for the purposes of trolling the original CoL, then you probably haven't followed the extensive history and bad blood between the two groups. And by history, I mean well before the existence of the New CoL. These groups have been antagonizing each other for months now. --Chester Katz 19:10, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)

I'd like to add to that very good point that the New CoL also Copy/Pasted practically the entire page when they first created it. I do wish Alexei would stop changing pages like he does, because that makes anyone who actually has sensible edits to make look like they're siding with him. (see the moderations/deletion page, for example, where through a terrible analogy I was compared to him. --Daxx 19:19, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Yeah, that was my basic analogy. I wasn't trying to make it look like you were siding with Alexei, Daxx. I was using you as an example of somebody else who has been trolled in a similar manner. The arguments on the deletion thread for REAL The Imperium have basically fallen into the same mold as arguments in the CoL/CoL debate. The only major difference I see in the way Katthew and co. are trolling the CoL is that they do it on a more literate level. --Chester Katz 19:46, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)

You're correct in that I don't know much of the history, nor, to be honest, do I want to. This nonsense with !1A is more than enough drama for me, I just want to RP and have fun. Brent hasn't been MUCH of a problem, but his comments to any group that might have a hint of a connection to our group or the Warhammer or Warhammer 40k games at all are nothing short of what I call 'douchebaggery,' on account of the fact that !1A has highjacked 'asshattery.' But from where I stand (as far away as possible), the New CoL is a seperate group from the Old CoL, not just a conglomeration of trolls. One would expect there to be contention between the two as the New CoL did attempt to step into the Old CoL's place and usurp everything they stand for, but it is, at least, a seperate group. Now, if not when it started. !1A, however, and his 'Real' Imperium exist purely to mock The Imperium and those of us within it. I find it hard to believe that anyone who might want to RP a 40k-based character would join the 'real' Imperium over us, as it doesn't even attempt to present itself as a real group, or even anything other than a mockery of our group. This isn't to say that I don't feel for the old CoL, just that I think the circumstances are somewhat different. - RosutoEnzeru 19:36, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)

I would actually consider the New CoL to be a bigger troll than REAL The Imperium if only for the fact that they've managed to get people to take them seriously -- the mark of an expert troll. Which would you rather have trolling you: a group that's obviously not serious and will be readily ignored by anyone thinking of supporting your cause, or a group that does a good enough job of mimicking The Imperium that they're granted a false sense of legitimacy in the community? --Chester Katz 20:20, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Touch鮠- RosutoEnzeru 21:10, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Moderation/ Speedy Deletions

What?!!! (diff) (hist) . . ! Moderation/Speedy Deletions; 20:22 . . Chester Katz (Talk) (I'm going to assume that Andrew McM deleted this material by accident.)

Deleted what material? -- Andrew McM 20:25, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)

You deleted my comment and the deletion request below it. Here's your edit. Looks like an inadvertent delete; you were probably editing an old version. No problem as far as I'm concerned. --Chester Katz 20:47, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Thank you for letting me know of a browsing/editing mistake where I removed one of my own contributions to the list of deletion candidates. It didn't matter for the final result; they voted along my line to remove the pk list from the wiki. Didn't catch your message on time, too late to put my vote back in now. Still, glad to know someone's watching the edits. -- John Cooper 10:34, 9 Feb 2006 (GMT)

REAL The Imperium

Mr Chester Katz, I commend you on your ability to eloquently articulate and present well thought out contentions concerning the REAL_The_Imperium, that are both logically sound and to which I can find no fault. I wish I could disagree with your appraisal of the situation, however I can not. I agree with the premise that certain previous precedents need to reevaluated, specifically fraud with malicious intent being more strictly punished. --Matthew-Stewart 20:38, 12 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Thanks for the comments. As I've stated in my latest comment on that thread I really think that this wiki needs to adopt more of the codes of conduct from Wikipedia. Don't get me wrong -- I'm under no illusions that this wiki should aspire to the levels of Wikipedia, but I do feel quite strongly that a certain measure of civility is essential to the smooth operation of a wiki. There are plenty of places for Urban Dead players to attack and flame each other -- the wiki shouldn't be one of them. Sadly, the UD wiki has become a place where trolling and flaming are the norm and are treated as perfectly acceptable behavior. Deleting REAL The Imperium would just be ignoring the greater issue at hand, and that's why I'm fighting so hard to keep the article around. The long and short of it is that I don't want to just slap a bandaid on the problem; I want it fixed. --Chester Katz 22:04, 12 Dec 2005 (GMT)

I agree that the wiki here needs a more-strict review of what constitutes "acceptible behaviour" - I just think that there's no specific rule-set that can be put inplace that will both avoid unfairly punishing mostly-innocent actions (like the joke-page for the Escaped_penguin) and appropriately-punish things that are destructive enough to need moderation. Hence why I think it's silly to leave the REAL The Imperium site inplace - I don't think the moderators necessarily need a specific rule violation to act on things that are obviously problematic. --Drakkenmaw 22:22, 12 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Oops. Sorry about deleting part of a comment when I moved the discussion from the deletions thread. I tried to compare and make sure I had gotten everything. - RosutoEnzeru 16:22, 13 Dec 2005 (GMT)

No worries, it was an honest mistake. When I looked at your edit, the way that comment was formatted even confused me, and I'm the one who formatted it that way in the first place. --Chester Katz 16:38, 13 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Harassment Policy

Cyberbob240 and I are working on a harassment policy. You mentioned a desire to stop all the ad hominem attacks that were going on on the wiki, and I thought you might be interested in seeing it. Comments go on my talk page, thanks. -Wyndal ^{(talk)-(W!)-(SGP)} 10:54, 26 April 2006 (BST)