Suggestion talk:20070925 Ruined and Powered equals Orange

3. Kill - I would enjoy having it but the way it is encourages survivors to search ruined buildings and even gives entrepreneurial groups the choice of keeping buildings ruined for strategic purposes. If such play starts to see frequent use I think it could be an interesting addition for both sides.--Karek^maps?! 20:33, 25 September 2007 (BST)

The current situation means that zombies should NEVER EVER ruin a building.

• Scenario A: Ridleybank completely ransacked
• Scenario B: Ridleybank completely ruined

In scenario A, you must check everyone open building to confirm that it is ransacked, and contains no survivors. In scenario B, you still have to check each building, only this time to look for a powered generator. The survivors in scenario B have just as much protection as they do in scenario A, but without having to put up with ransacked search rates. And they get this benefit by zombies spending additional AP! This makes no sense. 'arm. 00:09, 26 September 2007 (BST)

You still have to search the buildings, having a generator doesn't change much of anything, especially considering that more often then not the zombies will be in the resource buildings if they are anywhere.--Karek^maps?! 00:13, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Normally the side that gets the benefit pays the cost - not here though! 'arm. 00:51, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Zombies get some benefits from ruin, in this case survivors have the cost of the generator which will, in active zombie controlled suburbs, be a one time use item. In an abandoned suburb this might be an issue though, or in a survivors controlled but ruined one.--Karek^maps?! 01:02, 26 September 2007 (BST)

So in zombie controlled and patrolled suburbs, the supposed benefit of Ruin (that you can tell that the ransacked search penalty has been applied without having actually to go inside, thus saving AP) is replaced by the one-use generators. I can see how there might be a benefit there. But in every other other situation ruin gives a benefit to survivors. This means zombies are paying AP for zero benefit to themselves - they still have to search each open building to see if survivors are there and able to search at the normal rate. And it's a high cost too - equivalent to a headshot. 'arm. 01:44, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Not debating that ruin sucks, I just think that the way it is now in regards to this situation is fine.--Karek^maps?! 01:54, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Interesting, because I think that this change would solve the ruin update and make it equal for each side. 'arm. 02:00, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Nothing will do that.--Karek^maps?! 03:13, 26 September 2007 (BST)

And doing nothing is exactly what you advocate ;). 'arm. 03:13, 26 September 2007 (BST)

In this case yes, because doing something takes away the opportunity of something interesting.--Karek^maps?! 03:20, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Jesus, the zombies are still whining about ruin not being powerful enough? Toolkits, the loss of free running... that's a pretty powerful buff. Arm, would you vote for a suggestion that disallowed ruining of heavily barricaded buildings? That little anomaly could be a real catch, kicking survivors to street level, expecting to be able to enter the building, but locked out -- boxy • talk • 03:26 26 September 2007 (BST)

There is only one actual real benefit to ruins and that is pinatas which requires coordination between survivors and zombies, other then that everything but the free running block helps survivors, and the free running block doesn't even do much beyond waste 1 AP per trip, free running would have been a powerful buff if you couldn't free run out of the building which would have made it too powerful of a buff. Toolkits are not a punishment unless you are completely brain dead or want to carry around 20 shotguns.--Karek^maps?! 03:38, 26 September 2007 (BST)

I wouldn't cry over the loss of pinatas, though it would be a shame to lose those additional Death Cultist tactics. Grimch almost had me convinced with his vote that the the status quo is better, as it allows the possibility of more tactics (and even a Life Cultist one of purposely ruining a powered building that is barricaded to VS) - and I am genuinely interested in this game having as much depth as possible. However it's the massive AP nerf to zombie-kind (they really won't be able to stop themselves from going for a full ruin in the situations where it's a waste of AP) that makes me convinced that this change needs to be made. 'arm. 04:12, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Pinatas do not require human-zombie coordination. They can occur in the course of normal breakins: if the building is re-barricaded, but the survivors are subsequently killed by zombies remaining inside... You've got a pinata. Maybe, or maybe not, an EHB pinata, but a pinata nonetheless... And so what if zombies have to look inside ruined buildings for generators? In the places where "cloaked generators" are really going to be an issue (i.e. heavily ruined areas) smart zombies should be checking inside ruined buildings anyway, to find survivors attempting to "hide in plain sight". --WanYao 06:20, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Yes, my point exactly. The ruin update ostensibly allows zombies to determine that buildings are ransacked from the outside, rather than having to check inside. This is the reason that there is a cost to ruin - it saves AP 'scouting' a suburb. Yes, it's still obvious that survivors could hide in plain sight - but they will only be getting reduced search rates. Ruining a suburb provides an advantage to survivors because they can now hide generators in plain sight too. This advantage is supplied by a zombie skill and zombie AP. This is my complaint. 'arm. 06:46, 26 September 2007 (BST)

Rot Clinics

So the complaint here is that Rot Clinics are currently able to be hidden, and this would reverse the situation back to what it always used to be? Hardly a nerf in that case is it? 'arm. 16:31, 27 September 2007 (BST)

Where are these hidden rotter revive clinics anyway? Every clinic I've stumbled across has spraypaint leading me straight there. Rotter revive, 3 south and 1 west--Actingupagain 16:53, 27 September 2007 (BST)

I agree - I don't think this hide rot clinics at all. It just means you can't tell if they are active or not. 'arm. 17:06, 27 September 2007 (BST)