User:Desperado/Life and death in Malton

Life and Death in Malton

There's something wrong with the current death and revivification system, but I can't put my finger on exactly what it is, let alone how to fix it. To help myself out, I'm going to write out my thoughts and the numbers that go along with them. Maybe I'll figure out what's bothering me about the current system.

Survivor, immediate effects, best case scenario:

The best case scenario has a survivor who dies immediately revived. The survivor has to spend 10 AP to stand up (1 AP if they have Ankle Grab, but that's a second level zombie skill), gets stuck with the syringe, and then has to spend 1 AP to stand with half their max HP. Total loss for a survivor who dies in the best case scenario: 11 AP (2 AP with Ankle Grab) and 25 HP (30 with Bodybuilding).

Survivor, immediate effects, worse case scenario:

In the worst case scenario, the survivor has to make their way to a revive point. The survivor has to spend 10 AP to stand up (no zombie skills for this ex-survivor), walk to the nearest revive point (spending 2 AP per a block to do so), wait to be revived, spend 1 AP to stand with half the AP they had as a zombie, (which could be very low), and the unlucky survivor is infected, so they have to get treated ASAP. Total loss for a survivor who dies in the worst case scenario: At least 13 AP, potentially much, much more, an unknown amount of HP, and a lot of lost playtime, plus the infection (which costs 1 AP or more to cure, and carries the chance of re-death with it).

Zombie, immediate effects, best case scenario:

In the best case scenario, the zombie has Ankle Grab and is not killed by a zombie hunter. The zombie has to spend 1 AP to stand with full HP. Total cost for this lucky zombie: 1 AP.

Zombie, immediate effects, worst case scenario:

This zombie lacks Ankle Grab and gets Head shot. This unlucky zombie has to spend 15 AP to stand up with full HP. Total cost for this poor corpse: 15 AP

Zombie, immediate effects, combat revive scenario:

A zombie who is revived in combat must spend 1 AP to stand as a survivor with 1/2 the HP they had as a zombie (probably less than their max). They may or may not be infected. In any case, to return to a zombie they must die (which may cost them no AP), then spend 10 AP (1 AP if the zombie has Ankle Grab) to stand up as a zombie with full HP. There are 3 ways the ex-zombie can die:

1. Get killed by other zombies (or humans, in theory).
2. Enter and jump out of a tall building.
3. Wander around long enough to die from infection.

The higher the zombie presence in the neighborhood, the easier the first and second methods will be. Dieing from infection takes the longest, but the ex-zombie may do other things while waiting for infection to claim them (like find a flack jacket, or learn bodybuilding). Making some assumptions, the combat revived zombie may loose as little as 2 AP, or as much as 40 AP (even more is possible, but unlikely). Rough estimate of the costs to a combat revived zombie: 20 AP plus some lost play time.

Survivor, long term effects, both scenarios:

In addition to the AP the survivor spends getting revived, someone must revive them. This costs them 10 AP, plus however much AP it took to find or make the syringe, plus the AP sent to get to the survivor (in the best case scenario this is 0 AP), plus the AP spent to get back to their safe house (usually the same AP it took to get to the ex-survivor). The reviver risks their life and spends all that AP and gains 10 XP. 5 XP is gained for each FAK used on the revived survivor by another person, but each one costs at least 2 AP (1 AP to find, 1 AP to use). Total effects: At least 13 AP lost, usually more, and can go very high (AP lost by dead survivor + 10 AP to use syringe + search AP + travel AP + AP to heal the revived survivor). 10 XP is gained by the person who revives them, and 5 XP is gained per a FAK used on the revived survivor by another. Significant amounts of play time are lost by all parties involved.

Zombie, long term effects, best and worst case scenarios:

There are no long term effects from a zombie death beyond the AP lost by the individual zombie.

Zombie, long term effects, combat revive scenario:

If the ex-zombie is killed by other zombies, the zombies must spend the necessary AP to kill the ex-zombie, but they get full experience in return. If the zombie dies of infection or commits suicide, there is no effect beyond the AP spent by the combat revived zombie. The human who revived the zombie spends an unknown amount of AP (at least 1) to find the syringe, and 10 AP to use the syringe, and receives 10 XP in return.

First Evaluation:

Looking at the raw numbers leads me to several conclusions:

1. Zombie death only carries a cost for the zombie who dies. If revived and killed by other zombies, those zombies gain the same amount of XP per AP as they would attacking any other survivor, and a combat revived zombie is much less dangerous and much easier to kill than a normal survivor.
2. The cost of zombie death for the zombie can range from 15 AP or so to as little as 1 AP.
3. Combat revived zombies potentially spend large amounts of AP to become zombies again, but the humans must spend a large amount of AP to revive the zombie, and receive little XP in return.
4. Survivors who die loose relatively small amounts of AP themselves (a worst case scenario survivor might loose less AP than a worst case scenario zombie). Getting revived may be frustrating and cost them significant amounts of play time, but the AP cost is relatively small.
5. Survivors who die cause a great loss of AP for survivors as a whole, and the amount of XP gained by the survivors who help them is relatively small.

My initial conclusion: Individual survivors should be more heavily penalized for dying, but survivors as a whole are over penalized for survivor death. I will add to this very soon, but comments are always welcome. --Desperado 18:51, 18 July 2006 (BST)

Handy Note: when looking at XP per AP, remember that books yield about .1 XP per AP (double that for scientists), and don't put you in any danger. A person with a fire axe and all the relevant skills can earn 60 XP per a day with AP to spare. --Desperado 18:59, 18 July 2006 (BST)

Second Evaluation: Zombie death cost seems just about right to me (Ankle Grab is a little over powered, but not too much). Zombies should be able to rise over and over again at little penalty. However my evaluation of survivor death stands. The survivors who die need to be punished more for their carelessness, and the people who help them are over-penalized/under-rewarded. The current question kicking around my mind: how to accomplish this without making the combat revive too effective? The whole reason syringes now cost 10 AP to use is because combat reviving became too powerful. So how to fix Life and Death in Malton for the survivors without ruining it for the zombies? I'm don't yet know. --Desperado 20:35, 18 July 2006 (BST)

Eureka! (Sort of)

After sleeping on the problem (literally), I have come up with a potential solution. Whenever a survivor is killed they take a 48 AP penalty, meaning that they have to wait 24 hours before they can do anything: harass other zombies, seek revivification, whatever. This makes death something to be feared, as it makes the ex-survivor completely helpless for a full day. In order to make sure this doesn't alter combat revives (and to cut people with really bad luck a break), this penalty is not incurred if you were recently revived ("recently revived" meaning you have not spent more than 24 AP since you were revived). Additionally, standing up after being revived should cost 0 AP. Besides, if combat revives are a major problem in your area, Brain Rot will fix that.

This, however, only takes care of the first part of the problem. Reviving someone still puts a large drain on other survivors' AP, and they don't get much for it. To fix that, the AP cost of using a syringe should be reduced (5 AP), and the XP reward for successfully reviving someone should be increased (25 XP). This makes revivifying someone easier and more rewarding. To top it all off, I think that if someone uses a first aid kit on you and cures an infection, they should receive additional XP (+2 XP). After all, they're doing more work, so they should get more reward.

Net result: Survivors have a much greater fear of death, zombies have just as much fear of death as they do now (aka none), combat revives are no more effective than they are now (slightly less, in fact), revivers don't have to spend as much AP, and revivers and medical types receive a greater reward for their efforts. While it may not be the optimal solution to the problems with Life and Death in Malton, it's better than no solution at all. --Desperado 17:03, 19 July 2006 (BST)