User:Karek/Rants/Suggestions and Common Sense

This is currently spilling out of my head, it's probably gonna be refined many times until it reaches the level of crude oil and I can regurgitate it onto people repetitively to save me the time, and hassle, of just calling them a moron, for some reason they don't like that much.

Suggestions and Common Sense

The Rules as Written

1. Suggestions can be removed by Dupe votes if three users vote Dupe and at least 1 user provides a link to the duped suggestion. Dupe removal is part of cycling suggestions.
2. Each author should not make more than one suggestion per day (i.e. in a 24 hour period beginning at 00:01 BST). This limit does not include suggestions which the author has removed for the purpose of revision. Suggestions may be revised once per day at most. Suggestions must be removed prior to revisions being posted. This is also part of the cycling suggestions process.
3. Suggestions created entirely for the purpose of satire, insult, or comedy are considered vandalism and treated appropriately by sysops. If you want to post a joke suggestion put it on the Humorous Page. Again, also part of the cycling suggestions process.
4. Eligibility for Spamination is achieved if there are at least 7 Spam votes and the number of Spam votes are equal to 2/3rds or greater of the total number of votes, with the author vote included in all these tallies. Part of the cycling suggestions process.
5. A Sysop can, if they so choose, delete any suggestion with three or more Spams as long as Spams outnumber Keeps; this includes their own spam vote. Suggestions may not be removed as spam unless voting has been open for 6 hours.
6. Sysops may remove troll-based votes and they do so with a strikeout in order to preserve the trolling removal for posterity. The voter may contest the strikeout with the Sysop that struck their vote out on the discussion page. Only a System Operator may remove a strikeout. This is done with the Note comment type.
7. Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped, if they are not they may be struck by any user.
8. Re may be used to comment on a vote. Only the original author and the person being REd can comment. Comments are restricted to a single comment per vote.
9. One vote per user. No exceptions. You cannot use multiple wiki accounts to vote on a suggestion.
10. Once you have posted your suggestion, it is considered complete. Altering the suggestion mechanics after voting has begun nullifies existing votes, and is considered an abuse of the suggestions system. Doing so will result in your suggestion being removed from the voting system to removed suggestions, where you can work out the details and resubmit later if you desire.
11. "Notes" added for clarification purposes, and correcting spelling/typos are permitted. When considering adding a clarification note, it is often better for all parties involved, for the author to remove the suggestion and resubmit it with the clarification included for the voters who have already placed their votes.

Ideals of What The Rules Should Do

Pretty simple really.

1. Keep suggestions that have already been suggested from filling up Peer Reviewed or Peer Rejected, so that Kevan can sift through them easier when deciding what to add.
2. Keep suggestions that are utterly ridiculous and game breaking from filling up Peer Reviewed or Peer Rejected, so that Kevan can sift through them easier when deciding what to add.
3. Show the majority of the communities views on suggestions, Peer Reviewed is generally overwhelming approval, Undecided is more people for than against but lacking a definite majority, and Peer Rejected is more people against than for.
4. Allow for the refinement of ideas to be more balanced and fun.
5. Prevent or limit extended arguments on the Project Page.
6. Give the suggestion author feedback on why people choose to vote how they did, for the purpose of future refinement.
7. Keep jokes from clogging up the system so that real suggestions are easier to sift through.
8. Keep suggestions manageable for the users who wish to vote.

Some of these things are done better than others. I've probably missed a few additions that can be made.

The Rules as Used

The actual usage and interpretation of the rules is actually pretty different than the literal rules, as is to be expected from any system that tries to overly govern behavior and assumes a lack of common sense in the users.

Dupes: Dupes are a bit awkward and their actual enforcement is complicated due to an attempt to reconcile their purpose and the written rules. Dupes are considered valid votes, even though they count for nothing. Dupes do not require justification as the link, if it is an exact dupe, is justification enough. However, if the dupe is disputed, or partially ambiguous for some reason, justification as to why it is a duplicate of another suggestion is required. Dupe voters should not remove the suggestions, even when there are three dupe votes, it's a conflict of interests and pretty much always rules out rule #1 of cycling duped suggestions. 3 dupe votes does not mean it will be removed, it's generally left up to Sysop review but, it should always be reviewed by the user who cycles the page.

Spam: Pretty straight forward, 2/3rds votes remove it, at any time. Sysops can and do occasionally use the sysop spaminated portion of the rules.

Invalid Votes: Invalid votes can not be struck by any user, that's a lie and the rule has caused no end to drama on A/VB. Striking a vote because it lacks justification is, more often than not, considered Vandalism and warrants a vandal escalation, warning, banning, etc. The only invalid votes a user can strike are; Non-Author Res/invalid Comments, Unsigned Votes, Improperly Signed Votes, and Votes After Voting Closes. That is it. Sysops can strike; Troll Votes(with NOTE rule) and Sock-puppet Votes_{(considered vandal edits but only verifiable by them)}. No Users can strike votes with poor justification, it's generally considered vandalism.

Keep Votes: Do Not Require Justification.

Kill Votes: Require Justification.

Change Votes: Probably the most confusing portion of the voting process that is actually not included anywhere in the rules and came unto it's own is the Change votes. The most confusing part? They are used as a sub vote for both Keep and Kill. This has frustrated users to no end through the times as Keep voters want people to move Change votes to keep so the suggestion gets passed(even if they want a portion of it eliminated or reworked) and Kill votes(correctly) refuse to accept the suggestion until it is Removed for Revision and the changes made. Change is technically an invalid vote type but is in reality a Kill, users who Keep/Change are technically killing the suggestion because they don't want the suggested version to pass, doesn't change that Keep/Change votes are, when counted for cycling, considered as Keep votes and Kill/Change votes as Kill votes.

Spam Votes: Count as Kill votes when cycling suggestions, these are the most harassed votes as many users don't actually understand their purpose_{(or at least most Kill/Keep voters don't understand Spam)}. Spam votes are often slandered with the term Strong Kill although it is usually a vote claiming that the suggestion is so broken not even revision can help it, or that the suggestion will do nothing but annoy users with spam/useless information. It is also sometimes used to remove suggestions that are Dupes, suggested many times, but have at least one or more functional differences from the version in Peer Reviewed/Peer Rejected/Undecided.

Spam/Dupe Votes: Are an invalid vote type but are counted as Spam votes with extra commentary, usually claiming that it's either pretty close to something else but there is 1 or more viable differences or that it could be found somewhere in the archives but they don't want to look and don't want to waste their vote.

Common Sense and You

Sometimes when participating in the suggestions system it takes common sense to save the day. Common Sense exceptions to rules are something people should always practice because, quite frankly, the rules aren't made for every contingency, just most.

Common Sense and Dupes

Very simple common sense rules for dupes.

• Don't be an ass, it detracts from your vote
• Address ALL differences, if something in the dupe link isn't the same as the vote say why that difference is insignificant, otherwise don't vote dupe it's a waste of a vote
• If there is any difference that users can show is significant it's significant, shut up and don't push for the removal.
• Don't EVER remove the suggestion unless dupes are a significant portion of the votes, this only applys if you yourself voted Dupe or Spam.
• Scale is usually not a valid difference, unless the scale is significant_{(like the difference between 3 damage and 30)}, something that is flavor can never have a significant scale change_{(waving to 1 user instead of the 50 closest, for example)}, that's just absurd.
• A different name or item that performs the same function as a dupe is a dupe
• Know your dupes. If something has an achievement scale it is not the same as something that is based off of where you are when you activate it, it's like comparing Surgery to Combat Accuracy. This applies to flavor as well as everything else. If you can't understand that don't vote dupe.
• Don't vote dupe because someone else said it was one, check the damn link.
• Don't remove a suggestion where less than 1/5 of the users voted dupe, unless dupe votes are greater than 8.
• And finally, Dupe is a Judgment call, leave it to those who don't have questionable judgment. If you have a history of being very viewpoint oriented against something do not cycle dupes, that's just idiotic and will cause drama.

Common Sense and Keeps

Little less straight forward, sheep vote types have a way of doing that.

• Do not vote keep unless you like everything about the suggestion the way it is being implemented
• Change is a Kill, Keep/Change is you being an asshole.
• Don't be overly picky, if something is very close to how you would like it don't quibble over a very small point, vote keep.
• Justify, Justify, Justify, Justify, JUSTIFY, JUSTIFY, JUSTIFY!
• If you can't think of why not and that is the reason you are voting keep leave suggestions now, you are the cancer that is killing /wiki/.
• Think "Why should this be added", not "Why shouldn't this be added", if everything that could be added was added we would never be able to finish reading, or loading, the game page.

Common Sense and Kill

Move on down the list, Kills should actually be pretty rare as a vote cast.

• If you even think the word Overpowered you're voting in the wrong section, it's a Spam.
• If you even think the words Ridiculous, Pointless, Crap, or Spam you're voting in the wrong section, it's a Spam.
• Whatever you vote it probably belongs in Spam, 9/10 kill voters are misvoting and don't realize it and have managed to make Peer Rejected/Peer Reviewed/Undecided so full of horrendous crap that users can not pretty much justify anything they ever want or get duped for most things. It is quite literally ruining the suggestions system.
• If you think the suggestion could use a little tweaking but is basically sound and has a purpose then you vote kill.
• If you want to see a change in the suggestion for any reason other then the current version is overpowered or game breaking vote Kill.

Common Sense and Spam

You've probably come to the right section finally, most votes are misplaced and actually should be Spam votes.

• If you can think of any way in which the suggestion increases barricade strength it should be spammed. Barricades are, at least for zombies, a major game mechanic. For survivors they actually aren't all to important_{(I'll write a rant on that some time in the future)}.
• If you can think of any way in which the suggestion speeds up the revive process it should be spammed. Revives are the main game mechanic Guns don't matter, killing zombies doesn't matter, Revivifying zombies does. It's a numbers game and nothing in the game is more efficient than revives done smart, every problem with revives has been player made, almost always by the reviver.
• If you can think of any way in which the suggestion increases the power of Headshot it should be spammed. Headshot is quite literally a griefer skill, it's whole purpose is to make it harder for other players to play the game, it's been nerfed about 4 times and it's still not enough, it will never be enough until the skill is gone.
• If you can think of any way in which the suggestion speeds up healing it should be spammed. Healing has no draw back, you can search an FAK in, about 1.3 AP and heal 10-15 damage depending where you use it.
• If you can think of any way in which the suggestion strengthens guns, and I mean ANY way, it should be spammed. Guns are the most efficient items in the game, 65% hit rate, between 5-10AP worth of damage, Stored AP, Overkill XP, and headshot make every claim to the opposite either ignorance or lies.
• If you can think of any way in which the suggestion creates something like Speech, Radio, or Graffiti communication it should be spammed. It is quite literally interface spam, pointless, and will only serve to add more ways for survivors to say nothing.
• If you can not think of a part of the suggestion that has a use it should be spamed.

When to Sheep It

Now sometimes it is worth it to ignore that little voice in the back of your head telling you your an idiot, these times are very rare but do actually happen every once in a while. When you go along with the mass of people you're sheeping it.

Sheep to Keep?

If a suggestion is far weaker than you would like it to be but isn't overpowered and actually does what you want vote keep, always vote keep, horde with people on keep, convince other people to vote keep. Lots of decent ideas get removed or duped because people quarrle over 5% in accuracy or 1 xp. Kevan's not a moron, he knows what the goal of the suggestion is, he knows what people want, and contrary to popular belief he actually does read votes, if you think something is good but could use a small little tweak that doesn't affect the suggestion in any real way make that your justification.

Sheep to Kill?

If you can't think of a reason why it's overpowered or completely useless and just think x has enough things sheep to Kill, not spam. If you think a suggestion might be spam but it's not dupeable sheep to kill not spam_{(Long term goal of keeping this from ever appearing again)} and if you think the premise is good but needs a significant change to make it not suck so much sheep to Kill.

Sheep to Spam

Always.

Sheep to Dupe

Never Ever Ever sheep to dupe, dupe votes should always be based on rationality and should probably always be justified. As x in a dupe vote just shows you don't think it's a dupe, just that X is really good at manipulating your views. It's vote spam and it causes drama in the future because you're too much of a pussy to say why or how it's a dupe, odds are if you need to vote As X in a dupe vote you don't deserve to vote at all.

That's All For Now

Get off this page, begone already, what are you still doing here? I'm done.No More Yet

The End

That's All Folks.