View source for Suggestion:20080822 BARRICADE HOLES

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===20080822 BARRICADE HOLES===

[[User:Zombie Lord|Zombie Lord]] 01:52, 22 August 2008 (BST)

'''Suggestion type'''<br />
improvement

'''Suggestion scope'''<br />
Zombies, baby!

'''Suggestion description'''<br />
Survivors can get into VSB+2 or lower buildings automatically because we assume that there are holes in the cades they can slip through. This suggestion makes it possible for a Zombie to accidentally fall into one of these holes while smashing the Barricades.

Any time a Zombie attacks Barricades that are at VSB+2 or lower, there is a chance they fall into the building by accidentally stumbling through one these holes. The chance is based on the cade level:

:VSB__________: 10%
:QSB__________: 15%
:LB____________: 20%
:Secured Doors__: 25%

They would see two new types of messages if they did fall in depending on if they collapsed the Barricades or not with their attack: 

"You smash at the Barricades and it collapses as you fall into a small opening in the Barricades and find yourself inside the building."

or: "You smash at the Barricades and you fall into a small opening in the Barricades and find yourself inside the building."

Also, zombies can now attack Barricades even if only Secured Doors are present. They can never smash down the Doors, but they can still fall in on accident, getting these messages:

"You smash at the building. It rattles a bit."

or: "You smash at the building and you fall into a small opening in the building and find yourself inside." 


====Voting Section====
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'''Keep Votes'''
#'''Keep!''' - Authors Vote.--[[User:Zombie Lord|Zombie Lord]] 01:54, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#'''YES!''' - Just what the game needed! --{{User:WOOT/sig}} 03:12, 22 August 2008 (BST)

'''Kill Votes'''
#'''Kill''' - I find myself thinking of VSB entrances as low windows or cellar doors, places a Human could reach, but a zombie wouldn't be smart enough to. Even if that's not the case, There's a careful balance between realism and playability, and giving one out of ten zombies the ability to slip through VSB Cades doesn't really seem like a change for the better.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 02:01, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#:I don't know, I think its in genre to have this. In all the movies you see zombies slipping inside buildings through small holes in the cades while Survivors are frantically hammer to keep them up. This would make attacks more exciting. An with the balance thing man, you would probably not even make up for all the lost Headshot AP's zombies have to suffer.--[[User:Zombie Lord|Zombie Lord]] 02:15, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#::Headshots aren't supposed to equal out barricades. Barricades are to allow survivors to be safe while sleeping. This is as close to a Trenchy idea you can get and still be pro-zombie, [[Suggestions_Dos_and_Do_Nots#AP.2C_Inventory.2C_Skills.2C_and_Barricades|Don't screw with barricades]], and don't bypass the Talk:Suggestions page unless you're 100% sure your suggestion isn't Spamtasticly unbalanced.{{User:Techercizer/Sig}} 02:52, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#'''Strong Kill''' - [[Suggestions_Dos_and_Do_Nots#AP.2C_Inventory.2C_Skills.2C_and_Barricades|Dont mess with barricades.]]--[[User:Deathnut:deathnut|Lt.G Deathnut]]<nowiki> | </nowiki>[[User:deathnut:TheStayPuftMan|TheStayPuftMan]] 02:39, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#:[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Suggestion_talk:20080822_BARRICADE_HOLES#Dont_mess_with_cades_answer|Dont mess with cades answer]--[[User:Zombie Lord|Zombie Lord]] 03:00, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - Master of all the zombies? not a bad idea, but you percentages are way too high - [[User:Sanpedro|Sanpedro]] 02:44, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#:How about 5%/10%/15%/20%? Oh and LB counts for both Lightly and Loosely.--[[User:Zombie Lord|Zombie Lord]] 03:08, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - I think the idiots that are using the don't mess with cades argument are ill informed about pretty much the whole game, but they always do this and have shown a massive penchant for bias in past votes because they think zombies shouldn't be able to do anything and don't know how to do what they can do. Ignoring that<sub>(I'm just tired of the people who can't think outside of the barricade or play the game without nigh invulnerability)</sub> I don't think this will change anything and will just result in more easy cannon fodder by saving survivors the AP of having to deal with the horde or search for zombies to xp farm, they don't need they're already ridiculous easy of experience gain buffed.--<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev/OmegaMap|maps?!]]</font></sup></small> 03:14, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#: Thanks man, even thought you killed my thing, you're explanation is at least not sheepy. Rock on, brother.--[[User:Zombie Lord|Zombie Lord]] 03:17, 22 August 2008 (BST) 
#'''Kill''' - Trying to argue Urban Dead Logic is close to impossible. According to the game, the barricades are outside as the door is always the last obstacle. Anyways, this suggestion overpowered, any percentage to completely bypass barricades is too much. During a siege (yes there are sieges on VS buildings that aren't entry points), you'll have a bunch of zombies popping in that can begin dismantling the barricades from the inside. However, there is real world logic so I'm not voting spam.--{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 03:56, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#:Yeah you're probably right on the logic thing lol. Anyway thanks for your constructive input. Any idea on what % might be more acceptable? 5%/10%/15%/20% still too much?--[[User:Zombie Lord|Zombie Lord]] 04:05, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#::At the very least, there could be a percentage to pop through the 'cades on loosely/lightly barricades only. Too many times have I brought barricades down only to have them brought up a single level before I could enter. Annoying for any zombie. :/ --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 04:12, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#'''Kill'''- First of all, two or three organized zombies working together can bring down cades, storm inside and wreck the place in no time, so this skill is not needed at all. Hell, I have even brought down the cades, ran out of AP and had another zombie come along later nad finish the job. Secondly, I always assumed that the survivors would have to climb over objects up a few feet and then enter on VSB. When a building is over caded then the survivors have to enter through the roof or a high window with Free Running. I wouldn't imagine it possible for a zombie to be able to climb up and position itself so that it could fall through the cades, no matter what level they cades are at. Also, it makes any building potentially unsafe if not manned at all times by a logged in human, which is unfair, and it gives the zombies an unfair upper hand when attacking in large hordes.--{{User:SirArgo/Signature}} 04:13, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#'''Kill'''- Definitely need to put a kill down for this, not because of the spirit of the suggestion, but for the frequency of being able to find a hole.  First of all all of the percentages are too high, at most there should only be a 5% chance that a zombie can get through a hole at LB, with probably a .5% to .25% chance of getting through at VSB.  The reason why is: 25% is way too high; it makes the barricades only useful as a small deterrent seeing as how 1 in every 4 hits means finding a hole (at 25%).  While a 1 in every 20 chance provides a benefit, yes, but does not see nearly the number of finds and still allows the barricade to be what it is supposed to be, a barricade.--[[User:BoboKilledMe|<span style="color: Gray">BKM</span>]] 05:22, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#'''Kill''' - Just sort of negates to point of feeling safe behind a barricade, you know? The one advantage the survivors have against the zombies, besides equipment, is the ability to create barricades. Leave them as they are.

'''Spam/Dupe Votes'''
#'''Spam''' - [[Suggestions_Dos_and_Do_Nots#AP.2C_Inventory.2C_Skills.2C_and_Barricades|Leave barricades alone.]] And survivors can get into a VSB+2 building since they can climb a bit and go into a window; at HB and higher, even the windows are blocked, and thus they cannot run into it from the outside. --[[User:Aeon17x|Aeon17x]] 02:01, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#:Come on, this is a rationalization. Survivors get in with 1 AP. How does that differ from just walking in? No extra effort for all this "climbing". Even if you say Survivors are "moving parts of the Barricades aside" its still just 1 AP. Gotta be a easy to enter hole that a zombie could stumble onto on accident. See I can rationalize too. Either way, this should be a Kill vote, not Spam vote.--[[User:Zombie Lord|Zombie Lord]] 02:09, 22 August 2008 (BST) 
#::It's not rational at all. You're proposing that zombies bypass the barricades entirely at 10% chance when VSB, while they take down *one* level of barricade at only 25% chance tops (maxed claws). They won't even have to remove two-three levels of barricade before they slip in "by accident" (and you don't even have to have Memories of Life!), and as such this suggestion is just ridiculous. --[[User:Aeon17x|Aeon17x]] 02:20, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#:::<small>Only two levels of replies are allowed, take it to the Talk page if you want to discuss it further. --[[User:Aeon17x|Aeon17x]] 02:31, 22 August 2008 (BST)</small>
#'''Spam''' - Zombies don't just "fall through holes"... And, in pactice this is actually a big zombie ''nerf''. When a zombie breaks down the barricades normally, he has opened the doors for all his zethren to come in... Which has many big advantages -- most of which should be pretty obvious... But here, all you get is inside -- alone -- and all you're gonna get now is a couple of bites and headshot... Feeding Groan is totally castrated by this suggestion... Team play is totally castrated by this suggestion. Etc. etc. etc. Spam-o-fucking-licious. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 03:28, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#:You must have never watched a Zombie movie. They fall through holes in the Barricades and windows all the time. Feeding Groan and Team Play are not "castrated" by this, as usual you're ridiculously exaggerating.--[[User:Zombie Lord|Zombie Lord]] 03:33, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#::I don't actually believe that Zombie Lord even plays a zombie in Urban Dead. It sure doesn't look like it, from the demonstrated ignorance of actual zombie play and gaming mechanics... No, it looks to me more like he is some fort-dwelling, katana-sharpening trencher who's trying to give zombie players a bad name... Hmph. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 05:12, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#'''Spam'''- and I quote "Spam-o-fucking-licious" --[[User:Fo sizzle|Fo sizzle]] 04:44, 22 August 2008 (BST)
#'''Spam''' - as Wan. Don't discourage zombie co-operation. --[[User:Bob_Fortune|Bob Fortune]] <sup>[[Red Rum|RR]]</sup> 06:55, 22 August 2008 (BST)



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