View source for Suggestion:20080314 Don’t Free Run into Ruined Buildings 1.1

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===20080314 Don’t Free Run into Ruined Buildings 1.1===
[[User:Kolechovski|Kolechovski]] 17:50, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 

'''Suggestion type'''<br />
Mechanic change
'''Suggestion scope'''<br />
Free Running to/from ruins
'''Suggestion description'''<br />
SUMMARY OF CHANGES IN GAME TERMS

1.	Anyone attempting to Free Run to a ruined building automatically heads to street-level first (no chance to receive damage due to normal exit strategies).
2.	The chance to fall and get hurt is now shifted to Free Running FROM ruined buildings.

THE NITTY-GRITTY DETAILS/REASONS

Although I started on the issue, I’ve modified it a bit now to still allow the update to be used in a new form, still make ruins something to note, stop forced stupidity, and add believability.  The original suggestion can be found here:

http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Suggestion:20080215_Don%E2%80%99t_Free_Run_into_ruined_buildings

First, remember that regardless of barricade levels, anyone can leave a building at any time by clicking on an adjacent block.  They are presumed to leave by upper windows, fire escapes, fire doors, or a combination (even the FAQs mention this).  Also, as seen in this picture, …

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=running2lg0.png

…When leaving a building by such methods, it seems to reinforce the use of these special leaving techniques (given the untouched snow, rather than what you’d get exiting a building through front doors and walking over to the block, which would leave trails of prints behind you).  This method of leaving is available to anyone, and it does not cause harm (which seems to indicate that if leaving by upper windows, there’s some type of fire escape to climb down).

Free Runners can avoid the streets when there’s a building next to them by moving directly to the building (either by Parkour moves, climbing across connecting wires, other methods, or combinations).  They can still move onto empty streets just as easily (and uninjured, which seems to mean that they don’t actually try a flying leap to them).  But with the latest ruin update, they are still forced to try to enter through the upper windows of the next building, even well-knowing they can’t enter and may get hurt doing so.  So, the first suggestion is that when moving towards a ruined building (which you see is ruined and know you won’t make it to before moving to it), you automatically move to street level, just like an empty street.  Text can explain it as, “Seeing a collapsed wall blocking your route, you head onto the streets to reach that building.”

“But what about the falling and getting hurt update?” you ask?  Simple.  Instead of having survivors being forced to behave stupidly by trying to get to the upper windows of ruined buildings, have the chance to fall be applied to trying to Free Run FROM ruined buildings.  Now there’s the common sense/believability, game change, ruin beef, all rolled into one.  And that stops the complaints of ruined buildings being easy-to-see entry points.  Now you’d face a real-life situation moving from a dilapidated building.  Do you try to maneuver around on crumbling windowsills to save time (and risk slipping and falling), or do you play it safe and exit to the streets normally before walking along?

This suggestion allows common sense to be used, the recent update of falling/injuring to be preserved, beefs ruins a bit (more people Free Run from ruins than to them), and adds believability, all without upsetting the balance of the game.


====Voting Section====
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'''Keep Votes'''
#'''Keep''' - Wow.  I REALLY don't like this.  But it makes sense. - '''[[User:Headshot Hal|<font color=navy>Headshot Hal]] '''<sup>[[User_Talk:Headshot Hal|Talk]] </sup></font color> 17:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#<strike>'''As Headshot Hal''' - --{{User:WOOT/sig}} 18:04, 14 March 2008 (UTC)</strike> Changed Vote--{{User:WOOT/sig}} 17:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' - I like it.--[[User:Studoku|Studoku]] 22:13, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#:Re:  I think you need to sign your votes.  You can do so by clicking at the end of you comment, then clicking the squiggly icon at the top, second from the right.--[[User:Kolechovski|Kolechovski]] 18:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#::'''ReRe'''- I know, I keep forgetting.--[[User:Studoku|Studoku]] 22:13, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Author Keep''' - Because it makes sense, and it should be more pleasing to both sides.  BTW, do the paragraphs look smashed together/numbers non-aligned to you guys?--[[User:Kolechovski|Kolechovski]] 18:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' Right now ruins illogically hurt people with free running, but leave people without it alone. That makes no sense. This fixes that gap in logic, and instead makes it risky to use a ruin to your advantage. Not only logical but a better game mechanic too. --[[User:Jon Pyre|Jon Pyre]] 18:31, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' - fixes the illogic of "always on" Free Running, and also buffs ruins a bit.  Great idea, though maybe worth holding on until the game is more stable / balanced population wise.  Also easy to justify flavor wise- something along the lines of damaged buildings falling into greater disrepair / zombies demolishing them more completley, so survivors being more cautious about entry and having trouble using free running inside them.  {{User:Swiers/Sig}} 20:18, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' --{{User:Hhal/Sig}} 21:49, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' - the text of the suggestion is my justification. --<span style="font-size:90%">[[User:Funt Solo|Funt Solo]]</span> <sup style="font-size:70%">[[Mod_Conspiracy|QT]]</sup> [[Image:Scotland flag.JPG|18px]] 22:24, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''weak keep''' - as Headshot Hal --[[User:Duke Garland|<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>]] [[LCD|<nowiki>[</nowiki>]][[User talk:Duke Garland|talk]][[Signature Race|<nowiki>]</nowiki>]] 22:26, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Weak Keep''' -makes sense, but I don't like it.--{{:User:Airborne88/sig}} 22:42, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' - A huge improvement. - [[User:Grant|Grant]] ([[User talk:Grant|talk]]) 22:43, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' - Whine. Bitch. Whine. Shut up. --[[User:BoboTalkClown|BoboTalkClown]] 22:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Begrudging keep''' - ''"Now you’d face a real-life situation moving from a dilapidated building. Do you try to maneuver around on crumbling windowsills to save time (and risk slipping and falling), or do you play it safe and exit to the streets normally before walking along?"'' 'Nuff said. --[[User:WanYao|WanYao]] 23:12, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Bravo''' - Well done. - [[User:Pardus|Pardus]] 00:29, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' - I like it, good job.--[[User:Jamie Cantwell3|Jamie Cantwell3]] 03:05, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''keep''' - a subtle and much needed nerf to freerunning while at the same time preserving logic and not screwing with zeds! winner all round ;) --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 10:47, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' – As it is, the ruined building falling damage mechanic really doesn't matter in the slightest – it's just a random effect that barely scratches you. With this change, one would have to consider more carefully whether to use a ruined building as an entry point or not. Good stuff. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 10:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' – As Funt. --[[User:Carnexhat|Carnexhat]] 13:18, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' as Swiers --{{User:Frozen_Flame/sig}} 14:42, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' - Logic-fix. --{{User:Midianian/Sig}} 15:16, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' - Not just a logic fix but shifts the falling to a place where it becomes a strategic decision rather than a movement nuisance.  You have to step into a ruins since you can't freerun in so it won't happen accidentally anymore but to people who are specifically trying to use ruins as entry points.  --[[User:Riseabove|Riseabove]] 21:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' - Logic and strategy, although some of the people on the kill side have a point I think this makes much more sense than the current setup. --[[User:Some1neelse|Some1neelse]] 15:44, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Keep''' - This makes more sense to me than the current setup. --[[User:Diano|Diano]] 23:50, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


'''Kill Votes'''
#'''Kill''' - Would be less realistic, not more.  If you take a running leap ''from'' the roof of a ruined building you should know which bits of the roof are damaged and avoid them.  But you can't so easily see the condition of the section of roof that you will land on as it's further away.  Similar if you climb along wires (you can see if the bracket your end is loose etc.)  I'd rather have a skill (under Free Running) that lets you see if a next-door building is ruined. --[[User:Explodey|Explodey]] 18:36, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#:  Re:  But you can already see that the building is ruined before you even step outside, so you know before you even try to Free Run that it ain't never not gonna happen.--[[User:Kolechovski|Kolechovski]] 18:08, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
#:: ah, you're right.  I can see it now.  It was just my monitor settings that were messed up. I wonder how many times I've needlessly attempted to free-run into a ruined building due to being unaware of that.  So ignore that part of my comment. [[User:Explodey|Explodey]] 20:55, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
#Me no likey the party where you get a slight chance of damage for freerunning out of a ruin building.  Besides, it would be overpowered in that way.  Many revive points happened to be indoor revive points, which are usually ruined.  You're just asking survivors to use an extra AP to exit the building from the door (if they don't want to get hurt) as well as an addition 2-5 AP looking for a freakin' entry point. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 19:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#:Re:  The chance of getting injured isn't that huge.  Besides, in such a situation as using indoor revive points, if you're in a suburb without tons of ruins (and if you are, get the hell out), someone else gets XP for healing you.  But it does cost a few AP if you fall (or exit to prevent HP loss), but zombies have to go through several APs trying to ruin in the first place.--[[User:Kolechovski|Kolechovski]] 20:04, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#::I know the damage chance isn't that big.  But there are some people out there who will really get pissed off trying to freerun into a EHB building, but continuously fail because of bad luck. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 20:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#:::{{s|1=You can Free Run into EHB buildings just fine.  You just can't Free Run into ruined EHB buildings (which is already the case).  There would also be text to explain why you were forced to street level, just like there is now.  As for the chances of repeated failures Free Running from those, with such low odds, I doubt they could really accumulate that many falls.  You can discuss the chances on the talk page if you'd like.--[[User:Kolechovski|Kolechovski]] 18:16, 18 March 2008 (UTC)}} <small>One RE per vote. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 22:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)</small>
#'''Kill''' - Your balance is off. This would effectively hamstring freerunning because there are SO MANY ruined buildings.  With your suggest in place, buildings would have to be retaken in pairs, with one as an entry point.  Otherwise, the lone building would have to maintain VS++, which is basically impossible in a hostile suburb with no other survivors. --[[User:Heretic144|Heretic144]] 22:21, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
#:  Re:  I didn't think the chance of falling was that high, nor do I see people falling over and over again to that extent, even if the RNG is being mean to them.  If you think the current chance of falling is too rough with this combination, we could assess this further on the talk pages and maybe modify and resubmit this if necessary.  I don't want it to be like a common failure, as I'm well aware that would screw survivors.  Rather, I'm thinking with the rates, that this would just be an occasional inconvienience.--[[User:Kolechovski|Kolechovski]] 18:06, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Kill''' - I realize I'm in the minority on this one, but I liked your first draft better. Heretic144 explained it perfectly.--<font face="Impact">[[User:Dr Doom86|<span style="color:DarkSlateGray">Dr Doom86</span>]]</font><sup>[[Image:Phoenix2.gif|15px]] [[User_talk:Dr Doom86|<span style="color:DarkSlateGray">T</span>]] [[Phoenix Security Services|<span style="color:DarkSlateGray">PSS</span>]]</sup> 08:21, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Kill''' - As Explodey and Heretic144 {{User:Devolution Studios/sig}} 13:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Kill''' - After re-evaluating the suggestion I think I have to go with Heretic on this one, nerfs harmans to much (I know! who woulda thought that I would ever say that!)--{{User:WOOT/sig}} 17:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Kill''' - sorry, I want to like this one, but I agree with Heretic--{{User:Rictor_Stilwell/sig}} 17:25, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Kill''' - Have you ever considered making the game fair for zombies? --[[User:The Gecko PKer|The Gecko PKer]] 17:51, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
#:  Re:  Do you realize the effects of this?  This would help the zombie side a bit, help the survivor side as well, but still overall shift towards the zombies (more falls occur).  This kinda makes it fairer and more believable for everyone.--[[User:Kolechovski|Kolechovski]] 18:02, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Kill''' - As Heretic. --[[User:Macampos|Private Mark]] 00:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Kill''' - As Heretic. --{{User:Lh778/sig}} 11:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Kill''' - This makes little sense.  Freerunning into a building that has had havoc wreaked upon it should make you slip and should damage you.  Coming out of one, however, should not. Being inside a building would show you that some areas would be safe and would therefore be safe to run off of. Also would nerf humans, which is not that good of an idea right now. --[[User:Kingofallpie|Kingofallpie]] 15:49, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
#'''Kill''' - Ugh, survivors already have enough advantages! "OMG! We're all goonnna diezorz cuase da zombie has scent death!!!!!!!!!" is something I here alot or things like that. A human can kill a zombie in seven action points, when it's not injured with a shotgun. It takes about seven action points of searching to get five shotgun shells. --[[User:The Gecko PKer|The Gecko PKer]] 22:47, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

'''Spam/Dupe Votes'''


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