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If you have anything you'd like to add to one of these conversations, then go to my {{../snazzylink|User talk: Aichon|talk page}}, reference the relevant conversation from here, and post your comments there. This page should not be edited by others. These are all messages I've filed away. They shouldn't be changed or added to, since the contexts of the situations have been lost, forgotten, or could simply be remembered differently by the involved parties. I'd prefer to start any of these conversations fresh, if they must come up again.
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==Suburb Groups Master==
Hey when you get a moment, would you mind looking at something for me? [[User:Vapor/sandbox/SuburbGroupsMaster|I'm trying to create a Master Page of groups listed by suburb.]] I'm using a formatter style template ({{tl|SuburbGroupsM}}) but for some reason the formatter template isn't being used. I've double-checked that its coded correctly but it just isn't passing through the right template. I'm probably missing something simple. Mind taking a look? This will hopefully help with GSGM eventually. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>16:22, 17 January 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:unless I'm missing something you aren't actually calling it anywhere, template= is an unused variable. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 20:37, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
::I know I am not losing my mind. I'm trying to do something similar to {{tl|TrpsStatus/Formatter}}. It takes the variables of a template and uses it in a different format (I call them formatter templates for that reason). It's the difference between {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{User:DangerReport/The Blackmore Building}}</nowiki>}} and {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{User:DangerReport/The Blackmore Building|template=TrpsStatus/Formatter}}</nowiki>}} 

::one produces:
{{User:DangerReport/The Blackmore Building}}
::While the other produces: 
{{User:DangerReport/The Blackmore Building|template=TrpsStatus/Formatter}}

::For the life of me, I can't get my formatter template to do the same. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>20:52, 17 January 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::I'm a bit rusty, but going from what Karek said, it does indeed look like an unused variable. Take a look at the code for the [[User:DangerReport/The Blackmore Building]] page you cited and you'll see that it takes a variable named {{CodeInline|template}} that has a default value of {{CodeInline|BuildingStatus}} right at the top. The code then includes a page with whatever name was provided by that variable. The {{CodeInline|<nowiki>template=</nowiki>}} is not some sort of keyword like {{CodeInline|<nowiki>link=</nowiki>}} is. It's just a variable, and it could have been {{CodeInline|<nowiki>x=</nowiki>}} or anything else instead, had Rooster or whoever made the DangerReport stuff felt like using a different name.

:::As such, for your stuff to work, you'll need to add a {{CodeInline|template}} variable to [[Template:Dakerstown Groups|Dakerstown Groups]] and all of those other group pages, then set it up to function similarly to how you see it functioning in [[User:DangerReport/The Blackmore Building]]. You can find other examples of this sort of thing being used with the barricade plans too (small vs. large templates based on the value of the variable passed in). The underlying assumption is that the page with the data is JUST data, and that the formatting is provided by an external template, but those suburb group listings were not designed that way, so you'd have to redo them from the ground up. All 100 of them for Malton, plus the other two cities. Unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible, since I am rusty. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:44, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
::::See I knew it was something simple I missed. *cough* Thank both of you. It may end up being worth it in the end to make the changes necessary to pull it off. I basically want to create a page which lists every group that has listed themselves on a burb groups template. From there, a little data manipulation and we'd have a list of every suburb a group is list in, sorted by group name. Should make gsgm easier when we do it next. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>00:22, 18 January 2012 (UTC)</sub>


==WB==
Can't tempt you? --[[User:Rosslessness|Ross<sup>less</sup>ness]]  20:09, 13 April 2012 (BST)
:Thanks for the welcome, and I've been away long enough that I need a bit of time to re-acclimate. Give me a month or two and we can talk about it some more. In the meantime, I'll be doing some this-and-that stuff to see if I feel like I'm up for it still. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:20, 13 April 2012 (BST)
::Perhaps reopening the Historical Group Voting policy you started a couple years back might whet you whistle. I'd be down for helping you hammer some of it out. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>23:59, 13 April 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::Or stop by [[UDWiki:Project Timeline]]. I could use someone to help me get it kickstarted. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>00:04, 14 April 2012 (UTC)</sub>
::::Or stop what you're doing and run away now! While you still can! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 00:11, 14 April 2012 (BST)
:::::I already left once. The game has less hold over me now. I have no doubt that I could pick up and leave in a hurry if I wanted to. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:23, 14 April 2012 (BST)
::::I'm not sure sure I'd be any help on the timeline. Plus, I mostly check the wiki from work these days, and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing a wiki project on company time. A few minutes to check in here or there is one thing, but this would be something else. And my off-work time is already being fought over by a number of other things. As for the policy, the discussion from my withdrawn policy turned into [[UDWiki:Administration/Policy_Discussion/Historical_Voting_Time_Limit|a different policy that was approved]] already. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:23, 14 April 2012 (BST)
:::::I liked the direction your policy was headed more than where it ended up. It should have been deregulated and instead, more regulations were added. I suppose it'll always be one of those things I always shake my fist at the wiki over {{grr}}. Coincidentally, I have the opposite problem as you. I can't edit the wiki on work time at all and so its almost all done in between family time at home or right before bed. So I understand your reluctance to get into a project. Maybe someone's schedule will open up who will be willing to help. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>01:57, 14 April 2012 (UTC)</sub>
[[Image:Emot-argh.gif|300px]] 
:{{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 00:38, 14 April 2012 (BST)
::I've been around off-and-on for years, so I figure nothing has really changed. I just finally decided to take down the inactive notice since I'm going to try and be around a bit more. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:47, 14 April 2012 (BST)
:::Create some sort of vector-based version of old angry-wanker up there, because he needs to be appreciated at vast scales. Also create me some sort of sandwich. (>")> {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 00:50, 14 April 2012 (BST)
::::Yeaaaaaah...not happenin'. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:11, 14 April 2012 (BST)
:::::I still love you, even if I am disappointed. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 01:39, 14 April 2012 (BST)
::::::<3 you too, but what's with you and DDR not being sysops? Are you feeling okay? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:41, 14 April 2012 (BST)
:::::::It's totally all Boxy's fault. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 01:46, 14 April 2012 (BST)
::::::::I think I did DDR, actually. Or maybe I just did Thad? {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 07:25, 16 April 2012 (BST)
:::::::::Everyone's done me at one point or another. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 12:16, 16 April 2012 (BST)
::::::::::Sexual. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 17:39, 16 April 2012 (BST)
:::::::::::To be fair, I never did DDR, but I did [[User:Misanthropy/Sandbox15#DanceDanceRevolution|do his girlfriend]] according to him. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:50, 16 April 2012 (BST)
::::::::::::i have never even thought about DDR. bleh.--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>19:21, 16 April 2012 </small>
:::::::::::::The real question is who ''have'' you thought about?--[[User:Shortround|<span style="color:Black">Short</span>]][[User talk:Shortround|<span style="color: Black">round</span>]] }.{ [[Special:Contributions/Shortround|<span style="color:Black">My Contributions</span>]] 22:54, 16 April 2012 (BST)
::::::::::::::fiffy. and only fiffy --{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>01:22, 17 April 2012 </small>
:::::::::::::::Then what the fuck were we, man? WHAT THE FUCK WERE WE {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 04:38, 17 April 2012 (BST)
::::::::::::::::drunk?--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>08:42, 17 April 2012 </small>
:::::::::::::::::The '''real''' question is what the hell does “sodomized” even mean these days? {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 06:07, 18 April 2012 (BST)
::::::::::::::::::Let me show you. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 16:20, 18 April 2012 (BST)
:::::::::::::::::::well? pictures or it didn't happen!--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>02:14, 23 April 2012 </small>


==Tradition==
Gotta keep to the Axe Hack tradition.  You know the drill.  Every page without my sig gets my sig with a topic header that is pretty much saying, "+1 here". :P --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 06:37, 14 April 2012 (BST)
:You could at least try to frame it as a token, pithy comment on an existing section. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:40, 14 April 2012 (BST)
::But then I wouldn't have my own header. :P --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 07:14, 14 April 2012 (BST)


== Rock on dude! ==
Thanks for all the help on the wiki man. You're one righteous dude. --[[User:TheBardofOld|TheBardofOld]] 04:42, 16 April 2012 (BST)
:Thanks! Was there anything in particular that prompted this? I'm afraid I don't recall specifically having helped you anytime recently. I noticed you were thanking certain current and former sysops, so I didn't know if we had done something specific that you found helpful. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:19, 16 April 2012 (BST)
::Just thanking you on an overall basis. The world could use more "thank yous" and the wiki is no exception. --[[User:TheBardofOld|TheBardofOld]] 05:47, 16 April 2012 (BST)


==Historic Groups and Suburb Listings==
I don't see how my reason was invalid.  The group I removed off Tapton's listing, I do not see anything in the historical groups archives, not even in the pre-voting era.  I also see nothing in the suburb group listing guidelines that indicates what a "historic" group is, and thus, it seemed best to assume that anything under Historic Groups should be just that. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 18:55, 21 April 2012 (BST)
:That's a decent assumption, but it's incorrect because that section isn't linked to Historic Group voting in any way. Suburb historic group listings are their own, separate thing. As I said, if you want to remove them "just because", you're welcome to do so since anyone can add or remove any group from there, but the majority of the groups listed in that section never went through Historical Group voting, nor should they have had to, since the intent of that section is to recognize groups that were historic ''to the suburb'', as opposed to within the context of Malton as a whole. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:22, 21 April 2012 (BST)


==NecroTechnicolor==
I was needing a leader for my self-group.  I wondered if I might be able to talk you into it?  You don't have to do anything or be in the group, actually you probably wouldn't meet the qualification of being my alt anyways.  So, any chance of making this happen?  I'll add a disclaimer that you have nothing to do with the group and aren't responsible for the actions, etc.  --[[Image:Kirsty_Cotton_Header.png|60px|Open the Box|link=User:Kirsty_cotton]] <sub>[[Organization_XIII|<span style="color: grey">Org XIII</span>]]</sub> <sup>[[User:Kirsty_cotton/alts|<span style="color: blue">Alts</span>]]</sup> 23:33, 15 June 2012 (BST)
:So, it's like an honorary leader position? Or is it more of just being a leader without being a group member? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:29, 16 June 2012 (BST)
::Honorary.  Unless you just really want to boss me around. :P --[[Image:Kirsty_Cotton_Header.png|60px|Open the Box|link=User:Kirsty_cotton]] <sub>[[Organization_XIII|<span style="color: grey">Org XIII</span>]]</sub> <sup>[[User:Kirsty_cotton/alts|<span style="color: blue">Alts</span>]]</sup> 02:10, 16 June 2012 (BST)
:::I somehow imagine there will be handcuffs, leather, and a whip involved in this... <_< --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 02:40, 16 June 2012 (BST)
:::So long as there's no zerging, I'm down for it. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:21, 16 June 2012 (BST)
::::I can assure you there will be no zerging.  I will personally vouch for all members. --[[Image:Kirsty_Cotton_Header.png|60px|Open the Box|link=User:Kirsty_cotton]] <sub>[[Organization_XIII|<span style="color: grey">Org XIII</span>]]</sub> <sup>[[User:Kirsty_cotton/alts|<span style="color: blue">Alts</span>]]</sup> 04:34, 16 June 2012 (BST)


== whyy ==
Can you summarise in 25 words or less why new Mozilla no longer recognises moz-border codes? Changed to... webkit (I think it is)? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 16:00, 26 June 2012 (BST)
:Yes, I can summarize it in 25 words or less. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 16:13, 26 June 2012 (BST)
::Anyway, I assume you're talking about moz-border-radius and the like. The reason why is that all of the prefix CSS properties (i.e. the ones starting with moz, webkit, or the like) are meant to eventually be replaced by a CSS standard equivalent, rather than staying proprietary forever. The border-radius property has been a standard for a long time, so [https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/border-radius#Gecko_notes moz-border-radius support was finally phased out in Firefox 13]. Assuming you were using {{tl|xbrowsercss}} all along, this wouldn't be an issue for you, since that was designed specifically for the day that this situation arose. That's also why whenever you are using a CSS property with a prefix, you should also try to find the equivalent standard property and use it as well. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 16:21, 26 June 2012 (BST)
::It's simpler than that actually. Coder's are lazy and developers intentionally forgot what the prefixes were originally for. [http://www.webmonkey.com/2012/02/web-developers-sound-off-on-webkit-prefixes/ This], however, is a really good read on the subject. I may add more links in the future. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 06:37, 27 June 2012 (BST)
:::Karek's was shorter he wins. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 11:51, 28 June 2012 (BST)
::::Well fine. You can ask him for help next time. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:00, 28 June 2012 (BST)
::::Aichon's had better advice. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 03:20, 29 June 2012 (BST)
:::::You always know just what to say to make me feel better. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:29, 29 June 2012 (BST)


== thanks for the help ==
Hi there Aichon - thanks for the help with the Locator. I was away for a couple of days, and couldn't remember my passwords, since most of them are automatically stored in Firefox. :) --[[User:FLZombie|FLZombie]] 00:42, 27 June 2012 (BST)
:No prob. I was doing some scouting for BLF anyway and figured I'd update it so INQ had the info too, and I figured you probably wouldn't mind, given our talks in the past. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:11, 27 June 2012 (BST)


== Function Calls ==
This is just my asking your opinion, but do you think (performance wise) it is better to have the function call before or after the called function? --[[User:Klexur|Klexur]] 17:14, 27 June 2012 (BST)
:I don't think it should matter, honestly. The entire file needs to be loaded before it will start executing, so it'll know where both are already, and most of the modern browsers are compiling the code anyway (using JIT or other technologies), further reducing any potential differences in runtime. I'd view it more as a question of code readability rather than efficiency. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 17:17, 27 June 2012 (BST)


== Wiki design ==
You, sir, have mad wiki skills. I peaked at your wiki code for some design ideas, and searched around on your talk page to see if this had been previously addressed. I just wanted to officially thank you for the help. =] --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 05:51, 2 July 2012 (BST)
:Thanks, and I'm glad you got some use out of it. I've actually forgotten quite a bit of what I once knew, since I took a year off from the game and the wiki, but most of it is slowly coming back to me. [[User:The Rooster|Rooster]] was a real genius, if you ask me, but I have had a time or two where I did something neat. Have you seen my [[User:Aichon/snazzylink|snazzylink]] and [[User:Aichon/snazzylinke|snazzylinke]] templates yet? You might find them of interest. And I'm definitely looking forward to your design as you continually refine it. I noticed you started personalizing your space in earnest earlier, and you have me curious how all it will eventually turn out, since it looks pretty awesome already. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:19, 2 July 2012 (BST)
::I'm not sure I understand what your [[User:Aichon/snazzylink|snazzylink]] is doing... --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 05:14, 4 July 2012 (BST)
:::Check my main user page for examples of how I use them. They're basically templates used to format all links according to whatever style I want to maintain. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:18, 4 July 2012 (BST)
::::Oh, also, snazzylink is smart enough to recognize if you're on the page that's linked, and then will skip applying the fancy styles in that case, just like what happens with regular wiki links, rather than applying the style. Click through the archive links at the top of this page for an example of that in action, or go to the [[SoC]]'s pages and click through them to see something else I did that basically stole the logic from snazzylink (except that one's technically even smarter, since it lets you apply a secondary style if you're on the actual page). {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 16:11, 11 July 2012 (BST)


==Slashfic==
I must admit, it's strange the way an individual's online persona evolves. But I won't stand against public opinion. --[[User:Rosslessness|Ross]]<sup>[[User:Rosslessness/Battle of Tebbett|less]]</sup>[[User:Rosslessness|ness]]  11:14, 8 July 2012 (BST)
:It's one thing to not stand in the way. It's another to encourage and invite it. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:57, 10 July 2012 (BST)


== UD Profile Expander ==
Need confirmation, but Barrista seems to break its ability to create a table within the gt div. --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 12:10, 11 July 2012 (BST)
:That sounds likely, given that Barrista does remove that particular div. I've never used UD Profile Expander, however, so I can't say for sure. As I recall, its functionality relies on functions that are considered insecure in some browsers, thus preventing it from working at all in them.
:If you're thinking of working on UDPE, what are your suggestions or thoughts? Personally, even though it is the lazy way for me, I think it would be best if UDPE didn't rely on the gt div being there, and instead just added a new div of its own underneath the minimap, similar to what something like UDMap does.
:Also, I've been thinking for a few years that it might not be a bad idea to make a library script that would inject functions into the page's head, thus enabling all of the other scripts to access that functionality (pretty sure we can do that...). For instance, rather than having everyone and their mother implement a function to grab the barricade level, just implement it in the library and let anyone else call GetBarricadeLevel or something like that. Barrista was actually designed with the idea that I would be doing this, but I ended up being lazy and just rolling the early functionality for the library into Barrista, rather than breaking it out, which is why Barrista's code is broken into two halves. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:40, 11 July 2012 (BST)
::I wasn't really planning on messing with it since I won't be using it, I was mostly curious if you were aware of any problems. The idea of making globally accessible functions sounds beneficial to any future scripts, but it makes me wonder how plausible it would be. You and I might get some immediate use out of it since we seem to be the most active developers, but how often are scripts actually made for UD? --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 18:15, 11 July 2012 (BST)
:::Not often, but it might make things easier for other people to get started, and it'd also mean less code duplicating the same work, which means better efficiency. We could cache the results after they're retrieved, meaning that we would keep from doing the work over and over again, and since it'd all be done prior to any other scripts, we could fix a load of inter-script issues, such as what happens if one script tries to grab data from an element that gets modified/removed by another. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:24, 11 July 2012 (BST)
::::Sounds complicated and a fair amount of work. =P Although, if you want to actually start this project (after these years of not doing it yet) I wouldn't mind helping. --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 18:38, 11 July 2012 (BST)
:::::Nah, it shouldn't be much work once we get the basics functional. After that, it's just a matter of putting things we use regularly in there, rather than in our own code. And the caching stuff is simpler than it sounds, since it's basically just one if statement. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:45, 11 July 2012 (BST)
::::::I don't use Barrista and Profile Expander is borked for me. Last time that happened, it was changes to the game. Wonder if there was some change recently other than foil hats. Hope you guys can figure it out. Profile Expander is one of my favorite scripts. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>19:09, 11 July 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::::::Did it break around the time that safehouses were added? That update affected the code around that part of the page. Also, there was another small game update right around that time that made a few slight modifications to the code and broke some of the scripts. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:30, 11 July 2012 (BST)
::::::::Yes, that's when it broke. Almost exactly two years ago. See [[User_talk:Haliphax#UD Profile Expander]] ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>20:52, 11 July 2012 (UTC)</sub>


== UDMap ==
I hope I'm not a bother, but I noticed something. On line 226 or so is {{CodeInline|wiki.urbandead.com/index/}} which needs to be {{CodeInline|wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/}} for the links to work now. --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 06:01, 19 July 2012 (BST)
:Hmm. I guess that redirect broke with the wiki update a few months back, since that used to work, I know. Nice find. Thanks for not only pointing out the issue, but also doing the legwork on the fix for me! :D {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:25, 19 July 2012 (BST)
::No problem. When I found that it wasn't working I didn't just want to say "Hey, this is broken." I wanted to look into it. =P --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 07:11, 19 July 2012 (BST)
:::Yeah, I saw that you had been editing it too, based on one of your dumbwits. :P Anyway, I should have the change posted in a sec. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 07:23, 19 July 2012 (BST)


== Feedback ==
Hi,
I hate bothering you (especially after all the help with the map earlier today), but I was wondering if you could give me some feedback on my profile and userpages?
I've been messing around with templates, pages, lay-outs, etc for 2 days now and I'm wondering what else is possible? :) [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 02:13, 1 August 2012 (BST)
:Truth be told, I actually suck at giving this sort of advice, since while I know the technical stuff pretty well, design is something that's MUCH harder for me (and I'd put forward that I'm not very good at design either). :P

:The only things coming to mind when I look at it are stylistic things (e.g. how rounded the corners are, how the items are spaced, what colors are used), and those are just a matter of taste, rather than something being necessarily better, and you know your personal style far better than I do, so that's an area I'd rather not tread. I haven't looked at the code yet, but it's always been my stance to get the idea of what it should do and what it should look like figured out first, then focus on how it's done. As far as what's possible...well...pretty much anything, so long as it doesn't involve interaction. Is there something in particular you've seen or have thought of that you'd like to do? You've already demonstrated that you pick things up quickly, so I'd be more than happy to help you out with anything you had in mind or have been considering. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:11, 1 August 2012 (BST)

::Well, your map (which I shamelessly cannibalized :P ) looks like something that could be expanded upon, but all I really did was change values and link them to my own userpages rather than Klexurs'. Problem is that I only understand about half of what each line says, if you could explain that, I'd be very grateful :) (that's fairly technical, right? ) [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 13:57, 1 August 2012 (BST)
:::Sure. So, each line in smallmap looks roughly like this:
<code><nowiki><td style="background-color:{{User:Peralta/{{{00|bg}}}color}};border:1px solid {{User:Peralta/bg2color}};width:10%;height:10%;" title="{{if|{{{00c|}}}|{{{00c}}} is in Dakerstown|Dakerstown}}"></td></nowiki></code>

:::Basically, the {{CodeInline|td}} is creating a new cell in a row of a table (i.e. creating a new square in the grid). If you need help with that, I'd point you to [http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_tables.asp a better resource on HTML tables]. I believe you know what the {{CodeInline|style}} does, since it just tells the td how we're going to be styling it using CSS. The {{CodeInline|<nowiki>background-color:{{User:Peralta/{{{00|bg}}}color}}</nowiki>}} basically sets the background color of the grid square to User:Peralta/Xcolor, where "X" is determined by the {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{{00|bg}}}</nowiki>}} part. That part is a variable (which is why it has the three curly braces around it, rather than two), and we briefly discussed how to use it already, but the gist of it is that if you provide a value for 00, it will use it (e.g. providing it with "border" would result in User:Peralta/bordercolor), while providing it with nothing would cause it to default to "bg" (i.e. User:Peralta/bgcolor). Because you're providing it with bg, you're ''technically'' being a bit redundant (i.e. you're providing it with the value it would have defaulted to anyway), but I think it makes the code more readable, so I wouldn't recommend changing it.

:::The next major part is {{CodeInline|border:1px solid <nowiki>{{User:Peralta/bg2color}};</nowiki>}}. That just tells the grid square to have a border that's 1px wide, solid, and use the specified color. I'm guessing you already knew all of that. ;)

:::After that, it's the width and height stuff, which is pretty self-explanatory (basically, the grid squares are each 10% of the overall map's height and width), then it's the {{CodeInline|<nowiki>title="{{if|{{{00c|}}}|{{{00c}}} is in Dakerstown|Dakerstown}}"</nowiki>}} part. The title attribute is used to specify what the text should be in the tooltip when a user mouses over it. Inside of it, we can break down that {{CodeInline|if}} statement a bit. It's basically saying {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{if|1|2|3}}</nowiki>}}. The way an if-statement works is by checking to see if #1 exists. If it does, then it outputs #2. If it doesn't, then it outputs #3.

:::In this case, the #1 says {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{{00c|}}}</nowiki>}}, and, as you can see by its three curly braces, that's another variable. What it does is say that if the user provided a value for variable 00c, use it, and if they didn't, default to nothing at all (that's why it's blank after the {{CodeInline|<nowiki>|</nowiki>}}). If they provided something, then #2 will be used, and all #2 does is write "X is in Dakerstown", where X is the text they provided for variable 00c. If they provide nothing for 00c, then the default value of nothing will be used, resulting in #3 getting used, which simply outputs "Dakerstown". The result is that if they fill in those variables, the person looking at the map will get a custom tooltip when they mouse over those squares. I originally designed it that way so that people could see which of my characters were at which locations. The latest version of my map also made it so that those squares became links to my character pages, but that's a whole additional mess of code. ;)

:::Anyway, let me know if any of that was confusing. Hopefully that's detailed enough to give you an idea of what each part does, or at the very least might give you enough of an idea that you can piece together all of it from other things you already know. If not though, feel free to ask followup questions. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 17:00, 1 August 2012 (BST)

:::: That all makes perfect sense to me :) I'll try and mess around a bit with it and see what I can come up with. I guess the color code at the bottom (which informs people about what color means what) is just an independant piece of the puzzle, easy enough. [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 17:50, 1 August 2012 (BST)


==DangerReport colors?==
I'm wondering now if I could make the color and text of certain squares depend on, for instance, the status of a building in that suburb (based on the statusreports that can be found on the wiki)?  [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 17:50, 1 August 2012 (BST)
:In theory, yes, but you'd be getting into some advanced stuff then, though the code for it actually isn't too bad. For an example of something like that in action you can look at [[District NW-1#Resource Buildings]]. The individual squares are color-coded based on the status report for the individual building, with the code doing that on the district page being, for instance, {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{User:DangerReport/The Attwell Building|template=TRP Status}}</nowiki>}}.

:The reason why that works is because every single DangerReport page starts off with a line that says {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{{{{template|BuildingStatus}}}</nowiki>}}. Basically, if you simply include a DangerReport as a template, it will get output using the default template of [[Template:BuildingStatus]], but if you provide a name for the variable named "template", you can tell the DangerReport to send ''its'' variables to any other template you want. Those district pages tell it to use [[Template:TRP Status]], for instance.

:What you should be able to do is create your own template in the same vein as BuildingStatus or TRP Status, then tell it to use that one. In your case, your template might be something simple. For instance, you could do an if-statement (or a [[Template:Switch|switch]]) that checks to see if the status of the building is ruined, and if it is, then simply output a color, similar to what you do with bgcolor and the like, and if it's not ruined, output a different color.

:For a quick example of how you might do it, I've put together [[User:Aichon/Sandbox/Demo10|this demo]] based on [[User:Aichon/Sandbox/Templates5|this template of mine]]. The third line in particular is applicable for you, since you could use it to output a color, then you could include that page as one of your colors for a particular suburb. And if you were to change the DangerReport for the building that the demo references, you'd see all of the stuff in the demo change to match. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:23, 1 August 2012 (BST)

:: So '''IF''' I understand it correctly, [[User:Peralta/Template1 | this template]] should return nothing but the correct rgb values in any case? 
:: '''EDIT:''' Ok, so I don't entirely understand how to use the above template to generate a color, as can be seen [[User:Peralta/Workspace#Test:_Switch_and_Status_colors | here]]. I tried with rgb codes and color names, so far no response. [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 19:07, 1 August 2012 (BST)
:::Fixed it for you. You had the idea exactly correct. The only problem you had was that since wiki tables use the | as a special symbol, the | you had right before the {{CodeInline|<nowiki>template=</nowiki>}} was confusing it, causing it to think that you were doing something with the table. The simple fix is to use HTML tables instead of wiki tables since they don't treat the | as a special symbol, even though it involves some extra code. There might be other ways around it by using [[Template:!]], but those get unreadable in a big hurry. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:03, 1 August 2012 (BST)

::::: I suspected as much and I'll try and stay in HTML code as much as possible from now on :) [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 20:25, 1 August 2012 (BST)


==DangerReport city map ideas==
Update: I'm looking for the best way to apply [[User:Peralta/Template1 | this shamelessly raped template]] on a city scale map. Apart from having to edit at least 10.000 lines of code (I can be patient), what would be the best approach? Create one line of 100 working cells and copy paste the code afterwards for the other 99 lines? [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 21:13, 1 August 2012 (BST)
:If I had to take a guess, I don't think that's possible. The problem is that wiki pages have a limit on how much template code can be included on any particular page. Including 10,000 template calls, even if they were very tiny, is extremely likely to overwhelm the wiki and result in the page "breaking". Pages that break like that will display something like "<nowiki>{{User:Peralta/Template1}}</nowiki>" instead of the template's output. You can check how close you are to reaching the "include limit" for a page by viewing the source code for the page and then searching for the word "byte". You should find a few lines in the code that specify how much has already been included and what the wiki has set as the maximum.

:Assuming it ''is'' possible, however, then I think it would just be a lot of typing, since you'd need to individually type in the names of all 10,000 blocks in the city, I believe. Rather than going across, however, a better way to do it might be to make templates on the suburb level, then group them together to become a city-wide one. It should mean that each piece can stand independently, which means that they'll have more widespread usefulness, and it also means that as you have more to the city-wide one, you won't have to restructure it very much, since you'll be dealing with far fewer pieces. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:21, 1 August 2012 (BST)

:: So one suburb at a time and then "collect" all those results in one big table? [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 21:26, 1 August 2012 (BST)
:::Yep. You'd make something like your smallmap, one for each suburb, then you'd make a largemap that would hold the 100 smallmaps. Doing some back-of-the-napkin math, however, I expect it to break the page after around 40-50 suburbs, possibly even sooner, depending on what you have in your switch statement. Also, speaking of it, while my switch only did ruined, rebuilding, and safe, you can actually use any of the other statuses as well, such as "pinata" or "in zombie hands". Adding those two would cause it to break in about 20-25 suburbs. If you added the other statuses too, it'd break even sooner. It gets hard to do things at a large scale with templates, unfortunately. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:37, 1 August 2012 (BST)

:::: How about if I use a pyramid scheme? 1 template per suburb => 1 template per 10 suburbs => 1 template to rule them all? [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 21:39, 1 August 2012 (BST)
:::::Same issue. When the page counts how many bytes it's including from templates, it counts the bytes for all the templates those templates include, and so on. Nesting them further just adds more bytes, since you're adding more layers. My suggestion to do them at a suburb level was more driven by the fact that I think it's easier and will leave you with something usable when the city idea breaks, rather than because it will prevent the city one from breaking. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:42, 1 August 2012 (BST)
::::::And if we consider only 3 (or even two) possible statuses, the approx. 6000 empty blocks that are empty and that won't call on a template? [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 21:44, 1 August 2012 (BST)
:::::::They'd still take up some code, just less of it. You may be able to pull it off though. I couldn't say for sure since I don't know the average length of a block's name, and I'll also readily admit that calculating this sort of stuff has never been a strong suit of mine. You may want to consult [[User:Karek|Karek]], since he understands the numbers behind page breaking much better than I do (he can probably point out where I have it wrong). Alternatively, just make a fake suburb of 40 blocks that are the same and 60 that are empty, then make a fake city out of that one suburb and see what happens. That's the easiest way to check this stuff. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:52, 1 August 2012 (BST)

::::::::Well, it's a hell of a lot of work, so before I do that, I want to know if it would be in vain :p Thanks for the help and I'll ask [[User:Karek|] [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 21:54, 1 August 2012 (BST)
:::::::::Careful, he bites. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:56, 1 August 2012 (BST)
::::::::::Is it just me or is it getting cramped in here? ;) [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 22:09, 1 August 2012 (BST)

I tried something like this a while back and not only was it extremely time consuming to do even one burb, but doing more than even 2 burbs broke the inclusion limit. Keep in mind that building status reports have moving parts and those parts are going count every time any status report is used. [[CORAM/stuff|here is an example]] of a map I made that incorporates status updates. There are also TRP status maps which like the Mall Status Map and NT Status Map which do basically this but on a more focused scale. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>23:56, 1 August 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:Looks like it took me about 30 minutes to make [[User:Aichon/Sandbox/Demo10|this]], but I expect that it would take less time if I did a second one, since I know what I'm doing now. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:26, 2 August 2012 (BST)
::That's a very basic version of what I wanted to make, yeah, although the above restrictions would probably still F things up after a couple of suburbs. [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 00:34, 2 August 2012 (BST)
:::Tweaked it some more and put up [[User:Aichon/Sandbox/Demo11|this demo]] which has a full city's worth of blocks. As you can see, it breaks around 80 suburbs. Also, for Vapor and everyone else: you guys ever seen [[:Category:Pages_where_template_include_size_is_exceeded|this]]? Guess it got added with the wiki update a few months back. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:46, 2 August 2012 (BST)

::::Not the most beautiful of things I've seen so far, but 80 suburbs is a lot better than expected. Too bad there isn't a good way to increase that number :/ [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 00:49, 2 August 2012 (BST)
:::::Well, it was slapped together simply as a test of breaking the page, not to look pretty. Looking pretty would just add more onto the page. I cut out some more and managed to get it up to 86 suburbs. It might be possible to push it further, but I've already pushed it pretty far. Not sure what else I could take out easily, and I've already made the code unreadable. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:00, 2 August 2012 (BST)
::::::I prettied it up a bit by making it use all of the different colors. It'll still only get 85 suburbs though. Not sure what else I can cut, other than going and editing the official colors for this stuff (some of which can be chopped in half, but would result in slightly different shades). {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:05, 2 August 2012 (BST)
:::::::You're on the right track. I think those slightly different shades are worth it tho. Is there an option to make them squares, rather than rectangles? [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 02:59, 2 August 2012 (BST)
::::::::You'd have to fool around with the CSS. And considering this was just a demo for the sake of seeing how far we could get before breaking the page, I'm probably not going any further with it. It was something I whipped together in a few minutes to test something. You'll have to take it the rest of the way if you're interested in it, since it would need a lot of refining, assuming you can get it to work. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:41, 2 August 2012 (BST)

I'm going to go ahead and thank you Aichon for your [[User:Aichon/Sandbox/Demo10|Demo10]] and [[User:Aichon/Sandbox/Templates5|Templates5]]. They were the missing pieces in a puzzle I've been trying to put together to simplify the updating of my character positions. My WIP can be found [[User:Klexur/Sandbox/Demo2|here]] and [[User:Klexur/Sandbox/Template2|here]]. --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 06:06, 2 August 2012 (BST)
:You could've just asked earlier. :P

:Anyway, always happy to help. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 06:10, 2 August 2012 (BST)


== Easier If Equal Then? ==
Since I wasted time not asking last time, I am now. Is there an easier way to make a an ''If Equal Then'' statement in equivalent to this mess: {{CodeInline|<nowiki>title="{{if|{{{Kempsterbank|}}}|{{switch|{{{Kempsterbank}}}|case: o=Kempsterbank|default={{{Kempsterbank}}} is in Kempsterbank}}|Kempsterbank}}"</nowiki>}} --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 21:30, 4 August 2012 (BST)
:Well, you're not actually using an if-equal-then; you're using an if-then. And if you use an if-equal-then instead, I think you can reduce it to this without changing any of your behavior or other logic at all (this is dry-coded since I'm about to run out the door however, so you'll need to make sure it works): {{CodeInline|<nowiki>title="{{ifequal|{{{Kempsterbank|o}}}|o|Kempsterbank|{{{Kempsterbank}}} is in Kempsterbank}}"</nowiki>}}. Basically, your code performs checks to see if it's blank, equal to o, or equal to something else. Mine combines your first two checks by treating a blank as an o, thus saving some code. That said, the net code may still be larger, since I believe that ifequal is a more complicated template than the if template, meaning that while it may make more readable code, it may break the inclusion limit sooner as well. Something to watch out for if you're trying to make this work at massive scales. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:51, 4 August 2012 (BST)
::Maybe I'm over thinking this but the more I look at that, I'm not sure. I'm trying to code this so each suburb will check if it is set to either a ''name'' or ''o''. If set to a ''name'' it will output {{CodeInline|''Name'' is in Kempsterbank.}}, but if set to either nothing or ''o'' then {{CodeInline|Kempsterbank}}. I'm going to try it though just to check. --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 00:43, 5 August 2012 (BST)
:::Yep, that's the logic I put down. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:34, 5 August 2012 (BST)
::Seems to work fine. =] Thanks. So back to the inclusion limit. Do you think it'll break? --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 00:58, 5 August 2012 (BST)
:::If you use it a few thousand times, yep. If you're just using it for something like a visited suburbs map, it should be fine, I think. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:34, 5 August 2012 (BST)
::Sorry for spamming your talk page, but I just realized I have another section reading {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{if|{{{Kempsterbank|}}}|{{switch|{{{Kempsterbank}}}|case: o=o|default=c}}|x}}</nowiki>}} for determining what color to apply. I don't think the If Equal will work though. --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 01:02, 5 August 2012 (BST)
:::That already looks pretty short. I can't see a way to shorten it more without having to change how you have things set up. If you were willing to do that, we could cut out quite a bit of code, I think, but that'd mean having to reexamine the entire structure, and that's probably not worth it at this point. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:34, 5 August 2012 (BST)
::::I haven't had much time to play with this but I did remember you saying something about changing the setup to shorten code. Just what did you have in mind? I do love minimalism. =P --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 01:54, 12 August 2012 (BST)
:::::I hadn't given it much thought, to be honest, but off the top of my head, I suspect that removing the ability to use either a blank or a "o" to mean the same thing could chop out a lot of code. After all, this is a personal template, not a general use one, so there shouldn't be as much need for failsafes and the like, since you know how to use it correctly. Stuff like that, more or less. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:17, 12 August 2012 (BST)
::::::Unless I'm missing something(unaware of the context) the If template is just a waste of code here. Minimum you should be using Ifdef or ifndef(if just calls both and only increases your inclusion size) but even that is wasted code when you're using a switch just better word the default to fit undefined cases. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 12:46, 12 August 2012 (BST)
:::::::Also for [[User:Klexur/visitedsuburbs]] you should be using {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{Ifdef|{{{00c|}}}|{{{00c}}} is in Dakerstown|Dakerstown}}</nowiki>}} instead of {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{if|{{{00c|}}}|{{{00c}}} is in Dakerstown|Dakerstown}}</nowiki>}} It's the exact same function for your purposes without the extra Ifndef call and defaults to Blank like the If does. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 12:52, 12 August 2012 (BST)
::::::::Have I mentioned that Karek really knows what he's talking about? Because he does. Listen to him. :D {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 14:23, 12 August 2012 (BST)
::::::::Where have you been all this time Karek? I ended up using {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{Ifdef|{{{00c|}}}|{{{00c}}} is in}} Dakerstown</nowiki>}} for the titles so even if they aren't defined, the suburb name still shows. Thanks again. Any ideas about my [[User:Klexur/Sandbox|other templates]]? I'm trying to make a map that can pull the location data from my character pages (hopefully regardless of the number of characters). --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 00:38, 15 August 2012 (BST)


== How scripts make the rounds ==
Since you have adopted the script since, I think it would be polite to let you know that I have stolen most of the code from Urban Dead Profile Links to create [http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/140112 Urban Dead Attack Links] (a script i really needed since Profile Viewer finally broke down under the barrage of FF updates, and since Chud doesn't paste the attack URL to the URL bar like Profile Viewer did). Since Midinian gave originally permission "to alter it and redistribute it freely", I figure this falls under fair use, especially since I made the results available to every player and gave the necessary props to M in the documentation. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 22:36, 4 August 2012 (BST)
:That sounds fine to me. By all means, continue pushing forward with that. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:27, 4 August 2012 (BST)
:So does it replace Profile Viewer? I miss that script. Badly. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>03:47, 5 August 2012 (UTC)</sub>
::not bad. me likes.--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>16:04, 12 August 2012 </small>
:::It doesn't completely replace Profile Viewer. (I've looked at the code, but couldn't figure out which changes past FF3 caused it to finally break.) This script only replaces a single functionality: Directly generated attack URLs. The main use of them is that you can attack the same target repeatedly by just tapping F5 (or whatever your browser uses to refresh the page), once you have the URL in the URL bar. This is especially handy for PKers, as a.) it saves tedium and b.) allows you to strike and flee quickly. I have also found it very handy in my rare real-time battles. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 19:24, 12 August 2012 (BST)
::::Didn't realize it still worked in old FF versions. For me, it work one minute and did not the next. There weren't any (known) FF updates in between. I had assumed there were some game changes that were responsible. That's what borked it last time and I believe K was making changes to ?profile.cgi around that time (font change among them). I guess it could be a combination of things. From what I understand, some odd code was chosen for Profile Expander. Something about GetId() I think. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>20:00, 12 August 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::::Profile Viewer continued to work ust fine for me under FF3 and all of its updates. It only stopped to work when Mozilla finally forced my FF3 to get a full upgrade. At that point I didn't bother to move back again, but I'm certain you'd find the script working if you forcibly went back to FF3. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 20:48, 12 August 2012 (BST)


==DangerReport map counters==
Any idea what happened [[User:Peralta/Demo1 |here]]? {{unsigned|Peralta}}
:I think I fixed it. Looks like a case of an extra close td tag? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:17, 12 August 2012 (BST)
:: Yup, thanks! Me and [[User:Charles Whipplebotum|Charles Whipplebotum]] are working on filling it in :) Just wondering if it would be possible to install a counter for each status as well? Like how many buildings are safe, unknown, etc? [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 18:14, 14 August 2012 (BST)
:::I can't think of any way to count items using wikicode off the top of my head (aside from hand-coding each individual count), so I wouldn't bet on it happening. It ''might'' be able to work at the suburb level (and even then, I have my doubts), but definitely not at the city level. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:06, 14 August 2012 (BST)
::::Here is one way. Write a if template that assigns a 1 if a status is true and a 0 otherwise. For a given building type in a suburb, stack the templates left to right so the final output is a binary number. For example, if a suburb has 4 hospitals, you would have four status templates (tied to Danger) in a row, the output might be something like 0110. I have a series of counters (up to 10 bit) that you would send that string to get the final count for a suburb (it would return a 2 for the above example). See [[User:MHSstaff/Projects/Counters|here for the counter templates]].-[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 20:25, 14 August 2012 (BST)
:::::I wouldn't refer to that as binary, since, while it is 0s and 1s, it's simply a group of digits, rather than a binary representation of a number (i.e. in your example, if that were binary, it would mean that 6 hospitals were intact out of the 4 in the suburb :P). Anyway, I believe there are some ways that your code could be significantly condensed for these purposes if we change the way it works a bit (e.g. simply have it return the next value in the sequence if it's given a 1, and hard-code it with values for 0-98), which is the sort of thing I had in mind when I made my earlier comment, but even so, we'd need something akin to a 60- or 70-bit counter for every single suburb, then multiply that by the number of different status types. Yours only goes as high as 10-bit, unfortunately. You can see why I have reservations about suggesting that it's even possible. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:42, 14 August 2012 (BST)
::::::Yeah, the scale gets out of hand with this. When I made the counters, my thought was to have a map for each resource (hospital, NT, Police, etc), and then color each suburb based on the results of the counters using the danger reports. Different shades of pink for example (light to dark) for decreasing intact hospital infrastructure for example.-[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 20:50, 14 August 2012 (BST)
::::That map is going to look pretty sweet when finished. Nice job.-[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 20:35, 14 August 2012 (BST)

::: IF it gets finished, since I just can't seem to get it right: [[User:Peralta/Demo1|Peralta/Demo1]] EDIT: FIXED, silly me :) [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 21:34, 14 August 2012 (BST)

::::Just wanted to let you know: we're nearly at 30% completed and it's coming along great, mostly thanks to Charles :) [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 13:41, 21 August 2012 (BST)


== Templates and Variables ==
I set up [[User:Klexur/Sandbox/Demo2|Demo2]], [[User:Klexur/Sandbox/Template3|Template3]], [[User:Klexur/Sandbox/Template5|Template5]], and [[User:Klexur/Sandbox/Template6|Template6]]. I could explain what they do if needed. Template5 is supposed to create a variable with the name of {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{{location}}}</nowiki>}}'s value (retrieved from a character page via Template6) and assign its value to {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{{name}}}</nowiki>}}. I even tried replacing the spaces in the suburb names just in case that was an issue. Is it not possible to dynamically create variables? --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 19:13, 17 August 2012 (BST)
:The problem is simpler than that, I suspect. I think that the issue is that your location variable is in your character template. Since your character template includes Template6, the location variable will be passed as a parameter to Template6, at which point it will no longer exist, since it's been consumed by Template 6. Thus, when Template6 includes Template5, there ''is'' no location variable being passed as a parameter to Template5, since it's already been interpreted (and apparently gone unused) by Template6. You're effectively saying "<nowiki>={{{name}}}</nowiki>" instead of the "<nowiki>North Blythville={{{name}}}</nowiki>" that you were trying to say. You might be able to fix it by adding a "<nowiki>location={{{location}}}</nowiki>" to Template6, but I can't test that at the moment. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:53, 17 August 2012 (BST)
::Wait, I thought this line {{CodeInline|<nowiki>{{User:Klexur/Characters/Klexur|template=User:Klexur/Sandbox/Template5}}</nowiki>}} means my character template is including Template5, not Template6? So wouldn't it be Template6 <-- character template <-- Template5? --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 21:16, 17 August 2012 (BST)
:::Yeah, it seems I misspoke significantly (that's what I get for glancing at it while at work). Anyway, since I'm still at work, I'd suggest a smaller experiment to test whether dynamic variables are possible. Rather than having inclusions of inclusions of inclusions, make it as simple as possible, then work back from there. At this point, that's the process I'd use to advise you on what the issue is if I had time. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:53, 17 August 2012 (BST)


== Cookie Time ==
{{cookie|Johnny Twotoes|Aichon|his help with one of the biggest recent wiki-projects out there.}}
{{unsigned|Peralta}}
:Thanks! I'll be adding it to my page where I keep them. :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:39, 24 August 2012 (BST)


== you probably need to get your head examined ==
Congratulations and welcome back. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 15:54, 24 August 2012 (BST)
:Mainly spambots at the minute. Enjoy yourself. --[[User:Rosslessness|Ross]]<sup>[[User:Rosslessness/Persons Of Note|'''WHO????''']]</sup>[[User:Rosslessness|ness]]  15:56, 24 August 2012 (BST)
::Yeah...that's a love that I'll have to rediscover, since I don't remember the appeal in dealing with it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 16:11, 24 August 2012 (BST)
:::Do it to Gungam. I'm sure that'll help. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 16:45, 24 August 2012 (BST)
::::Gungam? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 17:37, 24 August 2012 (BST)
:::We should build an anti-spam bot. It'd be extra-annoying on this wiki because it doesn't have the API enabled, but I'm sure we could put something together… or possibly steal and adapt it from Wikipedia. {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 15:08, 11 September 2012 (BST)
::::There'd still be the problem of getting it to differentiate actual users from the bots. Or do you mean a bot that deals with the spam they leave behind? (there'd still be a similar problem there, though) --{{:User:Thanatologist/Sig}} 15:40, 11 September 2012 (BST)


==DangerReport map inclusion limits==
Howdy there Aichon. I'm working on the City-Wide danger map with Johnny Twotoes. I just completed the 39th suburb and it looks like we've reached the template limit for the page. When I add Demo75 to the big map I get the following error: "Warning: Template include size is too large. Some templates will not be included." and the final template (Demo00) does not load. Is there a fix for this or will we have to break the map into quadrants? [[User:Charles Whipplebotum|Charles Whipplebotum]] 22:27, 25 August 2012 (BST)
:I did a quick fix that may handle the issue. Demo10 hadn't had it's line breaks removed entirely, and when you have something like 40 extra linebreaks in a template that is being used something like 60-70 times, it adds up. That said, you guys are still ridiculously close to hitting the limit (you're roughly 2000 characters under), and I'm not entirely sure why, since the version I gave you should have had quite a bit of headroom in it (roughly 50,000 characters). It's possible that the suburb I used as a demo, Darvall Heights, simply had less code for it than the average suburb, which is leading to your issues. Also, Johnny needs to remove the line breaks he has in a lot of his other templates. They add up, and the map has virtually no room for tolerance of those sorts of things right now.

:Also, I didn't realize he was using it, but you guys should really change the name of the template you're using from "NVRcolor" (which I used simply because it was convenient for me since I already had a template of that name handy) to something like "a" or some other single-character name. That alone would save you a MASSIVE amount of characters since it's used all over the place. Just copy/paste each Demo page into a text-editor and do a Find/Replace for NVRcolor with A after you move the template to A. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:50, 25 August 2012 (BST)

::Thanks for the quick response. I went ahead and took your advice, renamed NVRcolor to A and updated all the suburb maps. I appreciate the help. [[User:Charles Whipplebotum|Charles Whipplebotum]] 02:28, 26 August 2012 (BST)
:::Okay, just did some more thinking, and I realized that you likely will need to break it into quadrants. What I failed to consider (and what should have been obvious to me when my early math seemed to suddenly be disproven by my demos) is that duplicating one suburb 100 times is very different than having 100 unique suburbs, since in the former case the wiki only loads the suburb's data once and then reuses it over and over again, whereas in the latter it loads data for each individual suburb.  Long story short, you guys are about to hit the limit again, and there's really nothing that can be done about it, other than breaking it up. Even so, breaking it into quadrants is still rather impressive. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:53, 26 August 2012 (BST)
::::I had another idea... or a first one. Do you think it would be worth it to add another shortcut to all building danger report pages that only uses the coordinates instead of the entire building name? It would shorten all building names to 4 characters xxyy in place of say something like, "St. Danilo's Church (Wray_Heights)". Once that is done it'd be easy to generate the entire map automatically using a sequence fill. [[User:Charles Whipplebotum|Charles Whipplebotum]] 20:34, 26 August 2012 (BST)
:::::The thought had occurred to me, but I suspect we'll run into issues again before the full city is completed, since you're still loading unique information for each location. If you want to do that though, rather than doing it by hand, see if you can get [[User:The General|The General]] to use his bot to do it for you, since that could save you quite a few hours. Likewise, he could probably auto-generate it afterwards. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:13, 26 August 2012 (BST)
::::::We're going to do this by quadrant. I like the xxyy idea, but it's gonna be a ton of work to add that info to all locations. Let's pray The General wants to cooperate :) [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 01:41, 27 August 2012 (BST)
:::::: Just for the record: original estimates were about correct. The map stands with the first 83 suburbs up and running. Could be more if we selected the suburbs with the least buildings, but this is what we have right now :( [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 02:01, 6 September 2012 (BST)
:: So we've cut the map into quadrants: [[User:Peralta/Map_Project_NW|NW Quadrant]]. All thats left is making it pretty. -[[User:Charles Whipplebotum|Charles Whipplebotum]] 21:22, 8 September 2012 (BST)


==WTF==
[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=UDWiki%3AAdministration%2FVandal_Banning%2FBots&action=historysubmit&diff=2021345&oldid=2021113 ... was that]? <small>-- [[User:Boxy|boxy]] 14:30, 26 August 2012 (BST)</small>
:That was the new x-variable Aichon had worked into the bot template. Just by setting that x we can make the bot entries appearing struck, allowing at one glance to learn which bots are dealt with and which aren't. It's a small improvement, but I think it was a good idea. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 14:48, 26 August 2012 (BST)
::Yep. I went ahead and added a very simple variable to the template, allowing us to strike them through. That edit was me going ahead and applying it to all of the existing entries. As Spider said, it's something minor, but it's intended to make things easier to check and manage without adding a load of cruft to the page that might break it sooner. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:02, 26 August 2012 (BST)
:::Fair enough, I guess. Still, it'll only work if the sysops actually edit the page when they ban bots. The only time I have a problem is when they don't bother doing a "done" edit <small>-- [[User:Boxy|boxy]] 15:20, 26 August 2012 (BST)</small>
::::Quite true. If it ends up being a failed experiment that no one uses/likes, that's fine. I just figured we could give it a shot and see how it goes, since it has the potential to be cleaner. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:57, 26 August 2012 (BST)
:::::Seeing as most bot entries these days use the same or similar text for each entry, could we ban them automatically based on the user-page text? [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 02:06, 6 September 2012 (BST)
::::::Not without installing some sort of extension to do so (or doing it manually, which is what we do), and that would mean getting Kevan involved. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:01, 6 September 2012 (BST)


== {{grr}} ==
Having now grown addicted to the big wiki's FA process I'm sorta itchy to bring one up here too. Let me know what you think of the new image added to [[Tidal Tactics]] (also I'm considering a page move to [[Tidal tactics]] as title casing now seems wrong to me; talk me out of this). Also hi. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 01:21, 27 August 2012 (BST)
:The image is funny. I think. I'm thoroughly confused, since Tidal Tactics was one I didn't really voice an opinion on, as I recall. As for the caps, it's a proper name, so caps should be as they are. As for salutations, HI!!!!! When can we suck you back into being a sysop? I need you and DDR back. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:06, 27 August 2012 (BST)
::"Wall of text. It needs some more stuff to help break it up a bit." That's you that is. Um probably never unless absenteeism with the odd bit of probably-misconductable behaviour is suddenly a vote-getter now. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 04:20, 27 August 2012 (BST)
:::I say lots of things. Anyway, it looks a bit better, but it still feels monolithic. Does it really need all that text? And who am I supposed to talk to in #udwiki if you're never on any more? Rev disappears for weeks on end, and Axe wants to talk about stuff other than the wiki. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:07, 27 August 2012 (BST)
::::Lies! All lies, I say! :P --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 05:09, 27 August 2012 (BST)
:::::I supposed I could convert some of the text to sign language but I don't know if that's such a good idea. Moar pics? Also I don't even think I have IRC software on this lappy any more. Email or bakebook me or edit the big man's wiki and find me there. And Rev, well I think he's really a ghost. {{tiny|oh shit now he's gonna haunt me for that}} {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 21:22, 27 August 2012 (BST)
::::::I dunno. I'm just kinda "meh" on it, I guess. I like the idea well enough (<s>even if I don't think it's a particularly useful tactic most of the time</s> EDIT: brain farted, it's useful), but adding more pics and the like is just adding more for the sake of more. As I said, can it be edited down at all? And I don't do that Facebook stuff any more. Disabled my account. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:36, 27 August 2012 (BST)
:::::::What would you consider to be worth cutting? It's not really a brick of text so any trimming is only going to result in the sections being a bit shorter and bittier. Would a wide horizontal image, stretching across the page, break things up a bit better for you? {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 21:49, 27 August 2012 (BST)
::::::::I see a lot of it that could probably be cut down to a few simple bullet points, rather than full paragraphs, particularly the teddy and Mario sections. It seems to me like you could reduce those six paragraphs down to a bullet list and maybe one paragraph offering some quick justifications. That said, I'm talking about being rather ruthless in editing it, so you need to weigh that against the desired tone of the page, which I'm not fully considering. I do think that it would be better if it were about half the length it is now, however. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:00, 27 August 2012 (BST)
::::::::I was hiding in the bushes stalking Aichon (before he edit conflicted me)... I don't think it would be unreasonable to cut the play by play to no more than 4-5 sentences per section (or 1 paragraph).  Cut paragraph 2 of the intro section.  Remove the examples of the tactic in use to only include Blackmore and SFHNAS, arguably the two most well known.  You might, rather, move the examples into a text box like Spidey did [[Guides:Feral_Death-Cultist_Guide#Parachuting|here]]. --[[Image:Kirsty_Cotton_Header.png|60px|Open the Box|link=User:Kirsty_cotton]] <sub>[[Organization_XIII|<span style="color: grey">Org XIII</span>]]</sub> <sup>[[User:Kirsty_cotton/alts|<span style="color: blue">Alts</span>]]</sup> 22:12, 27 August 2012 (BST)
:::::::::Met somewhere in the middle; have trimmed 1000 bytes off the page, mostly in the "play by play" sections, but because I want to retain the general tone I haven't stripped it too far. I don't, to be honest, see any use in making it too short; my general attitude is that if you're not going to read something then it's not for you anyway. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 23:19, 27 August 2012 (BST)


== About your AP guide ==
*~8-9 AP to kill
*~11-13 AP to kill against a Flak Jacket
**Total cost: ~72-117 AP to find enough shells + ~8-13 AP for the kill = '''~80-130 AP''' *

Does this include the AP spent to reload your weapons?
[[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 05:43, 27 August 2012 (BST)
:Honestly, if it doesn't specify in the guide, I'd have to do the math again to figure it out, since I don't have notes for that anywhere (it was written in one sitting VERY late at night when I was putting off a major project in grad school). I wouldn't use that guide's math as a reference for anything, since I'm already aware of a few errors in it (e.g. syringe search rates are very incorrect). The concepts are sound enough, but the math needs a thorough fact-checking. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:50, 27 August 2012 (BST)
::so does your face. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 04:37, 29 August 2012 (BST)
:::NO U. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:48, 29 August 2012 (BST)


== I don't speak Zombie ==
So just what ''were'' you [http://iamscott.net/1346206542345.html saying]? --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 03:48, 29 August 2012 (BST)
:...Seriously? You're going to ask him to translate instead of doing the tiny amount of research to learn the language yourself? Something which will undoubtedly come in handy at later dates, particularly if you actually ''play'' a zombie at some point.
:~~Survivors~~ 
:Although, Aichon, why did you say Hab instead of Haz?
:{{User:DT/Signature}} 04:29, 29 August 2012 (BST)

:You really should learn, but just this once...
:{{quote|Aichon|al=left|A zombie brought down the last of the barricades. (23 hours and 6 minutes ago)}}
:"Greetings, friends. I come to spread the word of BARHAH! Has breathing got you down? Has the RNG been fighting you in your searches recently? Has shooting innocent zombies repeatedly given you a crisis of conscience? Well, never fear, we in the MOB have a message of peace and BRA!NZ for you. So, please, allow us in for a mere moment in order to share our message, if you would be so kind."

:{{quote|Aichon|al=left|A zombie bit into you for 4 damage. (23 hours and 3 minutes ago)<br />The zombie's bite was infected! (You'll now take 1HP damage for every action you take, except speaking. Infection can be cured with a first aid kit.) (23 hours and 3 minutes ago)}}
:This should clearly be interpreted as, "You, sir, seem particularly amenable to our message. I would like for you to have something to remember this encounter by."

:{{quote|Aichon|al=left|You heard a muffled groaning from inside the building. (20 hours and 21 minutes ago)}}
:And this, of course, means, "You know what? I have some friends I'd like you to meet as well. Hold still for a second."

:{{quote|Aichon|al=left|A zombie said "HAGZ!" (20 hours and 21 minutes ago)}}
:"HAGZ!" is roughly translated as, "In the meantime, allow me to offer you a HUG as a gesture of friendship!"

:{{quote|Aichon|al=left|A zombie clawed at you for 3 damage. (20 hours and 21 minutes ago)}}
:That would better read as "A zombie hugged you for 3 damage."

:{{quote|Aichon|al=left|A zombie bit into you for 4 damage. (9 hours and 3 minutes ago)<br />The zombie's bite was infected! (You'll now take 1HP damage for every action you take, except speaking. Infection can be cured with a first aid kit.) (9 hours and 3 minutes ago)
}}
:Loosely translated, it means, "Good friend, I see that you have been robbed of the memento I left you several hours ago. Allow me to leave another."

:{{quote|Aichon|al=left|A zombie said "HA! GRAGZAR. MAHB HAB BARHAH. AMBRAZH BARHAH!" (9 hours and 1 minute ago)}}
:Ah, now we're getting into the vocalizations. I had hoped that you would recognize your own name, but alas alack, that did not occur. Regardless, it reads as, "HI again, KLEXUR. Were you aware that MOB HAVE [''sic''] BARHAH? You really should EMBRACE BARHAH!" I'll blame the obvious grammatical error on a minor case of brain rot.

:{{quote|Aichon|al=left|A zombie gestured at you. (9 hours and 1 minute ago)}}
:You could interpret this as, "For the sake of avoiding confusion and because your eyes look like they glassed over, yes, I am referring to you when I use your name."

:{{quote|Aichon|al=left|A zombie brought down the last of the barricades. (7 hours and 50 minutes ago)}}
:"I'm not leaving until I get an answer! BARHAH?"

:And then you missed...
:{{quote|Aichon|al=left|A zombie ruined the building. (1 minute ago)}}
:Which of course means, "Friend, despite your shooting me in the head and dumping my cold, lifeless body out on the street for scavengers to pick at, I'll assume that this was a mere miscommunication and that you are still interested in pursuing some further discussion on this matter. As such, allow me to leave my calling card, such that you can find me later with ease. Or, at the very least, allow me to direct you towards one of the other designated BRA!NZ harvesting locations that are available in your area, where one of the MOB's other representatives will be happy to address your problem with breathing."

:Let me know if any confusion regarding my statements still remains. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:44, 29 August 2012 (BST)
::<big>'''LMAO'''</big> Thanks for the translation. I did try to figure it out myself but the farthest I got was the Barhah. Zombie to English is confusing with the missing letters and multiple translations. Although it is good to know what my name translates to, clearly I need more practice. Thanks again Aichon! --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 05:09, 29 August 2012 (BST)
:::Key things to remember (and these are serious):
:::#We use the ! both as the letter I and as an exclamation point.
:::#If you see an A, try substituting other vowels and see if they help.
:::#Pretend it was a drunk friend slurring their words and speaking slowly.
:::#Say it out loud, rather than just reading it, and add that drunken slur.
:::I find that those help me the most when I'm encountering words I don't necessarily understand. I also tend towards shorter messages that are easier to decipher but may leave out some in-between words. Most people, I find, are willing to make an effort to translate them and fill in the missing words, whereas it's been my observation that many people are turned off when they see a whole line of grammatically correct zombie speak and will simply choose to ignore it instead, which is unfortunate. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:32, 29 August 2012 (BST)
::::Your translation is off, Aichon. And you call yourself a zombie player. Shame on you. "''A zombie bit into you for 4 damage.''" is much better translated as, "''Lemme give you a kiss! *SMOOCH!*''" --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 00:58, 30 August 2012 (BST)
:::::I gotta agree with Aichon here.  A bite is second best to death, it's obviously a sign of friendship and trying to help. --[[Image:Kirsty_Cotton_Header.png|60px|Open the Box|link=User:Kirsty_cotton]] <sub>[[Organization_XIII|<span style="color: grey">Org XIII</span>]]</sub> <sup>[[User:Kirsty_cotton/alts|<span style="color: blue">Alts</span>]]</sup> 01:08, 30 August 2012 (BST)
:::::I'm going to side with Axe Hat on this one. Love equals bite whether in a falling mall or in the sack. A drag out into the street is a friendly sign of help. [[User:Det Briscoe|Det Briscoe]]
::::::You guys take everything as symbolism. I think it was Freud who said "Sometimes a bite is just a bite".--{{User:DT/Signature}} 03:06, 30 August 2012 (BST)
::::::I think getting dragged out is more of, "We're gonna go on a dinner date, whether you like it or not. Oh, and you're paying the tab." xD --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 03:23, 30 August 2012 (BST)
:::::I'm fairly certain I know how to translate what I said and that it's the height of hubris to suggest otherwise. It's possible that, just as you or I may misuse a word in the English language, I may have misused a Bite (though I would contest such claims), but that doesn't change the translation, given that I would have been using the Bite to mean exactly what I said it meant when translated into English. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:27, 30 August 2012 (BST)
::::::Don't lie, Aichon. We all know you secretly want to go out on a nice lil' dinner date with Klexur. ;) --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 03:32, 30 August 2012 (BST)
:::::::I'd have gotten a bit more grabby if that was the case. As it was, my claws only got caught on him once. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:35, 30 August 2012 (BST)
::::::::Nah, man. You don't want to move too fast. Make him want you. :P --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 03:36, 30 August 2012 (BST)
:::::::::^F'in creepy. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>03:53, 30 August 2012 (UTC)</sub>
::::::::::^Agreed... --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 04:12, 30 August 2012 (BST)


== Easy==
http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2009_11#User:Ragedy

20:08, 21 November 2009 Krazy Monkey (Talk | contribs | block) blocked Ragedy (Talk | contribs) with an expiry time of infinite ‎ (Sock puppet of User:DeadStawker) (unblock | change block)

--[[User:Rosslessness|Ross]]<sup>[[User:Rosslessness/Persons Of Note|'''WHO????''']]</sup>[[User:Rosslessness|ness]]  00:52, 30 August 2012 (BST)

:Also, never trawl the archive. Go to the user page, and click the "what links here" link. Took two seconds. Even works with deleted pages. --[[User:Rosslessness|Ross]]<sup>[[User:Rosslessness/Persons Of Note|'''WHO????''']]</sup>[[User:Rosslessness|ness]]  00:57, 30 August 2012 (BST)
::Awesome. As for the archives, generally it's as easy as just clicking on the link for the correct archive, since I usually have a tab open with the past years handy, but if I have to start trawling, yeah, your method is way better than the sorts of stuff I typically would do, though it doesn't work so well with more well-known users, I would imagine. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:33, 30 August 2012 (BST)
:::343, appears to be a mistaken warning, which it why it was struck before we brought in de-escalations. I'd ignore it. --[[User:Rosslessness|Ross]]<sup>[[User:Rosslessness/Persons Of Note|'''WHO????''']]</sup>[[User:Rosslessness|ness]]  18:40, 30 August 2012 (BST)


== DEM & RG ==
{{Divquote|Aichon|You probably should correct every single mention of RG on the wiki then, since they almost all repeat the line that DEM invented the RG and supplied its initial moderators before withdrawing from it.}}
I wasn't able to find many references to DEM inventing RG on the wiki. Do you have some examples? It was always my belief that it was a community thing. I'm mostly interested because I'll eventually get to that point in chronicling UD's history and everything that I've read states the only real connention between RG and DEM was that it was originally hosted at Brainstock and had DEM member moderators. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>21:59, 3 September 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:I was thinking of [[PK_Reporting#The_Rogues_Gallery|here]] and [[Rogues_Gallery#History_.26_Controversy|here]], but if you check the talk page on that first link, you can see some nice controversy over whether or not it's a DEM tool, since it sounds like the DEM were trying to both distance themselves from it so it could be seen as neutral while at the same time maintaining some claim to ownership over it at the start (e.g. what [[Talk:PK_Reporting#Category:_DEM.3F|Jorm said]]). {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:21, 3 September 2012 (BST)
::I had seen the info in the second link, which is where I drew a lot of conclusions as well as from the controversy and history areas linked from that page. It says the members of DEM (not DEM itself) created and moderated RG. I had not seen the history of or the talk page of the first page you linked and I think you're right, they were trying to claim some ownership/credit. Seems this happened near the beginning of DEM hate (early 2006) and shortly after the desenz/resenz fiasco. At any rate, whatever conclusions that can be made about the (un)humble begginings of RG, history tells us that it isn't a DEM tool. I think I'll allude to dem involvment without outright calling it a dem creation when I get to that point in the timeline. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>23:18, 3 September 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::Maybe just say that it was "created by DEM members" and leave it at that? Such a statement is both factual and makes no additional claims regarding whether or not it was created under broader DEM supervision, which is apparently a disputed claim. Should circumvent the whole issue. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:48, 4 September 2012 (BST)
::::Aye, something along those lines. It may not even be necessary to mention its creators in the blirb. I'll cross that nridge when time comes. Thanks for giving me that link. That's interesting backstory and timestamps are always nice when digging up old history. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>02:51, 4 September 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::::Apologies for interfering, but I'm glad this subject is objectively discussed and resolved, since I'm getting quite sick of all the anti-DEM sentiment, founded in discussions and events half a decade ago... Keep up the good work guys! [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 03:36, 4 September 2012 (BST)
::::::hate to break this to you. the DEM still sucks donkey dick. i will take pleasure in tracking you down in game and killing you copper.--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>06:22, 4 September 2012 </small>
:::::: I feel honored to have won your attention, yet surprised that someone who hates an organization starts hunting someone who strives to its rehabilitation :) [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 06:34, 4 September 2012 (BST)
::I think you're both misunderstanding the controversy and [http://z14.invisionfree.com/Brainstock/index.php?showtopic=67 history of the RG]. There have been countless instances of very thorough debunking of the "the DEM doesn't influence the RG" argument, which wasn't true until after the full on split. It was never a secret that the RG was built [http://web.archive.org/web/20060510154048/http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Rogues_Gallery as a DEM tool for public consumption] with heavy involvement from [http://z14.invisionfree.com/Brainstock/ar/t1409.htm very particular high ranking DEM members](indeed, that link even references that moderators were all MPD members). For many years they secretly, and then later not so secretly, pulled RG reports to update DEMON and IMP in addition to the auto-scouting functions which were used in part to track RG reported PKers which tied it into other issues people have historically had with the DEM. That in combination with them occasionally listing groups KoS for inter-DEM reasons were a large part of why the whole distancing themselves from the RG's history thing started, it was negatively effecting the lists reputation. Everything else is intentional re-framing and probably not worth giving much weight beyond noting that after years of controversy in 2010/9?(can't remember exactly) they finally agreed to outsource it to the UDProfile Database site run by codemonkey Kyle/Slutthefeard. That would be the .net. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 10:27, 4 September 2012 (BST)
:::Fair enough, my point in a lot of these discussions is that most controversy dates back several years, and I can hardly appreciate it, but this is at least an objective post... :) [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 10:46, 4 September 2012 (BST)
::::Yeah, when it comes to DEM controversies, I've mostly ignored them since they haven't impacted me. The technology behind DEMON never seemed like that big of a deal to me, so much as the ways in which it was abused by alts and the like (I've actually considered making something similar, but which tries to address the alt issues). Really, the alt issues are my biggest problem with DEM, and continue to be a problem, last I checked. A lot of the rest of it is overblown stuff that got tainted by association, despite not being problematic when taken by itself.

::::As for articles like what Vapor is talking about, I just don't see a point of shoehorning in a controversy where one isn't necessary. Keep the focus on what it should be on, ya know? :) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:55, 4 September 2012 (BST)
:::Thanks for the links Karek. Figured there might be something I was missing. Peralta, a lot of focus is being spent on documenting game history these days, which is why DEM has been brought up recently. I try to keep it objective, as I do with other historical subjects but don't be too surprised if the subject of DEM is brought up again. If you're truly concerned with reform, these discussions will be good for you to follow along. Do try to take the comments in stride. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>16:15, 4 September 2012 (UTC)</sub>

:::::I do, don't worry and I'm generally interested in the alt subject that came up earlier, since our policy is quite strict afaik (1 DEM character per player)? Any feedback is always welcome, since I see the DEM as something to broaden the game experience and immersion, not a way to cheat (we're feeling the zerg hands of The Dead at the moment, which isn't even subtle and I can tell you this: I [b]HATE[/b] zergers and cheaters... Of course stuff like this:
      hate to break this to you. the DEM still sucks donkey dick. 
     i will take pleasure in tracking you down in game and killing you copper.
      --{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>06:22, 4 September 2012 </small>
:::::can simply bugger off and go troll someone else :) [[User:Peralta|-- Johnny Twotoes]] 17:52, 4 September 2012 (BST)
::::::no fuck you.--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>18:13, 4 September 2012 </small>


== would you consider [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User%3AArmadillo_Meat&action=historysubmit&diff=2024517&oldid=1933423 this] vandalism? ==
just wondering --{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>00:11, 5 September 2012 </small>
:missing the talk page is bad mkay {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 03:58, 5 September 2012 (BST)
:{{Divquote|3={{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>06:22, 4 September 2012 </small>|2=i will take pleasure in tracking you down in game and killing you copper.}}
:Sounds pretty similar... {{Lol}} --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 04:40, 5 September 2012 (BST)
::fuck off, no it's not. notice i said in-game. role playing. stop being a shumuck. i wasn't even talking about the threat, just the fact that he posted it on the user page. --{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>06:25, 5 September 2012 </small>
:Honestly? I don't know. I'd have to think about it some more. Instead of answering that question though, I'd rather just revert it as a dick move/idiot mistake, move it over to the talk page, and call it a day (which is exactly what I'll do in a moment). Whether or not it's vandalism is a secondary concern compared to what the best course of action is, and the best course of action is almost always to handle things like adults instead of dragging someone into A/VB. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:21, 5 September 2012 (BST)
::Oh, and if you were asking about it being vandalism in regards to the content of what was said, I'm still inclined to keep it off of A/VB if possible, since these things are best settled away from there. If Armadillo feels threatened or menaced or something, however, and wants to pursue it, I'd be fine with passing down a warning since between the content and the place it was posted there's plenty there that could warrant a slap on the wrist. If someone else tries to bring it up though, I'd probably rule Not Vandalism and tell them to stop making a stink over nothing but roleplay. Maybe it's a double-standard, but I don't see how it can really be considered vandalism unless it was taken as an actual threat (which would require Armadillo saying so) or else it could be demonstrated that Nicki intentionally posted on the user page, which is unlikely, since we've almost all done that at some point when a user has a blank page. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:26, 5 September 2012 (BST)
:::I lost track of how many user pages I welcome-dropped. If the message had been posted to what was clearly a user page then it's a no no; otherwise AGF and assume it was meant as a talk message. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 05:28, 5 September 2012 (BST)
::::Completely agree, which means that unless it's vandalism based on its content (which I do not believe is the case), it should be ruled NV. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:31, 5 September 2012 (BST)

Seriously, threats... [[UDWiki:Administration/Vandal_Banning/Archive/2008_08#User:Nallan|not vandalism]]. '''especially''' ones you can't prove ''arent'' related to the game this wiki is based on. Using user page instead of talk? mistake IMO. Move to talk, notify user of silly mistake and call it a day I'd reckon. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 05:33, 5 September 2012 (BST)

Assume good faith you muppets.--[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  16:55, 5 September 2012 (BST)
:I'm a bit rusty since it's been awhile, but I eventually came around to that conclusion. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 17:11, 5 September 2012 (BST)


==Thank you!==
Always nice to meet a sop who can ban a spambot. --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  16:54, 5 September 2012 (BST)
:I've actually banned quite a few in the last week, though not nearly as many as you did earlier today. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 17:04, 5 September 2012 (BST)
::And set up a delightful page deletion link. Any chance we can add a perma this ip button on the checkuser screen? --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  17:07, 5 September 2012 (BST)
:::I wish, but I couldn't fine the System Message for the checkuser paged anywhere when I looked yesterday (probably because it's an extension?), so that may not be possible. I was actually hoping to do exactly that. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 17:09, 5 September 2012 (BST)


== Protected article edit ==
Hi Aichon. I was just perusing an old protected article that has a typo. Think you could fix it for me? Guess I feel inclined to bring it up since it was a significant part of UD history for me. The sentence reads: "On Saturday, April 21th, persistence paid for the zombie attackers, as they cleared Dewes of defenders and ransacked the building."

Minor edit - "21th" - but nonetheless... Cheers.--{{User:Nallan/sig}} 11:37, 7 September 2012 (BST)
:Happy to help. The deed is done, though for future reference it helps if you give a link, that way I don't have to go searching. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:26, 7 September 2012 (BST)
::HA sorry. Nice work finding it regardless.--{{User:Nallan/sig}} 19:24, 7 September 2012 (BST)


== 3D Cinemas Category ==
I created a new category, [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Category:3D_Cinema 3D Cinema], and so far only added it to two pages as a temporary fix. Whether it stays is up to you/the community (I know, I should have made it plural) but I do think there needs to be an easier way to find them on the wiki. With that said I'm not sure if it would be best to put them in a separate category like I have or just list them under Cinemas with {{CodeInline|<nowiki>[[Category:Cinemas|3D]]</nowiki>}}. --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 21:42, 8 September 2012 (BST)
:I'd certainly recommend against the latter option; it'll mess with navigation if people expect to find things alphabetically. Two cats is fine. {{Unsigned|Misanthropy|21:47, 8 September 2012 (BST)}}
::Good point. Then if it stays could you make it plural i.e. "3D Cinema<u>s</u>"? --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 21:59, 8 September 2012 (BST)
:::I love you for this. When i first started playing I tried shitloads of cinemas looking for the glasses- I never found them! You're a life saver! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 01:10, 9 September 2012 (BST)
::::Hey, you! Get in line! I [[User_talk:Klexur#General|liked him first]]!
::::As for what to do, I defer to Mis and the others (such as DDR) who know categories better than I do. I stay away from category stuff. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:32, 9 September 2012 (BST)
:::::Ya, in that case I'd make it plural, make it a subcategory of [[:Category:Cinemas]] and it should all be good {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig}} 01:49, 9 September 2012 (BST)
::::::I was just about to ask about that when you edit conflicted me. XD Also, I have only confirmed [[Lynham Cinema]] as 3D. --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 01:58, 9 September 2012 (BST)
:::::::Beauty! Well, I've done the boring work, recateegorised the pages and remade the category. Hope that's ok {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 02:33, 9 September 2012 (BST)


== Revert please ==
can you please revert my edit to [[User:DangerReport/DangerCenter]]. Page just hangs when I try to undo it. I was trying to subst in all the templates on that page but hit the 300 kb page size limit. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>04:47, 10 September 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:I did it but that meant blanking the page; was that right? {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 04:59, 10 September 2012 (BST)
::Yeah. Edit before mine was a page wipe. Was trying to make the map work. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>05:04, 10 September 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::If you hit that problem in the future; page history -> view the previous version of the page. If you edit and save you're essentially reverting what's happened since without needing to look at a diff screen. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 05:07, 10 September 2012 (BST)
::::Loaded the map with the 83 suburb max. -[[User:Charles Whipplebotum|Charles Whipplebotum]] 05:10, 10 September 2012 (BST)


== If you're going to be anal... ==
Wouldn't the first folio have used a V rather than a U? (Anything after the 15th century stops being my area of linguistic expertise). {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 23:28, 11 September 2012 (BST)
:Maybe? I couldn't say, but it is rendered as "unto" in every version I've seen (except for those cheater ones that high schoolers use that have all of the text rephrased in modern English vocab and slang). As I said in the note, feel free to revert. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:30, 11 September 2012 (BST)
::Nah, it's fine. Though I should point out [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:DanceDanceRevolution&diff=prev&oldid=1746537 you're no stranger to getting anal]... {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 23:33, 11 September 2012 (BST)
:::Actually, not to be anal, but I was fictionally ''giving'' it, not getting it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:37, 11 September 2012 (BST)
::::SEE! It's not just me. --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  23:39, 11 September 2012 (BST)
::::''Getting'' doesn't necessarily mean ''receiving'', I should point out if we're going to be pedantic about this. {{;)}} <small>Note how I managed to avoid using the word “anal”… oh, bugger.</small> {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 04:21, 12 September 2012 (BST)
:::::Yes, I was quite aware of that, but given Mis, I thought it was a fairly safe inference that that was how it was intended. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:23, 12 September 2012 (BST)
::::::We're all dudes here (though I believe I may be the only [[wikipedia:Dudeism|dude]] here); you do not just "give" anal. You get it, like a precious gift, and only when the moon is right and the stars are in alignment and half your last paycheque seems to have been compressed into something small and shiny. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 04:42, 12 September 2012 (BST)
::::My girlfriend and I took a while to get through that rough patch... now you've brought it all back! ...mmmmiiiIIIIISSSSSS!!!!! {{unsigned|DanceDanceRevolution}}
:::::Funny, Aichon got through her rough patch in no time at all... {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 06:31, 12 September 2012 (BST)
::::::SHE KEPT TELLING ME SHE WASN'T INTERESTED! {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 06:33, 12 September 2012 (BST)
:::::::Understandable. I wouldn't bum you either. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 06:42, 12 September 2012 (BST)


== Suburb: Dunell Hills ==
I want to go on record here and say that both you and Papa Moloch are wrong when you say DH still is filled with dangers and, quoting him "three years of carnage". The fact of the matter is that the most dangerous things in DH currently are some PK'ers and a zerger or two... We've been in DH for several weeks, and most of our cadets didn't even get killed once, not even when we did such things as maintaining open-air RPs (oh look, level two brain-rotters) or suicide repairs (highest AP cost was about 28)...
The Dead may have once been a real horde, now it's a couple of zergers, the most obnoxious examples where the futile attacks by several accounts made within hours of eachother... {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 15:00, 13 September 2012 (BST)
:Personally, as someone who has [[404]]'d The hills many a time, the acid test is always dury. By the most recent danger report it would take two survivors to clear it. Do that, hold it for a week, and I'll consider the dead era to be over. --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  15:13, 13 September 2012 (BST)
::That is basically what we did, just add some new players that need reviving and basic instruction in the mix and there you go :P {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 15:16, 13 September 2012 (BST)
:::Yeah, SoC is nearby to Dunnell at the moment and the only resistance we're facing are The Dead zergs as well. That said, the last time we moved into Dunnell with the DHPD, ACC, Fortress, and a few others, we managed to kick off the second March of the Dead when they decided that they didn't like us having succeeded in securing "their" suburb. Even so, they're greatly reduced from where they were a year ago, and they're also spread thin across the city, but I'd still think that Dunnell is more dangerous ''on average'' than the vast majority of suburbs. Sure, people may be able to secure it for a time, but it has a dedicated force intent on and capable of ruining the suburb once it's not being vigilantly defended. Ridleybank is about the only other suburb that can make that claim (and that suburb will get ruined ''despite'' vigilant defense). {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:24, 13 September 2012 (BST)
::::The difference being that the RRF is capable of posing a serious threat to a big organized offensive, The Dead is not (and when they are, you can smell "zerg" from a mile away). I really think it's a shame a group like The Dead has come this far... {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 15:29, 13 September 2012 (BST)
:::::Dude. Set up a page, chronicle two weeks in DHills, I'd be interested to see a day by day play by a major organisation.  --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  15:31, 13 September 2012 (BST)
::::::We moved on, I just think it's a pitty people still glorify the current The Dead occupation of DH ;) {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 15:33, 13 September 2012 (BST)
:::::::Exactly (@Ross' comment). There's been several years of well-documented danger in that suburb. While I don't doubt that you guys had a successful mission there, that's one anecdote. And even if The Dead cannot pose a serious threat to an organized offense (which I do believe), the fact that they can effectively re-ruin the suburb quickly when there's a lack of organized defense makes the suburb far more dangerous than the vast majority of them these days, which are perpetually green unless RRF or MOB rolls through. And it's not about glorifying them; it's simply about being honest with the fact that the suburb is more dangerous than others. The old language you got rid of was indeed POV, but the new stuff needs to remain factual, and the fact is, the suburb is more dangerous than most on a regular basis still, even if The Dead are a ghost of what they once were. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:37, 13 September 2012 (BST)
::::[[The Dead]] zergs? Really? [[Image:Emot-colbert.gif|Colbert]] I '''do''' hope you've got some evidence of this somewhere; if so, I'll have a look, and then possibly a word. Although I hope you realise there's precious little we can do to stop someone putting on a “The Dead” tag and getting up to shenanigans if they're not a regular poster. {{User:Revenant/Sig}}
:::::I'm not going to suggest that zerging is being condoned, but there's no doubt that being so large and loosely organized has allowed some members (or perhaps "members") to engage in zerging at a grand scale. You only need to look at the .csv of the stats from last year to see some compelling evidence, namely the sudden drop-offs that took place, indicating that hundreds of accounts simultaneously went inactive within the same hour as each other, corresponding to similar drop-offs from their members. A group of us discussed it on the wiki a few months ago, though I can't recall where. As for currently, the SoC has been clearing a suburb and succeeded in repairing the entire thing despite a handful of The Dead trying to keep it ruined, when suddenly a few of the regulars that we had been pushing around each had a strike team worth of "friends" breaking down barricades with them every single day. I know one of [http://profiles.urbandead.net/index.php?name=LeBrain* these guys] has been involved, but I can't remember which. I'm not lodging a formal zerging complaint via Resens, however, so I haven't been bothering with proper documentation, I'll readily admit. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 16:55, 13 September 2012 (BST)
:::::: [http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=2069641 These] [http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=2069636 two] repeatedly attacked a building within minutes of eachother, rarely accompanied by others (first two I could find in our Op thread). Judging by the frequency this happened and the fact their ID's are quite close to eachother, that's a pretty good guess... We also had a ton of very low level zed bashing at cades left and right, nobody bothered posting ID's. {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 17:34, 13 September 2012 (BST)
:::::::Found [[Talk:Malton#Detailed_Game_History_Section|the discussion]] (which was really just me making an off-hand observation, apparently). Also, I didn't correct Johncleese since I didn't see a point in doing so at the time, but his assertion regarding the udisbroken zerg is probably incorrect, since, as I said there, the accounts were created in roughly the 12 hours prior, and not days and days in advance (though you can see several smaller spikes in population corresponding to those zergs). Even so, it does not prove it was The Dead, as I had earlier claimed here.
:::::::That said, there is the matter of the zombie side gaining roughly 1500 new members in the course of a day and a half at the very end of March 2011 to the start of April 2011. Now, that in and of itself is not a problem since the SA forums are massive, but the fact that it occurred at a linear rate of growth from pretty much the moment it started to the moment it ended is indicative of something other than organic growth taking place (growth from forum posts pointing to something should resemble a spike followed by a drop-off that's nearly as rapid though may have a bit of a long tail), especially when you couple that with the fact that there were several sudden drop-offs in the number of zombies, indicating anti-zerging measures kicking in. And that event ''is'' tied to The Dead, since those were the exact days when The Dead surged from a few dozen members to quite a bit more. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:00, 13 September 2012 (BST)


== Talk page headers ==
I recently found [[Wiki_Questions#Text_and_title_the_same_color|this]] and thought you might be interested in my recent edit to my [[User:Klexur/navbar|navbar]]. --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 17:16, 13 September 2012 (BST)
:Ooh, [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Klexur/navbar&diff=next&oldid=2026643 excellent idea indeed]! It's not for me at the moment (I don't want wikinewbs to be put off by special instructions if they're trying to reach a sysop), but it's something I wouldn't hesitate to recommend to most folks. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 17:25, 13 September 2012 (BST)


== Anyway ==
Clearing out a lot of stuff, and starting again. As such, what userscripts and add ons would you suggest I now use, pro survivor/dual nature with no interest in PKing. (Chrome). --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  19:08, 20 September 2012 (BST)
:I'm probably not the best person to ask, since I mostly just use all of my own scripts (except where noted otherwise), given that I was my own target audience for them, and the [[External_links#Greasemonkey_Scripts|userscripts section on the wiki]] was recently cleaned out of all the outdated ones that don't work, so it's pretty easy to glance through. I guess I would say [[User:Aichon/Userscripts#UDMap|UDMap]], [[User:Aichon/Userscripts#UD_A-GPS_Coordinates|A-GPS Coordinates]], and [[User:Aichon/Userscripts#UD_Item_Combiner.2C_Organizer.2C_and_Sorter|UDICOS]] at a minimum. If it were me, I'd also install [[User:Aichon/Userscripts#UD_Barrista|Barrista]], but some people either don't like it, can't get used to it, or can't use it with some other scripts, so your mileage may vary. After that, the rest of my scripts tend to become more about preferences and presenting information more clearly, and less about actually making the game easier to manage, but I'd also grab [[User:Aichon/Userscripts#UD_Building_State_Colorizer|Building State Colorizer]] and would suggest looking through my other ones to see if something stands out. Besides my own, the only ones I use are [http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/35289 UD BiggerSpeechBox] (and before Rev chimes in, I prefer his older version to the newer script that he claims replaces it), which makes the text boxes bigger so you can see more of what you're typing, and [http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/41836 UD Radio Accelerator], which saves you a single IP hit if you're re-tuning a radio. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:48, 20 September 2012 (BST)
::Thank you sir, I'll have a look at all but the radio one. Remind me to vote for you next time you're running for something. --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  19:53, 20 September 2012 (BST)
:::I've actually given some thought to not withdrawing my name from the running for 'crat like I routinely did in my last term as sysop. Haven't made up my mind either way, however. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:01, 20 September 2012 (BST)
::::Do it. --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  21:30, 20 September 2012 (BST)
::::I'm serious. The last competitive vote was last August.Since then they've been shameful coronations. Plus you're everything I'm not. Technically savvy, Literate, Involved in groups on a regular basis, American, on good terms with Thad, the list is endless. Besides, as I always say, Crats do nothing. Interestingly the current RE bid suggests that people seem to want us to do more, but it's no different to being a sysop. I'd be interested to know what your impression of the position is.--[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  21:30, 20 September 2012 (BST)
:::::Regarding me being what you're not...I'm not so sure about your list. You and I tend to get lumped together somewhat often when the different types of sysops are compared. And I know they do next-to-nothing most of the time, but that's actually an argument for why I shouldn't run, since it means my presence or lack thereof in the seat would make no difference. And when those moments where the 'crats actually need to wave their 'crat badge and step into drama show up, I do not envy you guys at all, since I honestly believe that those are the most difficult and can be the most contentious decisions on the wiki, bar none.

:::::As for my impression, if my stance is that sysops set the tone for the wiki, as I said in Karek's A/RE, I'd extend that to say that the 'crats are the ones that set the tone for the sysops. They may not have much to do, but they are in the unique position of being able to offer ''official'' criticisms of sysops outside of the context of A/M, which I think carries far more power than everyone else has realized, and their ability to veto or offer suggestions to candidates can allow them to steer the direction of the wiki in subtle ways that need to be carefully managed so as not to be abused. Generally speaking, 'crats should be stable, responsible, and impartial, I would say, since if any of those are missing at the top, the entire thing tends to fall over or apart. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:02, 20 September 2012 (BST)
::::::We get lumped together? Random. I agree that stability is a strong argument, but I think it also breeds complacency. I demand more people run for sysop. I want the likes of Peralta, MhsStaff, Thad (again), Bob Moncrief et al to be ambitious, to change what this place is. Then I can retire. --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  22:15, 20 September 2012 (BST) 
:::::::Sure. I've seen Thad lump us together a few times in the past, I know, and I'm pretty sure others have as well (can't recall what the basis was, however). As for what you said, I tend to agree that it can breed complacency, but I think the fact that A/BP is a vote acts as a natural balance for any complacency that might set in, just because it ''is'' so easy to oust a 'crat for pretty much any reason at all. And some new blood on the team would be a nice breath of fresh air, both for the added energy they bring as well as the new perspectives they would have.

:::::::Speaking of which, I'd love to see a policy that would set a consecutive term limit on sysops, after which they'd be forced to take a break from being a sysop for at least a few months before running again. It'd force some turnover in the rank and would also give them a refresher on what it feels like to be on the outside looking in. I know that for me, after I had been out for a few weeks, I came to appreciate just how silly I had allowed myself to get in the way that I mentally approached different  topics, and I told myself that if I were to ever get nominated again later I would do my best to be vigilant against ruling based on silly technicalities and minor failures to abide by bureaucracy. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:51, 20 September 2012 (BST)

::::::::It's a trade off honestly. It's easy to forget how easy to forget it can be why we do certain things and it's easy to assume bias over ignorance when you've got the keys and feel the need to know. I'd honestly prefer to see 'crat rollover limits over sysop ones if for no reason other than it's so easy to consistently have the same team as 'crats. Go with what you know always has some sway in votes, particularly when no one gives you a reason to really be upset with them as a 'crat most of the time. Also there should totally be an A/VB like linkdown attached to promotions bids of all sorts. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 03:27, 22 September 2012 (BST)
:::::::::Maybe term limits all around? And quite true. People are almost always content to vote for what they know over an unknown. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:06, 22 September 2012 (BST)

:::Oh, one other note: a recent version of Chrome made it so that clicking on userscript links will not automatically install the script. The way to install them now is to click the link (which will download the script), open up the Extensions window in Chrome (chrome://chrome/extensions/ <-- this link), then drag the script from your downloads folder onto the Extensions page. In fact, I need to add this note to my userscript page. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:12, 20 September 2012 (BST)


==hi==
did i do the talk page thing right lol i am new at this.--[[User:SA|SA]] 02:26, 22 September 2012 (BST)
:You done fine. Just don't do it again. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:06, 22 September 2012 (BST)
::gosh i guess i didnt do it right then did i? also keep up that good copy pastin non-words on a mobile device! {{unsigned|SA}}
:::You undermine your wikinewb street cred when you reference the edit notes that someone else made. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:20, 22 September 2012 (BST)


==like there are any rules to rule da spambits==
uptight bastard! {{Grr}}--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>21:08, 27 September 2012 </small>
:Any good game has rules in order to encourage people to play along certain paths while eliciting creative methods to bend the rules. Just doing it outright is boring and serves no purpose. Besides, I'm playing by the rules too. I'm only undoing it when I'm processing reports or when you do it without making a report, that way it's a competition of sorts, rather than a source of tension. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:42, 27 September 2012 (BST)
::Of course, games should be fun because of the rules, so if you think that the rules make things non-fun, I'm open to alternative rules for a game (within reason). ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:53, 27 September 2012 (BST)
:::i like grim's take on the rules. but you are right, it's better when i sneak em' in thar.--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>21:12, 1 October 2012 </small>
::::Grim's take? F 'em? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:17, 1 October 2012 (BST)


==Whatever==
Now get more people to run for stuff so I can retire. --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  20:30, 1 October 2012 (BST)
:No need for "whatever"s. :P I made it clear in my comment on his A/RE which way I would go with the decision were it left solely up to me. My initial draft actually didn't have that in it, but I decided to add it specifically to avoid leaving you hanging since I knew you would want as much input as you could get. But the end decision ''was'' yours to make alone, regardless of my opinion on the matter, so there wasn't much any of us could do. And, as per my comments in the heading up above, I think the sorts of encouragements and chastisements you offered are valuable, so I'm glad you made use of them.
:As for more people, you do know that all you have to do is withdraw from the running for 'crat next time your seat comes around, right? It worked for me when I wanted to stay out of the position. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:40, 1 October 2012 (BST)
::I just worry about where boxy is. His is coming up really soon. --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  20:50, 1 October 2012 (BST)
:::I'll be putting myself up for boxy's seat, I think, just because he has been spotty in his activity recently. He's always been one to come and go, however, so this isn't surprising or a reason for concern, nor is it the first time someone has had to cycle a promotion/evaluation when he failed to voice an opinion (in fact, I believe he was AWOL for my first promotion, which DDR had to process). Anyway, boxy is great when he's around, and I'm sure he'll be back whenever he's done with whatever it is that has his attention. Also, the reason I didn't envy you on this A/RE was not because of the decision (it was obvious how the evaluation should go, I thought), but rather because it was landing solely on you, meaning that any flak that did come up would be yours alone to handle. That's not particularly fair to you, since it should be a shared burden. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:08, 1 October 2012 (BST)


==A/BP Questions==
<small>This section is for questions that would have been aimed at me during the upcoming [[A/BP]] elections, since I probably won't be here to answer questions during the voting period. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:38, 3 October 2012 (BST)</small>

What's a crat for? --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  21:57, 3 October 2012 (BST)
:On a technical level, they're just here to process stuff that's related to managing sysops, so that means things like handling promotions, processing re-evaluations, and handing out notices regarding inactivity. I'd also suggest that, as an elected position, there's an expectation that they'll put themselves aside a bit more in those particular duties than they might in their sysop-level duties. Essentially, however, they are here to perform administrative functions that sysops are not well-suited to perform.
:More generally, however, I would suggest that a 'crat is here to provide direction for the administrative team, as per some of the comments I offered [[#Anyway|up above]]. That's not to say that they should be pursuing a personal agenda to upset the wiki. Rather, they should be the ones challenging the team to treat everyone fairly, give things more careful thought, be more active in the community, and generally just be better sysops. They'll also use A/RE as an opportunity to provide correction and encouragement to the rest of the team.
:I also see the 'crats as being in the best position to shake things up. Because their position is an elected one, it's relatively easy for a new guard to unseat the old guard by using the 'crat elections, allowing them to bring in some fresh blood to the position and get someone at the top that's encouraging movement in new directions. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:38, 3 October 2012 (BST)

'''Question''' Would your run for the crat seat be influenced by Boxy running or not running? --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 22:16, 3 October 2012 (BST)
:No, it would not. Boxy's general state of inactivity is one of the primary reasons why I am running, so even if he does return for the elections (and I do hope he does), it doesn't change the fact that he has ''generally'' been spotty in his activity over the last several months, notably so with Karek's recent A/RE. I trust boxy to be an excellent sysop and 'crat when he's around, which is why I almost always vote for him, but I'm not sure that I can trust him to be around at the moment. The other reason I am running is that I am simply not as averse to taking on additional responsibility as I was in the past. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:38, 3 October 2012 (BST)

'''Question'''. Thoughts on the second law of thermodynamics? --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  22:21, 3 October 2012 (BST)
:The entropy one? I believe it, to say the least. I also believe that the general concept applies in a number of non-physics contexts, including religion, linguistics, and group dynamics. Were you interested in my discussing something in particular on the subject? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:38, 3 October 2012 (BST)
::Nothing in particular. Just it's always a good question. Plus I think it's relevant to UD. --[[User:Rosslessness|I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, ]][[User talk:Rosslessness|I'm the Ross it deserves.]]  22:42, 3 October 2012 (BST)
:::I'd certainly agree. I mentioned group dynamics, and I definitely think that applies to a game like this, where the amount of energy decreases as time goes on, meaning that less and less can get done until/unless you have an influx of fresh energy from a set of new players. And that ties in with what I was talking about with 'crats being the key position when a new group of players arrive. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:46, 3 October 2012 (BST)
:'''Followup''' Tied to the above,should reevaluation and promotion metrics be lessened given the current activity level of both the game and the wiki? -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 22:49, 3 October 2012 (BST)
::Perhaps at some point in the future, but most of the metrics are qualitative, not quantitative, so decreased activity across the wiki is not yet a good excuse, in my mind, for lowering the bar on what it takes to be a sysop. If the wiki got to the point where very few people were sustaining 500 edits every 6 months, we could definitely reevaluate that rule, but otherwise I don't see any problems with the current rules, and they've always had a bit of leeway built in anyway. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:05, 3 October 2012 (BST)

'''Question''' Am I going to hit inclusion limits [[User:MHSstaff/TRPFull|on this?]] And what are some ways I can make the code better and Aichon-fied? -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 22:48, 3 October 2012 (BST)
:As long as you keep doing it as you are, I think you'll be okay if you do 100 suburbs, though if you used <code>bgcolor</code> instead of <code>style="background:..."</code> you could shave off even more, which may matter more with TRPs that show up more often. As for "Aichon-fied"...umm...I'd probably choose a different colors, such as a brownish-beige for buildings and maybe purple instead of hot pink for NT facilities. I.e. Something more like the colors of the barricade plans. Other than that, I don't really see anything that stands out. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:05, 3 October 2012 (BST)

'''Question''' Are you willing to oil wrestle with Ross for the title of "Supreme Crat," if not is there a different medium you are willing to wrestle in? --[[Image:Kirsty_Cotton_Header.png|60px|Open the Box|link=User:Kirsty_cotton]] <sub>[[Organization_XIII|<span style="color: grey">Org XIII</span>]]</sub> <sup>[[User:Kirsty_cotton/alts|<span style="color: blue">Alts</span>]]</sup> 22:56, 3 October 2012 (BST)
:No, [[NecroTechnicolor#NecroTechnicolor_Hierarchy|I]] would [[NecroTechnicolor#Disclaimers|melt in all of that activity]], and no, see previous reason. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:08, 3 October 2012 (BST)
::How about jello rock-em sock-em robots? --[[Image:Kirsty_Cotton_Header.png|60px|Open the Box|link=User:Kirsty_cotton]] <sub>[[Organization_XIII|<span style="color: grey">Org XIII</span>]]</sub> <sup>[[User:Kirsty_cotton/alts|<span style="color: blue">Alts</span>]]</sup> 23:09, 3 October 2012 (BST)
:::I don't even. What. <span style="font-family: fixed-width, Courier, Courier New">'''core dump 0xF0E56C29, see log for details'''</span> {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:12, 3 October 2012 (BST)

'''Question''' If you win that grudge-match, do you think it is better for Ross to crawl around like a broken, soul-crushed pariah, vainly looking for a place to die, or should he be put down instead? -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 22:59, 3 October 2012 (BST)
:If I were to win, I would assume it was because Ross had fallen asleep. As such, he should not be disturbed. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:09, 3 October 2012 (BST)
::Note to self: Candidate is anti-jello rock-em sock-em robots, and is soft on bureacrat mercy killings. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 23:16, 3 October 2012 (BST)
:::Agreed.  I'm not sure I can vote for someone who won't either unarmed or using children's toys fight in some type of food.  I expected more, Aichon. :P --[[Image:Kirsty_Cotton_Header.png|60px|Open the Box|link=User:Kirsty_cotton]] <sub>[[Organization_XIII|<span style="color: grey">Org XIII</span>]]</sub> <sup>[[User:Kirsty_cotton/alts|<span style="color: blue">Alts</span>]]</sup> 23:21, 3 October 2012 (BST)
::::Oh, is ''that'' what you meant? I thought you meant rock-em-sock-em robots made out of Jello, which utterly confused me. I'm perfectly fine with a bout of rock-em-sock-em while seated in Jello, provided we're talking about the colored stuff and not the pudding. Or at the very least, not Jello rice pudding. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:25, 3 October 2012 (BST)

Well, at least now I won't have to wonder if I should run or withdraw. Thanks for that. {{;)}} {{User:Revenant/Sig}} 02:35, 4 October 2012 (BST)


==Typical==
You turn up and are immediately helpful. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  22:49, 13 October 2012 (BST)
:I'll be more helpful after I've gotten done going through a few dozen e-mails I need to check and have finished some work that needs to be done for tomorrow. ;) Also, I detest the fact that my Watchlist only went back to the 8th. I feel like I missed a few days of things entirely. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:51, 13 October 2012 (BST)
::Not a lot. Just look at protections. That's the only new stuff. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  22:55, 13 October 2012 (BST)
:::Yeah, I hadn't started looking at Karek's stuff at all just yet, though I plan to sometime this evening. I skimmed some of the discussion, however, and aside from a lack of focus, it sounds like folks were thinking along the right veins. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:58, 13 October 2012 (BST)
::::There are also the resolved A/REs (General down, Rev kept), and the running A/BP. That along with the main page discussion is all the administrative stuff happening currently. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 23:03, 13 October 2012 (BST)
:::::Glad to hear there wasn't anything else lurking somewhere. I saw some discussion regarding the sidebar as well, but I figure that's all included with the main page stuff. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:06, 13 October 2012 (BST)
::::::It is, the new main page design I threw up and the Sidebar and, eventually, the Community Portal(which has a note on it's talk page too) are all somewhat related. The sidebar stuff looks like it's just about good to go and the main page stuff possibly needs another revision and some fresh input. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 00:20, 14 October 2012 (BST)
:::::::I'll see if I have anything helpful to add tomorrow, but I'm hoping I'll just have a "looks awesome! let's run with it!" to add. I'd look at it right now, but I'm always scared that I'll end up with a strong opinion that runs contrary to what everyone else is thinking, and I'm in no condition to argue something like that right now if that were the case. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:21, 14 October 2012 (BST)


==Hello there==
-"(diff | hist) . .  Template:Yagoton Groups‎; 17:00 . . (-47) . . Aichon (Talk | contribs) (Removing The Smiths. As per the guidelines for this page, they must be linked. If they're a regular group, encourage them to make a page, even if it's just a line or two. :)"

Roger that. Even though my intention was to try to get them to make a group page by giving them recognition. Heh. --{{User:Eagle of fire/signature}} 00:28, 15 October 2012 (BST)
:Yeah, it can be a bit of a chicken-and-the-egg type of problem sometimes, what with them not wanting to bother with a page since it's not linked, but being unable to link it because it doesn't exist. The rule is mostly there to ensure that there's always a designated way to contact groups who are on the wiki, otherwise we have run into all sorts of problems in the past, particularly when cleaning up those lists. If you can get them to put up a few lines about themselves though, that'd be awesome, and it definitely can't hurt them at all, I'd imagine. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:32, 15 October 2012 (BST)
:You can totally still do that by mentioning them in DangerReports and Yagoton Suburb news if that helps. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 01:54, 15 October 2012 (BST)
::Yeah, I hear ya both. I actually did it at the same time in the group section in [[Yagoton]] page as well as on [[The Abandoned]] group page. Even then it is a long shot... The group is actually pretty active (I can see it every day) but they don't bother registering to our forums nor to they bother with the Wiki. I don't think they are caring much unfortunately. And since many of their members have similar names it is easy to think about zerging. I was actually hoping they'd get here so we can clear that out too. --{{User:Eagle of fire/signature}} 02:46, 15 October 2012 (BST)


==Main Page Redesign==
<small>Most of the following was moved from [[User talk:Aichon/Sandbox/Demo13]] and was in reference to the content of its associated page</small>
===Rationale===
First off, I realized that without putting the links at the top and stretching them out horizontally, there really was no way to make them ''all'' visible to a person visiting the page. So, instead of trying to force the issue of making them ''visible'', I focused on our original goal, which was to make players ''aware'' of them. Towards that end, I put them in a single-file column that is immediately visible when the page loads. As a result, while not all of the links are immediately visible, a visitor to the page would easily understand that there are additional helpful links below the ones they can already see.

Second, I felt like we were missing an opportunity to group some other content. Game news, wiki news, and UD History are all about events that are happening or have happened, so it makes sense to group them together, that way people can tell at a glance what all is going on. Unfortunately, all three of those have content of variable sizes, which means that we need to group them vertically, rather than horizontally. As a result, the only place to put them is opposite the column of links, so I placed them on the right and the links on the left since it's both closer to what we have now and just generally felt better visually.

Third, I still needed to address low res screens, and with columns on both sides, that gets a bit tricky. To try and handle that, what I did was set up the Community Projects and Featured Article sections to automatically try and rearrange themselves so as to best make use of the space available, thus minimizing the amount of awkward whitespace. At low resolutions, they either rearrange themselves into a single column or else move down the page to places where there is more space available.

It's definitely not perfect, however. For instance, to try and make that rearranging stuff work as nicely as possible, I used a few paragraphs of fluff wording that is essentially just wasting space. I'd love to replace it with something that's actually useful. Also, the code for it is atrocious right now, since I wasn't cleaning up old stuff as I made changes and scrapped failed ideas. It needs to be cleaned up and templated out ''at a minimum'', and that's assuming it's an acceptable design in the first place, of which even I am not convinced. Nonetheless though, I feel that it warrants a quick discussion. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:05, 15 October 2012 (BST)
:Quick note: the switch to having FA and CP above/below each other means that the fluff text is no longer necessary. Yay. Now, for bed! {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 08:33, 15 October 2012 (BST)
::I like this. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  11:32, 15 October 2012 (BST)

A lot of the center text needs to go and this actually looks pretty gnarly on small screens because of the left hand menu column. {{unsigned|Karek|02:44, 18 October 2012 (BST)}}
:Is that rad/bodacious gnarly or tangled/difficult-to-use gnarly? As for the center text, feel free to edit and remove text (that goes for anyone reading this). Assuming I remember to, I'll remove most of it tomorrow and replace it with just a few lines of text probably. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:29, 18 October 2012 (BST)
::Its the tangled/difficult to read variety. FA is squished into a little box between the two groups of tables and CP is pushed down below everything and is 100% of the width of the page. Honestly, I'm resigned to the fact that Main Page is gonna look stupid on mobile screens no matter what is done.
::One suggestion for the replacement text: Since it seems aimed at newbie wiki users, why no link to {{tl|Welcomenewbie}} with text to the timbre of "If this is your first time using UDWiki, see [[Template:Welcomenewbie|see here]] for some helpful tips for getting started". Currently, you're being explicit with some information but in a very verbose way and some helpful tips for newbies is left out. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>15:25, 18 October 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::Regarding FA and CP, most of what you described was intentionally designed that way. When the window is wide enough, FA and CP will both be in the middle. As the window gets smaller, first CP will be bumped down, then FA will be bumped down. If you feel that they are getting too squished before they get bumped down, however, that's something I can tweak (if you think they look squished here, you should see what they look like on the current main page :P). Right now, I have them set to get bumped down when they are squished to under 310px. I picked that number as a compromise between letting them get too narrow and bumping them down too early, but if you think a different number would be better, feel free to edit the page accordingly. Same thing for the welcomenewbie text you're suggesting. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 16:58, 18 October 2012 (BST)
::::It's fine. Despite my initial misgivings about how the page looks at low screen res, I don't think we should spend a lot of effort trying to make a mobile friendly main page. If anything, perhaps a separate page like [[Main Page/Mobile]] that's more mobile friendly. I may have time to edit the text later if you don't get to it first.  ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>18:05, 18 October 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::::See if it's any better. I removed a lot of text and tweaked the way that FA and CP operate slightly, that way they drop down together, rather than orphaning one. It leaves whitespace on the page at certain resolutions, but it might be more consistent. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:57, 19 October 2012 (BST)
::::::I'm a fan. Only question: why is the Wiki a "secondary resource" as opposed to a "primary resource" (it's the biggest resource around) or just a "resource"? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:01, 19 October 2012 (BST)
:::::::More or less, I was borrowing from an idea that already existed on the main page regarding the official FAQ being the primary resource and this wiki being something in addition to that, but I think you're right. Rephrased. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:19, 19 October 2012 (BST)

Just a thought: nav links could go in the top UD header space. --{{User:A Helpful Little Gnome/Sig}} 01:18, 20 October 2012 (BST)

:If we had Javascript, sure(think drop downs). Or just an absurdly cut down number of links. Normally you don't really want to go much beyond 6 for something like that. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 04:01, 20 October 2012 (BST)
::After Karek and I talked a week or two ago, we realized this was actually possible by editing the site's CSS. I've put up an initial version using these new menus in place of the left-hand side navigation I used to have. The result is definitely less cluttered, but the menubar could use some snazzying up still. Even so, I wanted to get this up as quickly as possible so comments could start coming in on whether it works across a wide variety of browsers. The menu I borrowed is supposed to work as far back as IE7, but I may have made changes that broke backwards compatibility. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:00, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

===New Version===
Hi Aichon! So the [[User:Aichon/Sandbox/Templates14]] inclusion at the top is producing an eight-row list of alternating headers and squished-together links above the UrbanDead box at the top of the page. Is this intentional? I'm in Firefox if it's browser-dependent.

The rest looks great from here. Great job! {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 20:01, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:You need to do a "force refresh" (Ctrl+F5 in Firefox) before you'll see the changes, since I modified the site's CSS and you apparently don't have those changes yet. It should look like a menu that's centered at the top. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:05, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
::I'm on a Mac so all my Ctrl+Fs are different (Ctrl+F5 opens VoiceOver). I tried doing the full cache-clear but it still looks the same. Firefox 16.0.2 by the way. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 20:10, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
::I see a bunch of run-on and jumbled links as well. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 20:14, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Ok, rather than answering it for everyone who asks, just go look up "force refresh" for your browser of choice and see how to do it. If you guys are seeing a jumbled mess, the problem is that your browser is still using an outdated version of the wiki's CSS file and you need to update it. Simple as that. It'll be obvious when you get it right. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:23, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:Anyone gotten it working? Thoughts? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:05, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
::Still not working for me. I've tried everything the first few pages of google lists, and restarted my computer to boot. Are we sure there's nothing wrong with the CSS? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:08, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:::There may be problems with the CSS, sure (that's the point of testing things, after all), but you should be seeing ''something'' styled up regardless, since none of these changes were particularly odd or unusual (i.e. they're all very "safe" changes that should be compatible with pretty much everything from the last several years). If you're not seeing it, the only reason is that your browser's cache is still holding onto an outdated copy of the CSS for the site. Were this my own site, I could force a refresh from this end by simply changing a line of code, but it's not, and sysop abilities don't give me the access I need to do so.
:::I assume you've tried both force refreshing and actually manually emptying your cache, correct? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:19, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
::::Yep, done both. I do want to reiterate that other than the stuff at the top, the rest looks fantastic. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 21:23, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::Well, why not try popping it open in Safari and/or Chrome (i.e. anything else), that way I can get some feedback on how the new thing looks? We can figure out the technical stuff later, but for now we can at least get some feedback going on the design of it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:01, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
::::::Same exact issue (appearance identical) in Safari and Chrome, even after clearing the cache of both of those. (And I'm pretty sure I've never accessed UD or UDWiki in Chrome before, so the cache-clearing shouldn't even have been necessary.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 22:41, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
::::::Ditto. Maybe the stress of becoming a Bureaucrat has finally caught up to you? How about posting a screenshot of what it should look like, and that way you can get some feedback while waiting to be committed to the asylum?-[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 22:54, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::::I was actually about to ask for screenshots from you guys. :P I don't have time to post a screenshot atm, but it should basically look like one of the boxes on the right side, but stretched thin and with no links inside of it, and the green bar where the title is in those right-side boxes has four drop-down menus as you hover over them. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:55, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
::::::::[[:File:FirefoxSS4Aichon.jpg]]. It's the same in all three browsers I use. Sorry for the low image quality, but I'm terrible at using Grab. {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 23:08, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::The problem isn't caching. The problem is that common.css was borked when K updated the wiki software back in April '11. Nobody has been able to (or perhaps hasn't tried) to fix it since then. For those that are having problems with display, try changing your skin in you user preferences on the appearance tab. I use Urban Dead 3 skin. Monobook is a good alternative. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>00:01, 30 October 2012 (UTC)</sub>
::::::::::Someone make this man a sysop. That fixed it for me. That said, most people are going to be using the default skin anyways (or may not know to switch) which sorta makes this a deal breaker IMO. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 00:07, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::::Well Aichon could fix the CSS issues since a) he seems to know what he's doing and b) he seems to like responsibilities. And yeah, after the update, we had similar issues. The biggest hurdle was the changes to allowed number of characters in signatures. Dozens of sigs broke. I'm surprised it hasn't been an ongoing problem. See [[Help:Wiki Update]] for more info. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>00:15, 30 October 2012 (UTC)</sub>
::::::::::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>grumbles about the wiki issues* Well, if it doesn't work in the default theme, I'm not sure what I can realistically do then, since I agree that it's a non-starter if it doesn't work in the default theme. Nor am I aware of any ways around it, unless one of you guys can point me somewhere that I can edit the CSS that will appear in the default theme. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:28, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Yeah idunno. I was hoping you'd like already know what I had failed learn on my own back then. You'd think it would be a [[MediaWiki:UrbanDead.css]] similar to [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]] but noooo, that would be too simple. K could easily disable that skin I think or make another skin the default. Maybe he could be convinced. That skin is really quite hideous. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>01:12, 30 October 2012 (UTC)</sub>
::::::::::::::Yeah, if he made UD2 the default and rolled all UD users over to UD2 while disabling UD, that'd fix the issue instantly (and solve a number of others too, I think). I'm actually curious what would happen if I made [[MediaWiki:UrbanDead.css]]. I think I'll try... {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:18, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::Only other idea I have so far is that I could hide the links by default and rig it to instead have a notice directing people to their preferences if they had an incompatible skin selected. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:33, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
Looks bloody awesome Aichon :D {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 00:12, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:It is supposed to look like [[:File:Screnshtaichonpage.jpg|this]], right? i dig. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 00:20, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
::Yep, for now, that's what it looks like on my side. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:28, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

===Eh===
Why are we putting links at the top? It was looking so spiffy. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  23:47, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:[[http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Aichon/Sandbox/Demo13&diff=2033872&oldid=2033861 this] iteration seems better in almost every way. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  23:49, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
:Yeah, it looks kinda awkward and out-of-place, especially in contrast to the big banner right below it. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 00:08, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
::Also that version fitted all the important stuff on my screen without the need to scroll, which is nice. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  00:10, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::This new one adds roughly 30px to the top of the screen, but it's MUCH more versatile, since we can now add numerous additional links without taking up any extra space on the screen. That completely eliminates all of the issues we used to have with link boxes pushing each other around and being awkward. Another reason to go for this instead of what I had before is that my old design had a lot of awkward whitespace when you viewed it at a number of different resolutions, which DDR pointed out back on A/PT. This new design effectively eliminates that problem (seriously, a three-column layout on this wiki just doesn't work unless you're willing to throw the low-res users under the bus, of which we apparently have a decent number). In response to your edit note about it not even being useful links, they're the ''exact same'' links I had in the version you linked as being better. The only one that changed was that I moved the Suburb link since I couldn't have nested menus with this current design. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
::That's just a style issue. I agree that it looks quite awkward as it is right now, which is actually why I stopped where I did to get some feedback before I went any further. One thought was to simply re-add some of the links Karek and I had removed from the front page, maybe making it 5 or 6 menus instead of 4. An alternative is to simply stretch it horizontally and maybe do away with the double border thing, instead going for a more traditional looking menu bar. Yet another option would be to simply left-align it and make it sit on top of the header like a set of tabs. I'm very open to suggested alternatives, but I think an approach ''along these lines'' is the right way to go, assuming we can get the issue related to themes figured out. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::It's not just a style issue. You've elevated some quite pointless links to a state of greater importance than they deserve. BHW, MV, Merchandise? Really? --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  10:24, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
::::The "style" comment was in response to MHS, not you. As for the links, once again, these are the same links that were on the page before. The fact that they're hidden behind menus ensures that they're not eating up unnecessary space or receiving more attention than is due them. People now have to go out of their way to click on them, which is actually a mark against this system, since the links are less discoverable. I'm open to discussions about which links should be listed if you feel that these ones are not appropriate, but these are all (or at least very nearly all) links that are already on the front page as it is right now. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 14:05, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::The links were in a nice place before hand. Like most people I'm top biased and read from left to right, so placing them on the left hand page, directly below the UD introduction was fine.  Plus as I said before, in you old iteration I could see everything on the front page at the same time, now I can't. How is that more discoverable? --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  14:59, 30 October 2012 (UTC) 
:::::: Now, I always like to bring alternatives, so how about [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Aichon/Sandbox/Templates14&diff=2035966&oldid=2035684 this?] You retain the important links in a clear fashion, without hiding all the other goodies. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  15:09, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::::I assume you're using the default skin (because it looks really bad in the others, but that's a fixable issue)? Anyway, it has some odd text-wrapping issues as the window gets smaller (not game-breaking), and it also chops out a good 3/4 of the links, when I actually think it might be more useful to put more links back in so that we're not eliminating as many of the links that are currently on the main page. As for being at the top, we could always move it. For instance, what about making it go right under the big header? Style it up appropriately and make it look like it's attached to the bottom of the header? I'm not digging the current look of the menu, so fooling around with different designs is something I'd love to do, but I don't want to eliminate too many links if we have a solution that allows us to essentially have as many as we want without taking up any extra space. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:34, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
::::::::: yeah, it was a two minute rush job to illustrate, but above or below would be fine. Personally I'd like the other info retained in a box on the left hand side. My reason is an aesthetic one. At the minute I hate the asymmetric look of the page, and like the boxes on either side, with the blurb in the middle, links framing the more wordy stuff. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  16:02, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::I agree, but as I said elsewhere, the three-column layout just doesn't work great at a lot of more typical resolutions. It works ''okay'', but not great. This one works great, but I do agree that it feels unweighted.

I like it. As long as we get the skin issue sorted out. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>02:28, 30 October 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:Hrm. Assuming that the links should be clickable. They aren't clickable on touchscreen. I can touch to expand the menus but then trying to select a link collapses the menu again. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>02:32, 30 October 2012 (UTC)</sub>
::Really? Dangit. The CSS I borrowed said it could handle an iPad, but it's possible they were wrong or that my changes may have broken that aspect of it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:23, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::Both my tablet and phone are Android. Maybe its only compatible with iOS or maybe its the browser. The market will soon be flooded with touchscreen devices since Windows 8 came out this weekend. Might be something to consider. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>03:45, 30 October 2012 (UTC)</sub>
::::Just tested on my iPad and it doesn't work for me either. I can't even expand the lists from what I saw. As for touchscreens, while I have no doubt at all that they'll become a lot more pervasive as we get past this holiday season (and should thus be taken into account), I doubt that the Surface will be making up much of that. Its launch this week has been pretty lackluster, and I saw a survey today that said over half of Americans weren't even aware of Windows 8, and of the people that were, 2/3 were planning to skip it. I expect the Nexus 7, Kindle Fire, and iPad line to sell well this holiday. The Surface? Fourth place, unless they can really up their game. In the meantime though, I've seen a lot of scathing reviews that are turning away customers, and my own experience with Windows 8 was horrific enough that I won't be installing it at home over my Windows 7 copy, despite the fact that I have quite a few already-paid-for licenses I can use for myself. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:04, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::::Give a bro a license? ;) {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 09:47, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
::::::I wouldn't inflict that on you. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 14:05, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

===wiki news pushing things down===
This has sort of become a problem already. I've been thinking of logistics of moving one of the boxes under it to a widened box under the community stuff... The only realistic option in that regard is putting game news in the widened left column instead (as the 'this day in urban dead' wouldn't work as a wide one I think). Gotta be honest, for this reason I really like yours better Aichon though I see why this one is logistically neater, I just can't get past the wiki news problem.

Maybe we could even make a new wiki news bar on the left column under the community section. In fact, it might be quite at home there. It could be widened and neatened up and that way there'd be no issue with it being too long or too short and ruining the rest of the page.... {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 00:17, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's part of the reason I updated the wiki news template: I wanted to demonstrate what happens when we have a lot of news, but the fact that wiki news can get large is exactly why I designed it this way in the first place, since it pushes down stuff that most people don't ''need'' to see. And, as I just mentioned up above, a three-column layout, while it can look great at higher resolution, just isn't as functional at lower ones, and we do have some users with lower resolutions, so we don't want to completely abandon them on something like the main page of the site. Honestly, having lots of news is a temporary problem that generally alleviates itself after two weeks, and the only things it pushes down are the Game News (which virtually never updates) and the UD History (which only updates once a month). Also, for your sidebar idea to work, we'd have to put a template in the Sidebar to give general users access. I can see bad things coming out of that if someone felt malicious. They could effectively make the entire wiki go blank with just one edit. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:46, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
::Hmm. That does sound troubling. Although I'm not sure we're on the same wavelengths. I didn't mean the sidebar of the wiki (though I'm not sure if you did either)... I just mean stretch the Wiki News template out to be wider and stylistically similar to the "feautred article" and "community project" boxes and then place it below them- for all intents and purposes it's the same template, just placed elsewhere. It'd be at the bottom so wouldn't affect any other templates if it got longer. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 02:11, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
:::Gotcha. Well, I still wouldn't move the wiki news, to be honest, since that's something that you don't want off the front page, and on low resolutions, it would be pushed off by FA and CP stuff. I could always bump the widths up on the right column, or else knock the font sizes down a bit. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:25, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


==Anyway==
Yeah. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  18:36, 16 October 2012 (BST)
:I know what you mean. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 18:37, 16 October 2012 (BST)


==cheers and glad==
glad someone noticed i placed some suggestions though im not a newbie at forms like this just very forget >>
lolz and used to play urbandead just getting back into swing of it i played about 4 to 5 years ago ( character has ironicly vanished)
btw what do you think of the other suggestions i have quite a few buzzing in my head but just cant get them down on paper
i do think that the hand weapons like bats should have a higher hit ratio 
seems a shame that everyone goes more for a knife --[[User:Heheevilme|Heheevilme]] 16:14, 17 October 2012 (BST)
:Well, the food suggestion has been brought up before, so it's unlikely to get much traction this time around, and the ability to pass items from one character to another is, as the others already pointed out, something that could be pretty badly abused by zergers. As for makeshift weapons, the idea is interesting, but I'd have to do the math on it before I could throw my support behind it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 16:32, 17 October 2012 (BST)
::understandable that everyone needs time to think over it makeshift weapons idea came to me in a few games ive played over the years and though why not suggest it the idea is basically rough though any way you could improve it would be great as i am not all to similar with games ratio --[[User:Heheevilme|Heheevilme]] 17:29, 17 October 2012 (BST)


==Congratulations==
There are no guides to being a crat. I'd suggest reading Grims misconduct archive and ''do the opposite''. 

My advice? Try not to fuck up. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  23:58, 21 October 2012 (BST)
:Grim just needed to be cleverer. For instance, edit the JS for the site so that it removed all log entries regarding the actions he's taking as he's taking them...wait...did I just say that out loud? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:23, 22 October 2012 (BST)
::{{*}}waits for the inevitable Aichon destroying UDWiki event* --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 00:53, 22 October 2012 (BST)
::::See? A better class of coup. (c) --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  01:16, 22 October 2012 (BST)
:What I wrote a guide to being a crat... At least, user rights tutorial? I think I did it while I was drunk, on your sysop tutorial page. I think.  {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 01:21, 22 October 2012 (BST)
:Also Congrats Aichon. While I'm fearful this added responsibility ''might'' burn you our earlier than being a simple sysop, hopefully it won't affect you! I am fearful of anything that will risk having you leave here sooner rather than later. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 01:59, 22 October 2012 (BST)
::Burn out is, for me, a combination of becoming more jaded than I would like and lacking as much interest in the game. For now, my interest is pretty steady. As for the other factor, I doubt being a Bureaucrat will have much of an effect on it either way. If it does though, then I'll wait for my term to be up before fading away for awhile, just like I did last time. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:15, 22 October 2012 (BST)
'''BURN THIS MOTHER DOWN!!'''--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>04:31, 22 October 2012 </small>
:Your comment has encouraged me to request demotion when tomorrow arrives. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:37, 22 October 2012 (BST)

{{cookie|Bob Moncrief|Aichon|beginning his term as bureaucrat. Congrats!}} {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:03, 22 October 2012 (BST)

{{knish|[[User:Sexualharrison|sexualharrison]]|[[User:Aichon|Aichon]]|beginning his term as bureaucrat. don't flame out in a week please.}}--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>01:32, 26 October 2012 </small>
:Success! It's been a week. Burn-out is really starting to set in, I have to say. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:41, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
'''SMASH THE SYSTEM!!''' -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 18:12, 26 October 2012 (BST)


==''urbandead'' skin==
It isn't editable, but look here. Maybe you can tell what the problems are [http://wiki.urbandead.com/skins/urbandead/main.css]. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>03:59, 30 October 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:Without being able to see the old version, I couldn't say. A quick guess would be that it could probably use an @import(Common.css) at the end. Doing so would import the styles from Common.css into that sheet so that they would be in there as well. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:11, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


== Hope I'm not overstepping my bounds ==
I have added a Suburb-sized danger report to the suburb template. I realized afterward I never really cleared it with anyone... so hopefully I'm not being a dick here. -[[User:Charles Whipplebotum|Charles Whipplebotum]] 03:47, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
:I have no problem with it (and even [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User_talk:DanceDanceRevolution&curid=56048&diff=2036285&oldid=2036273 said I liked] it 12 minutes before you mentioned it here :P), but yeah, typically you would want to run it by folks by mentioning it on the relevant talk page or else on a more populated talk page that was related to the topic. As it is, I'd just leave it and see if anyone comments. There's rarely any harm in trying to do something good on a wiki. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:51, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
::I was prepared to remove it if I found any problems with it on any of the suburb pages. Hopefully its well received. -[[User:Charles Whipplebotum|Charles Whipplebotum]] 04:06, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
:::I saw your update on the map. If you want you can use or copy our practice page, [[User:Peralta/Map_Project]]. -[[User:Charles Whipplebotum|Charles Whipplebotum]] 00:12, 2 November 2012 (UTC)


== A sports metaphor ==
I feel Boxy and Spider are both a slam dunk. Thoughts? --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  14:23, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
:Complete agreement. I think it's a safe bet that we can confirm both of them as successful re-evals. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 14:42, 4 November 2012 (UTC)


==None of this is my fault==
--[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  22:58, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
:Oh, LOL...I was actually referring to the messed up indentation when I wrote that, not to his defection. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:08, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
:Ross just basically gave a master class on conversion and manipulation. And the extra-touch of distancing himself from the converted target, making it look like a coincidence and natural occurrence...pure genius. Well played sir. Well played indeed. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 23:12, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
::What I wanted to do was convince major survivor groups to embrace better tactics. What I ended up with was another intelligent player willing to shoot me in my face.--[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  23:39, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
:::Perhaps this is an indication that major survivor groups and intelligence are mutually exclusive? And that intelligent people agree that you should be shot in the face? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:41, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
::::Am I suddenly an intelligent player or is there someone else out there who wants to shoot Ross? {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 23:42, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::Put it like this. I have a faction in another zombie game. The recruitment process is this. 1) You have to ask to join. 2) You can't be an idiot. It works pretty well. As for shooting me in the face is a welcome change from the slashfic. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  23:56, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::After some experience in the online gaming scene, I can imagine about 50% failing to get into your faction... {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 00:00, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::That high? --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  22:13, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::::I was feeling generous {{wink}} {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 19:40, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
:::I don't pretend to understand optimal survivor play, or the numerical modeling that Rosslessness bases his theories on; it is beyond my ability to grasp. But I do understand the overwhelming need to shoot Rosslessness in the face. It resonates with me on a very fundamental and personal level. -[[MHS|<span style="color: Black">'''MHS'''</span>]][[User_Talk:MHSstaff|<span style="color: DarkBlue">'''staff'''</span>]] 00:05, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
::::It does with all of us. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:10, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
::::Pfft why do you think the manhunts had such success once he joined? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 00:11, 9 November 2012 (UTC)


== My Project ==
I have immortalized you in my side project as a name of one of the Hydroelectric Dams. Just thought you should know.

[[User:TheBardofOld/Randomosity/Sandbox/Project1/Northwest|Click me!]]

Also, what happened to the discussion areas? It looks like the wiki sidebar was changed and is a tad harder to navigate, in addition to me not being able to find what I need. --{{User:TheBardofOld/Sig}} 07:25, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
:Oooh, that's awesome. Thanks!

:As for discussion areas, everything is still where it was before on the wiki, but the sidebar did get cleaned up a bit a few days back. It's possible you're looking for the [[Community Portal]]. It's currently in the middle of a redesign, so it was temporarily removed from the sidebar until the redesign is finished. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:53, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
::Ah, that's it. Neat. Thanks. --{{User:TheBardofOld/Sig}} 16:03, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
:::I think you just made a few people's days by asking for that, since there were questions of just how much it was actually being used by people. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 16:31, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
::::Awesome. Yeah, it's quite useful when trying to ask a question that anybody could answer. --{{User:TheBardofOld/Sig}} 16:35, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
:Doesn't a memorial imply that he's like.... dead? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 21:59, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
::He is. He just hasn't gone to an RotRevive yet. --{{User:DT/Signature}} 22:09, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
::Haven't you heard? Everyone is already dead. '''Dead''' --{{User:TheBardofOld/Sig}} 00:00, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
::''Immortalized'', not ''memorialized''. You can immortalize someone without memorializing them if the person is still alive. Memorializing is just what you call it when they're already dead. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:35, 12 November 2012 (UTC)


==Trixie for IE==
Hey, I just discovered Trixie for IE as a Greasemonkey alternative. Doesn't look like many of UD's userscripts are compatible, but perhaps they could be with a bit of work. Think you could be bothered to help try to make a small library of Trixie compatible userscripts? ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>21:31, 15 November 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:Sorry, but I made it a personal rule long ago to not spend more than a few minutes "fixing" my stuff to work with IE if my stuff is already working just fine in the other major browsers (unless I absolutely have to, such as for work or something that is outright breaking the wiki for IE users). If someone wants to tell me what scripts are broken in Trixie and can identify fixes that will let it work with Trixie while not breaking or slowing down things for anyone else, I'll add the fixes, but I'm not going to be doing any legwork to support IE. Especially so in this case, since IE intentionally chose to use their own blend of Javascript that was incompatible with the other browsers in order to lock people into using IE, which is why so many userscripts don't work with Trixie. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 22:17, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
::Fair enough. I don't know enough about javascript to offer any fixes. I played around a bit with a couple of scripts (Trixie has a built in script editor) but got nowhere. Its come up a few times in coversations with newbies and the answer has always been "Use Firefox". That's been a good enough answer so far so I'll just continue giving it. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>00:45, 16 November 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::Honestly, that's just good advice in general. IE continues to be a major vector for attacks against Windows. And while IE has taken some big leaps forward in the last few versions, it still has silly issues like these that it really shouldn't have. If this is what pushes people to Firefox, Chrome, Opera, or Safari (at least on Mac, where it's actually my preferred browser), that's all the better in my book. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:51, 16 November 2012 (UTC)


== [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=Help:Magic_Words&curid=12690&diff=2041895&oldid=1880673 PagesInCategory] ==
I got a little laugh out of seeing you add that. I guess I should have went ahead and added it to the page when I came across it [http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php?title=User:Klexur/Sandbox&diff=prev&oldid=2030128 two months ago]. =S --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 06:30, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:Yeah, I discovered it a few weeks or months back when a few of us were talking about how to automate the Featured Article thing on the front page. I just hadn't really looked at the Magic Words page since then, but  I was on it yesterday since I was making some other changes and needed to reference that page, so I figured I'd go ahead and finally add it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 13:53, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
::<nowiki>{{PAGESINCAT}}</nowiki> also works. But the variables |all, |pages, |files, and |subcats do not work for some reason. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>14:56, 19 November 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::You should add it to the Magic Words page. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 14:57, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
::::Yeah. Was playing with the variables to see if I could get them working. Probably disabled on our wiki. They are considered "expensive" parser functions. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>15:56, 19 November 2012 (UTC)</sub>


==A Request==
Howdy! Just re-installed a bunch of your scripts after a long absence from UD, and I'm loving them!
I have a request if you're looking for new projects.
A script that somehow stores in-game conversations (talking and radio broadcasts specifically)would be immensely useful.
Hope you're feeling up to it, but thanks in either case. {{User: Clint Clintstone/sig}} <sub> 19 November 2012</sub>
:There used to be [http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/27250 UDelorean], which seems to do what you need (store game output in a browsable way), but which has stopped to function since. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 19:45, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:It definitely would be, but I'm afraid it's something I won't be able to make due to some technical limitations. More or less, userscripts in some of the browsers can't store data from one page load to the next (at least as far as I know). If they did, there's a whole slew of other userscripts I could make, as well as several userscripts that I'd likely rewrite. Until they add it, or I find out some way to get around the limitations, I don't have a way to write a userscript for the idea you have while getting it to work across browsers, unfortunately. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:47, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
::Wouldn't it be possible to focus on the pure text output? No links, etc. for V1. Sort based on time, filter all radio broadcast and you'd have a radio broadcast database. For ingame conversations, I don't really see the use. It could revamp the whole radio concept a bit tho. <small>I know it's harder than I present it here, but I like reducing complex stuff to really easy sentences. Very often, it leads to a result {{smile}} </small> {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 19:55, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:::I don't see how what you're talking about addresses the problem I raised. Text is just data. I can store it temporarily, but as soon as the page loads again, that data is gone. That's the problem. Whether we're talking about text, links, or whatever else, it's all just data in the end, and I have no way to hang onto that from one page load to the next. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:00, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
::::Apologies, it seemed I misunderstood you :) How about a script that is handled manually (like the dumbwits) and copies only the radio data present on that single loaded page to a local storage? {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 20:05, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::If I could do that, it'd be storing the data from one page load to the next, which, as I said, is something I don't know how to do due to technical limitations in some of the browsers. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::All I can think of is a copy-paste macro, to a local HTML file which strips the new info of everything that's not a radio report or something. <small>Mind you, only basic IT knowledge here ^^ </small> {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 20:17, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::If we're talking userscripts, you can't do that, since the local files are off-limits for the most part. I do believe that there are some ways to take advantage of local, in-browser storage in HTML 5 (I don't know much of anything about how they work), but I'm not sure what sorts of access userscripts would have to those, since userscripts tend to have all sorts of browser security surrounding them to keep them from doing anything too crazy. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:20, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::::Scratch that: Can you explain me why the dumbwit can access all data on the page and we can't get to the text? {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 20:28, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::Dumbwit doesn't have any more access than anyone else. It merely transmits the data to a server out on the Internet, rather than storing it locally where we can use it again easily. As for the problem itself, normally I would try to think around it, as you suggested, but I'm a bit distracted at the moment, since I'm re-implementing the A/RE archive system (i.e. creating a new one from scratch, since we really don't have anything to speak of at the moment) as quickly as I can while also trying to get some work done at work. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:31, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::So, technically, we can export the data to a website? Once it's there, filtering and sorting it shouldn't be too hard, right? (Not sure why I even started with the whole local issue now). And no problem, I'll just keep an eye on this page, I think this could be another helpful resource :) {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 20:38, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::::Theoretically, yep, it's possible if you just use a bookmarklet instead of a userscript, which is what Dumbwit does. That said, I have no experience with those sorts of things, so I wouldn't be the go-to-guy for this sort of thing, I'm afraid. You might consider talking with Scoth, the guy who runs Dumbwit, instead (he's on IRC from time to time and is a really pleasant person to talk to). {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:50, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::::Yeah, I'm not gonna let this go until it has been proven it's impossible on this world I think :) Would you be so kind as to direct me to the correct IRC channel? {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 20:51, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Sorry, can't (various reasons). You might just try <code>/msg Scoth</code> to open a PM window with him instead. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:55, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Too bad. If you see him, tell him I'd like to have a chat with him and that he can reach me via the wiki or, if he prefers, via e-mail. {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 20:58, 19 November 2012 (UTC)


== Hello good sir ==
Can you code tooltips on linked text on the wiki? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 12:04, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
:[[Example Page|<span title="You mean like this?">Dunno</span>]]. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:03, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
::i luff u {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 15:49, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
:::Seconded. Too bad I forgot where and why I wanted to do this... {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 19:30, 20 November 2012 (UTC)


== Cade Advice template ==
I've been working on a barricade status template for locations. While I've considered several ideas so far, I started messing around with a sepparate one for [[Template:cadeEHB|EHB]], [[Template:cadeVSB|VSB]] and [[Template:opencade|open air]] locations, just to see what it looks like. I added it to the locations I actively maintain (right [[User:Peralta/Major|here]].
In the finished product, you can get either one by filling in a single templates with two variables (suburb and cading status), but for now, I'm looking for some feedback on the design and on how it looks on the pages. The idea is that it should just blend in with the rest of the page, so I'm avoiding background colors and tables etc. Any suggestions or other feedback? {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 13:26, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
:well for a start you'll need another No cades slot for internal RP's and intentionally ruined buildings designated as entry points. They're typically darks. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  13:33, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
::The advice here is given based on Barricade Plans, I didn't know there were plans that actually use intentionally ruined buildings (well, apart from zombie plans, that is)? {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 13:35, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
:::Griggs, off the top of my head. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  13:37, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
::::RRP in south b-ville is a documented case. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  13:40, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::Thanks, wasn't aware :) {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 13:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::[[Roftwood#Barricade_Plan_.26_Discussion|Roftwood]] is another existing example. Barricade plans that rely on wide open ruins aren't the norm, but they do occur and are often a sensible decision. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 18:29, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Good to know, it seems I once again had an idea with a ton of work hiding behind it ^^ . Since it's a bit more complex than I expected, I'm now torn between going for the statusreport format or the current idea of working it in the text. I'll try some in my userspace and show it to you guys then ;) Thanks for the feedback! {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 18:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)


==Poor Stub==
{{User:Peralta/RandomStub|{{User:Peralta/Signature}}}}
:Sorry, not really my thing. I've added flavor to a handful of locations of the years, but only as it makes sense to do so, and only on rare occasion. I mostly only ever see those pages for the half-second it takes me to click the link to update the status of the block, and even then, I don't update block statuses very often any more. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:19, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
::Well, in this case, it wasn't really for the actual meaning of the template that I showed it to you (since I haven't seen you involved in any of that stuff), rather the code behind it. I'm pretty damn happy with how it looks and everything, but you wouldn't happen to know how I could eliminate a location from the cycle after it gets de-stubbed without manually interacting?
::Also, 'cultural' activity lures more players than the current trend of 'policy' activity ;) {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 04:23, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
:::I leave the activity of both types to people who are more skilled at producing it. I just respond. ;)
:::As for the code, without actually looking into it enough to tell if it's a viable idea, the way I'd do this would be to create a switch with 6977 cases, one for each current stub location, then use the PAGESINCATEGORY magic word to select the one that corresponds to how many pages are in the category. As that category is removed from the pages, the PAGESINCATEGORY magic word will decrease, effectively acting as a countdown for the list, rather than randomly cycling through the items. You could then bump any of the more important locations towards the bottom of the list, where they will get serviced more quickly, and leave the less important ones near the top, where they may never be reached. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:33, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
::::With the problem being that I'd have to create a list of about 7.000 items and the whole thing would lose the cycling effect. I already considered it, but the reason I want to cycle through them as frequent as possible to avoid seeing the same one over and over again. Then again, I'm pretty sure I could make it cycle I think, using a new switch function inside the first one (but still: 7.000 item list). {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 04:44, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::Well, the list already exists. you'd just have to grab it 200 items at a time from the category page. And if people are actually updating things, then the location should cycle pretty often. Anyway, I think you could just copy/paste the list 200 items at a time into Excel in column A, then do <code>=CONCATENATE("case ",ROW(A1),": ",A1)</code> in column B to produce the text that you'd copy/paste directly into your switch template (just tested copying several items in column B and pasting into the wiki editor: it works as expected). Shouldn't take more than about an hour or so, I'd imagine. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:33, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::I've been playing around with it a bit, and the main thing I dislike about it is that it would make adding images to the template a lot harder. These are just selected (and the pattern designed to make sure there is a steady variation to motivate people) according to the time of day (and day of the week for 23 and 24) to match the location types. {{User:Peralta/Signature}} 02:01, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


== Button only project ==
Your comment to Johnny reminded me that I also had only one project that ever required the buttons and I've just remembered that I never completed it. There are about 250 [[:Category:Uncategorized Suggestions|uncategorized suggestions]] left. I did probably 400 when I had the buttons. This isn't so much a request for you to pick up the project as it is me putting it out there in case someone reading this feels the overwhelming need to do some mind-numbingly dull janitorial stuff that nobody will really care much about in the end. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>06:30, 25 November 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:Gonna be honest, I'm certain there have been many projects that I did that required buttons. But for the life of me, I can only remember about 2 of them. So I probably made up the rest in my head. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 07:22, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
:Wai hallo thar!--[[User:Shortround|<span style="color:Black">Short</span>]][[User talk:Shortround|<span style="color: Black">round</span>]] }.{ [[Special:Contributions/Shortround|<span style="color:Black">My Contributions</span>]] 14:47, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
::Wai thank you, wikizen. I hope you got a laugh out of some of the more ridiculous suggestions. Back then, it was my only consolation for doing it. I'm enjoying looking through the ones in Recent Changes right now. I can't believe the beards suggestion was rejected. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>17:35, 25 November 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::WHERE?!? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 01:56, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
::::[[ Suggestion:20091215 Beards]]. I'm tempted to open Beards V2 suggestion. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>01:58, 26 November 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:::::Oh my god. Brilliant. I can't believe I voted yes for it. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 02:08, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::Ironically, I voted no for it, and I'm growing a beard at the moment in real life since my company is doing No Shave November (though I'm unfortunately gonna be tidying it up in about five minutes since I have a client meeting tomorrow and neck beards aren't exactly proper for meetings with higher-ups in their company). {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:35, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Pfft, no shave november? So is it only Australians that call it Movember?!? {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 11:34, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::::I'm pretty sure most commonwealth do (i.e. Brits, Canada, etc.) although I may be wrong.--[[User:Shortround|<span style="color:Black">Short</span>]][[User talk:Shortround|<span style="color: Black">round</span>]] }.{ [[Special:Contributions/Shortround|<span style="color:Black">My Contributions</span>]] 13:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::I was under the impression they were different. "No Shave November" is older (I think) and involves growing an entire beard, while "Movember" is for prostate cancer awareness and involves just a moustache. (That's how it works in the States at least.) {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 14:12, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::Yep, the two movements are different, last I checked. No Shave November is just a simple beard growing competition for the sake of being manly (I was under the impression it was the newer of the two, however), while Movember is the growing of mustaches for prostrate cancer awareness (doubtless in response to the fact that October is breast cancer awareness month). {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:14, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::::Oh wow, fair enough. Never heard of no shave november. Although in recent years movember has really taken off in Aus at least. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 00:29, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Button projects? There's a few. Boxy's aborted attempt to move all the old suggestions into the new system, My (Monroeville) project, the semi protection of high profile pages thing, The Vandal data backdating (because of the page protection). I'll have a proper think. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  17:02, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
:Oh, there are definitely some button projects, but I was asking about ''personal'' button projects, i.e. the type that a regular user would have a reason to do. Boxy's suggestions and your Monroeville are good examples. The A/VD tidying is not so much of one, since it's simply a task being done by sysops to make the job of being a sysop easier for sysops. It's purely administrative in nature and won't help the general population of the wiki in any sort of direct way. The same is mostly true for semi-protecting pages, since it's just a preventative measure on the part of sysops to keep things clean so that there are less A/VB cases. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:14, 27 November 2012 (UTC)


== [[User:Rosslessness/Random_Rambling/Sandbox404]] ==
I need a good page title. Suggest. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  23:48, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
:Not sure that I have any good ones, but here are a few:
:*404ing Havercroft
:*Havercroft: From Ruins to Riches
:*A Case Study: 404 Reclaims Havercroft
:*How To (for Survivors): Steer Zombies
:*404 Magic: Enter, Rethink, Reclaim
:Not really loving any of them, but maybe they'll get someone else's juices flowing. I'm betting at least a half-dozen people will stalk this page by the end of the day, though I don't know how many will offer ideas, of course. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:05, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
::404;The charge of the life brigade, is my best choice so far. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  00:11, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
:::I'd drop the "the" from it, but that's pretty awesome. I like that better than any of the ones I offered. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:14, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
::::404ever. lul. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 01:46, 6 December 2012 (UTC) {{like|1}}
:::::... fuck you guys. I tried :'( {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 01:47, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
::::::I quite like fuck you guys, I'm tired. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  09:44, 6 December 2012 (UTC)


== Franklin ==
Just read Gnome's profile for you for the first time. Haha, man, you are really messed up. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 11:13, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
:Also, lol, the protagonist is surely safer with DDR, Ross, Karek (despite yon) than with You and ISCARIOT! Mwah hah hah. Have fun in your bus of doom. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 11:15, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
::Yeah, I first showed up in the bar, completely drunk. Which is ironic, since I've never even gotten buzzed, let alone flat-out drunk, in my life. And wait...are you just now exiting Caiger Mall? O_o
::Also, both buses get Ross, depending on which one the protagonist chooses (and similarly, the ''other'' bus always has RHO), and you forgot the bus drivers (SA/Sam Alberti and Mis/Volker). As much as I <3 SA, I'll take Mis driving my bus over SA any day (I could see SA driving off a bridge for the lulz). So in the end it's Mis, Ross, Izzy, Axe, Jen, Tammy, and myself to your SA, Ross, Karek, Yon, and you. So, not only do we have the more sane driver, but we also have the women. Have fun on ''your'' death bus. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 14:49, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
:::I don't mind which bus you take. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  18:53, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
:::I cant' remember where I'm up to. I reached the end once and promised to wait a while for Gnome to get far enough that I could last another hour before hitting the end again. Dunno where I'm at atm so I have to start back at the mall... {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 23:16, 6 December 2012 (UTC)


==Try email==
If you want to talk to Kevan about bots. He's sympathetic, but you'll probably have better luck if you email him direct. I'd be happy to help you formulate some new line of defense if you'd like to present it to him. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>03:40, 8 December 2012 (UTC)</sub>
:Yeah, I know I should have e-mailed, but I'm not that motivated. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 20:15, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
::Moar spambits, then. That'll motivate'cha. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>23:44, 10 December 2012 (UTC)</sub>


== i'm lazy. ==
hey can you whip me up a PK sig? if you have the time of course.--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>23:04, 9 December 2012 </small>
:[[User talk:Sexualharrison|<span style="border:solid 1px #af7817;padding:0px 1px;background-color:#e7dfce;color:#000;">'''אמת'''</span>]] <sup>[[Philosophe Knights|<span style="color:#af7817">PK</span>]]</sup> <-- Like this? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:08, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
::yup! perfect thanks!!--{{User:Sexualharrison/sig}}<small>02:49, 11 December 2012 </small>


== 98AP ruins ==
Mind to clue me in on the location of juicy 98AP ruins? I have there an idle Dual Nature ghost town reclaimer who hasn't seen a decent ghost town since 404 went into hibernation. If I have to ask in private, tell me where to head. --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">█ </span>]]</span>''' 17:27, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
:I still regret never idling a survivor in Borehamwood. I could repair that whole goddamn city now. (Given 60 years). --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  17:51, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
:Gnome has found quite a few recently while helping in my [[User talk:A Helpful Little Gnome#3D Quest|3D Quest]]. --{{User:Klexur/Signature}} 21:16, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
::If memory serves, it was over in Dunnell Hills, which should really come as no surprise. The SoC was just doing a competition for the last few weeks to do some general goodwill stuff around the entire Northwest, so a handful of our members were over there. They're all out now, so I don't see a point in it needing to be private. You can check the other dark buildings if you want. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 04:30, 17 December 2012 (UTC)


==SA gets his own section==
If it makes you feel any better, I actually do race professionally every now and again.--[[User:SA|SA]] 12:51, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
:I don't know what that's in reference to, but strangely, it does make me feel better. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 14:56, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
::"As much as I <3 SA, I'll take Mis driving my bus over SA any day (I could see SA driving off a bridge for the lulz)"--[[User:SA|SA]] 19:55, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
:::Oh, well, that wasn't a comment on your skills, clearly. It was a comment on your judgement. Your skills were never in doubt. :P {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:52, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
::::Mis can't drive, but that's won't stop Mis. Mis wants a bus. And maybe a pronoun or two. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:33, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
:::::I will get you the shortest bus money can buy some day. You fucking watch.--[[User:SA|SA]] 10:10, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
::::::I want it so short it can ride its own short bus. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 20:24, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Holy fucking shit, that is actually a pretty funny sounding idea. If I can ever get a hold of a pair of short buses IRL I will totally take a picture of it for you.--[[User:SA|SA]] 21:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Just so we're all clear on something, I <3 both of you. I also hate you both so much right now. I don't accept bribes, but I do take money under the table. Totally not a bribe though. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:49, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
:Why the fuck would I offer you money anyway? I'm a little lost on that. It was probably the vodka that night, as well.--[[User:SA|SA]] 21:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Huh, I thought karke added the SA header as well. Good catch I spose!--[[User:SA|SA]] 23:24, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
:I do what I can. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 23:27, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

I am no longer under consideration for ops, beeteedoubleyou.--[[User:SA|SA]] 02:11, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
:Indeed, so now I can say what I really think about you. Coincidentally, it's the same as what I say anyway. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 02:44, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
::Someone else still is though. :( {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 03:53, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
:::I gotta let Ross initiate ''some'' of the stuff around here, since I don't want people thinking I'm reliable. ;) Also, you're awesome too, as you already know. Seriously, both of you are in my top 10 of people I've met here. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 05:30, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
::::Clearly it's time for the Koup. --<small>[[User:Karek#K|Karek]]<sup><font face="Monotype Corsiva">[[User:Karek/ProjDev#Buildings_Update_Danger_Maps|maps 2.0?!]]</font></sup></small> 12:55, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
:::::I was ready for it, Herr Kommissar! I was ready and waiting! Then that evil Icon foiled the plan! D:  --[[User:SA|SA]] 00:05, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
::::::This is the point where I'd twirl my mustache if I had one. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:10, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


== Really? ==
Why now? --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  10:53, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
:You promised being able to relax, look important, and not do anything. Instead, I might actually have to make a decision! What's up with that? I trusted you! Much hate. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 15:24, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
::Thats the beauty of having a double team. I can say no and you can be all nice. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  15:46, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
:::Aww, but see, I can't do that, since then I'd be sticking you with something you don't deserve. It's one thing if you've already been the bad cop and it's more productive for getting something done just to have me play the good cop to your bad cop (which I feel has kinda happened a few times with Karek and myself), but it's different when we're actually both good cops and everyone knows it. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:54, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
::::Then let me be the bad cop. I'll be the baddest cop. I'll be Robert Zdar in ''Maniac Cop''. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 20:24, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
:::::Works perfectly well for me. For the purposes of this metaphor consider me Bruce Campbell in Maniac Cop 2. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  20:56, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
::::::I always pictured you more as Bruce Campbell in ''The Man with the Screaming Brain'' (you know, not really being paid attention to). {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 21:32, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
:::::::Which is never good, if you're also the director. --[[User talk:Rosslessness|Ross Less Ness]] <sup>[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERLLUoZn0mM Enter Stranger...]</sup>  21:39, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

I demand a third opinion from a third 'crat. Oh wait... --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 22:53, 25 December 2012 (UTC)


== Question ==
I am trying to [[User:Kirsty_cotton/sandpit | offer myself]] like a cheap hooker, but I have concern no one will notice.  I'd hate to miss out on any good trolling comments, so is there a way for me to make this more visible?  Other than post on your talk page, which I just did. --<sub>[[User_talk:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 22:46, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
:I think I'm a little unclear. Should people be pitching their groups? Or character traits/gameplay styles? {{User:Bob Moncrief/Sig}} 23:58, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
::Groups.  I don't really know any group I'm not in that I want to join. --<sub>[[User_talk:Kirsty_cotton|<span style="color: lightgrey">K</span>]]</sub> 01:41, 27 December 2012 (UTC)


== <3 ==
--[[User:Shortround|<span style="color:Black">Short</span>]][[User talk:Shortround|<span style="color: Black">round</span>]] }.{ [[Special:Contributions/Shortround|<span style="color:Black">My Contributions</span>]] 01:19, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
:Always happy to help. ;) {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 01:20, 31 December 2012 (UTC)