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===Talk Like A Pirate Day===
{|
|'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Aphaythea|Aphaythea]] 09:40, 7 August 2010 (BST)
|-
|'''Type:''' Flavor
|-
|'''Scope:''' All or None
|-
|'''Description:''' Not all of us celebrate Christmas and and although Halloween can be fun for almost everyone, Talk Like A Pirate Day is coming up again. And that happens to be a favorite of mine.
It's nothing anyone would HAVE to do, just like the other holidays. But I think finding eyepatches, peglegs, and maybe even a dead parrot might be good for a laugh. Going on with the everyday fighting is great but can get a bit dull once in awhile. Kevan wouldn't have to change the text to Pirate (but it would be neat if he did, facebook has the option of "pirate-speak" under languages. Google even has a homepage in Pirate.) just toss a few new items on the mall floor for us to find, at the same odds as halloween costumes. Arrrrr...

Info on Talk Like A Pirate Day; "www.talklikeapirate.com" 
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Talk_Like_a_Pirate_Day"
|}
====Discussion (Talk Like A Pirate Day)====

Never heard of this "Pirate Day". Oh, and I hate flavor. --[[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]][[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''''Thadeous Oakley''''']][[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]]</span> 12:03, 7 August 2010 (BST) 
:You be nought but a lubber then matey. I says we should make ye walk the plank, all who be with me yell YAARGH! --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 12:22, 7 August 2010 (BST)
::In case its not obvious.... I would '''Vouch''' :) --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 12:22, 7 August 2010 (BST)
:::But then, what about the ninjas :0 ?--[[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]][[User:MisterGame|<span style= "color: maroon; background-color: white">'''''Thadeous Oakley''''']][[Image:Umbrella-White.png|14px]]</span> 12:35, 7 August 2010 (BST)
::::Pirates > Ninjas.--{{User:Drawde/Sig}} 13:10, 7 August 2010 (BST)
:::::Ahoy there, mateys! Aye, yon whippersnapper above speaks the truth. And seein' as we be marooned in this 'ere town o' Malton, we may as well talk like maroons! 'Tis sure to shiver ye timbers and make ye cower inside yer EHB fo'c'sle to hear yonder zombies a-cryin' "Yaarrrgh!" instead o' "Graaagh!" Now get ye'seln off my poop deck an' back in yon crow's nest - I hates to see seamen runnin' all o'er my ship.--{{User:Mallrat/sig}} 13:13, 7 August 2010 (BST)
::::::We'd also need "ARRRRRR!" in the drop-down menu for babah zambahs. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 15:54, 7 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::'''Thad Wrote''' "But then, what about the ninjas :0 ?"
:::::::I'll tell you what. Fuck Ninja's! That's what :)--[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 20:48, 7 August 2010 (BST)
{{Quote||Hari Krishnas, who are descended from Ninjas, banded together at various seaports (And later airports) and declared a holy war against the Pirates, By tens of thousands, maybe even dozens, they boarded steel-plated kayaks and paddled out in search of Pirates, whom they intended to annihilate from the four corners of the earth. You might think that the FSM would have noticed the Hari Krishnas and protected His Chosen People, but He mistook the Krishnas for just another musical band of seagoing beggars, or maybe fishermen singing their shanties, and He let them pass unharmed. As the first Krishnas arrived at a Pirate ship on Halloween, the Pirates mistook them for overly dedicated trick-or-treaters. What followed next was mass slaughter as the Pirates tried to pass out treats while the Krishnas beat and sliced them to death with their double-bladed kayak paddles. Sadly, this pattern was repeated several times that day, the next year was even worse.|His Holiness, Bobby Henderson}}
::::::::I would be willing to sacrifice DDR for Talk Like a Pirate Day. Every time someone says something, each sentence can end with ", arrrr". "Kill and cade, arrrr!" "Ran, harmanz, ran, arrrr!" "You are being executed for PKing, arrrr." --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 21:19, 7 August 2010 (BST)

Short answer: No. Long answer: Talk Like A Pirate day is a day for faggoty schoolkids to have a couple of deliberately naive lulz and just be stupid. I know I sound quite jaded, but the pirate phase IMO is shit, Pirates of the Caribbean is actually a very below-average movie franchise and cowboys will always be the immortal symbol for badass and cool. Even if cowboys didn't exist though, I'm finding it hard to believe I'd turn closer to Pirates for my costumed fun. Maybe, just maybe, for [[April Fools]], Kevan can implement the old "werewolf" character but with pirates, cowboys, ninjas, robots, chewbacca and any other gay nerdgasm inducing things just for a day. I'd like that. But talk like a pirate day is the gay of the gay. Why? Because it's like, the gayer half of the already gay pirate subculture, the latter of which I can at least bare. 

I know this outburst seems uncalled for. No, I didn't witness my mother's death at the hand of pirates and I didn't get dumped by my highschool sweetheart on Talk Like A Pirate day, these would excuse uncalled for reactions to this suggestion. All I can say is that I don't consider this response a personal attack, but sorry: I'll leave UD if anything this lame happens, even for one day. I'm gonna go there: I'd even rather see September 13's Stephanie Meyer day be celebrated in UD than talk like a pirate day. Sorry. -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 15:18, 7 August 2010 (BST)
:tl;pd--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 15:49, 7 August 2010 (BST)

Tecnically, the same day is Adam West's birthday, so a batman themed day would be far more interesting.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 17:40, 7 August 2010 (BST)
:Rename Free-Running to Bat-Climb. And let [[Example Page|a random 60's VIP with this profile link]] yell something inane whenever that skill is used.
:'''Since your last turn:''':
:* ''You've bat-climbed the Blackmoor Building half-way. (just now)''
:* ''[[Example Page|Curly Of The Three Stooges]] opened the window and yelled "Help Batman! A clamp has eaten all the crackers in my soup!" at you. (just now)''
:* ''You've finally reached an opening above [[Example Page|Curly Of The Three Stooges]]'s window, and entered the Blackmoor Building. You look around for them. They are nowhere to be found anymore. (just now)''
:--{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 18:11, 7 August 2010 (BST)
::What suit of cards lays eggs!--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 18:20, 7 August 2010 (BST)
:::I think DDR be secretly attract'd to pirates, arrr. That be why he said he could "bare" gay pirates instead o' "bear" them. A Freudian slip o' the tongue, methinks! - or mebbe just too much o' the ship's grog. Avast!--{{User:Mallrat/sig}} 19:07, 7 August 2010 (BST)
----

===A New Facebook App===
{|
|'''Timestamp:''' {{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 04:48, 7 August 2010 (BST)
|-
|'''Type:''' Facebook, but Urban Dead related
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|'''Scope:''' Mostly everyone
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|'''Description:''' I'm sure most of you use Facebook, and I'm sure most of you have used/are currently using Kevan's [http://apps.facebook.com/urbandead/ UD Character List] app for Facebook.  Of course, that's just it.  It's only a way to list your character, nothing fancy.

I want to see a new Facebook app directly relating to UD in terms of playability, although not quite exactly like UD itself.  Something like a "choose your own path" thing that dates back to the beginning of the outbreak, before the military quarantined the city.  Or something that has a set storyline, like your basic RPG game, that occurs during the quarantine.
|}
====Discussion (A New Facebook App)====
Thoughts?  Comments?  Ideas?  Let's hear 'em. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 04:49, 7 August 2010 (BST)


Fucking no. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 04:51, 7 August 2010 (BST)
:As Mis. Also, you're very wrong, Axe, regarding what you're "sure" about. I can't stand Facebook (the original incarnation of it, back when it was just a few universities involved and only around 10k people, was tolerably decent, but it's only gone downhill since then), nor have I ever heard of that other app. Nor would I want Kevan using his time making another one I'll never use. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 10:47, 7 August 2010 (BST)
::he did kinda say "most" --{{User:Drawde/Sig}} 10:56, 7 August 2010 (BST)

This kinda thing though, provided it contained a link back to urbandead.com, would attract a whole new bunch of players. I like the idea.--{{User:Drawde/Sig}} 10:56, 7 August 2010 (BST)
:This. --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 11:16, 7 August 2010 (BST)

I can't see any problems with this, except that Kevan doesn't seem to have much time for this game these days, that said its not really a 'game' suggestion so it will probably be best turned into a project and linked to kevan's page when you have a taster of what it might look like? --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 12:27, 7 August 2010 (BST)

First off, this is a dupe 100-fold. I don't think it's ever escaped DS due to heavy flaming, but it's still been here hundreds of times before. Secondly, apps can be made by anyone. Make one yourself.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 12:34, 7 August 2010 (BST)
:^. Not as aggressive as above people but this is, as far as DS discussion goes, an UUULLLTTRAAAA DUPE!!! The REAL problem with just saying that and not backing it up is that in the older versions of this, there were some ''really'' good reasons why this shouldn't happen, but I've since forgotten them :( So sorry I can't be of any more help with why this shouldn't happen -- {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/sig3}} 13:04, 7 August 2010 (BST)


Oh sweet Okami Amaterasu mother to us all shit no. This is NOT an Urban Dead suggestion; it's a facebook suggestion, and I'd much rather kevin take the time he won't take to start implementing some of the 95-100% peer reviewed ideas around here than make some facebook app for all the people who are too lazy and shallow to connect to others without a third party intermediary to dictate terms.{{User:Lelouch/sig}} 20:37, 7 August 2010 (BST)

===Dumping Bodies===
{|
|'''Timestamp:''' {{User:Giles Sednik/sig}} 21:51, 4 August 2010 (BST)
|-
|'''Type:''' Game Mechanic Change
|-
|'''Scope:''' Minor
|-
|'''Description:''' Currently when you dump bodies, you have no control over which bodies you dump, regardless of whether the bodies are in your contacts list or if they are strangers.  What I propose is that when there are bodies on the ground that you can identify, then you receive a drop down menu from which you can select either the specific names, or just "a body".<br>
This would add tactical merit to maintaining contacts lists of your friends, who you might not want to throw out into the street.  It's always seemed a bit strange to me that you can see 3 bodies on the ground, and you can recognize two of them as your best friends, but the game forces you to have no choice but to randomly chuck bodies out onto the street and hope it isn't one of your friends. That is all.
|}
====Discussion (Dumping Bodies)====
I think everyone pretty much looks the same when they got no head and their clothing is an indistinct blood-drenched wreck.  Still, this is likely to slow people down when they try to dump selectively instead of dump 'em all and let the revivers sort 'em out, and I'm all in favor of enabling foolishness to punish itself. --[[User:Nuisance|Nuisance]] 21:59, 4 August 2010 (BST)

I think this is a dupe, but I couldn't find it. It certainly seems like it came up before. The against argument was focused around zombie anonymity, whereas the for was reaslism and usefulness.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 22:02, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:Zombie Anon has no place as a counter here. This idea provides no new information to distinguish zombies, and the only way it has an effect is if you can already pick them out of a crowd (or pile, as it were){{User:Lelouch/sig}} 22:47, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::I believe (if the discussion really took place) that the argument concerned it being unfair on zombies, who are naturally defended by rank corpses protecting their identities. I'm not saying I agree with the argument, but that's what it was.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 22:51, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:::Actually it does provide new info and will allow defenders to throw out the rotters they have tagged while leaving their reviving compatriots inside! --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 23:44, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::::So it nerfs zombie meatshielding, but not anonymity; anon is a zombie's ability to remain anonymous.{{User:Lelouch/sig}} 01:22, 5 August 2010 (BST)
:::::I'm hesitant to call it a nerf, as it doesn't impede a zombie's ability to meatshield.  Meatshielding is all about getting into the building and forcing survivors to kill you.  Rather it would be a small boost to the survivor dump, in very special situations where the identities of the bodies on the ground are known.  However there will almost always be a level of imperfect information, and it will almost always be impossible to get everyone in the building to share the same contacts lists.
:::::For example, let's say there is a zombie break in with 10 zombies who kill 6 survivors, and the zeds are subsequently killed by the remaining survivors.  There are now 16 bodies on the floor.  If you log in you might have 3 or 4 of those zombies on your contacts list and you might have 3 or 4 of the survivors (if you are very organized about your contacts).  So for a vigilant survivor they might be able to identify 8 bodies and act appropriately when dumping them, however if you want to clear out the remaining bodies (which would be a good idea) you will almost certainly end up throwing some friendly survivors out onto the street.  This is a desirable level of confusion and randomness.<br>
:::::So essentially, this would only be a significant "boost" in buildings with very small organized groups of survivors who maintain up to date contacts lists of their friends and enemies.  If someone is going to be that organized they should be rewarded with the advantage of being able to dump the rotters and leave their friends to stand up inside.<br>
:::::In most situations the benefits of this game change would be negated by other well-meaning survivors who can't distinguish friend from foe and are forced to blindly dump bodies.  However this would remove a very annoying and illogical mechanic from the game, therefore increasing the fun level of playing.  That's just my take anyway.  But I put the suggestion here so people can find flaws in the idea, and to get some other opinions.--{{User:Giles Sednik/sig}} 01:50, 5 August 2010 (BST)
::::::Oh, didn't see you posted this Giles. Yeah, this isn't too bad an idea. Shame there's almost no chance of more suggestions being implemented; the last thing I saw that sucked as less as this was the belowmentioned survivor class skills that Devorac came up with.{{User:Lelouch/sig}} 03:13, 5 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::Yarp.  There's a pretty good pile of better ideas than this that have gone through to peer reviewed and will likely never be implemented.--{{User:Giles Sednik/sig}} 10:58, 5 August 2010 (BST)
----

===Specific Class Bonus===
{|
|'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Axemaniac johnson|Axemaniac johnson]] 18:39, 2 August 2010 (BST)
|-
|'''Type:''' Survivor Skills
|-
|'''Scope:''' All Survivor Classes
|-
|'''Description:''' When you start the game, you choose a class or to start as a corpse. Thing is, even though they all start out with a specific skill suited to their class, eventually all classes can end up with the same skills, meaning in the long run there is no real advantage to a class picked. I am not going to bring in the realism argument, as that is not how the game works, but I do like the idea of a certain skill being available only to that class and never being able to be learned. Even then, it does not even have to be a skill, maybe just a bonus of some sort so as to not be overpowering. The following are not even proper sugesstions, but just an idea as to what I mean. For example, the doctor could start with an extra small % chance to find FAKs in hospitals or a very small % chance to find them in different building types where no other class could find them. A soldier could get a similar bonus in forts, policemen in Police Stations, etc. These bonuses can NEVER be available to other classes, just to add a tiny bit of uniqueness to the classes.
|}
====Discussion (Specific Class Bonus)====
Screws over all the people who existed before this suggestion.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 19:48, 2 August 2010 (BST)
:Yeah, and this was done better before with actual benefits thought out. Remember that idea? I liked it...{{User:Lelouch/sig}} 21:27, 2 August 2010 (BST)
::Michaelson's idea, I think? Is that what you mean? Yeah, it was interesting. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:39, 2 August 2010 (BST)
:::'''CHANGE''' Yea it screws me over. Maybe make it a certain skill class can ''buy'' because I'm a Firefighter, and 75% percent to hit someone with a fire axe for 100-200xp would be AMAZING! That would be great. So Change the idea to certain skills you can ''buy'' and see what kind of reception it gets.--{{User:Jerrel Yokotory/signature}}. 21:45, 2 August 2010 (BST)
::::I thought it was Devorac. Although [[User:Devorac/Mad_Science_Laboratory|her idea]] was rather based on an added learning-by-doing system (use 9.000 FAKs etc.), than on sticking with the standard skill system. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 21:46, 2 August 2010 (BST)
:::::Ah, yep, it was Devorac. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 21:54, 2 August 2010 (BST)
::::::Yeah, I loved that one. Also: Devorac's a her? Whatever, I'll keep calling him a male until he tells me otherwise; I'm not sexist. Wait, what?{{User:Lelouch/sig}} 22:29, 2 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::For the record, that was a funny comment.--{{User:Jerrel Yokotory/signature}}. 22:32, 2 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::Who says it cannot be added retro-actively? Like I say, I don't think skills would be a good idea as they are too "powerful", but some small class bonus could be applied to existing as well as new players. Like I say, the bonuses could be tiny things, but I just think that it would help add some extra character and RP to the classes. As it is all characters evolve into identical beings at the moment. and at least with class bonuses there would be a little bit more diversity. Oh, nice one, Lelouch, glad to see you're still contributing constructive advice. I don't even know you, but God you remind me of the posters over at GameFAQs already - and no, that is not a compliment. - --[[User:Axemaniac johnson|Axemaniac johnson]] 23:36, 2 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::Inevitably, one skill will be the best. Everyone who isn't that class is therefore screwed over, and everyone who took the worst skill class (Probably zombies) is screwed more.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 23:40, 2 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::That is why I say no skills .. make it just a character class bonus. A small thing that each class gets, including zombie. A daft bonus that CANNOT be learned by any other class at any time, and like I say just make them small and daft, not overpowered. Just something to further define and individualise the classes. --[[User:Axemaniac johnson|Axemaniac johnson]] 06:15, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::I reckon he might be on to something there... --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 07:57, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::'''Repeat:''' "''Inevitably, one will be the best. Everyone who isn't that class is therefore screwed over, and everyone who took the worst class will be screwed even more.''" --{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 15:58, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::: We're talking about adding one or two percent to search rates for one item here (I thought). It's hard to make that overpowered. --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 16:33, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::So basically it's going to be so small that it never effects anything? It's either going to be that or give one group of people an advantage which other people weren't given the option of.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 17:21, 3 August 2010 (BST)
::::::::::::::So small that it never affects anything sounds good to me. --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 18:04, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::::If it doesn't effect anything, there's no point suggesting it. It would be a waste of time to implement, and wouldn't solve any problems.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 19:40, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::::: And if it does affect anything, it'll be unbalanced and impossible to implement. Great. --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 09:44, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:::::::::::::::::And you now understand the fallacy of the suggestions system.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 17:14, 4 August 2010 (BST)
<center> Dawkins: ''Walks offstage with a revolver''<br></center>
<center>''A shot is heard''<br></center>
<center>FIN<br></center>  

::::::::::::::::::--{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 18:10, 4 August 2010 (BST)


I've always wanted something to give a little distinction to each class so I offer the following for discussion/abuse:
*'''Speed Load''' 1% chance of reloading costing 0AP. '''Millitary'''
*'''Diagnosis''' 1AP to use and highlights the first injured survivor in your location who is also infected. '''Science'''
*'''Home Turf''' 1AP to check a scent death type map highlighting Hospitals,PD's, Malls and Fire Stations '''Civillian'''
*'''Restless Dead''' 1% chance of automatically standing up if someone tries to dump your dead (not reviving) body. This will cost 0AP but your HP will be equal to your current AP. '''corpse'''
*'''STAY DOWN''' 50% chance to negate corpse class special skill. '''Zombie Hunters'''
Each of these will require you to have completed your starting class skill tree and cost 100XP Obviously the zombie one seems more powerful but it is also the only one that can be negated... --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 15:38, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:Except Zombie Hunter isn't a class.--{{User:Yonnua Koponen/signature2‎}} 15:58, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:::I know ZH's are not a class but they do need another skill.--[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 17:10, 3 August 2010 (BST)
::Someone is onto something here. Those were excellent skills. But, will the players already in the game be able to buy them?--{{User:Jerrel Yokotory/signature}}. 16:05, 3 August 2010 (BST)----
:::And 'Diagnosis' is already a skill... --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 16:33, 3 August 2010 (BST)
::::Oops, but the names not so important as the effect. Hows about "infection control" instead? --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 17:10, 3 August 2010 (BST)

The science classes already have a bonus, they earn 2XP per successful use of books. Just thought I'd point out that class differences aren't unheard of. - [[User:Whitehouse]] 17:20, 3 August 2010 (BST)

Ok, after some thought, here are a few "rough" ideas for bonuses. Police have a 1% chance to find ammo at Clubs as they may know where to look for hidden weps, etc. Doctors get a 1% chance to build FAKs in Fire Stations and Police Stations as there may be stuff strewn around. Scout gets a 1% chance to not use 1AP when Free Running between buildings. Medic adds 1 extra HP when healing other Military types. Fireman gets a 1% chance to find fuel in hospitals and museums. Now here I am just guessing, as I do not know if a Zombie does damage to Barricades or just auto wrecks them as I have never played one. A zombie picked at start has a 1% chance to cause extra damage point to barricades. Hmm, like I say, all rough, but give you an idea of how small I think the bonuses could/should be and should not be looked on as adding great new skills. --[[User:Axemaniac johnson|Axemaniac johnson]] 19:41, 3 August 2010 (BST)
:I got the impression these were for characters who had bought all their skill set which makes the Cop bonus a bit pointless. I assume you mean for doctors to find FAK's as they are not built. Saving an AP while scouting might be fine but very meh. The medic bonus makes no sense.... are none millitary persons a defferent species that don't heal the same way? The fireman buff is pretty big compared to others as hospital searches are very common. Finally the zombie one; you do know that attacking barricades is the single most common zombie activity don't you? On average my zombies probably spend 2 thirds or more of their daily AP scratching at cades. 1% of those attacks causing an extra level to collapse might not seem much but believe me it would stack up pretty quick accross the whole city.--[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 09:05, 4 August 2010 (BST)
::Like I said, bud, if you had looked, I do not know how zombies work and just said they could maybe do an extra HP of damage to a barricade. If that's not how it works, then look for another bonus for them. The medic bonus .. well, the medic is a military class and I just thought it would be a small bonus to heal other miltary slightly better. Like I have been told countless times here, it is not about realism, so it goes ok with that train of thought. Another thing, I clearly stated that these were very rough ideas and as you  can see that is exactly what they are. I also said the bonuses should be small, but just enough to add another layer of description to a class to make them different. --[[User:Axemaniac johnson|Axemaniac johnson]] 15:25, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:::Not sure why I am detecting a note of hostility in your reply (probably the use of "bud") but anyhoo. I am not sure how zombies damaging cades works either but I am certain that its not based on each level having HP's so that 1% chance is going to take down a whole level each time it comes up, I suppose it could just be added straight to the zombies chance of damaging the cade (ie from 15% to 16%) but that ends up as being a pretty huge boost rather than just a little bonus. Thematically it doesn't really fit either, what makes you naturally better at this than any other zombie? I really am not trying to tear into your idea, rather I am just trying to point out problems with them.... I kinda assumed thats why you put em in writting in the 1st place? --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 15:56, 4 August 2010 (BST)

Just let this die; Devorac's was way better, and it didn't go through. Is it rude of me to refer to Dev as a tranny? What's even the pronoun for that? Schler?{{User:Lelouch/sig}} 22:52, 4 August 2010 (BST)
:Maybe modify the percents (1% Fail) to like 10-20%, and change the skill ideas, and come back later.--{{User:Jerrel Yokotory/signature}}. 16:33, 5 August 2010 (BST)
----

===Hardened Equipment (Generators and Radio transmitters)===
{|
|'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Scubamatt|scubamatt]] 02:14, 31 July 2010 (BST)
|-
|'''Type:''' Balance Change
|-
|'''Scope:''' Affects humans who try to sabotage Generators/Radio Transmitters
|-
|'''Description:''' I'm still pretty new to the game, but I was in Ft. Creedy for the last Big Bang attack. One thing that seemed to tip the balance hopelessly against the defenders was the way a death cultist/PKer (whatever you want to call them) could enter the base, then shoot up the generator/radio. They did this constantly, preventing the defenders from searching for supplies and coordinating their defenses. There appears to be no defense against this tactic. Likewise, there seems to be no similar tactic available for the humans to use against zombie hordes. That seems to be an overpowering advantage for zombie groups who use human spies/saboteurs. If generators and radios were immune to damage ''from humans'', this would eliminate GK/RK by spies. You could still destroy them as a zombie, just not as a human spy. PKers could still kill other players individually, but they couldn't instantly affect dozens or even hundreds of human defenders with a handful of shots. I haven't seen any other tactic in the game that allows one player to radically affect hundreds of other players at the same time - but allowing humans to kill generators and radios certainly has a negative impact on every human defender in the area. Anyway, that's my suggestion and I hope I put it in the right area (I'm still new to the wiki, too LOL).
|}
====Discussion (Hardened Equipment (Generators and Radio transmitters))====
''I haven't seen any other tactic in the game that allows one player to radically affect hundreds of other players at the same time'' I have. It's called "hooking up and fueling a genny", and GKing is just the counter against it. That being said, completely removing GKing would remove a lot of death-culting, would take away one of the very few ways zombies can go ahead in the AP race, would hurt PKers and desperate survivors who can't put out those lights in dark buildings... It's just A Bad Idea(TM), plain and simply. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 02:55, 31 July 2010 (BST)
: Spiderzed speaks the truth. This is a horrible idea, even from a pro-survivor perspective. I have personally GK'd in dark building just to make it harder to be killed by the Death Cultists you speak of. No Way. -[[User:Austin hunt|<span style="color:green">Austin</span>]] [[User Talk:Austin hunt|<span style="color:blue">Hunt</span>]] 05:14, 31 July 2010 (BST)

::Perhaps I should have said ''I haven't seen any other tactic in the game that '''so easily''' allows one player to radically affect hundreds of other players at the same time''. Hooking up and fueling a generator also means AP spent searching for a generator and AP spent searching for fuel. GKing takes a few stabs with a knife. That's a huge disparity in AP spent for results. The fuel and generator are destroyed, but the GKer still has a knife.
::Spiderzed, you said that removing GKing will hurt desperate survivors who can't put out lights in a dark building (?), presumably to protect themselves from the Death Cultists that Austin refers to - but in the same sentence you say that removing GKing will eliminate a lot of those same Death Cultists. That seems to negate Austin's argument - he won't need to kill the generator to delay his death at the hands of Death Cultists, if there are a lot less Death Cultists there in the first place. From reading Kevin's FAQ, the game was originally intended to be a 2 sided fight. Humans versus zombies. He is OK with humans killing humans (PK) since that fits the apocalyptic flavor of society disintegrating. But what you have now is Survivors on one side, versus the other side which has Zombies, Death Cultists (humans who use human abilities to disrupt survivor activity, specifically to help zombies), and PKers (humans who kill other humans to disrupt survivor activity, which indirectly helps zombies). There is little a zombie can do to help a survivor group (ZK), compared to what a human can do to help a zombie group (GK, RK, PK, use transmitters to broadcast false information, etc). By eliminating human-sourced GK/RK, you reduce the number of spy/saboteurs (Death Cultists) and bring a little more balance to the original 'survivor vs zombie' game. There will still be PK and Death Cultists, but they won't be able to affect things on a large scale for a handful of AP.--[[User:Scubamatt|scubamatt]] 08:56, 31 July 2010 (BST)
:::That's the survivor shtick. They can't trust each other for beans (not only because they could be DCs, but also because they generally don't get along as reliably as zombies), but when things don't go wrong, they mow down their foes. This is no different. It's easy for the genny to die, but if the survivors are lucky enough to keep it, they can find all the supplies they need extremely quickly. The survivors have the real advantage when it comes to gennies. They invest ~30AP to set it up, knowing that, one day, someone will spend ~10AP to take it down. But before it is taken down, any amount of AP could be saved on searching. It's up to the survivor to guess how much that will be. If they think they'd save survivors more than 20AP, then they set it up and profit. If not, they keep it until later, then set it up, and profit. If gennies were balanced in favor of DCs, no one would be setting them up. --{{User:TripleU/Sig}} 09:13, 31 July 2010 (BST)
::::I see the logic here ... in a roomful of people, a PK'er may get away with attacking another player as survivors may just think they had a private argument and would let them resolve it. But for a roomful of people just to let some guy shoot/stab a genny is just mad. Maybe some skill/skill tree could be included that allowed for a survivor to be alerted to genny damage and defend it ... even if afk, as long as they had some AP spare. Genny killing may be a tactic here and there, but in a highly barricaded mall with lots of people safe and looking for goods, if someone was to GK there, they should be questioned or attacked for it. --[[User:Axemaniac johnson|Axemaniac johnson]] 13:39, 31 July 2010 (BST)
:::::Dark places aren't just protection from death-cultists - they are also protection from PKers and zombies, making them also dang useful for survivors in the right circumstances, such as when you need a at least semi-safe sleeping place in a ghost town or during a MOB slaughter-fest, or when you happen to have made yourself such a high-profile PKer target as Kittithaj. That aside, like others already said, death-cultists have become an important part of the game, having their own groups as [[RDD]] or [[Batshit Insane]] and also being important parts of major zombie hordes as [[The Ridleybank Resistance Front/Gore Corps|RRF]] or [[Feral Undead]]. Any suggestion aimed at effectively removing them would get spaminated within hours. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 15:48, 31 July 2010 (BST)

As spiderzed above--just no. PKing and Death Culting are legitimate ways of playing the game, and if Kevan didn't approve of them he could have don't something about it years ago. In fact, for such a large group of survivors, I would ask why more of you weren't carrying spare gennies and fuel. --{{User:Maverick Farrant/sig}} 14:17, 31 July 2010 (BST)
:That's spurious logic, Maverick. If nothing is ever changed because the developer 'could have' changed it before now, there would be no need for a suggestion page. If you have a legitimate reason why this can't or shouldn't work, then explain it. I'm pretty sure that you don't speak for Kevan in any case. As for everyone carrying generators and fuel, you neatly ignored the issue of AP cost I gave above. It takes a lot more time (AP) to scavenge a generator and fuel, and it takes up significant room in your inventory until used. Using TripleU's example above, one cultist with a knife can kill 3 generators (and their fuel, since it's wasted when the generator is destroyed) for the same AP cost it took you to find and set up one (1) generator. There is no current method in the game to prevent a GK. All you can do is tie up lots of people (by loading up with extras of fuel and generators, then having them stay logged in and refreshing the screen). When a cultist or zerger destroys your generator, you can set up another one and then try to kill him before he does it again, and again. The advantage goes to him, because once he kills the generator, your chance to hit him is halved. As soon as you set one up, his chance to hit the generator goes back up. With two or more cultists (one GKer, the others healing him with FAKs) this could continue for a very long time, even in the face of an angry mob. Eliminating human-source damage to generators and transmitters wouldn't affect PKers much at all - only those cultists and spies who call themselves PKers while they sabotage defenses from inside.--[[User:Scubamatt|scubamatt]] 19:40, 31 July 2010 (BST)<small>—The preceding [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Scubamatt|Scubamatt]] ([[User talk:Scubamatt|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Scubamatt|contribs]]) at an <span class="stealthexternallink">[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=history}} unknown time]</span>.</small>
I don't think Spiderzed meant that Death Culting would stop, just that there would be less for death cultists to do. Now, on to something more important. "There is no current method in the game to prevent a GK." Yes. Yes there is. Its called [[Civilian Skills#Construction|repairing]] [[Useful Items#Toolbox|a]] [[Useful Items#Portable Generator|generator]]. Also, sign your comments. -[[User:Austin hunt|<span style="color:green">Austin</span>]] [[User Talk:Austin hunt|<span style="color:blue">Hunt</span>]] 15:26, 31 July 2010 (BST)
:A toolbox is a good friend of a survivor. In real-time combat, a GKer (who needs 5 hits with 50% chance) can _never_ outstrip a repairer (who just needs to repair once with 100% chance). Especially in crowded places as malls and NTs, this has more than once spoiled my GKing sprees. And if you can't catch them in real-time, then remember the other way: ''Always keep a spare genny and/or fuel can.'' If you spend all day long gathering moar shotguns and then are left to dry out once a couple of death-cultists darkens the mall and the factory, survivors have only to blame themselves for their short-sightedness. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 15:48, 31 July 2010 (BST)
The BB3 isn't doing as well as all the other zombie groups before it IMO.  Why?  The BB3 can't maintain higher population ratio for more than a week, while the others before them maintained the population ratio in their favor for more than a month.  It is this very reason that I think you shouldn't be weakening the zombie side, but rather the survivor side ATM. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 16:57, 31 July 2010 (BST)

This idea sucks, and should quietly die in an obscure corner.{{User:Lelouch/sig}} 23:34, 31 July 2010 (BST)
:Surprised that you're not forcing '''Mountains: FUCK YEAH!''' --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 23:39, 31 July 2010 (BST)
::I find that a little restraint can only magnify the appearance of presence.{{User:Lelouch/sig}} 00:50, 1 August 2010 (BST)
::Also, now I've got you using it!{{User:Lelouch/sig}} 00:50, 1 August 2010 (BST)
:::It is very satisfying when used against ridiculous suggestions. Not to mention just generally fun to say. --{{:User:Alexander Dawkins/Sig}} 18:24, 1 August 2010 (BST)
::::[http://www.halolz.com/2010/07/04/mountains-fuck-yeah/ Origin.] Also, this section is now about mountains.{{User:Lelouch/sig}} 20:04, 1 August 2010 (BST)
Hmm, you know, if modified a lot and introduced as 2 skills - one good, one bad -I like it more. Have a skill like Generator Defence where a survivor who has the skill and has a certain amount of AP can keep an eye on the genny and not allow it to be tampered with. Then couteract it with a PK skill that allows for a survivor to see if any other player in the same room as him has the Genny Defence skill, therefore allowing him to attack it freely if no-one nearby has it. Also, a survivor with this skill gets a % chance of attacking the genny against a player with the Genny defence skill. Rough, but more viable in my mind as then the genny is not invulnerable. --[[User:Axemaniac johnson|Axemaniac johnson]] 20:57, 1 August 2010 (BST)

Murder this suggestion with a knife. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 16:24, 2 August 2010 (BST)
:''You smash at the suggestion with a knife. It <s>breaks beyond repair</s> has already been beyond repair.'' --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 17:05, 2 August 2010 (BST)

I could see getting behind a Generator Defense skill if it allowed a survivor with the skill (chosen at random if there is more than one with the skill present) to leap into the way at the last moment and be killed instead regardless of their hp, when a successful attack is indicated against a badly damaged generator.  Just how much ''do'' you love Genny? --[[User:Nuisance|Nuisance]] 15:11, 3 August 2010 (BST)

The generator is a boost for harmanz, not the default state. The "actions that affect hundreds" are lighting it up; destroying it returns things to the basics :D --[[User:Karloth_vois|Karloth Vois]] <sup>[[¯\(°_o)/¯]]</sup> 18:28, 3 August 2010 (BST)
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===Rescue pull===
{|
|'''Timestamp:''' [[User:Shadok|Shadok ]] 11:32, 21 July 2010 (BST)
|-
|'''Type:''' Balance
|-
|'''Scope:''' Newbie Survivors
|-
|'''Description:''' I know it isn't recommended to suggest something which alters another player's position, but I've thought about this one.

We all know the zombie skill feeding drag. Drags out an injured survivor for the "Bahbahz".
But what about the "Bahbah" Survivors?
I've played both sides, and I notice that until you join a metagame and a survivor group, you're alone.
As a newbie zombie, I just wondered around until I found a large horde, then grew at a MASSIVE rate. 

Now, the major problem I faced as a newbie survivor was EHBitching.

To counter the problem of newbie survivors sitting outside helplessly, I propose a skill. "Rescue pull" (Draft name), which allows a survivor who has it to "rescue" another survivor who is sitting outside of a building.

Rescue pull: 100xp cost (Civilian skill)
This skill allows you to work with another survivor to enter a building which is normally too inaccessible to either of you alone. 
(Both characters involved enter the building). Cost: 2AP for the puller. The puller cannot pull another player into a ruin.

Now, this skill won't kill those who Deathcult using EHBitching. It allows a higher level survivor to pull another into a building EVEN IF THE BUILDING IS HB. 
The exception is this: If a survivor is below level 5 or has less than 500 exp stored (to stop abuse) they can be pulled into a EHB building. (Be reasonable those of you who deathcult a lot. Would you like a game where your first day consisted of being beaten by the enemy?)

This skill would increase the survival of newbies who only JUST joined the game and encourage teamwork between survivors, a team which normally works solo and distrusts each other because of the PKer risk.

Those of you who PK, this also is a fun way to mess with someone.
You rescue them from the horde. Then you shoot them dead. :P

Okay, time for the scary part, listening to the older players tearing down my suggestion XD
|}
====Discussion (Rescue pull)====

First of all, have a cookie for using [[DS]]. Secondly. How does the experienced survivor get inside the HB building anyway? --{{User:Rosslessness/Sig}} 12:14, 21 July 2010 (BST)
: *Eats cookie* Obviously I didn't make it clear, but the experienced survivor and the newbie are both outside the building. The experienced survivor could obviously use freerunning to access the building via another route, but the newbie would be left outside to die otherwise. This version is actually my second version. The first one worked with one inside the building (via Freerun) and they could drag newbies from outside, but I realised that would create X-ray vision, so I scrapped it before even putting it on the wiki. [[User:Shadok|Shadok]] 13:32, 21 July 2010 (BST)
I like the general idea (and have often enough seen the troubles of stranded low-level survivors). However, it could be easily abused by zergers to counter overcading: Create a new survivor alt, move it to the building, and use it as a bridge for the main alt. To get around that, Rescue Pull should trigger zerg flags between the involved alts if they use the same IP, and automatically fail if it detects them. --{{User:Spiderzed/Sandbox/Sig}} 13:55, 21 July 2010 (BST)
:Didn't think of that, but I like that idea. It certainly solves the problem. [[User:Shadok|Shadok]] 14:03, 21 July 2010 (BST)
This is actually cheaper than using free running. Even assuming the building next door is vs or lower it costs 3AP to get in (1 move + 1 enter + 1 freerun) this seems like a shortcut  rather than an altruistic rescue skill. Mind you introduced with a "pyramid scheme" skill to allow zombie acrobatics to circumvent 'cades and i might say yes ;) --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 16:37, 21 July 2010 (BST)
:These are survivors. They already go around barricades. Zombies have always had to break them down. Introducing a way for zeds to go past them would completely change the rules of how zombies work. As a zed player, I know I would love to get past those pesky 'cades, but as a survivor it would ruin the game. Also, you seem to have miscalculated. With this skill, you need to spend 1 to walk, 2 to enter, as opposed to the 1 needed to freerun to that same building. (Yes, it's the same amount if you haven't already entered, but if it's a HB building, you would not be in it anyway). [[User:Shadok|Shadok]] 22:59, 21 July 2010 (BST)
::His math was sound. He was suggesting that you want to get into a building you are currently standing in front of. Presently, if the building were HB, you would need to travel a minimum of one block away (1AP), enter that building if it is VSB or lower (2AP total), and then travel back to the building where you wanted to be originally (3AP total). Contrast that with your method, where someone outside merely does a Rescue Pull and gets in with just 1AP. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:23, 22 July 2010 (BST)
:::2AP. The cost for the person pulling is TWO AP. But I see, I was thinking that the person was a block away from the "goal" building. Yes, this method would allow one less AP use. But honestly, 1 AP isn't going to make much of a dent on the zombie side and it means one more AP for the survivors to use. If it's preferred by the community, perhaps I could increase the cost to enter using rescue to 3AP; that way it costs the same?[[User:Shadok|Shadok]] 08:13, 22 July 2010 (BST)
::::1AP might not be all that much in the grand scheme of things but if the burb you are in is at siege then the chances are very good that you will waste a good 10AP just looking for an entry point. Not only that but you may not find one with a viable freerun route to your target building. When you consider that, your 2AP rescue to put 2 survivors into one desirable building is a good deal. add in the fact that those cades are currently impassable and you are getting a great deal. Now a skill that cost (say) 10AP to give a survivor a 50% chance to ignore heavy cades ''might'' be balanced, but this is simply unfixable. --[[User:Honestmistake|Honestmistake]] 16:29, 22 July 2010 (BST)

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, if a survivor who has accrued less than 500XP or 5 levels is outside a building with any level of barricades, and another one with Rescue Pull comes up to them, the one with Rescue Pull can pull them both into the building? Honestly, I see this being primarily used for self-interest and abuse, rather than as intended, despite the fact that you actually did manage to head off the most grievous forms of abuse that might have occurred.

Off the top of my head, one big issue is that this allows people to access "islands" without having to break down the barricades first. There's also the fact that if you can pair up with someone, this allows you both to take straight paths between buildings, rather than having to twist and wind through a Free Running lane system that might be broken anyway, and then get two people into your destination building for the price of one. Also, if the so-called "vet" doesn't have Free Running, this allows them access to buildings they shouldn't otherwise have access to yet, though that's not a major issue. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 19:35, 21 July 2010 (BST)

:People are selfish. I expect that the older player would be selfish, but they also help the newbie in the process. [[User:Shadok|Shadok]] 02:36, 22 July 2010 (BST)

:I could change it so that Freerunning is a prerequisite, although I personally don't think that science classes need to have any more misery than they already have in terms of expensive skills. and pairing isn't as easy as it sounds, I've tried working with my friends to survive and we frequently ended up having to split up. [[User:Shadok|Shadok]] 22:59, 21 July 2010 (BST)
::There's still the issue of accessing islands that needs to be discussed. {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 00:23, 22 July 2010 (BST)
:::Yeah, I'm open to suggestion on how to fix that. [[User:Shadok|Shadok]] 02:36, 22 July 2010 (BST)

I just really don't like the idea of a way to lessen the already-small number of street treats out there, especially since they're vital to raising a bahbah with any kind of pace. {{User:Misanthropy/Sig}} 23:07, 21 July 2010 (BST)
:That's just it. I play both sides. My zombie reached level 20 at the same time as my human. The zombie was "born" a month and a half after the harman. My main source of food wasn't street treats. It was following groans and entering open buildings. This suggetion is aimed to help the bahbah HARMANZ. Most true newbies join the survivors. They get eaten. They quit. No new players to the game. Zeds need Bahhah to work efficiently and thus work as a team by reflex. The harmanz are alone from creation and often will work solo, even when in a team. [[User:Shadok|Shadok]] 02:36, 22 July 2010 (BST)

There are some differences, but I feel that you should know about this [[PR_Skill_New:_Survivor:_Civilian#Fireman.27s_Carry_.28Bring_12HP_Survivor_Indoors.29|Reviewed Suggestion]]. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 10:13, 22 July 2010 (BST)
:  *Headdesk* There's always something which your work looks like a dupe of, isn't there? XD But like you said, it's not identical and the purpose of it is different. <small>—The preceding [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Shadok|Shadok]] ([[User talk:Shadok|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Shadok|contribs]]) at an <span class="stealthexternallink">[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=history}} unknown time]</span>.</small>
::But I kinda like the Fireman's Carry version a bit better, since it pulls in injured survivors instead of what could be fully healed survivors. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 12:23, 22 July 2010 (BST)
:::I suppose. But this is a developing suggestion. Perhaps I could put a HP limit on it. The only problem is that it becomes very dupish if I do that. Or I can ditch this one completely and it rots. However, I do think that fireman's carry seemed to require specific circumstances to use it for the carrier. If anyone remembers why it got four kill votes, I'd be interested to know why. [[User:Shadok|Shadok]] 12:40, 22 July 2010 (BST)
::::Original voting [[Suggestions/9th-Nov-2006#Fireman.27s_Carry_v2.0|here]].  Also, I found [[Suggestions/RejectedNovember2005#Carry_Comrade|this]], [[Suggestions/RejectedNovember2005#Drag_Survivor|this]], [[Suggestions/RejectedDecember2005#Shove.2FDrag|this]], [[Suggestions/RejectedFebruary2006#Drag_.28Revised.29|this]], [[Suggestions/RejectedMay2006#Fireman.60s_Carry|this]], [[Suggestions/RejectedMay2006#Carrying|this]], [[Suggestions/RejectedOctober2006#Body_Carrying|this]], [[Suggestions/RejectedOctober2006#Body_Drag|this]], and [[Suggestions/21st-Oct-2006#Fireman.27s_Carry|this]], all of which can be used against your suggestions if you do not make any noticable differences. --{{User:Axe Hack/Sig}} 13:30, 22 July 2010 (BST)

tl;dr ... I'm definitely not a fan of bypassing the HB+ status of the building, but if it were set up to pull the survivor inside when the building is VSB or lower I would be all for it. --{{User:Maverick Farrant/sig}} 14:23, 31 July 2010 (BST)
:I came in late on this idea. But I quite like it.--{{User:Jerrel Yokotory/signature}}. 16:41, 3 August 2010 (BST)
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==Suggestions up for voting==
''None at the moment.''