Talk:Scurvy Scroungers

Do you zerg?

This post is to address the above question. I suspect the answer is "yes", but I'd like to present my case here and give you a chance to defend yourself.

Scurvy Scoungers named "zerg"

The following accounts were all created on 2009-01-03.

• HandyManZerg http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=1441846
• PostManZerg http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=1441754
• MilkManZerg http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=1441850
• GenZerg http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=1441751

Furthermore, you've listed CapZerg as an important member of the Scurvy Scroungers. If so, is he also responsible for the following accounts or are they separate players?

• SergZerg http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=1428577
• CapZerg http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=1401005
• LtZerg http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=1402126
• CorpZerg http://urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=1428571

There are other scroungers with the last name "zerg" which I have not listed. I understand that some groups like to choose similar naming conventions to show unity but perhaps you can see why this draws suspicion, particularly with the accounts created on 2009-01-03.

ScS Response

Response: The scroungers recruited irl a number of people on the day in question. I was not personally present when they all joined up but I am told they decided on the Zerg name gimick. Some of them indeed did zerg, but this was investigated by administration, and those accounts were removed, I think the number was 3 accounts, the remaining scroungers were all different people. --Ebineezer Shifton 17:20, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Confusion among the ranks?

On your newly created wiki page you've listed Maron Deldibon as an important member of the Scurvy Scroungers. I have witnessed Maron attacking in turn, within a minute of a Scrounger attack so I believe this claim to be true. However Maron's group affiliation is actually Urban Paladin, not Scurvy Scrounger. I can understand the confusion, if you are managing multiple accounts.

Response: The confusion was simply a matter of some players not switching their tag. It's that simple. Maron was the leader of the Urban Paladins who were a survivor group who switched sides after consistently being pked. Simply forgot to switch his tag. --Ebineezer Shifton 17:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Lack of a wiki or forum

This wiki page was created today, Jan 27th, 2009. For quite a long time the Scroungers consisted of 10 players. But within the last few weeks your numbers have shot up to 21. This seems unusual since during that time you had no wiki page or forum to recruit with. Furthermore, Scurvy Scrounger graffiti in New Arkham is non-existant.

My question to you is - "How does a zombie group with no means of in-game communication, no wiki presence, no allies, and no advertising go from 10 to 21 members in a matter of weeks?"

My explanation is quite simple. There is no need for a forum or an in-game recruitment drive if to bolster your numbers you simply create more accounts. This is my argument. I have been biased in my argument so that it would stand on its own. However I will objectively listen to your response and I hope that the zerging, if it exists, is the result of a rogue member and not your policy as a group.

--Giles Sednik 00:45, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

ScS response part 2

Response: Indeed the scroungers did not have a wiki until recently because we are a group of IRL friends, and until survivor activity stepped up, did not need to recruit in game. The 12 or 13 of us were creating a nice niche in NA with occasional raids into other zones and didn't see the need for a wiki. Furthermore, we recruited through out of game methods largely because it is impossible, or nearly so, for zombies to effectively recruit in game. We had attempted spraypainting when reved a number of times, but that proved to just get covered over almost immediately. Our surge in membership was a result of adding aditional IRL friends to the game as well as gaining membership from other games some of our members play, such as MUDs. Additionally some of our members hadn't added the Scrounger's tag due to some internal confusion and did so following a roster check durring the middle of January. As I mentioned earlier, and perhaps to satisfy your hopes Giles, the zerging being done was carried out by a couple of new recruits (we recruited something like 8 people durring a IRL party we had). A couple of them proceeded to zerg, were punished by the administration, and told to leave the Scroungers. It is not a group policy, and was an restricted to one or two individuals. Were actually curious about the sudden surge of activity on the part of the South West Alliance. Until late dec 08, early jan 09 there was little to no resistance in this area when all of the sudden the number of survivors seemed to tripple overnight. Were pretty sure you just begged for outside help, and banded together due to our unimaginably successfull strategies, but since your going to throw acusations at us how bout you answer for yourselves? --Ebineezer Shifton 17:14, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

SWA response

Thank you for your reply Ebineezer. I appreciate your candor and your desire to handle the zerging that occurred in your group when it came to your attention. Your explanation seems adequate to me and I believe you when you say that the zerging activity was the result of a rogue player or two and not your policy as a group. My personal feeling is that it was more widespread than 3 names but I am willing to accept your response at face value.

I recall the times when your group numbered in the 12 - 14 range and the damage you were able to inflict on Foulkes Village with that small cadre. I've long suspected that your core group was honest and intelligent, separate from the blatant zerging that took place, and I'm glad to find out that you will remain intact as a healthy opponent. And if you chose to move elsewhere I wish you luck in your endeavors. Myself and the SWA are not opposed to players being zombies and in fact a number of us maintain zombie alts and enjoy the sweet pleasure of barhah.

As far as the surge in survivor numbers in New Arkham, I've written an article on our New Arkham activities that very clearly outlines what happened. The SWA isn't trying to take full credit for the turn-around in NA but we did play a part. The article recognizes the efforts of the local survivors and other groups who joined the fray. There is room in the article for you to leave your own account of events, from your perspective. And to directly address your question - no, we don't zerg, and I don't think we do anything that even resembles zerging. I hope to see the Scroungers again in battle, and I hope that we can both engage each other through the time-honored tradition of civility. Thanks again for your response. Long live Urban Dead!
--Giles Sednik ^CAPDSWA 21:39, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Heads up

Controll = wrong. Control = right. --Pestolence^(talk) 01:09, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

You caught a typo. Thanks? --Ebineezer Shifton 17:09, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Giles...something's definitely amiss with this crew.

Glad to see it wasn't just me imaginging things and I wouldn't hold my breath awaiting an honest reply from anyone in that crew. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Stockcs1 (talk • contribs) at an unknown time.

Response: Our lack of response to this was because we were unaware that this page even existed. It certainly was never mentioned to us in game, and as I have noted elsewhere, we didn't use, and were unfamiliar with the wiki until recently. --Ebineezer Shifton 17:36, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Highly organized?

LOL!, I guess its easy to launched highly organized attacks when they are controlled by only a few people. You went from 10-30 members almost overnight, no longstanding,highly advertised, well known groups have posted those kind of numbers which leaves only a single conclusion. Your group and others who engage in this kind of play are a bane to this game and the principle of fairplay. You destroy the balance that is achieved by the 50 AP limit...blah blah blah, you already know all of this and probably don't care, if you did you wouldn't be doing it in the first place. Disgusting.--Legion 19:07, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

ScS response

Response: The Scroungers are indeed highly organized. Over the course of about a year a group of around 10 people demolished the groups in this corner. We communicate through message boards hosted elsewhere, and coordinate our strikes as well as zombies can. We noticed that it was groups not normally located in this zone who did the leg work in outing our group from the Mitchener, it is at that point that we began in game recruiting. To further adress this comment I would propose that it is actually childish tactics and behaviour like those employed by your groups that are actually the bane to this game. The Scroungers have constently had people hurling insults at us, taging buildings with insults, and other such acts, simply because we play the opposite alignment in a game. Show some maturity. On the flip side of things, the Scroungers simply keep quiet, and launch coordinated, and effective attacks. The singleminded determination to eliminate all resistance that you have shown, while perhaps a natural part of the game, is actually what destroys the balance. Take a look at the map, clearly their is no balance. Zombies are horribly out matched. Your behavior suggests you have self esteem issues. Please seek professional help. --Ebineezer Shifton 17:32, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

While were on the subject of your guys' behavior lets talk about some of the cheap tactics you employ. This is right off your forums, and is a post from Giles. Heres the link to the page itself http://z15.invisionfree.com/UDSouthWest/index.php?showtopic=160

" Well after moving up to the Care bank to rest I was PKed in a what appears to be a coordinated assault between a few of the rotters and a PKer named Pirim. I would actually say that this is a major tactical breakthrough in our efforts to retake the NT building. The rotters who were stationed there have now left the building and are APed out in my current position. This should mean that the building is ungaurded. by at least Sheik and Gothmogg.

We don't have to worry about the PKer for now because he can't stop us from barricading and powering the building. I'm going to check on the Mitchener in zombie form now and we'll see what the situation is.

- Balthcazar and Ebineezer Shifton are inside the Mitchener now. They're both rotters. There is a revifying corspe here as well. I'm going to stand here overnight and build up some AP. If anyone runs into me go ahead and pass along a revive, otherwise I'll start on the two rotters with my hands and teeth in the morning.

We can take this thing in the next couple of days.

Oh yeh, I changed my group affiliation to Scurvy Scroungeres so I can track them with the scent death. Here's my profile so there's no confusion http://www.urbandead.com/profile.cgi?id=1092512 "

Wow, that is a really lame and cheap move Giles. No surprise though, I've seen you do it in the past, but having your own admission just makes it that much lamer. Wouldn't surprise me if some of you had made zombies and added the Scroungers tag just to follow our movements and have drones for newbs in your groups to xp off of. --Ebineezer Shifton 19:48, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Giles Response

I would like to quickly address some of your concerns. Firstly, I think it is wrong to hurl insults at players just for playing as zombies/PKers etc. If survivors have been taging buildings with insulting or abusive language towards you I apologize for that and I think it's wrong. I'm totally against that and I've written an article on civility to try and address this kind of behavior, specifically among survivors. I hope that people will listen to me and begin to treat their opponents with a little respect. I agree it damages game balance and it damages the experience of the game. So, a totally valid point on your part.

As far as my in-game tactics, I respect that you disagree with how I play. However, I don't think any of the tactics I've ever employed are cheap or lame. So I have nothing to hide there and I don't mind "admitting" to using scent death. I'm a proponent of using all of the tools within the game at your disposal - combat revives, revive point clogging, group tags, X:00, GKing, etc. Actually the only things I find objectionable are zerging, abusiveness, and forum spying. I will never infiltrate your forums to gain a competitive advantage, even if you have done this to us. And again, I can promise you I've never made any zombie drones/zerg accounts and I know that no one in the SWA has ever mentioned doing this. If they did, I would remind them that this is cheating. --Giles Sednik ^CAPDSWA 21:57, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Condition in the SW corner

It is interesting to look at the suburb pages. Lots of survivor groups, but only 1 or 2 two zombie groups. This sad state of affairs is ruining the game. --Ebineezer Shifton 17:57, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

The Great Suburb Group Massacre, 2009

	Group Active? Request.
	In order to maintain the wiki as an up to date source of information groups are occasionally removed from the Suburb pages when they are no longer active. Is this group still active? If so simply confirm here by writing something below. If not it will be removed from suburb pages in 14 days.

Occasionally, general checks are done of group activity. This may seem like a stupid question, but it's for all groups, regardless of size. --  RoosterDragon  15:03, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The Scroungers are active. --Ebineezer Shifton 17:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC)