Talk:Suggestions/8th-Dec-2005
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Not Have Zombies
- I mean, seriously. This is what you humans want, right? That's what every suggestion implies: more and better human skills, fewer zombie abilities. Vote for the humans, vote against the zeds. So we zombies should simply accept that we're not welcome in a game called Urban Dead. Also, replaced the entry since ALIENwolve decided to remove it without the article having any spam votes as the history clearly shows. I'm sorry you don't like the rules, ALIENwolve, but they're in place and I expect you to follow them just as I expect anyone else to. Don't like it? Vote spam. But don't be a dick and simply delete the suggestion. -- Ruining 1931 Dec. 8, 2005 (EST)
- This is not a suggestion; this is a complaint. --ALIENwolve 00:33, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Kudos on you for moving it to where it should've been from the beginning, though I personally don't even think it's funny. It's just stupid. --Drakkenmaw 19:39, 12 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Well apparently everyone else thought it was funny. Watching them snicker as they voted Keep. --ALIENwolve 19:41, 12 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Kudos on you for moving it to where it should've been from the beginning, though I personally don't even think it's funny. It's just stupid. --Drakkenmaw 19:39, 12 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- This is not a suggestion; this is a complaint. --ALIENwolve 00:33, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Yo, people, don't vote keep. It's just a complaint. Send it over to humourous, if anyone thinks it's funny enough. I mean, really. Just because people don't like certain suggestions doesn't mean people want zombies to disappear. Humans don't GET those skills, most people have voted kill on them. Come up with a good, balanced suggestion, preferably one that adds FUN to the zombie side, instead of just power. --Shadowstar 01:04, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Re - It's a valid suggestion. I think this suggestion takes care of all the game's balancing issues in one fell sweep. --Drunky McZombie 10:50, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Re - Look. I've voted keep on several zombie suggestions. I haven't voted keep on many more survivor ones. This is stupid, and just a complaint. It is NOT a suggestion, it is NOT valid. What the frell, man, there's no reason to be an idiot. If you want skills, get people to vote for your skills. Get people to vote against the human skills. Don't just complain. Come up with something constructive. --Shadowstar 01:59, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Re - It's a valid suggestion. I think this suggestion takes care of all the game's balancing issues in one fell sweep. --Drunky McZombie 10:50, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Then don't play the freaking game if you don't like it. --TheTeeHeeMonster 01:11, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- We are considering doing just that. There are hardly any zombies around at the moment, and people like you kill spamming every zombie suggestion doesnt make it any better. Its patently obvious you dont want zombies around, so this suggestion does just that. --Grim s 08:06, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- NOTE! - Before anyone gets the bright idea of moving this because it has spam votes, reread the rules on spam. This has the requisite real votes that it cannot be spam-voted down now. It must remain the two weeks. -- Ruining 2018 Dec. 8, 2005 (EST)
- Well that only includes actual suggestions.--ALIENwolve 01:20, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- I'm sorry your ideas of free speech and actual suggestions do not coincide with mine. However, the open and democratic nature of a wikipedia and adherance to the rules are the cornerstones of this foundation. Oppression of the zombie voice will do nothing to better the game. We must be able to have our say. -- Ruining 2025 Dec. 8, 2005 (EST)
- You can have your say in discussion. Free speech reaches to unfair punishment for what you say. Not what you do in a wiki with rules. http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Suggestions_Dos_and_Do_Nots#Don.27t_Knowingly_Post_Unacceptable_Ideas --ALIENwolve 01:30, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Oh I have your democracy right here. Since you were so kind as to have your group cronies vote keep so this couldn't go where it should (spinning off into the electronic ether of the wiki-history) I'll take this opportunity to ridicule this idea. There is a discussion page for a reason. If you're afraid your pathetic attempt at wit won't get noticed the answer is not to shove it down people's throats. This idea is completely unrealistic and serves no actual purpose other than to gratify your ego. Secondly, please cut the "I'm bein repressed" bit. You are not Cato. Its truly sad to watch you put up this trash and fight for it like you're some stoic defender of democracy. --Zaruthustra 01:54, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Cato killed himself. Ruining is already dead. --The Brian 08:15, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Adding to that: The freedom of speech only applies when you're being oppressed by the government. As long as someone isn't a government employee, they can shut you up and stop you from talking. --TheTeeHeeMonster 02:16, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Might I just add that free speech is only valid in a public forum, and since this wiki is privately owned free speech does not apply here, you are under the rules of the site and therefore they have every right to ban you or even sue you if your infraction is severe enough. The same rules apply to the forum. Just because you can go there and type whatever you want, doesn't mean your entitled to free speech. --Vellin 07:44, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- I know theres that crap about minumum number of real votes having been made. But seriously, a zombie game without zombies is like a book without pages. Rhialto 05:20, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- To all of you voting spam, could you please show me where someone, anyone, had the balls to propose removing zombies from the game before this? Thanks. -- Ruining
- Spam can also be used on ridiculous suggestions, in case you haven't noticed. -- KingRaptor 05:55, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- To all of you voting spam, could you please show me where someone, anyone, had the balls to propose removing zombies from the game before this? Thanks. -- Ruining
- I liked this game, and I will sorely miss it... not because of the shooting of zombies but because of the community it made... people keep coming up with suggestions for humans because we know humans best... all the zombie movies focus on humans so its natural for us to want them to have things. A lot of people here are suggesting we end the game... killing all the hard work everyone has put into the game. This is a very new game, its obvious there would be flaws people would have to work out, if you didnt realize it this game was not build by a company that could think up every detail... and if you wanted a game that had no effort involved there are plenty at the store.. they usually cost 30 dollars or more and there are many to choose from... because you pay for them you can expect perfection... your playing a free game... expect some issues and try to help it out instead of choking it...--Ringseed2 23:00, 9 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- RE: Every single zombie suggestion is voted down by what was, until i pimped it to the hordes, a human dominated voterbase. Even minor combat adjustments for us were kill voted into oblivion. If such is going to continue to be the case here (Because most people who vote regularly in the wiki are too stupid to see the way the game is going) then we may as well remove the zombie altogether. --Grim s 01:42, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- RE: Even if Kevan reads this, he isn't going to shut the game down. It just serves to get the point across that a lot of zombie players are frustrated with the way the game favors survivors. --Dickie Fux 04:54, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- RE: Not everyone who is a survivor is out to make themselves more powerful... if the people on this wiki are stupid then you are just as blind if you cannot see that, there are a lot trying to work to make the zombies better... I understand you are frustrated but there is no need to take it out on other people because of it. I have tried many solutions, seperating the military from the civilians... manditory zombie playing so people get a chance to experience the other side. The game was built to the survivors advantage, everything from the map itself to how the game is played, I dont know how to fix it but perhaps somebody can find a way... I mean Im seeing really cool ideas that would make me want to play a zombie... like the subway thing, give the game and its people some leinience...for i do not see how giving up will change things.--Ringseed2 05:24, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Kill - Okay, do I even need to mention how utterly stupid everyone is being? Let me repeat to you, once again, so some people might GET IT THROUGH THEIR SKULLS - these "Suggestion" pages generally mean absolutely jack to the final functioning of the game itself. Some of the ideas produced here are good. Some are dumb. But NONE of them get into the game without Kevan's decision, programming, and review. You think zombies are underpowered? Good, so do I. And guess what? They'll be fixed. Kevan will fix them. Hey, look at that - the fact that people are suggesting mostly human skills means NOTHING in that format. Christ, you sit here bickering back and forth over the "sad plight of the zombie masses" as if whether this or ANY suggestion that makes it through review is going to be included in the game. Most won't. Even those that *do* catch Kevan's eye likely won't make it in for a long, long time while he uses his spare time to code them in with some balance and fairness. But you treat this like it's some sort of Internet pageant, and whoever speaks the loudest about "buffing" their side and "nerfing" the other wins the game. This isn't Verant, there is no bloody Nerf Bat, and you all are acting like whiny ingrates over a FREE game which is run at high cost in the SPARE TIME of one man. He'll fix things, when he's able - the game is not complete, and likely won't be for awhile. But threatening to storm off in a huff because "it's not fair" right this second is childishness. My zombie's doing as it always has done - wandering around, breaking into buildings and eating people. Sure, I get headshot. Sure, it's tough to get into places on my own. But so what? IT'S A BLOODY GAME. I'm not about to burst into tears over the plight of my little sliver of database space. So if you think you're having a tough time? Guess what, you are. And you will, for awhile, but Kevan will fix the balance and you'll probably get something cool out of it. In the meantime, man up. It'll do you a world of good. --Drakkenmaw 08:37, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- This comment is a long, stupid, gratuitous slam not on the idea itself but on the individual who proposed it and those who agree with it. As such it is contrary to the suggestion rules and should be removed.
- This suggestion is a long, stupid, and gratuitous slam on the game itself. Propose actual real solutions, which will help possibly inspire Kevan in finding a way to fix the issue, instead of just whining that "we might as well not even have zombies anymore." I haven't told you to consume my feces, I haven't posted 50 paragraphs of profanity, and other suggestions have received FAR worse commentary from those other than me. But hey, if you want additional reasoning - how about the fact that it'll DESTROY THE GAME? There - you have your intelligent rebuttal of concept. No one making this suggestion honestly expects it to go into the game itself, it's as useless as the "funny" suggestions, and it doesn't even have the side benefit of being slightly humorous. No, this is just whining. As I said, promote real solutions and discuss the suggestions that ARE made based on their individual merits - not their "place in the balance of the game," since Kevan will make sure to rebalance when things get like they are now. Until then you're just sniveling. --Drakkenmaw 18:25, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- You think so? You really think so? I'm dubious because the game's been horribly out of whack for weeks; certainly ever since I began a month ago. I have no doubt Kevan sees the stats. However, he's faced with the question, "Do I remove or downgrade headshot to balance it and risk pissing off the human majority, or do I leave it alone and watch as the zombies continue to dwindle?" It's not an easy suggestion, but having people like you who come running in screaming things like, "Zombies are whiners! Just quit playing if you don't like it! STFU!" doesn't aid anyone by any measure. Even less beneficial is a suggestion page dominated by humanist viewpoints. So, I encourage everyone to vote to keep this if only as an attempt to open communications between zombies and Kevan in a neutral environment. You can find the link to the Pwotters home website in our wiki profile; we'd certainly be willing to take part in discussions between Kevan and the various hordes. Until then, I emplore all of the humans who think we're whining to step back and consider the last time they watched a really fun zombie movie where the zombies had to run and hide from large packs of humans, hunted like feral dogs if they're not fortunate enough to be a part of a horde. Think about what makes zombies fun. And then if you think we're still whiners, keep it to yourself because suggestions of "just stop playing" don't benefit anyone. -- Ruining
- Wake up call - I play a zombie. My zombie is my favourite character. I see no current issues rendering zombies "unplayable." Are they underpowered? Yes. But so? They're not "unplayable" as they currently exist - they're just interesting in their increased challenge, and eventually they'll swing over to the other side as Kevan implements an opposing concept to give the zombies more power. I don't think zombies are whiners; I think the people who post crap like this are, because they're giving no constructive benefit in their suggestion. The entire point of the suggestion board is basically mass brainstorming, so that there might be something in here that'll give Kevan some inspiration. But this crap turns it into just another forum flamewar about who's more "powerful" and who needs "nerfing." There is absolutely nothing of value in this "discussion," no "open dialogue with the creator" you seem to think it is - because the entirety of this discussion is "zombies suck, and I don't want to play one anymore unless you placate me." You want to make it better? Don't do this. Present rational, intelligent ideas that give zombies a wider play-scope and more-effective tactical counterparts to the human item stranglehold. Clarify your position with numbers, compromise when necessary, and innovate. But you seem to think that anyone who opposes ANY zombie idea is anti-zombie, and any interesting human ideas just punish those people who don't play them. So you want to take your toys and run home, and "open a dialogue" there over how Kevan can somehow "win you back." That's stupid, and I don't hesitate to call it such. If you think there's no value in playing a zombie, if you think you can conduct some sort of blackmail on the creator with your participation, I urge you to quit. Because I don't want you on my side. You make us all look bad. --Drakkenmaw 21:49, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Finally, the voice of reason gets a say. Ruining, I have no beef with you, but Drakkenmaw has been playing for far longer, has done far more for the community and has contributed far more to the way this game has been played than you. What he is saying makes sense, and I don't see why you can't see that. I'm going to quote him, and I challenge you to actually respond to this point without sounding like a petulant child - "Propose actual real solutions, which will help possibly inspire Kevan in finding a way to fix the issue." Now is that so hard? If there is an imbalance towards humans, then the solution will be found by the one person who has any real power - Kevan himself. The whole idea of the suggestions page is for people like us to play around with ways to improve the game, and maybe for Kevan to look over once in a while to see if there are any good ideas he hasn't already thought of. Here's a thought; if you want to improve the game without throwing some sort of melodramatic fit about it come up with a good suggestion, and don't try to shout down anyone who happens to want to talk sense. Surely, coming up with good suggestions for zombies can't be that hard? The reason many are shot down is because they are quite simply terrible. There's no denying it; there are too many children playing this game who just saw the last Resident Evil movie and want to include Lickers in the game. That's why, not any mystical "bias against zombies". --Daxx 00:26, 11 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- As FriedFish points out, that's right -- I'm one of the leaders of a sizeable zombie horde. If I didn't think the game were worth saving, I doubt I'd still be advising my forces. But then again, WHO KNOWS?! I mean, other people have played longer, so their opinion is more valuable than mine! Oooh, you got me on that one! Exceptional argument! Look, there's no blackmail here; there can't be because we don't hold hostage anything Kevan desires. The best we can do is go on strike, which is a funny idea. So you want our suggestion? Nix headshot. Quit griefing the mid-level zombies. I get a skill a week, maybe. Other Pwotters? About the same. And yet, when suggestions to headshot are made, everyone's all up at arms. The vote for the ability to turn it off? Wonderful. A handful of people can decide to not use it. All in favor of it. Don't think it'll do a damn thing. So, since you're clearly so much better because you've been playing longer, any of you who have contributed way more than I have in some unknown yet quantifiable manner, show me a headshot proposal that's useful and surviving. Or any other surviving, realistic zombie concept. I'm currently arguing for and backing my idea up; where's yours? -- Ruining
- I wrote the survival guides. I was one of the earliest entrants into the game. I've played since you couldn't even close the doors, I was one of the moderators on the first UD forum, and I've discussed "game improvement suggestions" from the NT Yahoo Group onwards. I've seen a lot of dumb ideas, and unintended consequences, come through the pipeline. You may think you're the first person to complain over the relative strengths of the two "sides," but you're not. Not in the least. Up until Caiger, everyone was complaining that the survivor side was too weak - that humans couldn't do anything but cower in buildings and run from the advancing zombie menace. And then headshot went in, and the syringe drop was tweaked, and now it's the zombies' turn to whine. You're not the first, you won't be the last, and no one will ever be perfectly happy. You're just the person who has managed to find a good way to bitch this time. But Kevan isn't listening - not specifically to you, no matter how good this "protest vote" of yours turns out. Why? Because he's busy - busy working on the thing he has in store for the next major gameplay upgrade to the system. He won't remove Headshot, any more than he'd remove Ankle Grab or Infectious Bite or any of the other skills he's put in that someone somewhere hasn't been happy with. Instead he'll put in something cool, like he did with Headshot, and you'll be happy... straight up until the survivors start whining again over THEIR side, at which time you'll probably tell them to shut up. Matthew-Stewart listed all the good ideas with support on the suggestion list, and any one of those could be the base for that next great addition - but you're so worried about what is at this present moment that apparently you think it'll never change without cutting down the things the survivors have. And so you want to screw them so that you'll be placated, and then we'll be right back to where we were with the survivors coming in daily talking about how impossible it is to play effectively as a non-zombie.
- There's a simple rule in game-design, which no MMOGs seem to follow well. And every time they break the rule, everyone freaks out - as they have every right to do, basically, because it's an important rule. The rule is, "Don't break your players' toys." If you give something to someone, don't later ruin that thing. Balance everything else around the things already in the game, add to it... but don't fall into the circle of making everyone worse because one side is unhappy. Instead make everyone better.
- The zombies will be made better. Kevan's never sitting still - the FAQ makes it perfectly clear that he always has something in mind. And it'll be something cool. I personally don't make suggestions because I know it's Kevan's game, and Kevan's inspirations for it will thus inevitably be far more interesting than anything I could put on this page. His zombie improvements will, without a doubt, rock your world. So stop complaining that the game's going to die because the survivors haven't been "taken down a notch." There are many ways to bring zombies up one instead, and even if you personally don't think they'll work - I do. The game hasn't sucked yet, and I've been playing it since July. Have a bit of faith, and stop antagonizing everyone. Sheesh. --Drakkenmaw 05:54, 11 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- There's a simple rule in game-design, which no MMOGs seem to follow well. And every time they break the rule, everyone freaks out - as they have every right to do, basically, because it's an important rule. The rule is, "Don't break your players' toys." If you give something to someone, don't later ruin that thing. Balance everything else around the things already in the game, add to it... but don't fall into the circle of making everyone worse because one side is unhappy. Instead make everyone better.
- I wrote the survival guides. I was one of the earliest entrants into the game. I've played since you couldn't even close the doors, I was one of the moderators on the first UD forum, and I've discussed "game improvement suggestions" from the NT Yahoo Group onwards. I've seen a lot of dumb ideas, and unintended consequences, come through the pipeline. You may think you're the first person to complain over the relative strengths of the two "sides," but you're not. Not in the least. Up until Caiger, everyone was complaining that the survivor side was too weak - that humans couldn't do anything but cower in buildings and run from the advancing zombie menace. And then headshot went in, and the syringe drop was tweaked, and now it's the zombies' turn to whine. You're not the first, you won't be the last, and no one will ever be perfectly happy. You're just the person who has managed to find a good way to bitch this time. But Kevan isn't listening - not specifically to you, no matter how good this "protest vote" of yours turns out. Why? Because he's busy - busy working on the thing he has in store for the next major gameplay upgrade to the system. He won't remove Headshot, any more than he'd remove Ankle Grab or Infectious Bite or any of the other skills he's put in that someone somewhere hasn't been happy with. Instead he'll put in something cool, like he did with Headshot, and you'll be happy... straight up until the survivors start whining again over THEIR side, at which time you'll probably tell them to shut up. Matthew-Stewart listed all the good ideas with support on the suggestion list, and any one of those could be the base for that next great addition - but you're so worried about what is at this present moment that apparently you think it'll never change without cutting down the things the survivors have. And so you want to screw them so that you'll be placated, and then we'll be right back to where we were with the survivors coming in daily talking about how impossible it is to play effectively as a non-zombie.
- As FriedFish points out, that's right -- I'm one of the leaders of a sizeable zombie horde. If I didn't think the game were worth saving, I doubt I'd still be advising my forces. But then again, WHO KNOWS?! I mean, other people have played longer, so their opinion is more valuable than mine! Oooh, you got me on that one! Exceptional argument! Look, there's no blackmail here; there can't be because we don't hold hostage anything Kevan desires. The best we can do is go on strike, which is a funny idea. So you want our suggestion? Nix headshot. Quit griefing the mid-level zombies. I get a skill a week, maybe. Other Pwotters? About the same. And yet, when suggestions to headshot are made, everyone's all up at arms. The vote for the ability to turn it off? Wonderful. A handful of people can decide to not use it. All in favor of it. Don't think it'll do a damn thing. So, since you're clearly so much better because you've been playing longer, any of you who have contributed way more than I have in some unknown yet quantifiable manner, show me a headshot proposal that's useful and surviving. Or any other surviving, realistic zombie concept. I'm currently arguing for and backing my idea up; where's yours? -- Ruining
- Finally, the voice of reason gets a say. Ruining, I have no beef with you, but Drakkenmaw has been playing for far longer, has done far more for the community and has contributed far more to the way this game has been played than you. What he is saying makes sense, and I don't see why you can't see that. I'm going to quote him, and I challenge you to actually respond to this point without sounding like a petulant child - "Propose actual real solutions, which will help possibly inspire Kevan in finding a way to fix the issue." Now is that so hard? If there is an imbalance towards humans, then the solution will be found by the one person who has any real power - Kevan himself. The whole idea of the suggestions page is for people like us to play around with ways to improve the game, and maybe for Kevan to look over once in a while to see if there are any good ideas he hasn't already thought of. Here's a thought; if you want to improve the game without throwing some sort of melodramatic fit about it come up with a good suggestion, and don't try to shout down anyone who happens to want to talk sense. Surely, coming up with good suggestions for zombies can't be that hard? The reason many are shot down is because they are quite simply terrible. There's no denying it; there are too many children playing this game who just saw the last Resident Evil movie and want to include Lickers in the game. That's why, not any mystical "bias against zombies". --Daxx 00:26, 11 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- Wake up call - I play a zombie. My zombie is my favourite character. I see no current issues rendering zombies "unplayable." Are they underpowered? Yes. But so? They're not "unplayable" as they currently exist - they're just interesting in their increased challenge, and eventually they'll swing over to the other side as Kevan implements an opposing concept to give the zombies more power. I don't think zombies are whiners; I think the people who post crap like this are, because they're giving no constructive benefit in their suggestion. The entire point of the suggestion board is basically mass brainstorming, so that there might be something in here that'll give Kevan some inspiration. But this crap turns it into just another forum flamewar about who's more "powerful" and who needs "nerfing." There is absolutely nothing of value in this "discussion," no "open dialogue with the creator" you seem to think it is - because the entirety of this discussion is "zombies suck, and I don't want to play one anymore unless you placate me." You want to make it better? Don't do this. Present rational, intelligent ideas that give zombies a wider play-scope and more-effective tactical counterparts to the human item stranglehold. Clarify your position with numbers, compromise when necessary, and innovate. But you seem to think that anyone who opposes ANY zombie idea is anti-zombie, and any interesting human ideas just punish those people who don't play them. So you want to take your toys and run home, and "open a dialogue" there over how Kevan can somehow "win you back." That's stupid, and I don't hesitate to call it such. If you think there's no value in playing a zombie, if you think you can conduct some sort of blackmail on the creator with your participation, I urge you to quit. Because I don't want you on my side. You make us all look bad. --Drakkenmaw 21:49, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- You think so? You really think so? I'm dubious because the game's been horribly out of whack for weeks; certainly ever since I began a month ago. I have no doubt Kevan sees the stats. However, he's faced with the question, "Do I remove or downgrade headshot to balance it and risk pissing off the human majority, or do I leave it alone and watch as the zombies continue to dwindle?" It's not an easy suggestion, but having people like you who come running in screaming things like, "Zombies are whiners! Just quit playing if you don't like it! STFU!" doesn't aid anyone by any measure. Even less beneficial is a suggestion page dominated by humanist viewpoints. So, I encourage everyone to vote to keep this if only as an attempt to open communications between zombies and Kevan in a neutral environment. You can find the link to the Pwotters home website in our wiki profile; we'd certainly be willing to take part in discussions between Kevan and the various hordes. Until then, I emplore all of the humans who think we're whining to step back and consider the last time they watched a really fun zombie movie where the zombies had to run and hide from large packs of humans, hunted like feral dogs if they're not fortunate enough to be a part of a horde. Think about what makes zombies fun. And then if you think we're still whiners, keep it to yourself because suggestions of "just stop playing" don't benefit anyone. -- Ruining
- This suggestion is a long, stupid, and gratuitous slam on the game itself. Propose actual real solutions, which will help possibly inspire Kevan in finding a way to fix the issue, instead of just whining that "we might as well not even have zombies anymore." I haven't told you to consume my feces, I haven't posted 50 paragraphs of profanity, and other suggestions have received FAR worse commentary from those other than me. But hey, if you want additional reasoning - how about the fact that it'll DESTROY THE GAME? There - you have your intelligent rebuttal of concept. No one making this suggestion honestly expects it to go into the game itself, it's as useless as the "funny" suggestions, and it doesn't even have the side benefit of being slightly humorous. No, this is just whining. As I said, promote real solutions and discuss the suggestions that ARE made based on their individual merits - not their "place in the balance of the game," since Kevan will make sure to rebalance when things get like they are now. Until then you're just sniveling. --Drakkenmaw 18:25, 10 Dec 2005 (GMT)
- This comment is a long, stupid, gratuitous slam not on the idea itself but on the individual who proposed it and those who agree with it. As such it is contrary to the suggestion rules and should be removed.
