Suggestion talk:20070829 Scanning Required for Revives
From The Urban Dead Wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search
Replay to Karek's Vote
- Spam - Forced efficiency, this saves syringes and as such is game breaking in my opinion. Also on rereading, DO NOT MESS WITH REVIVE RATES Honestly I thought you knew better Swiers.--Karekmaps?! 03:24, 30 August 2007 (BST)
- The change to revive rates over-all would be very small, and in any case, I don't see revive rates as a sacred cow. I'm much more interested in impacts on over-all balance and play value. Don't forget a lot more goes into reviving than just the 10 (or 9) AP spent to revive the zombie at the RP. 6 AP to find a syringe, X AP to move in and use it, Y AP on fruitlessly scanning "rejected candidates", etc- 1 AP saved at the RP is pretty minor in the grand scheme. It is a demonstrated certainty that the new Ruin effects (even previous to 8-24) DO boost those other costs, but I didn't see you yelling "do not mess with revive rates" when any of the voting on ruin effects went on. In fact, I think you proposed something along the lines of "no generators..." - which at the very least would boost the cost to find syringes in some cases- and rightly so! So yes, I think revive rates can and should be messed with.
I knew that aspect would be controversial, but it makes sense in this proposal for a couple reasons. First, flavor wise it justifies the change (new NT procedure)- without a slight drop in cost, this suggestion makes little sense, and is in fact a nerf (some would argue a scanner is dead weight in the inventory, as with a toolbox). Second, IMO characters who specialize in revives are among the weakest / most annoying to play in the game, and could use a buff. Third, any resulting buff is easy for Kevan to offset via unmeasurable factors (primarily syringe search rates, perhaps also rotter scan rates).
As for forced efficiency, since when do people actually pay attention to scans? I'm pretty sure I've seen you personally post reports of being scanned as a rotter and THEN having 2+ needles jabbed in you. I know it has happened to me.
Swiers 11:28, 30 August 2007 (BST)
- The change isn't small, rotters waste tons of syringes each day, this all but eliminates that. Also I have suggested only three things that I know of on this wiki ever, and none of them have had to do with revive rates or search rates. The AP this saves is in the searching, not the using.--Karekmaps?! 04:31, 31 August 2007 (BST)
- True, fewer people would likely be dumb enough to stick a needle in a rotter this way. In fact, I think the scanner's "revivify this specimen" button may not even be offered if the suject has cortex damage an you are outside a powered NT building. Which I think well matches the proposal's flavor text- why would NT allow people to waste needles that way, if they could prevent it? And I didn't say you PROPOSED things that impact search & revive rates, but I know you've voted keep on things that certainly do impact them negatively. On the main page, you also mentioned "forcing" a certain play style. Allowing "blind needle use" has in itself forced certain play styles- mostly on zombies who wish to avoid revives, and on revive point users who must use a revive request tool to allow optimal reviver AP use. Swiers 23:33, 31 August 2007 (BST)
- While I don't like combat reviving I wouldn't actually have a problem with it if it were more balanced for low level players. Also I don't remember voting on anything that reduced or lowered the revive rate, although it is always a good thing for revives to be harder I view it to be Kevan's decision to make as to when, not the players. The only suggestions I know of that I can remember voting on that lower either thing are those that effect generators in ransacked buildings because of the generators basically negating ransack, I'm not big on an item nerfing a portion of a skill. Regarding the forcing, people like options options usually equal out to fun, removing options, even if the option was to do something inefficient or detrimental, is always a bad thing and always makes it less fun not more.--Karekmaps?! 06:39, 1 September 2007 (BST)
- True, fewer people would likely be dumb enough to stick a needle in a rotter this way. In fact, I think the scanner's "revivify this specimen" button may not even be offered if the suject has cortex damage an you are outside a powered NT building. Which I think well matches the proposal's flavor text- why would NT allow people to waste needles that way, if they could prevent it? And I didn't say you PROPOSED things that impact search & revive rates, but I know you've voted keep on things that certainly do impact them negatively. On the main page, you also mentioned "forcing" a certain play style. Allowing "blind needle use" has in itself forced certain play styles- mostly on zombies who wish to avoid revives, and on revive point users who must use a revive request tool to allow optimal reviver AP use.
- The change isn't small, rotters waste tons of syringes each day, this all but eliminates that. Also I have suggested only three things that I know of on this wiki ever, and none of them have had to do with revive rates or search rates. The AP this saves is in the searching, not the using.--Karekmaps?! 04:31, 31 August 2007 (BST)
- The change to revive rates over-all would be very small, and in any case, I don't see revive rates as a sacred cow. I'm much more interested in impacts on over-all balance and play value. Don't forget a lot more goes into reviving than just the 10 (or 9) AP spent to revive the zombie at the RP. 6 AP to find a syringe, X AP to move in and use it, Y AP on fruitlessly scanning "rejected candidates", etc- 1 AP saved at the RP is pretty minor in the grand scheme. It is a demonstrated certainty that the new Ruin effects (even previous to 8-24) DO boost those other costs, but I didn't see you yelling "do not mess with revive rates" when any of the voting on ruin effects went on. In fact, I think you proposed something along the lines of "no generators..." - which at the very least would boost the cost to find syringes in some cases- and rightly so! So yes, I think revive rates can and should be messed with.
