Talk:Indian/Pakistani Leftovers/Borehamwood Survivor Sightings

27 March, 2010 RNS-SDW put on their First Annual Fireworks display outside The Plume of Feathers [554,93] to commemorate the lives of ther fallen comrades and give any nearby zombies a bit of a lighting display. A Feral arrived on the scene and groaned as Auretious Taak fled after firing 6 Flares and spray painting "RNS-SDW 1st Annual Fireworks Display 27 March 2010" outside the Pub. NB: This update was done 2 days late to see if any zombies had actually witnessed the event after the South had supposedly failed to rise.--Ram Rock Ed First 21:24, 29 March 2010 (AEST)

What, you're still here? Nobody noticed the flares. Try harder. ; ) --Necrofeelinya 22:44, 30 March 2010 (BST)

Ram Rock...... your name doesn't match your actions, kinda reminds me of the old saying "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" I contend that you "humans" don't really make a sound............If your just gonna run and zerg all the time, you might as well just idle out. We can't "hear" you if you aren't there.--Mob mentality 02:32, 31 March 2010 (BST)

Actually mob mentality, my actions elsewhere as well as in Malton back in the very earliest days more then match my name. In terms of RNS-SDW and zerging, we've never actually zerged in Borehamwood, we're one of the few groups that has all members playing single characters, that includes the one or two friendly zombies which were original members of the group running around. There are 2 of us left alive and unlike the main group we're, or at least I, am prepared for my inevitable death (preferably after everyone else) with a variety of sporting goods for Zombie Games! I posted a topic on barhah.com, shoot me a message there. And yes, anyone in the main group who thinks me posting up a message here telling the zombies to contact me is as good as betraying my own side, well most of you isolated/exhiled us from your forums and haven't shared intel for over a year so in that way betrayed your own side first, funny how we're still alive (at least for now) without your help guys. Keep up the good work all you zombies, it's fun keeping ahead of you. NB: I'm not sure if that comment was too personnal, after all these years playing, I've still not learnt how to use the wiki (and hence why RNS-SDW don't have a wiki page...yet).--Ram Rock Ed First 02:00, 01 April 2010 (AEST)

Hi Taak, good to hear from you again after so long. Sorry you were too beaten down to chat on the sightings page for a while. I do hope you outlast the other harmans, you've got a more engaging personality than most of them, or at least more audacity and a greater willingness to engage us than they have. You still hold the title as far as impressive survivors go, the others don't come close(especially that wannabe Nemesis MK2, who idled out after failing to even come close). Don't let Mobs comments discourage you, he's a great zombie, one of the best I've encountered, and he and I have much in common. But of all the remaining harmans, you have the most impressive record. I won't pretend otherwise, he's just trying to draw you out, just like I am. I'd love to kill you, Taak. It would be a privilege. I killed your alt or brother, and I'd love to kill you as well. No animosity, just desire. I wouldn't mind you being last killed in the BH 100. It would be appropriate. But if I catch you before the others, you're dead in the bottom 25 or so. It's just not negotiable. Caught means dead if possible. So good luck, and most importantly, go out with style, because you really have made a greater effort to engage us than the other harmans have thus far. Good job, Taak!--Necrofeelinya 06:03, 1 April 2010 (BST)

hahaha this is hilarious! Necro and Taak lovingly fondling each other's egos in the loneliness of the worldwide internets. Each congratulating the other for their ability to reach hitherto uncharted levels of abject failure. hahahahahaha.

Now, imma let you finish, but guys, you're ALL zergers.

Watching you piously deny it is like seeing two old men in yellow stained trousers denying that they're incontinent. You stink of it dewds! You REEK. lmfao@Taak, you are running more zed alts than the entire zombie meta put together, the group you "led" got wiped out BECAUSE you relied on password sharing. Security makes people careless and lazy.

mobmentality, you're no better - within the last few days you used both your zerglings (ahem, alts) to attack the same group of survivors at different locations within a few hours of each other. All zeds with more than one character in Borehamwood do this on a regular basis, whether they know it or not.

I could make a clear and unarguable case for how ANY use of multiple accounts by ANY player in a hardcore map is zerging, but I'd be drowned out by all the bleating and bawing from lying cretins who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

Suffice to say; there are only a very few regular players still in Bwd (on either side - though there are some) who have not made use of a second account at some point. Like I say, I think this is something worth discussing, just not with people who can't be honest about their own multi-account use and try to divert attention away from it by loudly shouting about zergers.

@Taak: the reason you are shunned by EVERY remaining survivor in Borehamwood (and have been for the last year) is because you are a loudmouth fool. That's literally all there is to it. I know it's hard to take, but there it is. RECOGNIZE. fireworks display? LOL WUT - you are the ONLY person who cares.

@Necro: Your posts are always so unbelievably camp, like a pantomime villain, that I never know whether to take you srsly, but your bitter, burning frustration at having been relentlessly and repeatedly schooled by a bunch of UD noobs (hi!) for a year and a half is oh, SOOO real. I can understand that the constant humiliation really grinds your gears, but man up chuckles, the game is unbelievably skewed in favour of zombies - THAT'S THE POINT of hardcore maps. I know it's profoundly embarrassing for you that EVEN GIVEN 18 MONTHS YOU CAN'T STOP THE HARMANZ but it's even more embarrassing when you resort to calling us paedophiles, whining to Kevan for rule changes to make your life easier or trying to get us to PK each other instead of doing what any REAL zombie leader would do and ORGANIZE HIS TROOPS.

You say Taak has "engaged" with you? aaaahahahahahaaaaa oh man, if we all engaged with you like that, there wouldn't be any cades for you to break, there wouldn't be any repairs to ruin, there wouldn't be any survivors to chase. If wading through carpets of a thousand weeds, setting off flares and occasionally graffiting the tag of your extinct group is engagement then it seems obvious that the rest of us who have been so insultingly insensitive as to actually offer you a decent run for your money have been doing it wrong all along. If we were all like Taak, there wouldn't still be a game for you to play here.

I don't expect you to grow up and suddenly become an opponent worthy of respect but a little less of this dishonest and pathetic whining about zerging is, frankly, the least you can do. The only actions that count are in-game. See you there. Or not.

Now: go ahead and rage-delete this post to prove that you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

Scribble 17:37, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Thanks for taking your finger out of your butt long enough to post the above crap. You have been on the run so long you let it back up and it must have given you quite the tummy ache. Keep running, password sharing, and zerging with all your zombie alts. Eventually you WILL get eaten along with your ever dwindling number of friends and no amount of whining will change that. Or for that matter since in game you seem to specialize in cowardice, take my earlier advice and idle out, at this point for all your lack of effort there's no shame in quitting. We probably won't even know you've gone. --Mob mentality 21:40, 1 April 2010 (BST)

Dear nattering nitwit Scribble, I'd like to share some things with you. Take a look:

Example 1: Three Dog, Threee Dog, Three Dawg, Three Dogg

Just a small sampling of the alts being abused by your group. None of the above are currently showing as idled out on my contacts list, despite having died ages ago. They're not helping Taak, they're helping you. And you've got a seemingly endless swarm of other traitor zombies doing likewise. None of us have more than 2 characters, and those of us with 2 use them in separate parts of the city. We don't attack the same cluster with 2 characters. That's immensely more in keeping with the rules than anything you remotely adhere to. Never mind that using zombie alts to help you survive isn't in keeping with the spirit of the game. You not only use them to scout, you use them to see HP in the dark for you so you can FAK barrage characters at risk of dying, and you use them to bring up VSB ruins so that most of the ferals in the game won't even notice they're near a 'caded building when they're standing on it. And yes, I've tried to get game changes Peer Reviewed in DevSug to change some of these flaws you exploit so constantly, but not just for my sake. I've sorted out your stupid tricks, and can kill you regardless. But people like you ruin the game for ferals and noobs. You deserve to have your cheap exploits and loopholes cut off. After all, it's not like you 20 harmans don't have a 100x100 map with a total of 10,000 places to hide (minus a few for borders) without even counting indoors and the ability to 'cade. You really need to cheat as well? Pathetic. Oh, and as for the game being "wildly skewed in favor of zombies", a) every time one of you dies it actually gets harder for zombies, as we run low on targets and you truly have an enormous area in which to hide, and b) if you didn't want a hard game, maybe you should have stuck with Malton, noob. Being on a "hardcore" map doesn't excuse your constant rules violations and game exploits. As for your cheap bragging, I don't give credit for longevity to "survivors" who use workarounds and exploits. But then, you can't seem to keep us from killing you even with all your dumb exploits, so why would I think you could manage without them?

Example 2:

October 15, 2009, wiki user --Saburai 03:30, (AKA Joe England), vandalizes my wiki news page because he's butthurt about us killing one of his buddies. His extravagant rewrite of my posting is not "rage deleted", in fact it's kept intact along with my own easily restored post. A fine example of a survivor temper tantrum and lack of concern for the rules. Also an indication that I'm not prone to "rage deleting" things. Projecting, are we?

Example 3:

October 15, 2009, yes, same day as example 2, asdironh referred to us as "dumb ****** zombies" in-game. He didn't bother to use apostrophes where I have. Instead he substituted a racial epithet highly offensive to black people. Of all the harman groups, only Taak of RNS-SDW showed the decency to express disfavor of this action. Asdironh still runs with the rest of you, which of course implies that you're not only cheaters, you're racists as well.

Example 4:

August 30, 2009, and this one's really special.

Yeah, we headshot you pretty good down in Elstree. Got to keep ourselves entertained I guess.  
But I'm sorry we coordinated against you. That was cheap. Tell you what, Necro, I'll stop
using meta and working with zeds if you promise to do the same. Deal? No more meta-gaming
against each other? Just humans versus zeds, playing by the rules, like Kevan intended? I'm
willing if you are.--Saburai 04:33, 31 August 2009 (BST) (aka Joe England) 

Wait, is that Joe England, the mighty harman warrior, practically wetting his pants after we beat down Frank Garrett and running sobbing to us, begging for us to stop metagaming the way he's been doing all along, making an idiotic offer that he'll stop metagaming and using traitor zombies if we all just go feral and practically give up? Why, I think it is! It seems ol' Joe just couldn't stand the heat, and certainly couldn't handle playing the game on anything even remotely resembling an even playing field.

And on top of that, Nemesis MK2 went on the radio at one point and publicly admitted to forum spying on us. Not that you'd care about a little thing like that. After all, you're racist cheaters. I can't imagine there's much that would make an impression upon your consciences.

And what's this?:

If wading through carpets of a thousand weeds, setting off flares and occasionally 
graffiting the tag of your extinct group is engagement then it seems obvious that the 
rest of us who have been so insultingly insensitive as to actually offer you a decent 
run for your money have been doing it wrong all along. 

Maybe you've forgotten, my goal is to exterminate you. "Hardcore city", remember? If you'd prefer a tea party, maybe you should go to Malton. It seems to me that if we were to transfer your argument to another game, say Monopoly for instance, it would read something like "I should be allowed to steal money from the bank, refuse to pay rent on properties, and pick whatever chance cards I want from the deck. I may not be winning, but I'm keeping the game going and providing you with a challenge". In reality, you're just being a dick.

So in short, go cry to your mama, "chuckles". This post will be up just long enough for you to read it before being moved to archives. You're cluttering up my sightings page with this trash. --Necrofeelinya 01:54, 2 April 2010 (BST)

You know, I spent the past few hours thinking about how to respond to this and it's rather simple, I'lld rop it back into the context of the relationship I had with Petrosjeko the original founder of The Ridleybank Resistance Front in Malton way back in 2005, when my Gingerbread Men were still doing their thing en-mass, before it fell apart. Urbandead is a game. For a game to work both parties need to be having fun. The success of the Gingerbread Men as a respected group was there because we understood this simple fact and communicated to the RRF that we were gonna make a stand. Our stand lasted 12 hours or so originally. We didn' run away, we died to a man. Then I wrote the Candyland Project alongside the Civic Beautification Project to transform Ridleybank into the Candyland. It didn't take thousands of players to transform the game forever, it took 46. I am apparently a loud mouthed fool that has been shunned by every survivor in Borehamwood and yet I still have a long term survivor by my side - Tronton Foosh - our zombie friends like Fart Shrapnel are still there to this day, and players form the main group such as Dermot O'Leary, Nemesis MkII and Dipsomaniacal all shared what information they could with us because we were doing well wih surviving and working with the rest of the survivors. They fell off and away as the game server has progressed but what I've managed to do in being so loud and aggressive with my opinions is the same thing I've managed in Malton innumerable times. I've made the game enjoyable for both sides, and as a result have gained respect. Early on the zombies like Necrofeelingya here were bagging me out just as hard as you are Scribble, now they aren't. But they are still calling you a dick. Kind of funny that.

RNS-SDW from the beginning recognised that at any point they could die and so made the pact to have as much fun whilst surviving as possible. We were the first people to use Pinata's and at the time we had people like Isaac Yardley state, and I quote "You do not have the best interests of Survivors at heart" because we realised people were dying inside buildings and so, thanks to Storm Jameson, an outcast survivor in Monroeville we learnt how to pinata and survive that much longer. Then of course the zombie-metagame appeared and pinata's were no longer viable as a definite survival strategy because the rest of you survivors lost over a dozen survivors within a few days after a drought of 4-5 months of not a single death and decided to use pinata's. Did I get an apology from Yardley? No. Hypocrites.

How many of the Big Group of survivors have died this year?

How many RNS-SDW'ers have died this year?

We lost Rambo to a random feral because we grew complacent in the snow after taking a huge risk and not moving, not even having our zombie friends patrol near us so as no tracks would be visible leading to us. We lasted for a whole 3 months inside a building we had intended to stay in overnight before we were found. We didn't start patrols again after the snow stopped, we paid for our mistake. And yet...how many of us have been killed, actually killed by zombies since this time last year compared to the main group?

Yes, I'm a loud mouth, yes I may be a fool at times and yes I do not apply your own style of survival strategy within Borehamwood Scribble. But I am still alive. I have had a blast here. I've been responsible for almost 80% of all graffitti in Borehamwood, and I've had fun doing it. RNS-SDW started up a radio broadcast show a bit before Christmas last year, GNR is no longer the only Radio Show in Borehamwood (someone should fix that on the wikky page), The Taak and Rambo Fun Hour was epic and even had Isaac Yardley trying to prove I was in ca-hoots with the zombies here because of funny comments I dropped and dedicated songs to there. I have an inventory full of awesome: 7 FAK’s, Mobile Phone, Flak Jacket, Binoculars, 1xSpray Can (Need moar!), Tool Box, Fire Axe, Knife, Baseball Bat, Cricket Bat, Fencing Foil, Hockey Stick, Crowbar, Metal Pipe, Pool Cue, Golf Club, Newspaper (for the hugs/slaps), shotgun, MINUS 6 Flares. Yep, I don't fit into one of the big-groups classifications of what to carry to survive and be either a FAKman, a GUNman or a GENNY/BIT OF EVERYTHINGman. But hey, I'm still alive.

At the end of the day, I've been alive for far longer then most people, I've done more here, I've gained the respect of people on both sides alongside RNS-SDW when we did the 'If They Find Us We're Dead' suicide repairs of the Petrol Station in the West Countryside and the Farm in the NE when we were out cold for 4-5 days of negative AP, with such well respected Survivors as Dermot O'Leary himself stating that those fixes were too far, that we were insane to do them (this from the guy who suicided so many buildings he should have died in negative AP) and that we actually did do them successfully and live to tell the tale speaks volumes. Okay, lets just say I'm a loud mouthed fool who knows nothing and is full of shit. Petrosjeko and many of the original RRF will tell you otherwise as my simple organisation and written step-by-step AP-by-AP plan of 46 people to barricade the entirety of Ridlebank inside of less then 10 minutes (inadvertently timed with the Superbowl lol I had no idea) and then survive for 16 days before getting bored and playing zombies for a while shouts otherwise. That there are always survivors in Ridleybank these days and have been since that project but not before should proclaim that this fool isn't as much of a fool as he is being labelled.

Have a great day guys and girls, Auretious Taak. --Ram Rock Ed First 15:20, 2 April 2010 (AEST)

Seriously, you spent hours thinking about this? Was it worth it? lol. :) --Necrofeelinya 06:44, 2 April 2010 (BST)

I may have exaggerated a bit too much, I should have said 5 minutes, lol. It did give you some insights into survivor dynamics though and how the two remaining groups of Survivors in Borehamwood do actually operate. I do believe we spent a week hitting and healing each other with fencing foils at some point, which was most amusing indeed. I believe it was worth it, you did lol so definitely worth it.--Ram Rock Ed First 21:05, 2 April 2010 (AEST)

It's possible to use two characters in Malton within the confines of the multi-abuse rule because a variety of goals exists in Malton and ultimate victory is impossible. This may have been the case in Borehamwood for a few months, but that's not the case anymore. Not since the moment eliminating us became a possibility and your goal. You are not allowed to run alts at opposite sides of this city because they cannot help but share a common purpose. This is absolutely illegal. There is no question about it whatsoever.

In fact, for you to keep your alts separate is actually more advantageous to you than placing them together, since the bulk of the game for you involves covering ground and scouting for evidence of our presence. None of the other things you mentioned violate the rules. Being a friendly zombie, making pinatas, any other obnoxious use of the nuances of ruin and darkness: Not against the rules. (Forum spying isn't even against the rules, though you are correct to criticize that as it is essentially banned by tradition.) The only rule Urban Dead has ever had is the multi-abuse rule. You have now admitted breaking it.

Since nobody's hands are clean, this back & forth is pointless, and it is also offensive to those not engaging in it. It should be clear by now that everyone left in the game who's guilty of multi-abuse believes the other side started it and are just responding in kind. That's an argument no one needs to have. How do you hope it will play out, exactly? You yell at your friends, I yell at my friends, everyone is pissed off and unhappy. Over an issue that never mattered in the first place, in a fair fight everyone is enjoying. With all due respect, why don't you do some bong hits and play some Starcraft? I think you will feel much better. . . . einexile 06:51, 2 April 2010 (BST)

The coding of the game allows you to have an alt 5 blocks away operating without any penalty to action percentages. Any close and both characters get penalised and suck majorly. einexile, you say that you can run a friendly zombie alt and that is perfectly fine yet say the zombies can't run a friendly (to them) zombie alt because it is absolutely unacceptable by the rules of the game system. How do you justify that illogical logic? Because you are biasing the comment from a pro-survivor point of view? You say that the zombies have admitted to breaking it yet the survivors have also admitted to breaking it. Don't make me post up the list of multi-abuse friendly zombie accounts that we had running at the height of our Survival Resistance because I can at any point in time. BOTH sides are guilty of zerging/Multi-account abusing. However, for the most part, once the zombie-metagame evolved and they started hitting our fixed buildings with a dozen or more characters at the same time to massive success in our deaths, the majority of organised play multi-account abuse is no longer existent. In much the same way as PK'ing within the Top 100 was agreed to not be done, most people have agreed not to multi-abuse any more and it hasn't happened for over half a year, at least from my end, and I know from a chunk of the zombie meta because Joe Mofo and Gargula are brothers in real life and we got an intimate look into that aspect of their play. Now, the ONLY thing that Survivors seem to bitch about is zerging and it is unfathomable for them to recognise that every zombie player is a human being, they aren't dumb dip-shits with no braaainz but infact inelligent players wanting to enjoy the game. If this means organising via msn/skype/email/forum et al to attack a certain target at a single point in time scaled across the world for co-ordination, then so be it. How is this zerging? Next you're gonna turn around and tell me that the Gingerbread Men had zerged to do the Ridleybank projects way back in early 2006 because how else could 46 survivors do what far bigger groups had failed time and time again to achieve? Oh no, they must have been zerging.

einexile, I understand the intentions of your post, that you want to just calm everyone down and we all get along just fine again, but you've also posted some hypocritical comments in yourself, I've looked at them in my own way, others will do likewise. No one started multi-account abuse, not in Borehamwood it was happening many years before in Malton. There are people who were abusing the zerg play style on both sides who are no longer alive or active (I have a contacts list to support this for 20 odd characters) and those of us left aren't zerging. Many respected players from both sides have given their words time and time again that it isn't happening. People need to recognise and accept that it isn't happening, that we've all got secondary, third and forth or more levels of communications and intelligence sharing that give sthe impression of zerging but really is just properly organised communication and co-ordination of actions. Leave it there and don't die if you are a survivor. If you are a zombie come and catch us. Borehamwood has emphasised how balanced the game is, it really doesn't need anything else. The only thing is really needs is a scent life skill, but in this server that would unbalance the game completely so it simply is not needed. We're in a balanced game, with an unwritten balance not to zerg or abuse any of the rules happenng because it makes the eventual win of either side that much more sweeter because you didn't NEED to cheat to do it. It's the same with anything really.--Ram Rock Ed First 21:05, 2 April 2010 (AEST)

@mob - "Eventually you WILL get eaten along with your ever dwindling number of friends and no amount of whining will change that."

Did you really just say that? Have you ever SEEN a zombie movie? Do you even KNOW what an apocalypse is? THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.

Is that what keeps you going through the lean times? The knowledge that your victory is inevitable? hahahaha - that would sure explain why you're so sluggish and ineffective. Look man, you're a straight up zerger, always have been, you don't even bother to give your alts original names. That slamming sound that you can hear ringing in your ears right now is the case closing. Mind your fingers.

@necro - "BLABLABLA... I've sorted out your stupid tricks, and can kill you regardless... BLABLABLA"

you see what I mean about the camp pantomime villain thing now, right? We should ask Kevan to give you tight pants, a twirly mustache and a cape.

about the 4 3dogs, idk much about GNR's operation but I do know they have a lot of support, so unless you had for example SOME EVIDENCE of zerging, I see no reason to doubt that it's friends of theirs from Malton helping out with scouting. From what I understand, you are running a similar alt-farming programme, if rather less successfully. Classy players find it easier to get people to help them. There's a lesson for you in there somewhere.

ditto the stuff about Joe, take it up with him if you want, nothing to do with me. btw: when you do rage-delete this convo, be sure to add a transparently lame excuse saying it's because it's cluttering up your page. Oh wait, you already did that.

about asdironh - yeah, see, I'm happy to let people make their own minds up about whether this means we are in fact all racists. Did you pull this line of reasoning out of your ass? Don't be such a numbnut, you're making this too easy for me.

"October 15, 2009, wiki user --Saburai 03:30, (AKA Joe England), vandalizes my wiki news page because he's butthurt"

OH NO YOU DIDN'T!

Did you just drop the butthurt bomb?! I think you did.

Can you supply a better definition of butthurt than you failing to kill the same 20 survivors for 1.5% of A CENTURY?

Or sinking to the level of calling superior opponents cheats while you exploit the same game mechanics as they do?

You will of course believe that you can. You can not.

"Oh, and as for the game being "wildly skewed in favor of zombies", a) every time one of you dies it actually gets harder for zombies, as we run low on targets and you truly have an enormous area in which to hide,."

mmm'kay -

1. learn2quote

2. your a) - do you actually HAVE to be retarded to believe this? - learn2number in AP, NAO

"As for your cheap bragging, I don't give credit for longevity to "survivors" who use workarounds and exploits."

wait, what? are you serious? no credit? well, I think we can safely say that none of Borehamwood's survivors will ever be able to draw any satisfaction for having comprehensively outwitted you at every turn EVER again. haha - just kidding of course. Look, nobody cares about your good opinion mate, your 'credit' is worthless while you and your followers abuse multi-accounts and simultaneously throw around hysterical accusations about survivors being the only players zerging on this map. It's rank hypocrisy, it's disingenuous and it invalidates everything else you say. Stop preaching to the gallery while you're cheating under the table. Oh, and my bragging ain't cheap. It was purchased over the last 500 something days, rag-dolling your sorry ass around this town. There's few enough people left who can fairly say that, I reckon it's time someone did. Especially given the constant trickle of moronic abusive drivel we've had to put up with from you since the start.

"Maybe you've forgotten, my goal is to exterminate you. "Hardcore city", remember? If you'd prefer a tea party, maybe you should go to Malton. It seems to me that if we were to transfer your argument to another game, say Monopoly for instance, it would read something like "I should be allowed to steal money from the bank, refuse to pay rent on properties, and pick whatever chance cards I want from the deck. I may not be winning, but I'm keeping the game going and providing you with a challenge". In reality, you're just being a dick".

At first I was like: totally. Then I was like: wait, wtf? At the end I was like: hmmm, butthurt much?

Yawn. Your weak analogy is made of nothing but pointless, irrelevant fail. I dismiss it out of hand.

If you have a case to make, try to frame it in terms that actually make sense. Also, try to frame it in terms that don't condemn you and yours at the same time. You can play ignorant here and take that self-righteous line again, but I warn ya, it's getting so thin you can see right through it. You underestimate how well we know you all by now - probably better than you know yourselves. Still, there's no way you can be unaware of the multi-account using on your own side, among your own people.

Go read einexile's post again, he is both rational and kind-hearted whereas I am merely rational. Keep re-reading it until you understand it. Until you understand that you are a zerger too, have been from the moment the city fell, when you couldn't keep your 'survivor' character alive and started running two 'independent' zeds. Understand it, and then shut up about it - forever.

Taak - look w/e man - RRF, blablabla srsly w/e. You could have a chest full of medals and your words would still have to stand or fall on their own merit. Stop trying to prove a point by showing off your credentials.

"I've made the game enjoyable for both sides, and as a result have gained respect."

Um, yah, I think that's actually up to others to decide, not you, and I can think of ohhhh about fifty people who would say, who? the drama guy? w/e.

"It did give you some insights into survivor dynamics though and how the two remaining groups of Survivors in Borehamwood do actually operate."

See this is just the sort of self-important nonsense that we've come to expect. Wake up kid, there ARE no two groups of survivors working in Borehamwood, there is you, and everyone else, and you don't do anything.

insights into survivor dynamics? don't make me rofl. You don't KNOW anything about survivor dynamics.

Also, you shouldn't talk smack about Yardley, son. You really have no clue what you're talking about. The only reason you're still alive is because Yardley asked ppl not to PK you. Repeatedly. Why, idk.

The only reason you're able to play the way you do is because the zombie meta are all chasing us because we actually, you know, do stuff? Repairs and cades and stuff. You should try it sometime. If they focused instead on an organized, systematic search of generic ruins you'd be dead in a week. Like it or not, your continued survival depends on our continued survival. The same couldn't be said to be true in reverse however. The game is much the same for us, with or without you. You chose to stay on the outside, be the maverick, the LaMOE. You made yourself irrelevant. Don't go blaming anyone else. Scribble 18:06, 2 April 2010 (BST)

You might want to learn how to sign off so as people know who the fuck you are. It's wiki etiquette that you at least sign your name off even if there is no link to a wiki account name. Who are you man? At least the rest of us use our wiki names and also repeat our ingame names as well. Furthermore, if I recall correctly, it's also wiki etiquette to use full words when you write not short-hand like 'learn2quote' and 'NAO'. Try 'Learn to quote' and 'NOW' next time so as you don't come off as childish and netboy'ish.

I do love how you try to talk me down by using the example of 'like 50 people who would say who? the drama guy?' and that you fail to realise that that sentence alone provokes interest because those 50 people know who I am, I don't even know who half the Top 100 survivors are/were. Yet more then half of them (50 plus yourself, plus all of RNS-SDW = more then half) know of me? Epic. Throw in props from the organised zombie-metagame on multiple occasions and I think thats a pretty good place to start a basis of support for my opinion right there.

How can you say I don't know anything about survivor dynamics? I'm a survivor? A Top 20 Survivor at that who hasn't idled out yet. Do we avoid you guys to survive? Maybe. The fact is you don't know. We did indeed fix and then ruin a few buildings we bumped into randomly that were at 40-50 AP to fix in the past month which have only been fixed in the past week. E.g. South West Borehamwood. We've always fixed buildings sporadically to keep the AP down to keep them maintainable without undue risk. You know, the very stuff you acuse us of not having done. Maybe you should learn to be better informed. If the zombies did a systematic search of the ruins, you'd be dead too. If you guys aren't in open ruins and are ALSO using caded buildings as your safe houses each night, then that eliminates ruins and systematically we all get killed pretty damned fast. In any case, my own strategy for survival is working better then yours. The only thing is, you guys cannot afford the risk of changing your strategy to mimic whatever it is mine and RNS-SDW's is whatever you believe it to be because to do so will see us all dead very fast. Yes the zombies are chasing your fixed buildings, but they are also chasing our fixed buildings regardless of what you might think. Also, if I am so irrelevant, why is it that you chose to respond to me at all?

Why do I talk smack about Yardley? Because we BOTH (Yardley and I) talk smack about each other. You say you don't know why Isaac said not to PK me, and yet you also say I have no concept of Survivor Dynamics. Funny thing that, especially as your statement shows that Isaac understood the concept of consequences which you have not. But lets highlight this for you in plain and simple words so as you can understand them - Maybe it's because we all made an agreement early on in the Top 100 to NOT PK anyone and to instead focus on surviving. Rambo and co talked me out of PK'ing members of your group innumerable times becase I just need to vent in text form once in a while. I'm not stupid enough to follow through with that sort of aggressiveness because of the consequences and the whole breaking of my word not to do it. Did it not occur to you that multiple times I could have PK'ed people in the main group at any time? That RNS-SDW would sit idly by after you PK'ed me and let you live without consequences? Of course not, but then unlike you lot it'd be a simple we'll scout your location, and tell the zombies where you are thus leaving us free of a connection to retaliatory movements/murder against you. And hey, why did you follow Isaac Yardley's request when you could have used an unidentified friendly zombie after locating me to kill me instead and keep you guys scott free? I know when we listed friendly zombies on Harold Monroe's forum that not all friendly zombies were listed so it was possible. It would have been clean and safe for you guys. Why didn't you think of that? We had that option multiple times and we never acted on it. Did you ever think why?--Ram Rock Ed First 03:29, 3 April 2010 (AEST)

good point, post signed retrospectively. I'm a little new to the wiki so you'll have to just bear with me.

"netboy'ish"? what are you, 90 years old? get with the program grandpappy, learn2internets NAO.

wait, so when ppl say "who? the drama guy?" you see that as a positive reflection on your reputation? LMFAO - you are the only person who could ever see it that way. It's mortifyingly typical that you believe what you want to believe, regardless of the facts.

Truly, there are some folks you just can't reach with common sense and reasoned argument. Reality check: You talk loud but you've got NOTHING.

And once again you're talking out of your behind. Can you show any documentary evidence of this so-called agreement not to PK? You're in fantasy la-la land mate. Get a grip. Stop making things up to suit yourself, it just makes you look desperate and, frankly, unstable.

"I just need to vent in text form once in a while."

once in a while? you mean, only when you're awake? look, when you figure out how to do something other than "vent in text form" as you call it, or "have an emo-meltdown all over the wiki" as everyone else calls it, then we can talk. Until then, you're just some no-mark bystander. Peace out. Scribble 18:06, 2 April 2010 (BST)

I'd like to point out, for the record that I labelled the repairs as insane because I didn't see the tactical benefit. It was nice to sit three squares away with a zombie and wander past everyday to see what zombies were clawing away at you, my issue with the petrol station was the lack of entry point and complete lack of a fall back position when breached. As for suicide repairs, they are and always will be the way forward. Many of us did 300+ repairs in borehamood. Several survivors recently did this n Radlett and its the only way to aid survival. --Rosslessness^{Want a Location Image?} 09:49, 2 April 2010 (BST)

The tactical benefits were simple: The zombies were not patrolling those area's regularly and indeed had given up on the farm for quite some time asides from the odd feral bumping past. The Petrol Station was a safe point jump between Radlett and Elstree and pinata'd up meant that you could camp the night then de-cade with friendly zeds the next day and not have zeds alerted to the jump. The Farm House gave us ammunition, shotguns and FAK's whilst being a safe haven away from the main fixed buildings in NE. We were there during a time where zombies were swarming NE but didn't go anywhere near the farm, they left and still we were there. Pretty good safehouse, very tactical move. Pretty sure the main group didn't maintain either as we haven't been back that way for ages. The Petrol Station was also done because at the time we wanted to fix all 4 buildings in the West Countryside purely so we could turn the west into a GREEN ZONE on the wiki map as a major taunt to the zombies as a whole. We didn't have the numbers to do the country-house and the main group weren't interested in helping. Shame really, it would have been fun. Just imagine the zombies reactions all grey then one green area. It didn't eventuate unfortunately. I do agree on suicide repairs being the way forward, it's funny now because you can leave your character idle out and only worry about being protected for 7 days before you are safe and the rest of the group can move on elsewhere before you idle back in on positive AP 2 or 3 days later (456+ AP to fix buildings is awesome to see, I wish in Malton there was a building like that, just pack the NT Lab in Ridleybank with 200 zeds and log in every day to keep numbers up and make it the longest ruined building around, lol). The Petrol Station was nasty as a repair because of the lack of entry point, as well as no supporting buildings that you could hide behind in terms of barricades increasing the chances of the suicide repairer surviving the repair, but it was a fun repair, and yeah, those zombies built up fairly quickly as well...Good to see you here again Dermot, is the Survivor Vs Zombie Ratio correct today? It hasn't changed for ages and ages (well past week or so it has) and it's nice to see how many of us are left. With 20 survivor characters left active we need a Top 20 list (Top 100 idled out for a long period and idled back in have not survived for as long as people who have not idled out regardless of whether they are standing or not) because it will be interesting to see who is left active as a whole as not all of us know and most of us have upped skills and profiles over the past 6-8 months as well. And pass on my congratulations to the people who did Radlett, we're out of the loop completely and have been for some time so had no idea at all that it has been done. Cheers mate, have a good one.--Ram Rock Ed First 00:25, 3 April 2010 (AEST)

To the repeated statements that RNS-SDW is not a group anymore that it is just me left alive, well first of all, a number of us in RNS-SDW chose to keep our original group name even if that name was a solo name in the first place. Second of all, I realised ages back before the meta-zombies started removing their own group names that our zombies could be scent deathed and thus tracked by hostile zombies so none of our zombies still active and providing all sorts of comic relief with us have had the RNS-SDW group tag for quite some time. It doesn't matter that they are undead because we all have spoken in zombeese to our zombie compatriots quite a significant amount of the time. Rambo was especially skilled at it, emphasised when Layre was in with us as well, never before have I heard zombeese dirty talk as when in the prescence of those two...We may not be a conventional group, but we're stilla group in much the same way as the zombie-meta group is a group for the simple fact that they are running together and many have for a very long time indeed.

Nerofeelingya, you need to shift this to a separate discussion page to speed up the load time of the page again, just send a link from here so we all know where it ends up. It's nice to know this is the most conversation I've had with other survivors outside RNS-SDW in the past 4 months. lol.--Ram Rock Ed First 03:45, 3 April 2010 (AEST)

Scribble said "Look man, you're a straight up zerger, always have been". Anytime you can prove my alts are closer than 20 blocks apart and not working independently, you just go right ahead and make your case. Till then you might just as well put your finger back in your hole because you got NOTHING on me. You build up the same 6 clusters and run in circles, heck yeah your gonna encounter both my alts on a regular basis (maybe even a few hours apart). 10,000 square map and your getting tore up by a dozen zombies. Cry me a river. Get out of the fetal position, dry your eyes, and stand up straight. --Mob mentality 00:29, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Tell you what, Scribble. Since there seems to be a major disagreement here, I think we can resolve the "zerging" issue fairly simply. I think I can guarantee that every member of my group with a spare zombie alt will idle it out on one condition. Since nobody left in the BH 100 managed to get there without multi-abuse, it's only fair and proper that you kill yourselves. I'll be generous enough to post "DQ'd for multi abuse" on the BH 100 page next to each of your names. It's only appropriate, after all, each of you took the place of a non-multi-abusing player on that list through deliberate cheating. Don't worry that we zombies won't have anyone left to hunt, there seem to be an abundance of level 1, 0 XP players popping up lately. Why, we've killed 2 or 3 of them in the last few days alone, and look how similar the names are on 2 of them! Calvin MachiavelIi, Calvin MachiaveIli. So there's really nothing to worry about as far as the game ending. People will keep bringing out old alts, and we'll keep hunting them like we always have. But this way, we'll have cleared the air and made things right. Whaddya say, Scribble? Does your team care to man up and show respect for the rules for once? Or are you going to keep asking for an FBI wiretap to prove you've all broken the rules, and barking at us for keeping to a higher standard of conduct you couldn't begin to comprehend, much less adhere to with any degree of success?--Necrofeelinya 02:10, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Ram Rock, in light of the fact that Rambo Ninja Spdrman himself (or Angel Wolf/Mocha Absinthe/Almond with Tietjens/nonPathetic Bill) was recently added to the Zerg List, would you like to comment on these developments? http://zombies.dementiastudios.org/boards/index.php?topic=12.135 --Akbar 15:00, 3 April 2010 (BST)

Sure thing Akbar. I see you are citing all of Rambo's Malton characters and you are bringing Malton zerging appearances into Borehamwood and trying to imply that people who zerg in Malton zerg in Borehamwood. There is a distinct difference between the two maps. In Malton I've had 30 of my characters at once in the same building. It was a few years back before the 50 person limit hit and it confused people mightily (and I was very bored at the time so talked to myself lol). I've tag teamed PK'ed with half a dozen characters people who were zerging the group I was with because irony is irony. When you list Rambo's characters there above you do not list ANY of his other characters in Borehamwood - namely, his zombie, which is leading a separate life and was actually hunting humans. Now that Rambo isn't rising from the dead, his zombie is running closer to where we are. It's still living a separate life purely because he is running one character. Now, throw in the motives behind zerging and there are 2. The first is the one everyone hates, where you zerg up massed characters to fuck over people ingame via attacking. The second is zerging because you and your group are a Role Playing Group. The Zoo has alot of zergers which sit around and talk and don't do much else. I have A Studious Librarian at the Zoo, Ram Rock Ed First was also at the zoo recently when we did the 4th Annual Gingerbread Men/Zombie Fishbake (we lasted over 3 weeks with the Aquarium open and had a rather large turn out, it was the most successful one yet, and no, anyone with multiple characters had them at separate parts of the zoo not interacting, to my knowledge). By definition it was zerging, but it wasn't affecting anyone negatively at all or us positively. Considering in my case, the librarian has just books on him and Ram has just melee weapons (every single one, hoooo-yeah!) and like 20 pumpkins we couldn't do jack to zerg negatively anyways. I expanded more on these thoughts at barhah.com:

http://www.barhah.com/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=15777&p=214576#p214576

To summarise though, Rambo didn't zerg in Borehamwood, his characters that were leading separate lives were doing just that, just like mine, separate groups of survivors which weren't actually interferring with the other group or sharing intelligence other then a broad - I have a character over there, we don't wanna go there it'll inevitably screw up our vital looting efforts on both characters; or My zombie is over there, lets avoid there because he wants to eat braaainz in peace. Most of us don't have second or third characters in Borehamwood. The Zerging label NEEDS to be separated for Perma-death servers and Non-perma death servers as both servers and zerging within each NEED to be separate as they DO NOT affect the way characters are played in either server. At least on our end. Call Rambo a zerger, fine, but do it in Malton, and whilst you are there, call me a zerger, but in malton, NOT Borehamwood. Evader and Evader2, they're zerging in Borehamwood, drop a character, simple really, run just one character and you can't take any of the benefits of covering more ground on opposite sides of the city whilst hiding behind the line they are leading separate existences. And yes, that's zombies zerging in Borehamwood when they aren't zerging in the traditional sense. Different servers, different rules and definitions on zerging.--Ram Rock Ed First 11:42, 4 April 2010 (AEST)

Different servers, different rules and definitions on zerging, eh? Weird. Who makes these rules? Because as far as I can tell, Kevan is the one that defined alt abuse not you or a bunch of other cheating survivors. You say in one sentence that Rambo didn't zerg in Borehamwood because "his characters that were leading separate lives were doing just that" and then a few sentences later condemn Evader for having two zombies 100 blocks apart. Funny interpretation of the rules there, isn't it? All that said, I do admire your pro-funsies take on the game. I have nothing against you. In fact, like I said on barhah.com, honestly, the monumental level of cheating I have personally witnessed from the survivors of Borehamwood actually contributes to MY funsies. If you weren't cheating you would ALL be dead by now and I wouldn't have anyone to chase...and that would be BORING. Have fun! I will too! --Akbar 03:42, 4 April 2010 (BST)

tl;dr srsly, doesn't anyone know how to do these combo breaker things?

I'm a little confused (actually, very confused, but we'll start with this minor confusion first.) You say the two (3) maps are on different servers? Why is it that when you made a character in Monroeville you couldn't have the same name in Malton? Also, the "one suburb" rule is really just to stop people from abusing loopholes. If you want to take it literally (the only way we're really supposed to take it, since a misinterpretation can get your characters frozen, blacklisted, zerg listed, whatever,) you should really define a suburb as 10x10 squares as every suburb in Malton is laid out. If you've got 2 characters in that square, you're zerging according to Kevan's words.

Furthermore, the hard definition of zerging is two characters within "proximity" controlled by the same player. There is nothing in Kevan's zerging/multi-abuse FAQs concerning "role playing." If you've got a character standing outside the X building and one inside the same building, that's cheating. Just because you haven't been flagged for it, doesn't make it any more fair for the players you're up against. Furthermore, I'd say that proxy abuse is a form of cheating, considering some players donate for their characters and are still forced to sit through epic fucking lag because there's some group of "role playing" douchebags stuffing the zoo with eleventy alts each. Just something to think about. Some of us actually donate to keep the game responsive rather than needing the IP hits. Most of this response is directed at Ram Rock there btw, as I'm sure Akbar has a firm grasp on what is considered fair play in Urban Dead. Ram Rock and Rambo ninja spidrman obviously failed to grasp that concept.

Ah and one more thing. A long time ago I was talking to my Hindu friend about sins and hell. We were comparing dogmas I guess. I was telling her about all the negativity in Christianity since she'd never heard about it except through the media (movies, TV, music and so on. This was before the interwebs were prolific enough to earn a name "world wide web," kids.) And she taught me some rather interesting stuff about her religion. Like how according to some hindu belief, there's a different planet for each of the different "sins." One of them was for the sin of "loving too much" (more literally: rape, avarice, glutony, greed, etc.) Just something to think about there. Hey, maybe you can tie that back into that epic faggotry angel wolf/rambo ninja spidrman has going on with inglorius basterds over on brainSUCK. Cuz you know, the Nazis were into all that junk. --Amber Waves of Pain 06:00, 4 April 2010 (BST)

I do not know who edited out my response, but it's poor form. I meant what I said. Amber Waves of Pain you have seriously offended me and countless otherss by indirectly calling a number of us Nazi's and bringing religious views into it which have no bearing on this game or this discussion. You do not know who you have offended in your post above. Seeing as alot of this discussion is opinions from various viewpoints might I remind you that some people view Christianity as a perfect religion with no negativity whatsoever in much the same way that many people view Islam as the only true religion and anyone who says otherwise is an Infidel and should be removed from the earth for their affrontery to Islam. There is NO PLACE for that shit here.

Furthermore, removal of my response to the 2 paragraphs above was uncalled for as they responded objectively to the comments. Rambo has sponsored characters in Borehamwood and chose NOT to transfer the donation tag to Malton Characters when he had the chance. He also has sponsored characters in Malton. I also have 3 sponsored characters in Malton, made in 2005, I still run one of those sponsored characters as my only character that is active in Malton. Yeah...neither me nor Rambo understand about sponsoring to keep a server going yet we've sponsored despite understanding about proxy IP addresses which means we can in effect run an unlimited amount of chaacters for free. Amber Waves of Pain, you are full of shit, get your facts right before acusing our character as Human beings of things that we aren't and think about what you say before you post it. --Ram Rock Ed First 17:20, 4 April 2010 (AEST)

I undid your edits at the request of a member of this group. For future reference, you should not split apart someone else's comment and insert your own commentary in between their paragraphs, since doing so is, to use your phrase, considered poor form. I saw that you were thoughtful enough to insert an additional signature so that it was clear who had said what, but that is not sufficient. Please respond after the other person's comment, since their comment was meant to be taken in whole, not part. Also, if you'd like to get your comments back, just check the history for this page. Everything you posted before is still saved there. Please note that I have nothing vested in this argument, have no desire to get involved, and do not want to take sides if at all possible. I was simply asked for some technical help and I leant a hand. —Aichon— 09:20, 4 April 2010 (BST)

That's fine Aichon, I was unaware of that as it was done to me previously in this thread before I put it back when i first typed it because it didn't make sense otherwise. The other point would be does every comment have to be made after the last one posted or can you insert a whole comment between two separate whole comments? Cheers mate, I'm basically done with this thread as it's just getting nasty and going to turn circular very fast. --Ram Rock Ed First 18:40, 4 April 2010 (AEST)

I didn't call you a Nazi, Ram Rock. I don't even know you, frankly I don't really care to. I was under the mistaken assumption that you knew what your friend Rambo Ninja Spidrman was up to. You know, since you seem to know exactly how effective he is with his AP so as to measure it against mine. (lol@you btw.) So go and see for yourself. He's taken on the role of some Nazi killing action hero and cast the people who exposed his zerging as the villains, who just happen to be Nazis. So, I suppose you'd be fine with that, since the people he's calling Nazis are pretty strongly anti-zerg players? Just curious. Your opinion really means jack shit but your defenses are rather amusing. Anyway, as Aichon mentioned, I have no problem with what you wrote, I'd have no problem with your friend calling me and my friends Nazis either. An arrow only stings if it hits it's mark. So meh. Godwin's law. Whatever. But you misrepresented what I wrote when you butted in all 'roid raging like that at the mention of Nazis. You chopped up my post and then put words in my mouth by signing for me. I'm a member of this group. You're not. And it's pretty clear that you're not going to get the response you want out of the players responding to you here. So, as it has been put to you so very eloquently on barhah.com, fuck off you stupid griefing zerg. @Aichon, thank you for being ever so polite, resourceful and helpful, as always, <3 --Amber Waves of Pain 10:26, 4 April 2010 (BST)

Curious why my updates were deleted

Hi there. I saw that the page had an invitation reading "Please feel free to add new barricade info down below". So I did so, for 3 barricaded buildings my Borehamwood zambah has found. The next day, my updates were removed by BadgerW. Is this because I'm not a member of a group? If so, I'll keep my barricade sightings to myself. I'm just curious why this happened. Thanks. Marcel Swann 12:30, 10 September 2010 (BST)

Purely an accident, data that BadgerW posts is generated automatically based on people who use the submitter. Could you please check those locations again? reports from later that day don't show barricades at Herne Walk and Brazey Bank. Thanks in advance! --~~~~ [talk] 17:03, 11 September 2010 (BST)