Suggestion talk:20070715 Lie Down
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What's the Point?
Really, if it costs more AP to lie down and stand up than when you get headshot what's the point? I'd rather get headshot anyways, make the survivors waste their ammo. If a zombie breaks into a building and lies down, it's not like survivors won't dump him. Apocalyptic doom 21:03, 10 October 2008 (BST)
Kill
- Kill - 8AP isn't much for immortality while logged out. --Midianian 11:45, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Yeah, what would this game be like if zombies could log out secure with the knowledge they could just stand up with full HP for a small AP cost when they logged back in?--Insomniac By Choice 11:49, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Boring. --Midianian 11:54, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Okay, because you missed the tone of the above statement, I'll say it plainly: as a zombie, deaths are unimportant because you're already immortal. AP is important, but not deaths. Any time you log out, you know when you log in again at worst you'll just have to stand up again with full HP so this is not a significant change in that respect.--Insomniac By Choice 12:04, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- I understood your tone perfectly. What I meant with "Boring" was that while (zombie-)deaths aren't important for zombies, they are for survivors. Your suggestion would effectively rob survivors of any chance to earn XP, except by PK or in cases where you happen on a zombie who's online. --Midianian 12:30, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Only if you assume zombies would lie down every night, which I think is more than a little bit silly. You're better off taking a headshot and standing up than lying down and standing up. For any given individual, it has little value. Most feral zombies wouldn't want to wake up with -7 AP than possible, especially if the worst they get from a headshot is 6 AP lost, and they might not even suffer that. It's value comes entirely from doing it with a group, and only then for very highly leveled zombies. You may argue that it would prevent survivors from killing zombies in sieges if a coordinated group laid down every night, but it's also true that there's no reason to kill zombies outside in a siege whatsoever. Killing zombies has no benefit to survivors (except as XP) unless they're inside, and if zombies lie down inside, all the easier to toss them out and rebarricade. Plus, I'd remind you that most zombies already suffer from boredom and the inability to gain XP when survivors are practically invulnerable inside EHB buildings all day. It's true that they're in there and can be attacked, but unless it's done when a larger group, zombies have a tough time finding and killing survivors at all.--Insomniac By Choice 12:46, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- The thing is that zombies are mostly bored because they don't have anything to do. No one to attack. Your suggesting would effectively make survivors as bored as zombies or even more so. And being inside EHB buildings isn't invulnerability, I've taken singlehandedly an EHB building down within 50AP. --Midianian 13:10, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- You're a fool thinking that a single zombie would be able to do anything to players inside and EHB building. This suggestion hurts young zombies just as much as young survivors, more even thanks to survivors still being able to heal and such which is still a very common way to gain early levels. Zombies only have biting other zombies thanks to the brokenness of barricades so your point is in many ways moot and ill-informed.--karek 04:48, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- That's not what I meant and that was not my point. My point was that if zombies are lying down all day, the survivors are going to be as bored as the zombies! And what I meant with taking the EHB building down was that if there had been other zombies there when I did that, they would have had a feast. Hardly invulnerability. Whereas this suggestion would give absolute invulnerability to the zombies. You can't kill a corpse. --Midianian 11:00, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- You shouldn't need to kill a zombie anyway, survivors have ways of gaining xp free of zombie interaction, zombies have no ways of gaining xp free of survivor interaction, at least not any reasonable ones. The point is this isn't invulnerability and this doesn't slow survivor xp gain in any real way.--karek 11:12, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- I'll put it as simply as I can; "Killing Zombies" == "Not Boring" and "Not Killing Zombies" == "Boring". --Midianian 12:26, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- Since when does that matter? Please, tell me how much fun it is wasting 50 AP on barricades?--karek 12:27, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- Since nobody would play this game if it was boring? And I know that attacking barricades isn't fun but do you really think that justifies making the other side miserable too? --Midianian 19:18, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- Since when does that matter? Please, tell me how much fun it is wasting 50 AP on barricades?--karek 12:27, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- I'll put it as simply as I can; "Killing Zombies" == "Not Boring" and "Not Killing Zombies" == "Boring". --Midianian 12:26, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- You shouldn't need to kill a zombie anyway, survivors have ways of gaining xp free of zombie interaction, zombies have no ways of gaining xp free of survivor interaction, at least not any reasonable ones. The point is this isn't invulnerability and this doesn't slow survivor xp gain in any real way.--karek 11:12, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- That's not what I meant and that was not my point. My point was that if zombies are lying down all day, the survivors are going to be as bored as the zombies! And what I meant with taking the EHB building down was that if there had been other zombies there when I did that, they would have had a feast. Hardly invulnerability. Whereas this suggestion would give absolute invulnerability to the zombies. You can't kill a corpse. --Midianian 11:00, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- You're a fool thinking that a single zombie would be able to do anything to players inside and EHB building. This suggestion hurts young zombies just as much as young survivors, more even thanks to survivors still being able to heal and such which is still a very common way to gain early levels. Zombies only have biting other zombies thanks to the brokenness of barricades so your point is in many ways moot and ill-informed.--karek 04:48, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- You forget that zombies can earn XP of other zombies if all the barricades are too high for them to get inside. 'arm. 05:00, 16 July 2007 (BST)
- The thing is that zombies are mostly bored because they don't have anything to do. No one to attack. Your suggesting would effectively make survivors as bored as zombies or even more so. And being inside EHB buildings isn't invulnerability, I've taken singlehandedly an EHB building down within 50AP. --Midianian 13:10, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Only if you assume zombies would lie down every night, which I think is more than a little bit silly. You're better off taking a headshot and standing up than lying down and standing up. For any given individual, it has little value. Most feral zombies wouldn't want to wake up with -7 AP than possible, especially if the worst they get from a headshot is 6 AP lost, and they might not even suffer that. It's value comes entirely from doing it with a group, and only then for very highly leveled zombies. You may argue that it would prevent survivors from killing zombies in sieges if a coordinated group laid down every night, but it's also true that there's no reason to kill zombies outside in a siege whatsoever. Killing zombies has no benefit to survivors (except as XP) unless they're inside, and if zombies lie down inside, all the easier to toss them out and rebarricade. Plus, I'd remind you that most zombies already suffer from boredom and the inability to gain XP when survivors are practically invulnerable inside EHB buildings all day. It's true that they're in there and can be attacked, but unless it's done when a larger group, zombies have a tough time finding and killing survivors at all.--Insomniac By Choice 12:46, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- I understood your tone perfectly. What I meant with "Boring" was that while (zombie-)deaths aren't important for zombies, they are for survivors. Your suggestion would effectively rob survivors of any chance to earn XP, except by PK or in cases where you happen on a zombie who's online. --Midianian 12:30, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Okay, because you missed the tone of the above statement, I'll say it plainly: as a zombie, deaths are unimportant because you're already immortal. AP is important, but not deaths. Any time you log out, you know when you log in again at worst you'll just have to stand up again with full HP so this is not a significant change in that respect.--Insomniac By Choice 12:04, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Boring. --Midianian 11:54, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Yeah, what would this game be like if zombies could log out secure with the knowledge they could just stand up with full HP for a small AP cost when they logged back in?--Insomniac By Choice 11:49, 15 July 2007 (BST)
healing part
Kill - i don't like the whole "healing" part. --Duke GarlandTLCD SSZ 11:53, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- What about the HP recovery from lying down bothers you? This is basically self-imposed death so you shouldn't be severely penalized (beyond the XP cost of buying it and AP cost of using it) more than dying. A zombie can headshot himself in the location of his choice, but he shouldn't have to wake up with 30 HP instead of 50 or 60 because he laid down a day ago with that much. It's not immediate restoration (so it's already less efficient than actually dying) and because of the massive AP costs takes a very long time to actually be worthwhile. Like I replied to the other guy, this is an extremely situational skill where it actually benefits zombies to use. As a zombie, what it actually does in itself is not in any way powerful.--Insomniac By Choice 12:10, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Zombies can be shot to small HP (but not killed) even outside and this is good to survivors - they don't need to waste much time/resources to kill and dump such zombie out. therefor there is digestion and the whole "Zombie's health" thing is rather balanced. when i play my zombie character i've always happy when someone kills me while outside - i restore HP. Now you want to give this to zombies for free --Duke GarlandTLCD SSZ 13:00, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- No, I want to give it to zombies for a minimum of 8 AP.--Insomniac By Choice 13:04, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Not a crucial difference...--Duke GarlandTLCD SSZ 13:09, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- No, I want to give it to zombies for a minimum of 8 AP.--Insomniac By Choice 13:04, 15 July 2007 (BST)
- Zombies can be shot to small HP (but not killed) even outside and this is good to survivors - they don't need to waste much time/resources to kill and dump such zombie out. therefor there is digestion and the whole "Zombie's health" thing is rather balanced. when i play my zombie character i've always happy when someone kills me while outside - i restore HP. Now you want to give this to zombies for free --Duke GarlandTLCD SSZ 13:00, 15 July 2007 (BST)
