Suggestion talk:20070817 1 xp for Ruin
I'd actually left off the XP reward for ruining because of the survivor benefit, and the bored-zombie phenomenon. If ruining was worth an extra XP, there'd be slightly more zombies automatically wrecking empty buildings as a no-brainer XP source, irrespective of any tactical decisions to leave buildings intact. I was seeing how it played out, though, and am open to feedback. --Kevan 11:44, 17 August 2007 (BST)
- As things stand the only reason to ruin a building is because it's fun to try out the new feature. There is really no tactical reason for zombies to ruin buildings and every reason not to. I personally think the best thing to do is to lower toolbox encumbrance to 2% or 4% or something low like that, and require 6AP to to repair a ruined building (not my idea originally). That would at least even things up AP wise. From a reality point of view it really should require MORE ap to repair. If someone doubts that they are welcome to come to my house and watch my kids destroy the place (takes minutes), then see how long it takes them to clean up (takes hours).... Oh, and my generator suggestion of course (Suggestion:20070814_No_Genny_in_Ruined_Building). As many replies to suggestions are getting the "too early" kill vote, I'll wait a bit before adding this as a suggestion. --DonTickles 18:18, 17 August 2007 (BST)
- There are a few good reasons to use it, but very few. Survivors have more use for it than zombies do.--Karekmaps?! 22:06, 17 August 2007 (BST)
- There are a couple of major tactical reasons why zombies should ruin buildings (that I can think of off the top of my head). The horde now knows which surrounding buildings are ransacked (and don't need further attention) from the street, and it forces some of the most selfless survivors (regular barricaders) to get a toolkit and thereby is another major reduction in space in their inventory for FAKs or ammo (or whatever). So regularly ruining buildings forces the selfless (and most AP productive) survivors to reduce their healing/killing power, while not affecting the trenchy types at all (I mean, they don't worry about 'cades until their eaten anyway, so they won't get a toolkit if it means dropping a couple of shotties) The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 10:44 18 August 2007 (BST)
- I'm not going to go into the math involved in showing how the ruin update unbalances things quite highly towards survivors because frankly, it doesn't seem like you are going to figure it out for yourself just yet and I would prefer not to give you a weapon against the zombie cause. Your smaller inventory is a small consolation to zombies if you survivors figure it out.--DonTickles 16:31, 20 August 2007 (BST)
I'd like to see it block free running or something like that. Maybe you can free-run into it, but not out. Then survivors would have a good reason to keep buildings repaired! --Ducis DuxSlothTalk 00:31, 18 August 2007 (BST)
- Aye, slowing survivor movement and making them go through the streets would make Ruin a zombie buff instead of only a matter of zombie pride as it is now. Being able to free run in but not out makes Ruined buildings survivor roach motels.--Insomniac By Choice 00:35, 18 August 2007 (BST)
- Muahahahah! YESSS!!! BoboTalkClown 00:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Here's an easy way to balance Ruin by stopping survivors from benefitting: only zombies with Scent Death can see ruined buildings on the map, and even then only while they're zombified. -- Pavluk 01:05, 18 August 2007 (BST)
- So untill you are able to smell dead things, you cant see buildings that are trashed? =Doc Crook 04:27, 18 August 2007 (BST)
- No. Until you possess the Scent Death skill, you can't distinguish Ruined and non-Ruined buildings on the 3*3 map. You'll still know they're Ruined if you actually move to that square. -- Pavluk 10:20, 18 August 2007 (BST)
After thinking about it some, I realized that my initial comparison to books may be better than I thought. Survivors that camp in libraries or schools and do nothing but search and read are probably the least AP efficient of all (even less than trenchies). This makes books, and libraries and schools in general, a boost to zombies that gives an XP reward to survivors. I can see that the jury is still out on who benefits most from ruin. If it turns out that survivors benefit most, a 1 XP reward for ruining really would make it the zombie equivalent of a book.--Steakfish 21:31, 18 August 2007 (BST)
- Don't get me started on survivor XP for reading and tagging! What the hell was Kevan thinking? (Does anyone actually try to gain experience by reading though?) Tell me Steakfish, if you want to compare this to reading... would you vote keep if someone was to suggest survivors get XP for reading? I know my vote would be spam The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 02:33 19 August 2007 (BST)
- I think it's not necessary for an action to be an overall benefit to your particular side (whichever it is) in order to give an XP reward. The less beneficial ones should give less XP (if any), of course. Part of the "experience" you get from reading or tagging is figuring out that it's not worth it. Also, since these actions are fairly risk-free, they're a good way to get those last few XP you need for a new skill, if your character is stuck in a safe, boring area. They can keep your character from stagnating, which makes players (especially new ones) bored. --Steakfish 23:34, 19 August 2007 (BST)
- Nobody will argue that reading books is the best way for survivors to gain XP. Spending all day searching for books and reading them in a powered library is slow going and you may only get a few XP each day. The same can be said for trying to get XP bashing cades for new zombies. A low level zombie will take weeks to level up banging on EHB cades for which they will never knock down all the way. I think the point is to give each side a crappy way to gain XP. You have your books, we have our cade smashing. This suggestion is equivalent to giving XP for reading Poetry books as well as regular books. Would I vote Keep if someone suggested XP for poetry books? Sure, why not?--DonTickles 16:31, 20 August 2007 (BST)
- I think it's not necessary for an action to be an overall benefit to your particular side (whichever it is) in order to give an XP reward. The less beneficial ones should give less XP (if any), of course. Part of the "experience" you get from reading or tagging is figuring out that it's not worth it. Also, since these actions are fairly risk-free, they're a good way to get those last few XP you need for a new skill, if your character is stuck in a safe, boring area. They can keep your character from stagnating, which makes players (especially new ones) bored. --Steakfish 23:34, 19 August 2007 (BST)