Suggestion talk:20071117 Serrated Claws

From Talk:Suggestions

Timestamp:	Trunksoul 00:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Type:	Skill
Scope:	Zombies
Description:	This skill's prerequisite is Rend Flesh and it costs 100 XP. With this skill a zombie's claws become jagged and saw-like, making them more effective against barricades. An RP explanation could say this is due to the claw's repeated use. I propose that this skill would give a +5% accuracy boost against barricades.

Discussion (Serrated Claws)

I can see people voting it down because zombies already have 25% against cades, which is more then survivors do. But, I'm all for it, cades are too powerful. Probably best if it was just a flat 5% though.--Karek^maps?! 00:55, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Well I think heavy and above barricades are more of a problem. Buildings like that are really hard to get into outside of a organized strike, especially if active cading takes place. Also I feel VSB and below buildings are vulnerable enough, and there's way too much over-barricading in the suburbs overall. Low levels have a pretty hard time finding a safe place to crash. I truly feel nerfing barricades this way makes over-barricading less appealing, or at the very least, less rewarding. --Trunksoul 01:06, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

The higher the % the higher the chance of it not passing. A round 30% saves probably 1 AP per barricade level, maybe more as it is now 1/3 instead of 1/4.--Karek^maps?! 01:15, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, limiting it to above VSB negates a large portion of it's use, especially because HB^ is far less efficient, at least for the survivor, then VSB++ and lower.--Karek^maps?! 01:21, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

On second thought, I won't fight against it. I'll change it from +10% vs. VHB and above to +5% across the board.--Trunksoul 01:30, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Survivors rarely ever want to pull down barricades (except if some freak overcarrides an entry point) and building up the barricades is easy as pie (up the a certain level). So a minor boost would not be unbalancing. CharonX 03:31, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

The only problem I have with this is from a "story" perspective: how do you account for the serrated claws if a zombie with this skill gets revived? That, however, is very easily fixed by renaming it and just making it some kind of actual skill or ability, as opposed to a physical feature. --WanYao 07:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

How about adding the following message if you succeed for the 5% probability gained: "You bash ineffectively against the barricade. After a short while the smarter ones relents. Part of the Barricade collapses" ;) Just kidding, but the minutae could be altered I suppose (still we are already straying on the far side of realism in a game where you get killed with a flare and a mix of pistol rounds and shotgun blasts, rise as a zombie and upon injection of a syringe are wholly restored to a living, healthy human being :D) CharonX 12:07, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Barricades are way too powerful! So, I support this suggestion. BoboTalkClown 13:41, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Instead of a whole new skill, why not make a subskill of Tangling Grasp that just allows Tangling Grasp to work on barricades? It makes some sense, gives a nice, small bonus, and doesn't require any complexity that doesn't already exist. --Steakfish 00:06, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Combat skills have their tree, and nothing in the tree(the Vigour Mortis tree) has a sub-skill, this would be something that could be a good idea too put on the level of everything else in that tree because it, like the others, is focused on a seperate aspect of combat. Although if it is a sub-skill of anything I'd think the obvious choice would be Death Grip as that is actually better and both are hand accuracy.--Karek^maps?! 02:42, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

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The Above is moved from Talk:Suggestions--Karek^maps?! 09:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Discussion On Voting

Good suggestion, but a little bit too powerful when used in mass numbers. Some sort of drawback might be necessary. Also, I'm liking this new suggestion talk page setup. Quite convenient.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 16:19, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Thankee.--Karek^maps?! 23:11, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Fools, Multiply it by a Billion applies too cade building, not destruction because only one has the ability too break the game and is already insanely strong as is. This saves 1 AP per level, that is all which still means a single zombie can't get into a building but the Build to Destroy ratio is just a little less extreme(survivors can now fend off 3 zombies at once instead of 4).--Karek^maps?! 23:11, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Also read the links the first voter provides, almost all of his numbers are off, he over exaggerates zombie numbers and under exaggerates building numbers in addition to ignoring the almost perpetual 3-1 survivor zombie ratio that never goes over 1-1.--Karek^maps?! 23:12, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I was assuming his math was flawless.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 23:54, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

The point is he's fear mongering too justify super barricades by claiming changing the status quo is game breaking.--Karek^maps?! 23:56, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it'd be game breaking to implement serrated claws, but debarricading is pretty balanced with barricaded as is. I'd probably go with a slightly smaller percent, although the number wouldn't look as pretty. Meh.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:02, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

How is it balanced too spend over 100 AP to get inside a building and whenever you do you barely have enough ap too infect 3 people?--Karek^maps?! 00:31, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey hey, it isn't that bad. And don't blame the RNG, survivors have trouble with that too.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

When their actions are over 50% no they don't but, it is frequently that bad, many times people will spend 5-20 AP on loosely barricaded buildings, and that's without active survivors. the fact that maxed out they are essentially little better then a survivor with 1 skill doesn't exactly help the case either considering 4:1 ratio on barricades is almost always more then the daily allotment of AP.--Karek^maps?! 00:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

It would probably be a better idea if there was an automatic barricade collapse after X missed tries rather than buffing the %.--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:41, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

That would get spammed faster than this.--Karek^maps?! 00:42, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Really? But would it be subject to abuse? I'm not talking after 5 tries or anything. It'd have to take considerable more failures than what a % chance implies. (25% to barricade implies 1 out of 4 tries will be successful).--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:47, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

5 tries is actually quite a bit considering how many levels there are too barricades.--Karek^maps?! 00:52, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Depending on the level, I think. More tries for a lower level, less tries needed for a higher maybe?--  AHLGTG THE END IS NIGH! 00:53, 18 November 2007 (UTC)