Suggestion talk:20080705 "Dark" Buildings Not Lit on Map
From Talk:Suggestions
dark buildings not shown as powered
| Timestamp: |  Swiers 18:24, 3 July 2008 (BST)
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| Type: | tweak |
| Scope: | armories, banks, cinemas, clubs |
| Description: | Armories, banks, cinemas & clubs are "dark" when unpowered because they are described as having no windows. If light can;t get INOT such buildings, it logically also could not get OUT of such buildings. Hence, unless you are inside the building, you should not be able to tell if it is powered or not, and the block would show on the minimap as being un-powered. Swiers 18:24, 3 July 2008 (BST) |
dark buildings not shown as powered
Mostly just a realism tweak. Probably an annoyance to survivors looking to hide in the dark, but it also would reduce the "zombie magnet" factor a powered dark building has. Since (aside from the armory) they have no useful resources, there is no "free lunch" effect of giving a search boost without letting zombies know the building is powered. Swiers 18:24, 3 July 2008 (BST)
They are described as dark not because they have no windows, it's because they are covered by moss/lichens. And I don't think they are covered enough that virtually no light leaks out to the outside without being seen by passersby.
How about the light can be seen only if you are directly in front of the building? If you are on the next block, it appears as unpowered, but as soon as you move yourself in front of the building it looks like it's a powered building. --Aeon17x 00:05, 4 July 2008 (BST)
- I think that if it covers the light enough that it creates darkness, then it would cover the light enough that a person entering via Free Running would not see the light. Now, from the streets, that's another matter, but as is it's not bad. --Atticus 05:30, 4 July 2008 (BST)
- Seeing the lights from outside in the same block does seem OK. Light in the building interior would leak out to the doors, but if you can't even see if those doors are open (as from neighboring blocks) you'd likely not see the light. The concern I would have, however, is that the light would suddenly "flick on" as you move into that block, which might make people think and active survivor inside had just set a generator up. That might (for example) dissuade a feral zombie from attacking the barricades, as its fairly pointless to do so with active defense.
Swiers 05:37, 4 July 2008 (BST)
- Seeing the lights from outside in the same block does seem OK. Light in the building interior would leak out to the doors, but if you can't even see if those doors are open (as from neighboring blocks) you'd likely not see the light. The concern I would have, however, is that the light would suddenly "flick on" as you move into that block, which might make people think and active survivor inside had just set a generator up. That might (for example) dissuade a feral zombie from attacking the barricades, as its fairly pointless to do so with active defense.
Seems reasonable enough to me... the only one of those that is usefull is the armoury and thats only ever empty when its ransacked so its a pretty moot point really. Very few of those buildings have much in the way of windows for reasons of security and/or blockage of light and sound and no survivor is going to bother wiring up the neon sign outside his favourite nightclub (unless he has a deathwish ;D) --Honestmistake 13:46, 4 July 2008 (BST)
Further Discussion
- Kill - Has some serious drawbacks amplifying negative effects of the last pro-zerg update. -- 14:45, 7 July 2008 (BST)
- Care to explain how that is more the case with this suggestion than others? Pretty much everything in the game can be used by zergers, and so thus can every suggestion. Swiers 17:50, 7 July 2008 (BST)
- Care to explain how that is more the case with this suggestion than others? Pretty much everything in the game can be used by zergers, and so thus can every suggestion.
Of course I'll explain how this helps zergs - Actually I'm killing all suggestions buffing zergers till obvious system flaws are fixed.
I thought quite long about AP balance effect of this suggestion before voting... So - first - quite obvious fact that the last update was mostly a zerger buff. All players can use dark buildings as safehouses. But players who have no problems with zerging gain an obvious advantage - they can create level 1 throwaway scouts to install and refuel generators.
How does this suggestion help zergs - it's not so obvious as previously, but generally: someone running more alts + throwaway scouts can monitor status of all local dark buildings much easier than normal players/player groups. He can still efficiently grief others often relying on random unaware survivors powering buildings. From the second (non-zerger) point of view - noticing unaffiliated survivors installing gennys without a warning is much more important and difficult due to limited AP and server refresh counts.
Both points give zergers a small advantage - it's easier for a zerger to kill, and easier to avoid being killed.
Shortly - all negative effects of this suggestion can be easily nullified with a limited number of level 1 scout characters.
The last (unrelated) point - many will say that fighting zergs is pointless. Unfortunately considering the fact that nobody cares about this problem I see no other possibility (except quitting).--
16:12, 8 July 2008 (BST)
- Excepting for the status monitoring, everything you say above applies equally to the current situation, does it not? That seems to be what your saying, which I suppose is fair; it does (and is intended to) make information about dark buildings slightly more Ap costly to collect, and AP costs do not matter to zergs.
I guess I am one of those who cares very little about zergs. They've never really affected my enjoyment of the game. There's really not THAT much difference in effectiveness between a well organized group that metagames and the typical zerg. I'd even argue the later is more effective, especially in real time combat. Swiers 19:16, 8 July 2008 (BST)
- The main flaw of this suggestion isn't caused by the fact that its effects can be nullified with some additional AP - since it applies to all suggestions. The problem is that its effects can be nullified with cheap AP of level 1 scouts. ...and... that's all about this suggestion - our points of view are totally different. IMHO lack of efficient anti-zerging countermeasures is the only major flaw in UD. However, I'd like to explain my POV later when I get some time (if you don't have anything against I'll continue this discussion on your talk page).-- 22:34, 9 July 2008 (BST)
