Talk:How To Win A Mall Siege

This page just like any other wiki page is open to additions and modifications. Don't hesitate to add tips from your own mall siege experiences. Rheingold 03:57, 12 July 2006 (BST).

It seems very Nicoles-centric, and should most likely be merged (in part) to the Guides:The_Mall_Defence_Manifesto. If you were un-aware of this page before I think it would be best if you attempt to up-date the guide rather than create another repeditive page.
Second, your order of importance is flawed; Dumping bodies is more important than killing, considering the active state of most zombie break-ins. Furthermore with the Ransack change it is very important to clear any active zombies if you are in danger of being cleared and therefore ransacked. Therefore it is most important to dump any zombies before they rise and therefore create another 60 Flak HP for a survivor to have to clear.
Third, it makes alot of assumptions about "how to win" that are determined by the motives and actions of the Zombies; you are therefore giving the entire tactical impetius(sp?) to your enemy and therefore weaken your strategic planning. And unless you have seen an actual Big-Bash assualt, I would ask any friends you may have that held at Giddings or Ackland the few little tricks that are based around countering your simplistic plan.
That is all, Thankyou for reading! --Karlsbad 05:05, 12 July 2006 (BST)

Well, for the moment I'm not going to merge because Nichols defenders are being directed to this page via tinyurl.

The Mall Manifesto makes a number of claims that are no longer true in the current mall siege environment, such as suggesting that inexperienced survivors are "deadwood." Right now the most important element in a mall defence has become population. If one corner has 20 people in it, the mall is simply not going to weather a siege. Adding 30-40 trenchcoaters may not help that corner's defense much but at least it will take the zombies longer to wear down that part of the mall, hopefully allowing reinforcements in the meantime.

Re: the Big Bash's tactics and "winning" a siege, the Guide says pretty much the same thing this page does - "You have to make them want to leave." Sitting down in one place for a protracted siege would be incongruous with TBB's past behavior, so they're not likely to want to do it. If that's what they do, though, we'll be ready for them.

As for my siege experience I participated in the siege of Ackland by TSO & Ackland Abbatoir in May-June and Nichols (by ferals only) in late June.

Thanks for your advice on the page! Rheingold 21:45, 12 July 2006 (BST)

I did not know that you were unaware of the Redirect tool; the wiki allows you to place an automatic page-link to another page. Therefore you don't have to change your tinyurl to bring people that use it to another page.
Secondly, that is the purpose of merging the page; you can update it as you would and see what other survivors have to say. Just because you did not craft the page does not predicate you having to make another one that says a more-up-to-date version of the same thing. Adding this new information as found through the observation of game mechanics is something you as a wiki editor should do anyway before crafting a similar and reduntant page.
Third, predicting and defining your page about the Big Bash makes it highly likely to be made at least retrograde if not woefully incorrect, and not attempting to also ask others who saw and defended the seige (which you should actually be asking the Giddings defenders) how zombies were countering your simplistic advocations makes you seem to be an independant and ignorent voice that can be easily ignored. It has been well-known and discussed how trenchcoats react to zombies in both shoot-first and barricade-first scenereos; not attempting to predict counter-moves is a fault of assuming foolishness in others before considering yourself.
Thankyou, Karlsbad 02:52, 13 July 2006 (BST)

Currently the page is useful for survivors preparing for the Nichols siege. After that siege is over, I will either remove this page or merge useful content into the page you provided. Between now and then, I will vigorously revert any changes you attempt to make to this page that make it less useful to survivors in the game. Please don't even try to engage in wiki drama with me. I am not interested.

If, on the other hand, you think that discussions of some tactics are missing or incompletely discussed on the page, you could be more useful to the wiki by contributing your knowledge instead of badgering me for my omissions. I've already added your insight regarding dumping bodies. If you have more to contribute, don't run it by me - you are free to add it yourself. Rheingold 03:59, 13 July 2006 (BST)

Asking you to merge your "baby" to where it would be appropriate and not needlessly redundent is not making it less useful to survivors; it is actually making it more useful as survivors who do not happen to check the tinyurl spraypaint can check it at the relevent "Guides" section. Again, a redirect will not harm any part of a merged page. What ever you consider of my actions, please remove your claws and look at your page and its current use and observe how it can be improved.
Secondly, you did not truly take into consideration my opinion as-is; it is the opinion of some that dumping should be done before even the attempt of a kill: I would change your "order of operations" entirely and alter it to be Move to the Danger Zone (the actual first step of your strategy that is hidden inside your paragraphs) then Barricade, then Heal, then Dump (with notation for when dumping should be done before healing, if at any time- your opinion) and then the Attempt to Clear. However, when facing a Danger-of-Ransack issue, it is definately a Move-Barricade-Heal-Kill-Dump, maybe, with the notation you provide. It all depends on the size of the horde you are facing. Without putting both opinions noted and formatted in an aethetically(sp?) pleasing and functional enough manner so that it can be read quickly and informatively, it looks like a user-only opinion rather than an All-knowing Savior type. It is moreso you have not only written the article in a manner so as to be ugly, it is also your submission that your opinion should be held above all else, when so obviously you need to write and edit this far more.
Third, if this page is to be used primarily in the defense of Nicoles in case of a Big Bash Assualt (which is actually only a single possibility) then you have choosen your title of this page incorrectly and therefore I could as is my right submit this entire page to "How to Defend Nicoles Mall from the Big Bash" because as-is your article is too narrowly submitted and narrowly considered to actually count as a for-all-to-read guide. Therefore, unless you are actually inviting me to improve and/or completely alter this article as I can as an editor- which I rather choose not to and instead update the Mall Defense Guide and put a redirect in this page- I see no reason to attempt to get you to change a flawed peice that you will most likely attempt to defend as some valient peice of art.
Forth, letting myself divulge any zombie trade secrets myself would be displeasing; and secondly they all would then be outdated because they depend on an ignorent populous. I would rather have you defeat me through Counter-Counter-Intelligence rather than let survivors profit from a foolish editor. --Karlsbad 07:52, 13 July 2006 (BST)

A word about combat reviving

Sometimes, it's not so bad. If you're dealing with a small break-in, go ahead and DNA-scan the first zombie in the group and have a looksie at his profile (this change RULES). In fact, go ahead and DNA-scan every time you're about to start firing, to help pad your contacts list so you know who potential future zombie spies are. If he's a rotter, then you obviously have no choice but to blast him and dump him. If he's level 41, blast and dump. If he has free-running, blast and dump.

But in that sort-of rare instance where an honest-to-God low-level zombie breaks in, say with claw skills maxed, Ankle Grab, Lurching Gait, and no Survivor skills (except maybe Body Building), you've got a combat revive candidate. He can't do any damage to you after he stands up, because he can't get back into the mall. If he finds a lightly-barricaded skyscraper and takes a pavement dive, so what? That's a few more AP that he's spending to get back into zombie condition, and with his lack of survivor skills, he can't really hurt anyone in the building he finds his way into, if he survives long enough to get into one. If feeds himself to the Horde, so much the better. That's zombie AP that isn't going towards ripping the cades down. By combat-reviving the guy, you just made him part of the barricade.

Basically, if you've got a zombie without Free Running and less than 100 XP banked, go ahead and lifestrike him. It's a one-shot, 10-AP guaranteed knockdown with no ill side effects. And it'll cost you one hell of a lot less AP to replace one syringe than it would to replace whatever assload of ammo you would otherwise be dumping into his rotting zombie body.

The change to DNA scanners has made combat reviving a viable strategy again, because now you know exactly what you're dealing with. Interestingly enough, this change, in turn, might make Brain Rot more valuable to low-level zombies than high-level zombies; a level 41 probably doesn't mind being combat revived, as it allows him to rush into the Mall and axe every genny in sight, followed by chopping down whatever low-HP survivors he still has AP to kill, followed by the survivors in the Mall being forced to spend their hard-earned AP tossing him back out again. If a low-level gets combat revived, he just has to wait until someone eats him and then start from scratch again. I might be suggesting a change to Brain Rot some time in the future to deal with this issue... --New Coldness 04:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I have proposed an addendum to the original guide. You may edit or delete if you like, and of course I'd like to debate its merits if you decide to do so. Thanks. Tyler Whitney0 03:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Barricading

Sometimes, I'll log in just as a zombie attack is taking place. One thing I have done during an attack that works well is to wait for the zombies to take the cades down to QSB or less then only barricade to VS+2. I'll do this until I either run out of AP or until the cades stop dropping. Then I'll bring it back up to EHB. I do this because it is much more AP efficient to go from Open to VS+2 then it is to go from HB to EHB. Usually people just barricade anyway in a strong corner, but this is very effective if your defending a weak corner. ZombieCrack 20:56, 19 March 2007 (UTC)