Talk:Suggestions/24th-Nov-2005

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bulletproof vests should be ineffective against knives/bites (AKA hilarious suggestion of the day)

This one was too funny, I just had to copy it here before banninating it. >:) - KingRaptor 05:51, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I was wondering who was editing that post every time I tried to place my response! Man, this suggestion baffled me. I only hope the person posting this did it as a joke... Bentley Foss 06:24, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)


Timestamp: 04:55, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Type: item modification
Scope: flak jacket
Description: Kevlar can NOT stop a knife attack. kevlar vests are made of several layers of tightly woven composite fabrics layered together to prevent a bullet from piercing. Kevlar stops a bullet because the round strikes the woven fabric and can not push through the weeving because of the rounds mass. A knife on the other hand has all its force concentrated on the tip therefore it has little mass. Less mass means less resistance, so it slices through the fabric.

Votes

  • Spam -
  1. Flak jackets ingame don't reduce knife (or bite) damage anyway, I have no idea what you're on to.
  2. "Mass"? You're using grossly incorrect terminology here. Mass is the amount of matter in an onbject. Tell me which has more matter, a bullet or a knife? And no, the fact that the knife's energy is concentrated on one point (as opposed to the pistol bullet's rounded nose) doesn't reduce its mass. A sphere and a flat plate weighing 10kg each have the same mass, regardless of shape. Plus, just what is this about "less mass = better armor penetration"? If anything, you want MORE mass (assuming velocity and shape are the same), because more mass = more kinetic energy (might not be the right term, but work with me here).
  3. I'm not certain if the flak jackets ingame have SAPI or similar inserts, but (assuming they do) if an assault rifle bullet won't pierce the plate, what makes you think your slow moving knife will?
Anyways, based on the first point alone, this suggestion is spam. - KingRaptor 05:33, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
  • Spam - You really don't understand how this system works? Same thing as Raptor. And by the way: A band of kevlar on the arm can stop a bite(seeing as how limbs are what a zombie would go for). --ALIENwolve 05:35, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
  • Spam Sry, screwed up first comment. Anything that does less than 5 dmg is not reduced by a kevlar vest. and also yeah i agree with Raptor. A pebble is smaller than a knife, and for some strange reason, it cant even wrinkle the vest! Btw, you also failed to offer an argument for why biting strangely doesnt work when biting a flak jacket made with kevlar. Try biting a nylon rope. Post back to me if you succeed. AllStarZ 05:43, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)


Of course, that leaves the problem of how to prevent such stupid suggestions from cropping up in the first place. Then again, there's no real need to; it allows us a good laugh for free. Heh. - KingRaptor 05:51, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)


Removed due to duplicated suggestion

This was put on SIX suggestions today! and FOUR suggestions were removed by spam votes. rrrrrrrAAAAAAAAAAAAAA--Spellbinder 04:12, 20 Nov 2005 (GMT)

  • ok, i'm better now, thanks for listening. Also, for who ever removed the suggestions with spam votes, i really hope you moved them to the peer rejection pages before you deleated them off of the main page--Spellbinder 04:13, 20 Nov 2005 (GMT)
    • Er, that might've been me. I'll go fix that straight away. (That's what I get for doing other things while working on this, phantom text hanging about the clipboard...) Plus, I'm moderately new to the whole "edit the wiki" thing. Apologies, Bentley Foss 20:13, 20 Nov 2005 (GMT)
      • All righty, I moved the ones I deleted due to spam votes. Must remember not to switch tasks in the middle of wiki edits... Bentley Foss 20:27, 20 Nov 2005 (GMT)
good for you. don't worry, i've made my share of mistakes in spades. Nice to know that others are being good editors too--Spellbinder 01:14, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)
  • Why is this terrible? Spam votes were created to eliminate duplicate suggestions. If people duplicate suggestions, people vote spam, and it gets removed - no harm done, no reason to stress; this is a wiki. --LouisB3 04:38, 21 Nov 2005 (GMT)
i stressed. [shrugs] more over the stupidity of some and the near counterfiting perfection of others. Its monsteriously clear that posters are not even trying to see if they've allready been suggested. and that just frustrates me. i think it takes away votes from honest suggestions.--Spellbinder 01:14, 22 Nov 2005 (GMT)
There is a *huge* backlog of suggestions - I don't think we can possibly expect every suggester to have read through it all. I think duplicate suggestions should simply be removed with a link to the suggestion they are duping. This is Wiki, we shouldn't be afraid to cut out dead flesh! --Rhebus 15:23, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)


A Suggestion On maintaining Suggestions

It seems to me having a "today's suggestions" page as opposed to having every day's suggestions be born, live and die as a dated page wastes moderator energy and makes it hard to track the full history and discussion for an idea (since the page content gets migrated, while history and suggestion still stay bound to the original page) So I'd like to suggest we scrap the "today's suggestions" stuff, and instead have the suggestion page contain a template for making new suggestion pages for new days. The other advantage I see from time savings is that it would stop promoting things that were just posted today as somehow more deserving of attention - I think the oldest stuff should really be shown first because they are about to run out of voting (like it is on the historical list of suggestion pages) --Thorbrian

Well, I was thinking that since this section has been cleared off, it should be fairly trivial to remember to move the Talk section for each day to the talk page of the destination page when clearing off the suggestions page itself. --RSquared 15:15, 23 Nov 2005 (GMT)


Energy Drink

I'm still not clear about how it should be working. If it's not supposed to break the daily 50 AP threshold and assuming it restores 2 APs, it means that has to be used before you finish your "normal" APs with at least a margin of 3APs (because you have to use 1AP to drink). So why should you need this, since you have at least 2 spare APs anyway? --Seagull Flock

I figure it's in case you're trapped outside a heavily barricaded building and need to find another safehouse, if you need to choose between finishing off the zombie and retreating to your safehouse safely, etc. etc. And I don't get the part about the 3AP marigin (resulting in 2 spare AP). - KingRaptor 14:47, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
I think his point is the same as mine: anything that increases AP beyond the normal recovery rate is the same as if you were over 50 AP to begin with. In the end, what's the difference between if I move 49 spaces, drink the drink, and then move the extra AP, and whether I drink the drink, end up above 50 AP, and then move all 50-some spaces? Therefore, if you're not going over the 50 AP limit, you have to have AP it won't let you use, which means you need to have the spare AP not to use left over. (Does that make sense?)
There was a proposal a while back to allow negative AP balances in rare cases (other than standing up); I seem to recall that it was generating massive negatives. I can't see how that one got shot down (compared to this one) as being AP overuse when there were at least negative consequences to it. (No, I wasn't the submitter.) As is, I believe this suggestion destroys a major component of the game (the fear that you're not going to find a safe house in time), and regardless of what the intentions are, it will be abused by some players. — g026r 14:58, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Can you restate the question in a different way? I really don't understand what you're getting at. As I understand it, the energy drink takes 1 AP to drink and restores 2 or 3 AP. So if you drink it with 1 AP left, you end up with 2 (or 3). I don't see why you'd need to have 3 AP left to drink it.--Rhebus 15:07, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Because this means you're breaking the daily 50 AP limit: 49 + the 2 or 3 bonus APs. --Seagull Flock 15:11, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
I wasn't aware there was a 50 AP per day limit. Currently, I can use my 50 AP at 9am and still use the 6 extra AP I have earned at 12pm, using 56 AP in about 4 hours. Perhaps you're thinking of the 160 server-hit-per-IP-address limit?--Rhebus 15:28, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Correct, but mind that you charged your 56APs in a time window that is BIGGER than one day. --Seagull Flock 15:34, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
I'm having a hard time working out what you are arguing here. Are you saying that it's hard-coded into the game that you shouldn't be able to gain more than 50 AP in a day? Well, yes it is. This suggestion would change that. So what? Or are you saying that one of the design principles of the game is that you shouldn't be able to gain more than 50 AP in a day? If it's that, please say so. Or is it something else?--Rhebus 15:55, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
I apologise if I was mistakingly too criptic. Let's be crystal clear: I don't want anything to alter the current AP restore ratio. IMO it's perfect as it is now. As you say, this suggestion alters it. And the only other way to have this item working without breaking the current game mechanics is to use the drink when you don't need it. Which is nonsense. Hope it's clearer now... --Seagull Flock 16:30, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Well in the long-term it preserves the ratio, since you spend more AP looking for it than you gain drinking it. I accept your point that it changes the per-day ratio, but I don't see that this is terribly sacred. But then I voted Kill anyway for different reasons :) --Rhebus 16:42, 24 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Seagull Flock, here's how it works: Your AP is capped at 50, so if you drink the Energy Drink when you have 49 AP left, you have 50AP (not 51), but if you use it at, say, 46AP, you get 48AP. Yeah, in other words, you can still use more than 50AP in 25 hours. Heh. - KingRaptor 06:07, 25 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Yes, it's now clarified. Thanks. --Seagull Flock 10:28, 25 Nov 2005 (GMT)

When I made the suggestion, I assumed that people would gather the drinks and use all of them or a certain number of them for emergencies. Lets say you spend all your 50 AP searching at a mall, and you find about 6 Energy Drinks. You leave the mall the next day, and a few days later, you have just finished killing a zombie with your fireaxe. You are extremely low on AP, and nearly all the houses around you are too barricaded for you to enter. So lets say u keep searching for a place to stay, and you only have 1 AP left. You take a risk, and so you start drinking the Energy Drinks. They each restore the 1 AP you spent drinking them, and give you a free AP to use to keep moving. You drink up all your energy drinks, and about 4 blocks east of your current position, you find a suitable building. AllStarZ 04:53, 25 Nov 2005 (GMT)

But this is precisely my problem with it. You shouldn't have been so sloppy in the first place. If you end up outside an EH building with 1 AP, that's your own fault.--Rhebus 09:30, 25 Nov 2005 (GMT)
Besides that, a player could keep some drinks and use all of them during a fight, and that's not very fair IMHO. --Seagull Flock 10:30, 25 Nov 2005 (GMT)

I really do't see what is so holy about the 50APs. Sure, it's balancing, it prevents Kevan's poor server from overloading, and it makes sense in game. But it's not holy. So what the guy recovered 1 or 2 APs faster than he should have? If one spends 30 APs to find two mere bottles of this, I really really see no problem. And dude, if you crash your car it might as well be your fault, but that shouldn't prevent seat belts from existing, eh? --Monstah 21:05, 25 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Simple: if it's not broken, don't fix it. 50 APs are perfect. Guarantee fairness even to people who don't have too much time to play and can afford only 30 mins a day. --Seagull Flock 23:33, 1 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Priest

Check out this skill recommendation: Faith. Also check out the comments I made on the discussion page. The combo here would be great. I also thought that a Priest ability could be something like Sermon: Any time a Priest speaks, his words show up in bold font. This represents his trained speaking ability. --Dickie Fux 16:13, 26 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Religion in this is more of an rp thing. I mean this game is not based on god playing with us or ignoring us or hell on earth. This is more like humans playing god and screwing up. Frankly, i don't want to see anything religious that affects gameplay. I dont want like priests showing up in front of my VS barricaded building and saying THE END IS NIGH! Besides, religion and science go together like cereal and water. These are scientifically created zombies and you expect that religion is going to save everyone from them? No... Theres a fine line between the two that you shouldn't cross. AllStarZ 18:25, 26 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Map

Just curious what comments anyone has as to why votes of "SPAM" on the Map item should be allowed to stand. It's not a duplicate, and is not 'silly' in the least. (Dragon Ball Z powers are rediculous. A map from a hotel is not rediculous.) It seems most people are voting "SPAM" because the information is available off-site. I do not think this is a valid SPAM reason under the definition of the vote type. It doesn't say: "For a suggestion that is a Duplicate, Rediculous, or serves the player with information that is available on another website." Not everyone has Firefox, in fact the minority of internet users use Firefox. I know it's a "Viva La Anti-MS Revolution!" type thing to demand everyone use Firefox or shut up, but this is a bit much. -- Amazing 06:46, 7 Dec 2005 (GMT)

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