UDWiki talk:Administration/Sysop Archives/Rorybob/2009-10-29 Promotion

Rahrah

• Against - You don't need extra buttons to do what you do. You don't need extra buttons to improve the wiki. I don't want you to have extra buttons because I have no idea of how you're going to act when you get on A/VB or A/M. This notion that people who implement new systems and templates on the wiki will make good sysops is simply idiotic, they either make a mess of rulings or they just stick their heads in the sand and ignore these pages even when they are required. We already have two drama adverse sysops simply taking up space on the roster, I don't want more that will leave ruling in the hands of a small group. We need sysops that can rule based on understanding this community, its precedents and policies. They can then be taught to move/delete/restore pages far quicker than we can teach you what you need to know about vandalism, misconduct and good faith. Also, messing up a move isn't serious, causing a ruling to go the wrong way because you want to be nice can have much more serious consequences for this community. Additionally this user has previously decided that his own opinions and perceptions are all he needs to go around changing stuff for other groups. I have doubts about his ability to remain impartial. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 19:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

  In my opinion, the majority of those that put themselves up for sysop don't need the tools that come with the post, nor do they have much experience in A/VB or A/M. From looking at the Successful bid history, I can only see Jedaz needed the "buttons". (Although the reference to needing the Move function is very slight, it is the only mention of needing sysop tools I have seen reading through the old bids.)

  I am also slightly confused by the comment "This notion that people who implement new systems and templates on the wiki will make good sysops is simply idiotic", as leadership is one of the criterion for sysophood, something which implementing new systems requires. I also found a quote from Vista(A former Crat.): "...the position of a sysop is that of a glorified janitor." You may well say it's idiotic, but that notion seems to have stayed for at least two years.

  In response to the last statement, I was in the wrong. If I were to find something on the wiki that I disagree with, I would now check around and try to find out about the oddity. I suppose there is no-one I can thank for that trait than you, Iscariot. But I might mention Vista once again, who (in the same speech) said this: "The only place where a small amount of personal judgment is possible is the vandal banning page."

  ---Rahrah^{Come join the #party!}19:22, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

  It isn't about whether you physically need them, it's about whether you would do anything with them. If someone got elected sysop, and just sat on their ass abusing the power as a badge while not taking on the workload, then that wouldn't be good. Now, obviously, you'll do your share, that's why you're here, but your other jobs are quite likely to take priority. Someone who's overhauling the factory pages on a whim is hardly going to have time to visit all the admin pages, watch out for vandalism, and fulfil newbies requests. As with Red hawk, I'll refer you to Mobius187's promotion bid. I'll post a link momentarily.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:46, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

  Your link, good sir. It illustrates the ideal of "Why do you need the buttons" perfectly.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 20:47, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

  I am unsure what you mean by "workload", could you please elabourate? Also, if I were a sysop, I wouldn't have to visit all of the admin pages, as some of them are mostly unused except for special occasions. An example of such pages are A/BP, A/RE, A/U and A/DM. Whilst I was overhauling the factory pages, I was notified of someone editing my talk page. I was able to respond to you within a few minutes. Therefore, I think I could reply to a new editor quickly.

  However, I still have little to reply to why I need buttons. In short, I need the buttons as much as any other sysop. I also admit that with my overhauling of the factory pages, vandalism may go unnoticed, due to the amount of similar edits I performed. --Rahrah^{Come join the #party!}21:09, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

  Oh no, I totally agree, I don't actually follow that belief at all, I was just showing you what Iscariot (may have) meant by it.--Yonnua Koponen ^{Talk ! Contribs} 23:14, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

  There isn't much relation between Mobius and Rory at all. Users like Mobius and Swiers warned us they would have no desire to use sysop functions and as such were just products of the "push them into the position because they are good contributors" mentality. Rory, as above, has demonstrated that he doesn't share those views on sysopship at all. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 00:02, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  When all of the above crap that both of them know belongs on the fucking talk page actually goes there, I believe I'll respond to the candidate. Shockingly I can speak for myself and make my own arguments and don't need people explaining 'what I mean' incorrectly. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 00:14, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  How cute, fingers too sore to do it yourself? --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 00:36, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  Or maybe he didn't want to do it because for the most part it should have been put here from the start? ANd yes, I know I'm a hypocrite in this case. ^^ -- SA 00:38, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  And that changes his right to leave it how? He was the one complaining about it, whether it should be here or not changes nothing of his obligation (or all of ours). --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 00:41, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  It doesn't change anything. Yeah, he was complaining, but he also isn't obligated to respond or do anyhting. What he simply said was that if Rory cared enough to hear more of what Iscariot says, he'd put it on the talk page like it should have been.-- SA 00:48, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  So he said "I have an opinion, which only I want to have heard, but you only get to hear it if you do something for me, else I won't tell you"? Doesn't sound like Iscariot at all. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 00:58, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  I don't think any of us have said that that doesn't sound like him. :/ -- SA 01:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  It was a joke, you numbskull. And he did the right thing anyway by re-transferring the relevant parts of the discussion back onto A/PM anyway, so it's all good. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:28, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  Learn to sign your posts, you can practise over at arbitration to back up your 'word' if you like. Iscariot's major problem was with "I was just showing you what Iscariot (may have) meant by it.", Iscariot will tell the candidate what he means, and he doesn't need help doing it. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 01:34, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  And SA will sit there scratching his head as to why Iscariot decided to go with third person.-- SA 01:36, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  I'm Iscariot? I thought I was DCC? Or is it DDR? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 01:40, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  afdsflk;sad lkj;cafsmjavjlcma. :/ -- SA 01:44, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  You chose this path, my offer is withdrawn like I promised; don't try and antagonise me, it won't work. Not interested. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:37, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  You chose to offer something that you wouldn't confirm. You have the history of saying you'll do things and then not doing them, I wanted confirmation, you daren't do something that would actually make you stick to your word. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 01:40, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  I did more than what should have been required to have your version of justice be revealed, if you are too stubborn to take even that, it's 100% your loss, not mine. Deal with it. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:45, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  All you're doing is confirming that you won't keep your word, that's the long and short of it. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 01:53, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  You really are a troll, aren't you. I kept my word, but you wished to stretch it beyond what you could trust me of, an once it goes there, I'm not interested, hence why I explicitly expressed having you do that would void the deal. No doubt you'll keep up this integrity-filled persona though, right? You really crave the attention I give you, don't you. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 01:58, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  Previous to this situation you had not kept your word, having said you do something you didn't. Wary of the same thing happening again I asked for you to back up your offer with a ruling that you couldn't get out of. You immediately went on the defensive and started to dictate 'conditions' onto the offer. Even when I offered a similar concession if you should have proved me wrong you still wouldn't go through with it. Says all sorts of things about you, not me. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 02:05, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  Again, untrue. The only think I've said I would ever do but didn't is help you with your A/VD, which I couldn't do because I would repeatedly ask in PMs via IRC for you to tell me the problem (want some logs at all?), which you would always refuse to address. Oh, what? The issue again comes back to that? What a surprise. Case closed, I believe. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 02:14, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  IRC logs? Perhaps you'll come across the other thing you'd said you'd do and didn't, the situation that proves that you can't keep your word. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 02:17, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  Perhaps. Either way, this is closed, your A/VD situation is your fault and no one elses, period. Learn to pester someone else. --DANCEDANCEREVOLUTION-- 02:21, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  "The crime isn't the fault of the perpetrator, it is the fault of the victim!". Jesus H. Me, you really do have your morals backwards don't you? Next you're going to tell me that she deserved it due to the way she was dressed.... -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 02:37, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  Maaaaayyyyybbbbeeee.....-- SA 02:39, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

  I'm waiting for the slap-slap-kiss.-- SA 01:59, 3 November 2009 (UTC)