User:Pakopako/Torches

Torches (Pitchforks coming soon!)

Timestamp:	Pakopako 02:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Type:	Item or Weapon Tag
Scope:	Humans and Zombies
Description:	The Torch -- A source of light, a beacon of hope, a banner of safety, and a giant target lighting your backside. Like several several Molotov Cocktail suggestions, this may require an additional item to be made: Either a lighter/lantern (found only at malls and junkyards) or lighter/matches (found only in bars and junkyards). When you use the source of fire as an item with a Pool Cue (and possibly Booze) in your inventory, the pool cue lights up to become a -- ta-dah! -- torch. (Pakopako 06:16, 23 November 2007 (UTC) If possible, other wooden melee weapons, baseball and cricket bats, hockey sticks, tennis racket if you really want to strech it, could be used to make a torch and retain the "breakable" quality.) The torch has only half the accuracy of the pool cue when used as a sharp weapon (zombies cannot weild it), but has the same weight and AP cost. It deals 2 damage points per strike. The torch, when used as a weapon, still has the same chance as the pool cue to shatter. (Pakopako 06:16, 23 November 2007 (UTC) As per the discussion below, people who obtain a torch cannot use any other weapons they are carrying with the possible exceptions of: fists, knives, cutlasses, and pistol) Torchbearers also have the side effect of distracting zombies (zombie bite attacks targeting the weilder -- weilder only -- are reduced by 5%) and light all rooms they a generator. This means the weilder is protected and can provide light-weight... light. (removed for now) Torches never die out, only players. Players who are killed (or self-kill) will immediately drop the torch they are carrying and watch as the flame sputters and smoulders out. (Pakopako 06:16, 23 November 2007 (UTC) As per the discussion below, the idea of 5+ or 10+, size still pending, torch-weilders gathering together on a block or in a building can constitute a mob-effect and all players attacking with torches will get the full accuracy of the flaming pool cue (25%) instead of the normal 12.5%. This still doesn't make the torch superior to firearms or the axe or even the knife. For zombies, torch-bearers can be good news. For the lucky zombie that manages to claw, devour, rip, rend, or otherwise snuff out the torch gets an additional 10 XP. (An angry human waving a torch has been killed. Score one for the horde.)

Discussion (Torches (Pitchforks coming soon!))

Interesting, but too many problems. Make it instead that it can only be used ona BROKEN pool cue. Make the search bonus for the torch weilder only. And make the -5% to hit for the torch wielder also. And the XP bonus doesn't make any sense. Oh and no pitch forks.--Pesatyel 05:43, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Didn't know you could keep a broken pool cue. The -5% only applies to only bite attacks (not claw or survivor attacks) and it is only for the holder of the flame. The lit-room search bonus I expanded for all people in the room as a contrast to the +10 XP bonus zombies would get for targeting the torch-carrier. I thought of only a +5 XP bonus (on top of the damage XP and the +10 kill XP) because the person was a walking generator (which gives +5 XP, I think, when destroyed), but then remembered the human nightlight also had that -5% dodge.Pakopako 06:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if you can keep the broken cue. Just makes more sense to me. And what "-5% to dodge" are you talking about?--Pesatyel 07:55, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

You could always "break" the cue yourself. Technically speaking, I could (and probably should) have included other wooden weapons (like the hockey stick, etc.) to be used as well. The -5% is against bite attacks (which have a natural accuracy of 10% for zombies who don't have Vigor Mortis) due to the presence of the glowing fire stick. Claw swipes won't be affected. Pakopako 06:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I like the idea (in theory) of having torches and pitchforks! Of course, you still need to work out some specifics. For example, don't use the torches for searching (search bonuses are already pretty good as they are). Instead, try and make some kind of a "mob of angry villagers" effect. --Uncle Bill 07:12, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's not much of a search bonus; a torch in the building would work the same as a generator and raise searches to "search with generator active" levels and not beyond. Though I can see how people with torches can marginalize having generators. Even with a 10XP "bounty", people would have to see the person in the room with a torch equipped (there would have to be some way to indicate who had torches and that would be unfair) and then try to kill them. And then the torch would have more HP than a generator. Hm. I'll take out the search bonus for now, but what is a mob of angry villagers effect? Pakopako 03:19, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Uh, good question. Maybe something like if you had a group of survivors outdoors in the same square and some of them had pitchforks and torches they'd be more effective against zombies? Of course, what I described is just a hillbilly form of trenchcoating. But that's what comes to mind when I think of pitchforks and torches. --Uncle Bill 03:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Would be fun to see, but I'm not sure if it would be fun to code. I suppose if more than 5+ or 10+ torch-bearers were on the same block, their accuracy with the torch could double (since Torches begin with only half the accuracy of a Pool Cue, they would just be bumped back up to the Pool Cue, complete with the chance that after enough swings the torch will shatter/blow out) Pakopako 06:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

No search bonuses(prehaps just for you), and add pitchforks!!!! BoboTalkClown 21:31, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Heh. OK, if I managed to send this to the suggestion box, then we can all talk pitchforks. Pakopako 03:19, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

That's the problem these are PERMANENT GENERATORS. Generators need fuel. These don't, not once lit. The only limitation is that the zerge torch bearer has to have free running. That's it. But I see you took out the "generator part" so that's good. I still see it as a possible "personal generator" allowing only the torch bearer the benefit instead of everyone. I'd think a person would have penalties to hit not so much because of the torch light in the eyes (which I think could be a factor) but because of having to hold the torch and use the other weapon at the same time. Especially two handers like the shotgun or fire axe. Also, the torch never goes out? That doesn't make much sense either. What does the person DO with it, realistically when he doesn't need it or has to use both hands for something else?--Pesatyel 07:55, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't want to add ammo because I still wanted the things to go out (break) after repeated uses like the pool cue, so I suggested perhaps using an item (such as booze) as a starter. I did keep the fact that the torch could still break means the torcher who uses it as a weapon has to continually look for more supplies to build more torches.

You do bring up a good point about weapons switching (which, really, considering characters can carry a dozen shotguns around yet can't rifle-whip a zombie, is bending physics a little bit). Maybe a restriction that the torch bearer could only use the torch (and fists) to attack might be added. Combined with the above comment about angry mob effect to raise the accuracy of torches might make it an effective weapon (2 damage and 40% w/Hand to Hand) for beginners in mobs. It would also be a catch-22: you have to make a torch, use the torch, search for more torch items, and keep moving in organized mobs (not necessarily Malton's crime families) to keep momentum. Might be fun to watch though. Pakopako 06:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Make the search bonus come back, but only for the torch bearer. Also, make it require a fuel can. Selfish perma-gennies! UCFSD 14:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, I can't make torches let anyone else search (if that were the case, zerg torchers could be made as nigh-invincible human generators) unless they used fuel as well (at a much faster rate to balance actual generators). That would make selfish perma-genner... not-game-breaking kind of fair.. and might work if I include the weapon restrictions (able to only use the torch and maybe fists, knives, cutlasses, and pistol) which would mean torchers would constantly need to search for more fuel (or torch material) to keep their fires burning. Couple that with the angry mob bonus (where giant mobs of torchers would get attack bonuses with torches... and pitchforks once I get to suggesting it), and you might have a hrrmnn variant of Mall Touring. Pakopako 03:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

You know, it's actually a good idea. This game is technically an RPG, and as such, the undead would be succeptible to fire. Thus, torches would be fairly effective. You should make a blowtorch suggestion, coupling the torch and a spray can together. After all, you put a spray can in a bonfire, eventually the cap will blow off. Either that or the thing flies around. I saw that happen in Mythbusters. I also saw my brother take a small flame from an actual blowtorch and spray some kind of oil into the fire to kill some bees in my sideyard. We decided just to leave them alone, but if you were there, you'd be able to see the charred bee shells. Treviabot92 09:59, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

That would be a fun thing to try out: add a spray can to a torch for a weapon that has a 50% of dealing aggravated damage (3-4?) or it blows up in your face and you get seriously aggravated (both torch and can and a chunk of your HP - 9-12? - are gone). A Lost Boy 20:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

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