Suggestion talk:20070730 Zombie Vision

In the interest of discussion and the fact that I couldn't single out who to reply to, I opted for an edit of the discussion page.

1) Its not anti zombie, its anti bullsh*t. Zombies can't read. They shouldn't be allowed to in-game. End of story. I play a zombie pretty much all the time, and I wouldn't mind this one bit.

2) Humorous? Only because the desire for video game mechanics ruins your ability to play any game in any other way.

3) This wouldn't ruin the game, please... Zombies could still ramble around and kill survivors, follow groans, etc. This would just make it more mindless, you guys are just scared you couldn't function.

4) Zombies shouldn't get definition. This would force them to focus on visible survivors and groans, which should be a zombies only means of navigation. Otherwise we *should* aimlessly mill about and bash on random barricades.

5) This only encourages metagaming for people who already cheat. I wouldn't use 3rd party resources to navigate, but thats because I'm not a cheater, like I'm sure none of you Spam crying kids are anyway. And it doesn't matter, it'd still immerse you in what it should be like to *be* a zombie, even if you have to *puss* out and check a website for help.

6) How about we grow up and instead of taking pot shots with one liners, make a statement, then support it with logical facts and presentation of evidence? Instead of "This would ruin the game FFS" Say "This would ruin the game FFS, because...."

--Niche 08/02/07

1) Who says Zombies can't read? Are there real zombies somewhere that said to you that they couldn't read?

2)Because it's utterly stupid. Like quite a few other Humorous suggestions.

3)It might not break the game or ruin it, but it would sure as hell feth it up a lot. A lot of zombies tend to mass at one target. How would zombies coordinate in game when they don't even know where that NT they were wanting to take out is?

4)Not everyone wants to waste their time bashing the barricades of that empty librabry when they can do something more useful like taking out a PD.

5)Metagaming=Cheating? Then your a cheater too, because this wiki is metagaming. I ask you this, have you ever gone on a trip in real life and used a map to plan your route? Guess what? By your definition, your a cheater again! Why don't you grow up, and quit getting pissed because your suggestion was shot down.

6) He did. He said that this game is meant to be fun and balanced, and that this would break that. While not everyone gave a reason (myself included) the example you used had a reason.

In short, go cry a river. Have a nice day!-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 17:04, 2 August 2007 (BST)

Cause I have to respond to an asshat.

1. Zombies are players, players can read. Zombies aren't real but in many lores, novels, and other crap with them zombies are thinking beings they are reanimated corpses and nothing says that a reanimated corpse can't read. Get out of your cave and look up what zombies are beyond Resident Evil.
2. This suggestion is exactly the type of thing you expect to be suggested in humorous suggestions. Make zombies illiterate sounds pretty damn funny to me, almost like make survivors have gun turrets and missiles. Video Game mechanics are fine, that is when your enemies are NPCs, otherwise it keeps people from playing that side of the game because overpowering one side makes it a waste of everyones time/completely unfun to play the other.
3. Zombies would lose metagaming almost completely, without metagaming zombies are all feral and when that happens survivors can exploit already broken and unbalanced things like barricades even more. Zombies can't coordinate strikes because they don't know where the hell they are but survivors can still easily coordinate defenses. Sounds pretty damn unbalancing to me especially when you consider already only about a third of the game actually plays zombies longer than it takes to be revived and they are meant to be the larger group of players. Scared we couldn't function? Sounds like it's more pissed that we would get screwed on an epic level yet again, you're the same kind of fucktard who though headshot #1 was good for the game.
4. Zombies should get definition, they are players, they need to have fun too. That's like going to CS and saying Terrorists should only get knives and ak47s, it's stupid. Zombies already have less knowledge and foresight than survivors for many reasons, not including that they can't speak or that they have to get skills to be able to not waste 2/5th of their Ap on traveling 10 blocks to a groan. Without some zombies being able to coordinate where they are ferals would be largely screwed on following groans because very few places would stay open for any decent length of time, it would make the game a bunch of zombies aimlessly milling about bashing on random barricades for zombies.
5. Metagaming isn't cheating, what the hell do you think posting on the wiki is? It is the exact same thing people do in metagaming except both sides also provide information, that would otherwise be on the wiki, about where they are attacking and when or where barricades are. Cheating? No, metagaming isn't cheating, it's not using a bot like say Sentinel to man the barricades, it's not breaking any rules of the game, it's not violating a single game principle, and it's not even doing something Kevan doesn't already provide us with the resources to do. What it would be like to be a zombie? Why don't you tell me mister zombah? What the hell makes you the authority on what it's like to be a zombie you probably don't even know where zombies originally come from without searching it up on google or wikipedia. And even then, Urban Dead isn't generic zombies, they are unique. See zombies in Urban Dead have a brain behind them, it's called a player, zombies in Urbandead can learn to speak to one another and have developed a complete language, zombies in Urban Dead are smart enough to be able to ignore their hunger to guide other zombies to food. Zombies in Urban Dead are more than "Video Game" zombies. It could even be said that Zombies in Urban Dead are the good guys, who knows mabey the first zombie made was walking around and some Necrotech employee started shooting at it with a pistol and the zombie attacked back defending itself. Mabey zombies broke out wanting to explore the world and learn what happened to them and survivors started panicking and tried to kill them and the zombies attacked back. It's already a very game like thing for zombies to be in tightly knit groups wandering around with others in herd, in hordes, while survivors wander off by themselves on the hunt. Zombies act like herd animals Survivors act like hunters, the game mechanics and skills do nothing but support those actions and mindesets and all this does is stop the herd animals from knowing where it safe for them.
6. He's right, this would ruin the game, and you should stop taking pot shots at people, just like Kvsofaking should stop taking pot shots at people when he's only looking for the easiest way for him to play the game. This ruins the game, want to know how, well it makes it unfun for zombies, but that's not all it also makes it insanely easy for survivors to gain experience, especially of new zombie players who won't be near a large horde, it makes it many times harder for zombies to find food, it makes it all but impossible for zombie players to assault Malls, it makes barricades, barricade strafing, and barricade bots many times more effective, and it makes zombies have to suffer a massive nerf while survivors are completely unaffected. It's like suggestion survivors can accidentally kill themselves in one shot every time they shoot anything or that when a players dies they are deleted.

Short and sweet is your suggestion is moronic and your response shows you need to spend more time playing the game and less time thinking about how awesome your character is with his mirrored black glasses and black trenchcoat.--Karek^maps?! 19:51, 2 August 2007 (BST)

Wow. Can't we all just get along? :).-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 23:02, 2 August 2007 (BST)

Well, I have to say first off I don't wear black sunglasses and a trenchcoat. Matrix reference FTL. And I've yet to call on anyone in particular with a *shot*. Quite plainly I read the kill/spam votes of "game breaking" "game ruining" and have yet to have more than a handful of them substantiate it. I stated clearly in my original description that zombies shouldn't be able to read building names. I also stated PDs should perhaps appear short and squat and maybe blue. Fire Departments would typically be red brick buildings. I think there's a big misunderstanding of my original intent and someone thought they saw smoke so now everyone is screaming fire. Let me attempt to reiterate here:

- Zombies shouldn't be able to read words. I didn't mean not interpret their environment. Spraypaint should be meaningless, and building names should be illegible. Instead there should be standard descriptions for certain buildings/locations.

And to quote an above post "Short and sweet is your suggestion is moronic and your response..." : Bad Grammar, FTL.

Also, posting on the wiki doesn't make me a cheater. Reading, using the information within to enhance my game playing due to a deficiency on my part to function within the in-game structure is cheating. Let's keep that clear. I read and tried to use the only forum I could find to make a decent, calm, rational suggestion and I get the flames/tard attacks. In retrospect, it was clearly a bad idea to let the community have a shot at anything that didn't involve overcomplicating the game. I sincerely apologize for wasting all your l33t time. --Niche 17:37, 2 August 2007 (BST)

Apology not accepted for using the word leet. ;). It wasn't a waste of time, yuor suggestion was much more thought out than some of the usual crap we receive. It may have failed, but the fact that you provided it without making yourself look like a two year old that just started playing the game is a nice thing. And using information that the game creator provided himself still isn't cheating. Thats the same as looking at the FAQs, and calling those people cheaters. It's using a resource, just like a gun or an infectious bite to do better at the game. It's not like if you started playing Nexus War and used the NW uber map:badge addition to find all the badges without having to search. Before, I said "go cry a river". Now, I'm serious. Oh, and "to make a decent, calm, rational suggestion and I get the flames/tard attacks."...Hmmm, whats wrong here? Oh yeah, you made the first attack by calling all the wiki users cheaters and pussies for using a map. Now, would you kindly piss off?-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 23:58, 2 August 2007 (BST)

Quite frankly, I don't *have* to piss off. It takes two to tango, so if you'd stop responding as if I'm speaking to you in particular there wouldn't be a discussion between us, would there? And saying wiki users are cheating isn't a shot. Its a statement of fact when you pull in external assistance for gain in a game. Debate it all you want -> Cheating!.

Not that a wiki is an end-all be-all anyway. And technically the first shot wasn't mine either, chief. I made the suggestion, and the 29 responses came in before I said another word. Hence, I don't think there's any doubt I didn't start any personal attacks. Sit down before you fall down, amateur. --Niche 19:14, 2 August 2007 (BST)

If zombies couldn't read *anything*, you'd completely change the game. This is a radical change, and you're naive if you genuinely thought people wouldn't react strongly against it. There are plenty of things that could be changed to make the game more realistic (or have verisimilitude), but this is a game that has to be kept fun. Saying "I understand and believe zombies are this way and so this is how they should be" isn't enough justification, as many disagree with that. You need to consider the changes this would force upon the game and attempt to convince everyone that those changes are positive.

Oh, the wikipedia article you linked did nothing to back up your assertion that forums and strategy guides are cheating. Just because the creator of the game hasn't created those things and made them available himself, it doesn't mean using them is cheating. I fear you are operating in an artificial box of your own construction. Although not directly relevent, I refer you to this article. 'arm. 07:18, 3 August 2007 (BST)

EDIT TO INCLUDE: You are referred to one this UD forum. Does that make you a cheating hypocrite? 'arm. 07:36, 3 August 2007 (BST)

What? I clearly didn't use that page did I? Its not my fault if I'm relatively famous in my neck of the woods and people talk about me. I prefer in-game comm with gestures and groans and zombie speak honestly. Niche 11:00 3 August 2007

No, you didn't use that page. That's why I posed it as a question. But that's not all that I said. (Oh, and you sign your posts using 4 tildes (~~~~) - that way your timestamp is BST, just like everyone else's.). 'arm. 17:14, 3 August 2007 (BST)

You know, I really can't believe what I'm reading here. Those who claim zombies are supposed to be able to read, have you even SEEN any zombie movies? Comparing Vodoun Zombies and "fiction" zombies is just asinine (sp). Maybe, MAYBE Voodoo zombies can carry on as in life, but this game isn't about those zombies. The zombies in this game are supposed to be the mindless killers of the movies. The whole purpose of those zombies is to be an analogy for how we, as humanity, carry on meaningless lives, mindlessly performing menial, meaningless tasks, etc, etc. Pick up a copy of Gospel of the Living Dead before you try and pretend you know anything about zombies. For that matter, grab a copy of The Undead and Philosophy: Chicken Soup for the Soulless. Also another great read about what the undead in general represent. They're not action stars. And they're sure as shit not supposed to communicate beyond flails, groans, and grunts. So it isn't a stretch to think they shouldn't be able to read. And as far as metagaming goes, so what? You have to use a little brain power if you get killed. Big deal. If you don't like it, don't get killed. It isn't supposed to be a reward to be a zombie. When did that become the point of the game? --Kvsofaking#0 02:56, 3 August 2007 (BST)

A)This game isn't entirely based of movies and books. Did you see zombies developing an entire language in "Dawn of the Dead"? No. Did you see Zombies becoming human through revivification in "World War Z"? No. Fact is, the game isn't based entirely off stereotypes, but based on what Kevan wants.

Egad, actually in "Land of the Dead" zombies did begin communicating. Niche 11:05 3 August 2007

B)It became a a point in the game as soon as it was made. If it wasn't fun to play a zombie, no one would play them, effectively destroying the game. If you want to go sit around doing nothing all day, go play Nukezone or something. Some of us like having an effective opposition. Not just targets to trenchcoat to death.

C) I quote "If you don't like it, don't get killed."...First of all, you can't stop yourself from being killed. Second, it'd be against a main game concept. " Don't Punish Players for Playing Out of Character". Does that seem familiar to you? Of course not, thats because you haven't been around very long, and you still have your "n00b-wrapping" on.

Oh, and insulting people in your vote isn't a great way to make friends.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 07:36, 3 August 2007 (BST)

You know, you're one to talk. All of you. You get a little bit of anonymity via the web, and the asshats go on. You just can't help yourselves, can you? Your lives are so unfulfilling that you have to belittle others. That's so fricking sad. No, "real" zombies can't be revived, but the basis of zombification is to BE mindless. Their sole function is to find and kill humans. Not to read books and get a Doctorate and go on to be Lawyers and Accountants. Maybe a fair balance, and another suggestion in addition to this one, would be to "reward" people who want to play zombies with more skills at the onset. Scent Death, Death Rattle, and all the "comm" skills they get, could be "free" rather than something they develop. I don't know. The only thing I do know is that: 1) this suggestion would rock because is makes the game more realistic. 2) Internet + Anonymity = assholes You are right, though. In taking my own advice, I edited my vote. No name-calling in votes. --Kvsofaking15:49, 3 August 2007 (BST)

No. This suggestion would suck. This is anti zed. We lost more then 75% of our zeds before because of the crappy anti zed suggestions that were implemented. We want to gain new players. Not lose them. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 17:12, 3 August 2007 (BST)

You want realism? Ok then, please tell me how survivors are staying alive, zombies are the only ones making use of the available food sources and after 2 years it may just be a wee bit on the hard side to find anything else food wise. My realism equivalent to this vote would be if you didn't find food and eat it once every day you would be too hungry and feeble to handle a gun, knife, barricade, or free run and if you didn't live near too many other survivors or get bit by a zombie, or even man a barricade you have a high % of catching a disease and dying thanks too poor hospital service. Better yet, if you get attacked by any survivor weapon you are disable and unable to use weapons, you can't move anywhere, and in about an hour you die from blood loss. --Karek^maps?! 11:26, 4 August 2007 (BST)

Also the fact that headshoted zombies aren't staying dead... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 12:46, 4 August 2007 (BST)

Don't forget the infinite amount of weapons, ammo, FAKs, Portable generators, fuel, useless crucifixes, and the fact that you can carry around 5 porta-gennys and still be able to leap from roof-top to roof top.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 12:55, 4 August 2007 (BST)

And the fact that over 100 people can fit inside a little building... --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 13:00, 4 August 2007 (BST)

Or how people can jump from tall buildings, die, and stand back up good as new! No broken legs or anything!-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 13:02, 4 August 2007 (BST)

What about the part where much of the year, the survivors outnumber the zombies? And zombie infections can be cured using First Aid Kits? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 13:06, 4 August 2007 (BST)

Or how you can miss 32 shots in a row? I don't care if you are two, you can still shoot someone with a pistol at point blank range!-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 13:07, 4 August 2007 (BST)

The same thing goes with close range combat! If you swing an ax, there's no chance you can miss your target! Unless they duck, but from I seem to know from Resident Evil and stuff, zombies don't duck. They just keep walking towards you. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 13:10, 4 August 2007 (BST)

Or how the military keeps dropping us in with a pistol and a bit of ammo. You'd think they'd have develpoed a better weapon by now!-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 13:12, 4 August 2007 (BST)

How about if the military sends in those tanks by now? It would handle those zeds very fast. There won't be any need for waste of ammo and energy. Just start 'er up and drive. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 13:17, 4 August 2007 (BST)

What I really wanna know though, is why they just haven't tac-nuked this entire damn place. Were screwed, and if we get out, everyone else is screwed. best choice would be to nuke the place, right?

In short, Niche and Kvsofaking, we've proved that realism sucks ass. Care to counter that?-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 13:25, 4 August 2007 (BST)

Well...the only good thing in realism only belongs in virtual reality games, and UD, my friends, is no VR. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 13:39, 4 August 2007 (BST)