Suggestion talk:20070815 Headshot Change

Grim s said:

No it bloody well doesnt. It snatches away 5ap instantly, meaning i will STILL have 43 or so ap at the time i play, it just fucks over zombies in a seige when they try to play "barricade" to the survivors shotgun weilding "zombie" when zombies bounce indoors. Survivors find our hopping back up irritating? We zombies find barricades absolutely infuriating, and have to deal with them every day. The bouncing zombie is a rare specimen indeed, and only found in certain rare circumstances. Get over it already and quit trying to passive nerf us.

Lets get one thing straight here, I play, by and large, as a zombie. Now that that is said and done, if you are talking about ?rise zombies during a siege this doesn't effect that at all beyond the time they chose to end it, they still spend the 5 AP everytime they ?rise now so taking the 5 AP before the ?rise doesn't matter beyond the very last 4 AP due to you not being able to ?rise when in negative AP. It does not nerf ?rising in a siege beyond requiring you to have more than 4AP to do it, that is in no way a real or passive nerf. This does however help zombies a lot, as you can regenerate AP fully instead of having a lower AP cap than survivors. Not the best solution to headshot but it is a solution, and I don't know about you but I'm willing to give up the abused ?rise function/bug for that.--Karek^maps?! 11:23, 15 August 2007 (BST)

While it is a crappy reason to spam/kill the suggestion and obviously shows a lack of considering the effect of zombies at large it is something I didn't think of, which means it may have more effects I haven't considered. So I'm removing it until such time as I feel I've considered what there is to consider, which is to say possibly never to return or possibly to return tomorrow.--Karek^maps?! 11:30, 15 August 2007 (BST)

(You edit conflicted me, so this is just a response to your first comment) Vecusum, generally speaking, zombies like to kill with their ap down to 1ap, then watch and bounce once before getting tossed. Sitting there bouncing constantly hasnt been worth the effort since the headshot change to AP. This change fucks up the entire point of bouncing entirely, and turnabout is always fair play. Zombies have a hard time getting in, Humans have a hard time getting us out. You can take my ?rise when you pry it from my colder deader hands. The only way this suggestion "helps" zombies, is if they are willing to wait 27 and a half hours between sessions. Since the vast majority of zombie activity is performed in conjunction with metagame (Also, from necessity due to over a year of game imbalance, and an imbalance which has mysteriously been preserved to let a less skilled side survive (But thats another discussion entirely)), this just isnt viable, and as a result it ends up being a passive nerf to the majority of zombies, and a Nerf that Zombies seriously do not need. --The Grimch ^Mod-U! 11:41, 15 August 2007 (BST)

I've read the entry on ?rise, and at best it looks like the exploitation of a loophole, and at worst it could even be considered a form of if not cheating, then certainly quite dodgy tactics. Why then, is it even being considered in reference to a suggestion?--Seventythree 13:45, 15 August 2007 (BST)

Zombies using guns is a bug/exploit, ?rise really isn't because it triggers only when killed/a corpse.--Karek^maps?! 14:02, 15 August 2007 (BST)

Ok, I get your point there then, however, your suggestion still ahs the same affect as headshot, yet the penalty is added earlier. The only way this could interfere with ?rise tactics is if somehow ?rise tactics themselves negated the effects of headshot. Which, I think you will agree is cheating. --Seventythree 14:43, 15 August 2007 (BST)

Actually no, because if you are going to try to ?rise you need to have 1AP so when you hit the ground you can stand, it needs to be a situation where you would have the button to ?rise available, if 5 AP is removed before instead of after you will need 6 AP to be able to ?rise.--Karek^maps?! 23:22, 15 August 2007 (BST)

So it's one AP people are arguing about to exploit a loophole in the programme? Well, It's hardly a reason to spam it. --Seventythree 00:03, 16 August 2007 (BST)

It's about being able to stand after being headshot, that's the issue. If you have under 4 AP and are headshot you are not able to stand for about 2-3 hours under my suggestion. It's not purely an issue of ?rise, ?rise just shows it the best. That is why I removed it.--Karek^maps?! 10:50, 16 August 2007 (BST)

Also, spamming ?rise eats up IP hits like an American gobbles chips. Its hardly a loophole, its basically saying "I press this button". It makes us stand up just that bit quicker. As its stands, standing up inside a building with our last ap is the zombie equivalant of a barricade, albeit a barricade one can deal with using shotguns. (My, you sure like to edit conflict me Vecusum)--The Grimch ^Mod-U! 10:57, 16 August 2007 (BST)

I conflict because I care.--Karek^maps?! 11:28, 16 August 2007 (BST)

^ It's not a fucking loophole, you could hit the stand button. Its just a little faster. --Wooty 01:44, 16 August 2007 (BST)

It's just like using the address bar to search, it's just that much faster.-- dǝǝɥs oʇ ɯɐds: sʎɐʍ1ɐ! 11:06, 16 August 2007 (BST)

It's not "just a little faster". You can't hit the rise button until you refresh the page and find out you're dead, spamming the ?rise URL totally sidesteps that The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 11:24 16 August 2007 (BST)

Actually Boxy, it doesn't, the way ?rise works is it "technically" refreshes the page, it's like hitting map.cgi being considered a bot or bug abuse, which anyone with half a brain would agree is stupid.--Karek^maps?! 11:28, 16 August 2007 (BST)

However, I should point out that there is 1 function of ?rise that could be considered bug abuse, and it's the only one on the level of bug/cheatness and that is that you can ?rise when out of IP hits, it just happens to be one of the functions that you can do that with, not the only one, but it is one of them. It should also be noted that if you do do that you have no way to know if you are inside or outside, or any other type of game information.--Karek^maps?! 11:30, 16 August 2007 (BST)

Refreshing ?rise is attempting to perform an action that isn't even available on the screen you are viewing so as to get the jump on survivors who have to wait for the page to load before getting the dump option. I don't really mind zombies having this option while they're outnumbered, but it is a game mechanics loophole (like the ?barricade one that got fixed)... of course there are plenty of others... but they're not promoted like this is The preceding signed comment was added by boxy (talk • contribs) at 12:08 16 August 2007 (BST)

Wrong, there is an equivalent dump command with the same benefits. Also ?barricade gave no benefits to zombies, ?rise does give something to survivors.--Karek^maps?! 00:00, 25 August 2007 (BST)