Suggestion talk:20071001 Military, and Scientist Zombies?

So I started thinking

Shit, WanYao's convinced me that zombies need a new way of getting XP, but I'm having trouble thinking of things that are in-genre.

I started looking for some ideas on Wikipedia's article for Romero's zombies. Under the Behavior section, it said something about zombies having a limited capacity to use firearms. So it's obvious where I'm going with this, and it's been suggested to hell before. Maybe a sub-skill under Memories of Life could allow zombies to fire weapons with some accuracy penalty. (The need for a skill would represent a zombies trail and error method of learning) I haven't done any math, and I don't know how effective guns would be in zombie hands, though the article suggests claws, and bites should still be a somewhat better choice (and once every skill's been acquired they could potentially blow any other attack method out of the watter, so obviously this idea needs to be refined) But if the final damage per action point is similar with new gun skills, it could be an in genre, balanced alternative to the two zombie attacks, and a way for scientist zombies to have some over other classes. (They wouldn't need to buy memories of life, since they start with it) Alternatively, a scientist zombie could start with some other new skill, something like "cognitive remnants," or something, which would represent limited motor skills, with better gun handling being a sub-skill. Reading on, it seems movie zombies also have trouble loading weapons. A percentage could be used when loading, or something. Gus, another zombie also used fuel to set a car on fire. Shit loads of smart zombie ideas that are still in-genre. Not exactly what I was looking for when I was looking for an alternative method of acquiring XP but good stuff. Good on paper, but it needs a shit load of work before any of it could be considered as a sugestion. Don't keep this in mind when voting for the current suggestion, this discussion doesn't have too much bearing over it, and the only reason I put it here is because it has something to do with "scientist zombies," It's not an addition to my sugestion, just an offshoot idea. --LumiReaver 15:20, 3 October 2007 (BST)

Actually, your ideas aren't really in-genre. Zombies don't shoot guns... There was one sole zombie in ALL the movies who figured that out... and he was a GOD SUPER-ZOMBIE!! I think he tried to get some other zombie to shoot a gun, and remember how that worked out? No, guns aren't at all in-genre, sorry. And look at the Romero movies... look at all the different kinds of people who've risen... from all different walks of life... including soldiers... and (as far as living humans can tell) all any of them seem interested in is shuffling around looking for live 'uns to eat. Limited and simple tool use exists, like smashing things with bricks etc., and that's about it. See, the whole monolithic single-mindedness of zombies -- all they wanna do is EAT THE LIVING -- it is that very thing that the genre is based on...

Yet adding something like what you're aiming for is a good idea for the game... So what's the solution, how can it be done, without wrecking the game or the genre? My own idea begins with a rearrangement and probably a couple additions of the skill tree in such a way as make de facto character classes depending on how you choose your early skills. This already exists in a way... you can chose to be a killing machine, or more of a social zombie, a team player (i.e. more Memories of Life branch skills). And as a killer, are you going to be a mobile "chaser" or a more stationary "lurker"? If the former, you need Lurching Gait right away; if the latter it can wait, you need to beef your offensive skills ASAP. See, IMO, this is the direction zombie "classes" have to take... build on what's already there a little... not even introduce actual classes, just somehow make the different skill paths a little more distinct. But I dunno how to do this effectively... See, I have thought about this a lot... I want to see something added to the zombie experience... But I just don't know how to do it, either....

I hope people are reading this... because I'd like to see the vets etc. all get together and tackle this... --WanYao 18:27, 3 October 2007 (BST)

I just want to let you know, I really like you. :) The zombie genre portrays zombies as being incapable of higher reasoning. They usually move around looking for food. Even though there's only one example of a zombie shooting a gun, and another using gasoline as a tool, it shouldn't be discounted. With a game like Urban Dead though, you'd have to multiply it by a billion, and as the movies suggest, having a billion smart zombies is extraordinarily unlikely. In order for a whole bunch of zombies to shoot guns, while still fitting the genre, they'd have to do it really terribly. It's easy to simulate that with percentages. But as a game mechanic, there would be no use for zombies with guns, and if that were so, it might as well not be implemented. But for fun, why not let zombies shoot people with terrible accuracy just so that they can? I just checked for efficiency, and there's no reason a zombie should ever shoot well. Zombie attacks are already the most efficient, and the only reason guns should be added to their arsenal is for the flavor. With such terrible accuracy, and the inability to get ammo, no survivor will likely witness a gun toting zombie, making the occurrence of one comparable to the movies.

BUT then there's that other example of zombie brilliance. Setting fire to buildings with fuel acquired as a survivor is an idea I'd like to develop. Maybe fire could act somewhat like barricades do. Maybe if you're in a building set on fire, search rates go down, and every action taken would deal one damage. Perhaps survivors wouldn't be able to get back in once they leave until the fire is put out. Maybe firemen could put the fires out with fire hydrants that are outside the buildings. (of course for game play reasons we can assume all buildings have fire hydrants outside of them) A high AP cost (10?) for zombies to light things on fire because of the potential trouble it could mean for survivors. (Though survivors could potentially wait inside till the fire dies without moving, only losing some search percentage due to parts of the building being difficult to explore) Would fires die after a certain amount of time? A fire extinguisher item, which could double as a blunt weapon with a life-span about as long as a can of spray paint could be introduced. I don't know, I don't like some of what I'm saying, but I'm sure that I might be on to something. Or maybe I just like the idea of zombies lighting things on fire. (Maybe even lighting themselves on fire if they attempt to do it without the skill, I'd love to read that flavor text) Lighting things on fire would give the zombie some XP. I probably phrased this horribly. Also remember that in genre things can be bent to suit a game mechanic. --LumiReaver 19:38, 3 October 2007 (BST)