Suggestion talk:20080714 Hunting Rifles (Survivors) + Swaying (Zombies)

Discussion Hunting Rifles (Survivors) + Swaying (Zombies)

Skills that allow survivors to attack from a block away are disallowed. Besides that, zombies already sway, and the flak jacket should stop more than one point of damage. --Zorinth 22:35, 6 July 2008 (BST)

The flak jacket stops 20% of the damage, and rounded to the nearest whole number, it turned out to be 1HP.--Disc10 22:48, 6 July 2008 (BST)

The touble with 'flak' jacket is: what exactly is it? Bullet resistant protection is not the same as the more common stab protection & a jacket that is effective vs. shrapnel/pellets/small arms is most assuredly not going to stop a rifle round or hi-energy AP round. I assume that for simple clean game rules a single 'flak' jacket has been employed in much the same way the pistol is a speed-loader revolver & the shotgun is a twin barrel, neither or which are really the sort of weapon you would find in a modern city - and certinly not in an army base. Thus our standard 'flak' jacket is able to stand up to a hunting rifle. Personaly I would be inclined to give it the '2' rather than the '1' - mainly as it would also provide a balance for the zombies.--Gerrant 23:05, 6 July 2008 (BST)

A flak jacket or flak vest (or flack jacket)[1] is a form of protective clothing designed to provide protection from shrapnel and other indirect low velocity projectiles. That came from wikipedia. --Disc10 23:26, 6 July 2008 (BST)

Just for infomation, where does it say that 'ranged' attacks are disallowed? or is this a game engine restriction? I agree that Zombies already sway, but then they already do a lot of things that you can buy 'skills' for. Given that the surviour does have a great deal going for them I would not think it unresonable to gain a counter ability, certinly Disc10 should be praised for attempting balance.--Gerrant 22:57, 6 July 2008 (BST)

If by 'ranged' you mean 'shooting through barricades', see here. Also, it's enormously counterproductive for a survivor to shoot a zombie that's out on the street. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 23:17, 6 July 2008 (BST)

No, by 'ranged' I mean one of the surrounding 8 locations around the center point your in. Which if I understand from the suggestion, must be a tall building. As to removing the zombie i the street, why is that counter-productive - I don't understand.--Gerrant 23:28, 6 July 2008 (BST)

Quite, I've got nearly all of my xp as a survivor killing zombies in the street. I don't wait for them to come to me. --Disc10 23:29, 6 July 2008 (BST)

Yes, shooting zombies is a good way to level. It's even quicker to shoot them then FAK them. Anyway, other than XP farming, it does nothing for the greater harman cause. You spend 10-20AP killing a zombie, it spends at most 15AP standing up. If the zombie has Ankle Grab, it becomes even more wastefull. You cannot 'remove' a zombie in the street. You could shoot that zombie every time it stood up, but it would still be able to stand back up. Once a zombie is outside your safehouse, it's not leaving until it wants to. It makes me chuckle to see trenchie groups talk about 'clearing' a suburb of zombies. You can't. The way for survivors to attain 'safety' is to prevent the zombies from getting inside buildings and killing survivors. The only AP-efficient reason to kill a zombie is to remove it from inside a building, or to kill a rotter clogging a revive point. Only the prospect of an easier meal elsewhere will make zombies go away. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 23:51, 6 July 2008 (BST)

Well, yes, but making the zombie move on from an area is better than having the zombie in the area. And if the zombie is making it's way towards you, then hurting it before it got to you is a definate plus. As I've said, a secondary weapon would be recommened, so that if the zombies did get up to you, then you could deal with them. This is especially true in a group of survivors defending a building. I don't see what's so counter productive about that.--Disc10 00:00, 7 July 2008 (BST)

You will not make a zombie move by killing it. You will make it stand up again with full health, none the worse for its experience. If a zombie is making its way toward you, there are two sensible things to do - move or 'cade. Here's an illustration - 10 harmanz are defending a building against 10 zombies. Each day, Team Harman and Team Zombie will have 500 AP to spend.

Scenario 1 - Team Harman spend 200 AP searching for ammo, 10AP moving outside, 260AP attacking the zombies, 20AP yelling various trenchtastic slogans, and 10AP moving back inside. Team Zombie spend 60AP standing up, 50AP bringing down the barricades, and have 390AP left to hug and kiss the harmanz, and redecorate the building.

Scenario 2 - Team Harman spend 100 AP searching for FAKs and needles, 20AP healing the wounded, 60AP reviving fallen comrades, and 320AP barricading their safehouse and the surrounding buildings. Team Zombie now have heavier 'cades to bash, but are also unsure which of the nearby buildings to look for tasty brainz inside. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 00:12, 7 July 2008 (BST)

Wow did you overcomplicate this! This is an uber-gun, which is why they are shunned. Besides the fact the suggestion is mildly confusing. Get straight to the point. "The weapon does the damage with this hit%". Guns are notoriously hard to do in the game. Take what we have. The pistol is medium damage, medium ammo (range not being a factor). The shotgun is high damage low ammo. How many AP does it take to fire? 2? What is the accuracy? 5%+25%+10%+10%+15%-10%-20%? What is that? You forgot where ammo is found and at what search%. And 5 ammo is too high. And what is all that "scope" stuff?--Pesatyel 08:40, 7 July 2008 (BST)

At Bob_Fortune: Those are but two scenarios out many many scenarios. I see the point your trying to make, but it does seem to say "why bother fighting the zombies in the first place?" and I do feel that you might be missing the point I'm trying to make, I'm not saying you have, it just seems that way to me.

What I'm trying to say is that there is a point in fighting zombies, but not under all circumstances. Clearing zombies out of buildings, especially resource buildings, is vitally important to the survivor cause. Even more important is keeping them from getting back in, and bringing your fellow survivors back to life. The most effective weapon survivors have isn't a gun at all - it's a syringe.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I reckon the underlying reason you posted this suggestion was to make killing zombies more fun. If so, that's a good motivation - UD is a game after all, and can only benefit from a higher fun factor. If killing zombies was more fun than killing other survivors, I wouldn't PK so often. I wouldn't be opposed to some new guns and/or skills to play with. I'd only vote for ones that encouraged survivors to play smart though. As I've outlined in my above posts, killing zombies in the street is not efficient play, regardless of how far away you can do it from. If anything, survivors would benefit most from a weapon that works better inside buildings - that's when you want to be able to kill and dump the zombies. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 20:15, 7 July 2008 (BST)

Quite right. I love this game, and I only want to make it more fun for all of us. But I can't see how I could justify this weapon working better inside. I may be able to, but I'd need A) Time, or B) Help. probably both.--Disc10 21:48, 9 July 2008 (BST)

At Pesatyel: You did READ it right? I disagree with the 'uber-gun' statement, as I have said that the gun needs to be cocked every time you want to fire the weapon, so firing is slow, slower than the shotgun I think, though I might be wrong, and ammo is only available in single bullets, like the shotgun (although it's shells if you want to be pedantic), and it does less damage like the shotgun. When firing to the next block, the accuraccy is reduced ,so it's harder to hit an enemy and if you don't have firearms training, you CAN'T hit an enemy a block away. But thanks for remeinding me about the ammo search rates, I completely forgot to add that, so I'll do it now.--Disc10 19:51, 7 July 2008 (BST)

I've added chances to find ammo. Sorry I forgot, that! I thought the chances were fair, but if you think they should be increased, don't hesitate to say so! Also, I found a pic of a hunting rifle for reference:

And just from reference, this is the Range of the rifle if you were in a tall building:

Hope those help clear things up a little. --Disc10 20:16, 7 July 2008 (BST)

I'm taking this to voting now as it's gonna be deleted anyway, and no one else is discussing. I'll save a backup if n=more discussion is deemed to be required.--Disc10 16:14, 14 July 2008 (BST)

Now up for voting. I've put my abuse safety helmet on :)! Seriously if this gets any keep votes I'll give a pound to charity for every keep vote.

You can tell I'm optimistic about this can't you? XD!

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Moved to talk the discussion on the thing that was posted on Talk:Suggestions --The Grimch ^{U! E!} 16:38, 14 July 2008 (BST)