Suggestion:20080714 Hunting Rifles (Survivors) + Swaying (Zombies)

	Spam!
	This suggestion was voted as spam and closed for voting, with 3 keep, 2 kill, and 13 spam votes.

20080714 Hunting Rifles (Survivors) + Swaying (Zombies)

Disc10 16:28, 14 July 2008 (BST)

Suggestion type
Skills and Item

Suggestion scope
Survivors (Hunting Rifle) and Zombies (Swaying)

Suggestion description
Now before you all nail me to the wall and name me a heathen for even thinking this, I just want you all to hear me out. This isn't a high grade heavy duty military class sniper rifle, It's an ordinary civilian hunting rifle. I will go through the stages as if you were looking for the gun and training with it in game.

Attributes of the gun:

• The rifle itself has 15% encumbrance, and the scope has 5% encumbrance, making a total of 20% encumbrance.

• The rifle is a bolt action rifle. It has a capacity of 5 bullets, but each time you want to fire one, you must spend 1 AP to cock the rifle to use fire the next bullet.

• There is a 3% chance to find in sporting goods stores, 1% to find in police station, streets and junkyards, and absolutely no chance of finding one in the forts.

• Ammo searches: 5% chance to find a bullet in sporting good store, 3% chance to find in a police station, 2% chance to find in a pub, and 0% in a fort.

Stage 1: finding the gun (quite a short bit)

• You would find the gun in sporting good stores, not the forts or police stations, or even possibly the gun store, as I suspect it's army surplus. Possible might find them in pubs too.

• Ammo is only available in single bullets. You may load up to 5 bullets at a time in a rifle.

• Scopes cannot be used until you have the scope sub skill (which will be covered later).

Stage 2: Training to use the gun:

• Hunting rifle skills come under Miscellaneous skills, so you don't need to have firearms training to upgrade it, but the % to hit will be much lower!

• Now that you have the gun, you will find that, as with all guns, it only starts off with 5% to hit. We will assume for now that you have basic firearms training, and will work from the fact that you have 30% to hit with a gun

• Now when you get the first skill, Hunting Rifle training, your % to hit is increased to 40% (increased by 10%)

• When you get the second skill, Hunting Rifle Practice, your % to hit is increased to 50% (increased by 10%)

• The final skill is scope (and this is where I expect to get all the abuse, lol). This skill increases the % to hit to 65% (increased by 15%), and allows you to hit targets one block away from any direction, BUT your % to hit is reduced by 10% when you do attack an enemy one block away.

Stage 3: using the gun, and examples of accuracy changes.

• So now that you have all of the skills you will have 65% to hit with the rifle, or 40% without firearms training.

• You will only be able to fire one bullet at a time, so you have to cock the gun every shot. This is to stop people firing lots and lots with the scope. It pays off when the bullets to hit, doing 7hp damage (or 6 damage if the enemy is wearing a flak jacket.)

• % to hit is reduced by 10% when attacking an enemy one block away, so the max is 55%, and the min is 30% to hit.

• Scope cannot be used when attacking an enemy inside and % to hit is reduced by 20%. max is 30% and min is 10%. This will not only encourage people using the rifle to carry a secondary weapon, but will also encourage survivors to protect the person using the rifle to slow oncoming zombies when their stronghold is being attacked.

• Scope can be used to attack zombies outside in the same block from a tall building with no accuracy penalties.

• Scope cannot be used to attack enemies inside other buildings.

• Scope cannot be used on the ground. % to hit is reduced by 15%. max is 50%, min is 25%. This is again to encourage the use of a secondary weapon.

• When the gun is fired, A loud bang is sounded. This acts the same way as a feeding groan or a flare gun: You hear a loud bang coming x blocks to the north/east/south/west and x blocks to the north/east/south/west.

• Other than that all the normal gun rules apply, so no change to AP used, headshots or anything like that.

Okay, that's fine for survivors, but what about zombies? This is gonna make unlife harder for them! I play as a zombie myself, and I have thought about how zombies could counter this new weapon. And I thought of swaying:

• A zombie who buys sway would buy it as a separate skill, for the normal 100xp.

• If a zombie is being attacked one block away by a rifle then the zombies swaying would reduce the % to hit by 20%. The max to hit a swaying zombie is 35% and if you don't have basic firearms training, forget it.

• If a zombie is being attacked by any other firearm, the reduction is to 10%, as they are closer there is more change of hitting them.

• If the zombie with swaying is missed then the zombie receives this message: You hear a bullet fly past you. The person who fired the gun would receive this message: The zombie swayed to one side as you fired, resulting in you missing

Well I think I've covered everything there. The accuracy may need a bit of work, but I feel that the swaying skill will help keep this balanced, along with the % to hit changes on different situations.

---

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep/Little Change - Wow. This is the first sniper suggestion I've seen that isn't an uber god-weapon. Perhaps to balance it out a little more, the sniper would have to 'steady themselves' in an open window for 1 AP, and could only fire in one direction (any of the eigt compass points) as long as they remained steady. --Steve Shepard 16:58, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   Thank you very much. I'll add that next time, as I have a sneaking suspicion that this'll get killed. Can't think why ;)--Disc10 17:02, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   Because it's a good idea, and that's just a bleedin' crime.;) --Steve Shepard 17:20, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   You'd think the wiki being so pro-survivor (even if no one wants to admit it) more of these would get keep--Disc10 17:23, 14 July 2008 (BST) One RE per vote. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:25, 14 July 2008 (BST)

2. Keep/Little Change - I like it as its got a nice flavour to it. We do not need the 'Action Hero' with small armory on back here - but things that you would expect from an overrun city. There WOULD be the hunting crowd, but it is a skill and should be one thats worked for. the ability to nail a target a bit further away is resonable and distinctly in line with the 'Day of the Dead' movie. When they cleared the Mall they did use 'long' ranged shooting. but it must not be over-powered. I also like the way the skill has a matching compensation skill for the other side, this shows balanced thinking and reconition of the games two sides.--Gerrant 17:37, 14 July 2008 (BST)
3. Keep - This would never be put in the game and using it would be pointless, but hey it would be fun to use when you have nothing else to do.--Jamie Cantwel3 ^TalkAll glory to the Hypnotoad! 21:00, 14 July 2008 (BST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill - Less overpowered than most sniper suggestions, but not what the game needs right now. --TriPolarClicky! 17:02, 14 July 2008 (BST)
2. Kill - Nice idea. But killing zombies outside is pointless. -- Cheese 20:55, 14 July 2008 (BST)

Spam/Dupe Votes

1. Spam - Another rifle suggestion with SUPA SNIPER POWERS! Also, dilutes search percentages in a number of locations mentioned. 3% for the ammo in PD's is 3% less of everything else, or 3% on top of everything else = buff to humans, thyat is completely needless. Then i dont know what you were on about regarding the gun store, including or excluding it there, but including it there is a fucking huge mistake. Check out this page for a very thorough explaination fo why adding new weapons to existing locations is fucking stupid: Link --The Grimch ^{U! E!} 16:36, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   "not the forts or police stations, or even possibly the gun store, as I suspect it's army surplus" I thought it plainly said not in gun stores, but I'll make sure to further simplify my writing next time...--Disc10 17:01, 14 July 2008 (BST)

2. Spam - Overpowered. Heathen. Heretic. Hillbilly. I'm just kidding about the last one. ~Ariedartin • Talk • A KS J abt all 16:48, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   I know that the one block away thing would normally be over powered, but I've tried to compensate for that any A) making the accuracy worse one block away, and in other situations, and B) Giving the zombies a counter skill, to give them a chance.--Disc10 17:01, 14 July 2008 (BST)

3. Auto Spam - Suggestion fails its own internal logic. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 17:31, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   explain please? anything in particular?--Disc10 20:06, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   There is a 3% chance to find in sporting goods stores, 1% to find in police station, streets and junkyards, and absolutely no chance of finding one in the forts. and You would find the gun in sporting good stores, not the forts or police stations, or even possibly the gun store, as I suspect it's army surplus. Possible might find them in pubs too. Emphasis mine. Need I go on? -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 20:32, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   Just ignore Iscariot; he's a bit insane. I think what he means, however, is the same as everyone else. --Arcology 02:43, 15 July 2008 (BST)}}

   Fuck off retard. Do you need it spelling out? In one section you say it can be found in police stations and in another section you clearly state it can't. How you cannot see the logical fallacy I don't know. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 07:31, 15 July 2008 (BST)

   Well This'll get hidden too becasuse I'm making a point, but opps! didn't catch that, even after I read it out about 3 times! I'll rectify that next time.--Disc10 08:12, 15 July 2008 (BST)

4. WTFCENTAURS - I really thought you'd got the point, Disc10. After the discussion of this idea on Talk:Suggestions, I hoped you'd realised that being able to shoot zombies from a block away was completely, utterly pointless. A non-starter. As far as useful ways to spend AP go, even this idea would be better than your idea. I'm not going to go through the reasons for this again. As for the people who have voted keep - I would suggest reading this page, this page and this page before making any of your own suggestions - and preferably before you vote on any more as well. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 19:07, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   This isn't just a tactical game where your only goal is to stop zombies in the most efficient way possible. Some people play this as an RPG, which it is! RPG doesn't = elves, trolls, magic and stuff. And anyway, more than once I've either saved someones backside or my own by killing the zombies before they got inside the building anyway, and (this is really important for new players) killing zombies in the street is the quickest way I've found of getting xp. After that then they can focus more on healing and barricading buildings and generally helping out when zombies DO get in. I realize that we're probably never gonna agree on this, and that doesn't matter, because we're only two people in a big wide city.--Disc10 20:06, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   I appreciate that we won't agree on the efficiency part. Even leaving that aside, this suggestion is not balanced as regards entertainment value. It introduces something fun for harmanz, and nothing fun for zombies. --Sir Bob Fortune ^RR 20:14, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   sorry for replying more than once but I have to agree there. But we do get more flavor text, and we like flavor text ^.^ --Disc10 20:18, 14 July 2008 (BST)_{More than one author RE.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  03:48, 15 July 2008 (BST)}

5. AUTO-SPAM because it's a firearm suggestion. Have you even read Frequently Suggested? --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 19:27, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   *sigh* I know firearms are suggested practically everyday, so I'm relying on actually thinking this one through, and trying to balance the game for both sides.--Disc10 20:06, 14 July 2008 (BST)

6. Spam - Several problems with this. For one, the various on-fire / on-miss messages are unnecessary clutter, especially for missed shots against yourself. The game does not already alert you to misses against you (only hits). It also dilutes find rates in PD and Sports Stores, as Grim pointed out above. Also, how do you choose a specific target one block away? Recall that the upper-left map only lists 3-4 names and '...' to show more. The UI changes to fit this in would likely be somewhat ugly, or at least too much effort for a single weapon. This is also my biggest concern, being able to view lists of players from a block away. It would allow scouting adjacent blocks without needing to move into them. --#4 - Haberdash ^TMG 20:25, 14 July 2008 (BST)

   I agree with the targeting thing. It'd be more realistic to have survivor and/or zombie appear when shooting from a block away.--Disc10 20:33, 14 July 2008 (BST)

7. Spam - This got shot down in burning flames on the discussions page already. why would you bring it here when it is a clear violation of the frequently suggested ideas taboo? for shame.-- Techercizer ^(Food) _(TSoE) 23:40, 14 July 2008 (BST)
8. Spam - This sniper suggestion may be less powerful than most others of the type, but it's still a sniper suggestion. As mentioned above, all this does is encourage AP waste and trenchcoatery, which are big enough problems for survivors without throwing gas on the fire.--Jiangyingzi 00:36, 15 July 2008 (BST)
9. KISS --Midianian^{|T|T:S|C:RCS|} 00:51, 15 July 2008 (BST)
10. Gadzooks!!! -- The fact that this is too Dickensian in its lengthy ramblishness for me to read to complettion is enough for it to be spam. --WanYao 01:20, 15 July 2008 (BST)

    Yea that maks you seem reputable dosen't it! Seriously, that's the worst excuse for a spam vote I've ever seen. At least everyone else READ the damned thing.--Disc10 08:05, 15 July 2008 (BST)

11. spam o dear. although less powerfyul than most suggestions its still, as said above, a sniper suggestion...it got ragged in the discussion pages and is on the 'frequently suggested ideas' page. and WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF THIS SKILL? --Irounds 01:37, 15 July 2008 (BST)
12. Spam – Because what this game really needs are MORE grizzled ex-military loner sniper survivors. Oh, and bullet-dodging Matrix zombies. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 02:29, 15 July 2008 (BST)

    Matrix zombies?!? no, they occasionally sway out of the way before you hit them. Moving targets are, well, moving.--Disc10 08:05, 15 July 2008 (BST)

13. Spam - Spam, eggs, spam, and bacon. Spam, spam, spam, bacon and spam. Spam, spam, spam, spam and spam. And as above.  Billy Club Thorton  T!  RR  03:48, 15 July 2008 (BST)