Talk:Suggestions/10th-Jan-2006
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Suggestion discussion
Today's suggestions
Shock
So, early voting shows some think that the Shock suggestion is under-powered. I am very open to hearing how this would be best remedied. (Didn't want it to be Spammed for being over-powered) I am not a numbers-guy and I based my numbers on existing UD mechanics that I can look at, so any assistance is appreciated. Thanks! -- Amazing 06:10, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Hi Amazing, you asked that I respond to your comments here, rather than on the votes, so I shall. Maybe I wasn't clear when I said the 49 AP versus 50 AP thing, but what I was trying to say was that a 1 AP penalty is nothing. This means that users logged out have roughly 2.5% (at the max) chance, *if* they were hit by a blunt weapon, of starting with one less AP for the day when they next log in (which would mean 49 AP instead of 50, since one is wasted, if you let yourself sleep until fully rested). As for active users (and UD isn't about "live" combat anyway), it means they have to click the mouse one more time. Given server lag times and whatnot, one extra click might not even make a difference in overall time (since who knows what lag times your opponent is running into). UD replaces the concept of "time" with AP... real time is only seen when recharging AP and the very rare live combat. As such, suggestions that combine both in some fashion (such as live combat inducing AP penalties) are a bit counter to the methods of the game. Intx13 06:26, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Ahh, I thought you said 49 HP. This is indeed a "Live Combat" suggestion. Just as a "Zombie Skill" would not affect the Human skill tree, I don't know why it matters that a Live Combat change wouldn't affect Offline Combat. Hmm. Clicking the mouse once, however, would not entirely be the case. Theoretically if this were a factor in combat, you would try to do an action and have a CHANCE of being stuck again after you do, unless the action is to run away and you succeed in doing so. -- Amazing 06:31, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Well, if it's only a "live combat" suggestion, I'd vote against it anyway. I feel that in UD, "real" time is just a necessity for limiting AP, not a part of the game. The game revolves around AP and turns, not minutes or days, so I tend to dislike suggestions that change this. But at least we sorted out the confusion :) Intx13 17:28, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Ahh, I thought you said 49 HP. This is indeed a "Live Combat" suggestion. Just as a "Zombie Skill" would not affect the Human skill tree, I don't know why it matters that a Live Combat change wouldn't affect Offline Combat. Hmm. Clicking the mouse once, however, would not entirely be the case. Theoretically if this were a factor in combat, you would try to do an action and have a CHANCE of being stuck again after you do, unless the action is to run away and you succeed in doing so. -- Amazing 06:31, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Hi Amazing, you asked that I respond to your comments here, rather than on the votes, so I shall. Maybe I wasn't clear when I said the 49 AP versus 50 AP thing, but what I was trying to say was that a 1 AP penalty is nothing. This means that users logged out have roughly 2.5% (at the max) chance, *if* they were hit by a blunt weapon, of starting with one less AP for the day when they next log in (which would mean 49 AP instead of 50, since one is wasted, if you let yourself sleep until fully rested). As for active users (and UD isn't about "live" combat anyway), it means they have to click the mouse one more time. Given server lag times and whatnot, one extra click might not even make a difference in overall time (since who knows what lag times your opponent is running into). UD replaces the concept of "time" with AP... real time is only seen when recharging AP and the very rare live combat. As such, suggestions that combine both in some fashion (such as live combat inducing AP penalties) are a bit counter to the methods of the game. Intx13 06:26, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
Moved from page due to being an illegal reply:
- You can't tell if someone's online or not. As a survivor, I'm not going to bother to use this. I prefer my Webleys. AllStarZ 05:45, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT) Removed illegal strikeout --Daxx 08:59, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
And this:
- You can't tell if someone's online or not. As a survivor, I'm not going to bother to use this. I prefer my Webleys. AllStarZ 05:45, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT) Please do not delete AllStarZ's comment, Amazing. That is vandalism. You cannot simply remove another user's comment. --Daxx 02:05, 11 Jan 2006 (GMT)
So there you go. Hope it was worth your time. -- Amazing 21:59, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
Do not remove people's replies. --Daxx 02:07, 11 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Daxx, really.. Knock it off. You know non-authors are not allowed to reply. You're barking orders that are actually against the rules. I was perfectly justified in moving it to the Discussion page. This is the end of the discussion on that. -- Amazing 02:24, 11 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- I should also point out that you, Daxx, completely erased my comment about the deletion without moving it here.. vandal. :) -- Amazing 02:38, 11 Jan 2006 (GMT)
I was going to say that Amazing is being incredibly arrogant because he's stating that he's right, without reading the rules. Then I checked the rules to find that someone had removed the part about being able to reply to a RE. I looked in the history, and suprise! Amazing removed that part of the rules! I will shortly restore his vandalism. People have always been able to reply to REs as everyone knows, and it appears that Amazing has taken such an issue with this he feels it necessary to change the rules without consulting others! --Daxx 13:36, 11 Jan 2006 (GMT)
Edit: On top of this, which is even more ludicrous, is that he reported me for vandalism, when I clarified this fact in the suggestion notes. I kid you not. --Daxx 13:46, 11 Jan 2006 (GMT)
You added that part of the rules YOURSELF on the 8th you dishonest troll. You're such a lying vandal that it's not even THAT hilarious. -- Amazing 19:15, 11 Jan 2006 (GMT)
Behavioral Research
-Discussion before posting-
- First, just to make the suggestion easier to understand, I would put the new item first; I didn't realize what "tracked zombie" meant in the first part until I was more than half way through the whole suggestion.
- Second, I don't think the Sense Pain skill makes much sense. I wouldn't bother giving the zombies a way to remove them. Instead, either give the tracking device a time limit (24 hours seems logical), and/or cause the tracking device to be destroyed whenever an implanted zombie gets DNA scanned, as well as when the implanted zombie destroys a generator, the idea being that the electrical interference disrupts the delicate circuitry.
- I would also make it so that only suburbs with a functioning phone mast can return results, as if NecroTech has incorporated its own hidden technology into the phone system. This would make phone masts more important, and provide a way for zombies to fight back against being tracked; instead of removing the trackers from themselves, they can just take out the generator for the phone mast.
- I really like the idea as a whole. Now that the zombies have gotten some good upgrades, I think the NT's are next in line. This would give them something important to do -- tracking members of the large hordes would be extremely useful, but would require someone with the right skills to actually run into the horde on a regular basis -- but there would be a number of ways for zombies to counteract the advantage, so it would give everyone something to keep them busy. Nice job. --Dickie Fux 00:53, 9 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Thanks for the feedback. I added in phone masts, but as for removing Sense Pain, there is a (game mechanics) reason for it: namely, another XP source for zombies (like an equivalent to FAKs in the sense that helping your own kind grants you XP). The in-context justification is that as a zombie, you can notice when another zombie behaves strangely (because the tracking device is bothering it). --Signal9 01:35, 9 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- I don't know if XP sources are a huge selling point, at least for me. My NT has all survivor skills except Knife Proficiency and Headshot, so I'm looking for something fun to do, not ways to earn XP. I think this suggestions fills that bill, too, though; tracking hordes is something an organized group of high-level NTs could do that would be fun and useful to everybody. --Dickie Fux 15:10, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Thanks for the feedback. I added in phone masts, but as for removing Sense Pain, there is a (game mechanics) reason for it: namely, another XP source for zombies (like an equivalent to FAKs in the sense that helping your own kind grants you XP). The in-context justification is that as a zombie, you can notice when another zombie behaves strangely (because the tracking device is bothering it). --Signal9 01:35, 9 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- what is the need for it, what does it add to gameplay. are questions I'd like to have anwsered in there, it gives the voters an idea what you want to accomplish with it. helps placing it in context. and helps people suggesting and revivening it--Vista 19:10, 9 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- added an explanation. --Signal9 19:50, 9 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- As is, I would vote keep. It makes sence and from what I can tell it would add a nice Reality level to the game, after all, they track animals and even humans so why not Zombies? - --ramby 23:36, 9 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- The harmanz is watching! --TheTeeHeeMonster 23:48, 9 Jan 2006 (GMT)
-Discussion after posting-
- My beef with the 100x100 is not that it's much memory to store, it's that the necrotech guys have access to 10000 tiles worth of information. Maybe if it only showed those in your current suburb, that wouldn't be that much information to process... --Hexedian 20:35, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- I see... As I said, it's 50K of information on the server, that can be converted to static text and take even less bandwidth to display upon request - it's not like every scientist will carry a copy of the whole grid with them. --Signal9 20:55, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Count again. To make a 100x100 grid, you need at least 10 bytes of information for each square, for the formatting. (I suspect it's much more, maybe around 50 bytes, but I don't know much about how the game is programmed) So, for 10000 squares, that's 100k of formatting (Probably much more) to send each time someone has to access the database. By contrast, sending only the current suburb would take about 1k, and would have the advantage of actually being displayable on a regular screen without scrolling. --Hexedian 21:02, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- I don't think that formatting a simple table would take that much memory - but okay, i don't know how exactly this is programmed either. What if you view one suburb at a time, but have buttons to "scroll" and view other suburbs? --Signal9 21:37, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- See, that's what I'm talking about. Extra server hits (and maybe AP) to view the parts of the map that you need would save tons of suburb showings. --Hexedian 21:51, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Why not have it just show what's in your suburb? Like if you're in Dulston, you couldn't go look at the numbers for Stanbury Village or Rhodenbank. --TheTeeHeeMonster 22:32, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- See, that's what I'm talking about. Extra server hits (and maybe AP) to view the parts of the map that you need would save tons of suburb showings. --Hexedian 21:51, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- I don't think that formatting a simple table would take that much memory - but okay, i don't know how exactly this is programmed either. What if you view one suburb at a time, but have buttons to "scroll" and view other suburbs? --Signal9 21:37, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Count again. To make a 100x100 grid, you need at least 10 bytes of information for each square, for the formatting. (I suspect it's much more, maybe around 50 bytes, but I don't know much about how the game is programmed) So, for 10000 squares, that's 100k of formatting (Probably much more) to send each time someone has to access the database. By contrast, sending only the current suburb would take about 1k, and would have the advantage of actually being displayable on a regular screen without scrolling. --Hexedian 21:02, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- I see... As I said, it's 50K of information on the server, that can be converted to static text and take even less bandwidth to display upon request - it's not like every scientist will carry a copy of the whole grid with them. --Signal9 20:55, 10 Jan 2006 (GMT)
- Why not just a list of all suburbs as links -- click on the link, get the number. --Dickie Fux 00:14, 11 Jan 2006 (GMT)
