Talk:Suggestions/18th-Oct-2006

Sniper Rifle

Timestamp:	Funt Solo 20:19, 16 October 2006 (BST)
Type:	New Items, Skill
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	New Item: Sniper Rifle base hit: 5% basic firearms training: 30% marksmanship: 55% (and see below) Firing: cannot be fired at opponent in the same square can only be fired at opponent seen through binoculars on the turn before firing: 1-square away - normal to hit (ie max. 55%) 2-square away - -5% (ie max. 50%) 3-square away - -5% to hit (ie max. 45%) using binoculars whilst carrying a loaded sniper rifle will create drop down boxes in each map square shown in the binocular view, allowing you to select a target. In the case of survivors, you may target a specific person. In the case of zombies, you just fire at "a zombie" as normal (but see the marksmanship skill, below). If there are no targets, then no drop-down box is provided. this means that you can only fire the sniper rifle once with 2AP. 1AP to use the binoculars and 1AP to fire the rifle. damage 10HP (8vs. flak jacket) Autospam will be generated in the square you're shooting at: "you see a flash of sniper fire from a [building], [x] blocks [direction] and [y] blocks [direction]." (Example: "You see a flash of sniper rifle from a building 2 blocks north and 1 block west.") Multiple shots to the same square will only generate a single line of spam by using "...and again". Multiple shots from the same square will alter the text to "you see multiple flashes of sniper from..." New Item: Sniper Clip (5 bullets) Search: both new items to be found in Police Departments and Armourys only, at some suitable search % slightly lower than shotguns and shotgun shells. New Skill: Marksmanship: Gleefully stolen from Marksmanship by MrAushvitz , with no changes to his version at all, only additions (so the two could be combined). prerequisite - basic firearms training. provides +25% hit with a sniper rifle (as shown above). allows you to choose which zombie you target in a stack, to some degree: 1-square away - the first 4 zombies in the stack 2-square away - the first 3 zombies in the stack 3-square away - the first 2 zombies in the stack Dude, I've got issues: X-Ray Vision - provided by the binoculars, not by the sniper rifle. Shooting without putting yourself in danger - it's time to shut down that spurious argument. 99% of the time, players attack without putting themselves in danger - because their opponent is offline. Also, you give away your position when you fire. Further, it costs 2AP per shot. It's overpowered - nuh-uh. Check the numbers. A pistol or shotgun is far more effective. This might let you pick off a low HP target at range - but the chances are slim, Jim. All you're going to do is sting people's egos. It's a ninja centaur! - Nope. That's my next suggestion. So, what's the point? Tactics and gameplay and roleplay - huzzah! If you want to kill someone quick, you'd go right up to them and take them on with pistols and shotguns - no contest. If you want to play sniper, here's your baby. Distract that zombie horde attacking the mall by making your tower block a target - nobody can resist sniper-hunting. Be gentle, oh ye of muchos spammage...

Discussion

I love it, because the mechanics totally make sense. It makes the binocular buildings suddenly relevant for your sniper weapon. Because when it comes down to it, you have to spend 2 AP a pop (forbid the joke.) To attack outside of your building., the high caliber ammunition takes up a decent amount of space. The only changes I propose: #1: The sniper rifle itself should be a heavier weapon min. 2 spaces, but probably 3.. shotgun is 2, so I'd say 3. It's size cuts down on abuse. #2: The damage of this weapon should be somewhere dead center of the pistol and the shotgun.. like 7 points for example. Then it's the go between firearm, I got a lot of votes on the hunting rifle just for that reason.. noone wants anything nastier than the shotgun.. or more ammunition efficient than the pistol.. make a niche' for this weapon and compare it to the other 2. #3: I love the fact that this is not a mall weapon, excellent! They don't sell them in malls, make a note of that when you submit this suggestion it's a SWAT, millitary weapon.. etc. only thing I suggest.. make it slightly available in Mansions. Rich people have the really good firearms, you know scarface? #4: You definately kick ass with bringing marksmanship into the picture attached to this firearm... but I think because it lets you have a choice of what to hit in the stack, and adds to this weapon's effectiveness I propose that you let marksmanship allow the choice of stack targets and adds like +10% to the weapon, then have advanced marksmanship that adds another 15% to the weapon's accuracy.. then you can say this firearm takes a lot more experience to max. out than the pistol or the shotgun, hence it's rarity isn't an issue it's a matter of spending XP. Keep it very very simple, but word it just so.. make your suggestion "idiot-proof" new weaponry makes voters nervous. But as it, this firearm has to stacking selection until you buy the skill so it can't be abused, sweet. gets a keep from me.

BTW congrats on getting both the underworld and your perimeter of malton ideas on peer reviewed, they stand an excellent chance of being implimented, eventually. MrAushvitz 19:15, 18 October 2006 (BST)

1. Kill for the following reasons address them or fix and you get a keep from me.

• Why would I not be able to shoot someone in the same square?
• It's clear you've probably never fired a rifle (I don't mean this to be inflamatory), but the further the distance is the better a rifle is in terms of accuracy. Say 1sq = 1 city block = 100meters. 300meters, is nothing for a sniper rifle. Sniper rifles are made to engage targets from 800 to 1500+ meters. Any rifleman in basic training could hit a 300meter target center mass.
• Instead of binoculars, use a scope. If you need binoculars to see your target odds are when you put them down, you'll no longer have target in sight. Trust me, you can't hold a rifle & binoculars at the same time to shoot. Anybody who's ever fired a gun in RL will tell you that.
• Now, this might get everyone going but...A sniper rifle is essentially a varmint rifle that has been upgraded. A good bolt action rifle can accomplish the same thing. So maybe instead of sniper rifle you could change this to just rifle or bolt action. It should still take 2ap's to work.
• I do like the fact that you can use this in buildings that you can use with binoculars. Otherwise it should operate just like a pistol or shotgun. As to say this rifle isn't as effective? Then why carry it? Personally if this were implemented I would carry one of each. Rifle for long range, shotgun for takedowns, and pistol when out of ammo or running for my life.
• You didn't put this in but I think you should - you should only be able to carry one rifle at time. It's a serious weapon with long range capability. There's no way you should be able to carry more then one. --John Blast 19:59, 18 October 2006 (BST)

Firstly, sorry for moving all your comments - but they were breaking the vote list formatting, and we're supposed to discuss things in length on this page. I will attempt to address your concerns with my next post. --Funt Solo 20:10, 18 October 2006 (BST)

Okay, well - I think most of your concerns can be answered with "this is a game, not a military simulation" - which is why zombies are walking around, and why someone who commits suicide stands up as a zombie, even though they've not contracted the virus, why people think it's a good idea to see survivors attacking the 'cades from within, but nobody wants to notice a zombie attacking the 'cades from outside (spam!) - and all the other purely logical inconsistencies. Anyway, that aside, in turn:

• Can't shoot someone in the same square because getting ready to shoot the sniper rifle is a long process. (I don't care if it is in real life - it's so that the sniper rifle is not judged alongside the pistol/shotgun).
• I have never fired a rifle. That makes me happy. This is a game. Distance reduces accuracy in my game-mind.
• I'm using binoculars simply as a game device. The whole scope business just happens in your mind. That's roleplay. Hurrah for imagination! (I know that you can't hold a rifle and binoculars at the same time and use them both - but remember - this is a game.) You seem to know a lot about this - please don't shoot me!
• I don't care if a sniper rifle is really just a bolt action rifle - stop being so goddam literal! Sniper rifle sounds cool. You know, computer hacking and learning binary are both boring as shite - but people still think that a hacker is some kind of cool thing to be that has great animation effects when you hack into the NASA mainframe.
• It has to be less effective than a pistol or shotgun - otherwise people will spam it purely on the basis that it can be used from inside a building. To be honest - I'm surprised it's got any keeps at all.
• You shouldn't be able to carry 25 shotguns, either. It's a game.

--Funt Solo 20:19, 18 October 2006 (BST)

• • Re First off, thanks for moving it, good deal. It's a game, I hear you loud and clear. I would just like a little more realistic sense to it (even in a game where 401k+ living dead roam a city, with a only a fence to keep them in).

1. Getting a rifle ready to fire, isn't a long process, it's no longer then loading a pistol or shotgun. 2. I'm not sure why not firing a rifle makes you happy. But distance shouldn't be a factor. A limit yes, but not a factor. 3. Sniper rifle does sound cool, I only mentioned that because this idea has been shot down before and I think partially the name has been the issue. Regardless of who's mind it happens in, sniper rifles use scopes. It was just a suggestion. Btw, I understand you meant it as a joke, but the "please don't shoot me" wasn't even remotely humorous. 4. The problem with it being less efective, is that it doesn't make sense. Any one spamming it based on that is just not looking at in semi realistic terms (yes I am well aware that it's a game). 5. Your right you shouldn't be able to carry 25 shotguns. But if you believe that, then what I've said isn't that far of a stretch which means it has merit. In any event, good luck with this.--John Blast 21:55, 20 October 2006 (BST) (fixing the unsigned line, apparently I forgot to sign)

Well this is how I "voted" on the main page: Need Clarification Are you saying you can shoot from "tall buildings" or is it that your standing in the street and use the binoculars to spot a target then switch to the rifle to fire? I understand using the binoculars as a limiter, but it doesn't seem practical (why not just add a scope to the rifle?)--Pesatyel 02:14, 19 October 2006 (BST)

But after reading the discussion, it appears that you CAN shoot (or should I say HAVE TO shoot, to use the binoculars) from inside a building. And THAT is an automatic spam vote. I just think people don't realize that on the voting page.--Pesatyel 03:04, 19 October 2006 (BST)

They do realise it - they're just of the opinion that the checks and balances even it out to make it acceptable. I understand the issue about shooting through 'cades - which is why I went to such lengths to make this a fun option - but not a game-killer. Thou Shalt Not Shoot Through 'Cades is not written in stone - it's just normally presented as a game-breaker. --Funt Solo 12:56, 19 October 2006 (BST)

That's because it is. It takes less work for a survivor to maintain the barricades (or to Free Run away) then it does for a zombie to tear them down. The target may know where you are, but 3 squares AND a barricade can mean the difference between 2/4 AP and 32/34. You may not be able to use the gun once they come into your square, but it would still take only a minimum of 10 AP to kill a zombie 2 squares away. Previous "fire through the barricades" suggestions always met with the reasoning that if you want the kill you have to take the risk. Even with all the penalties, THERE IS NO RISK (other than running out of bullets). I don't see how this is different, in that aspect, then any of the other versions that have been spamminated. Maybe you can explain the difference?--Pesatyel 07:27, 20 October 2006 (BST)

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