Talk:Suggestions/22nd-Jan-2007

Mall Search Rates

Timestamp:	c138 RR - PKer 22:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Type:	Modification
Scope:	Survivors
Description:	The chance of finding things in malls is linked to the number of people in it. Lots of people in a corner of the mall gives slightly lower chances of finding things, and few people in a corner of the mall gives slightly greater chances of finding things. I don't know what the current rate is, but let's pretend a survivor with Bargain Hunting has a 60% chance of finding something when searching a mall. If there are between 100 and 200 people in that corner of the mall, search rates decrease to 55%. If there are over 200 people, rates decrease to 50%. If there are between 50 and 100 people in the mall, search rates stay at 60%. If there are less than 50 people in the mall, search rates increase to 65%. In terms of storyline, this accounts for the fact more people would be looking in the same shops for the same resources as each other, so with more people hunting there would be less chance of you finding something. In practise however, this may encourage people to spread out in malls more evenly, and to avoid clogging up single malls like Cagier. I'm sure this will have been suggested before because it's not exactly a complicated idea, but I don't know how to search for dupes...

Discussion

I doubt this will fly. "Don't nerf survivors!" I agree that malls need to be less game centered.--Pesatyel 04:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

There are some advantages to malls being so good:

• It allows police stations and hospitals to be kept at VS rather than EHB, which helps newbies.
• Despite their high reward, malls are also high risk due to their profile and the large building functionality.
• It's more interesting to have a few notable buildings in Malton rather than every building being equally good.

-Toejam 12:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

One thing to note is that this doesn't change the search odds *that* much. It just tweaks them a tiny little bit, and it would probably only ever be noticed during siege conditions. Then survivours would be encouraged to spread out more evenly through the mall, and a side effect of that would be increased security... It doesn't make malls any less valuable or notable, nor does it threaten to alter the current value of malls as hubs of survivor activity. --c138 ^{RR - PKer} 22:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Your forgetting that, with the mall skills, one doesn't waste time with useless crap like in Police Stations and Hospitals. I don't see malls as any higher risk and any other resource building, except to a significant horde. With a couple hundred people in there SOMEONE is bound to be active at any given time. I agree, to an extent, with the idea that some buildings should be better than others...but not when 95% are useless. Once you get the mall skills the ONLY reason to leave is to visit an NT or to Free Run to a VS building.--Pesatyel 03:23, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don't think this is really so bad. It creates a limit to how strong a mall can be and encourages survivors to spread out a little bit and use the rest of the resource points. Besides, what's the worst that can happen? --Uncle Bill 06:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

You'd feel a bit unwelcome in a mall where your presence was lowering the search odds. This change could cause trouble between survivors, which I'd prefer to avoid, because it would reduce the 'everyone is on the same team' feel of being a survivor. --Toejam 12:54, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

This is no survivor nerf, this is a suggestion that will make malls stronger, encouraging survivors to even out the numbers across the four quadrants of the mall to increase their search/find rate. No more will caigers SE corner have >400 while the SW has <50... whether you see that as a "good thang" or not, depends upon your perspective -- boxy ^{T L ZS Nuts2U DA} 14:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

There's a counter-roleplay argument to this. More people could mean more things to find, because of a thriving black market. Let's face it, the shops were emptied long ago - what survivors are finding must be coming in over the wall - and malls are just the understood location for the concentration of goods. Makes as much sense as your argument. I like that malls are busy - makes it safer for me - as I never stay in them. --Funt Solo 18:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Help! Someone broke the formatting and I don't know how to fix it. o_o --c138 ^{RR - PKer} 22:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Nvm. Thanks, whoever fixed it. :D --c138 ^{RR - PKer} 22:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Who keeps breaking it? D: --c138 ^{RR - PKer} 08:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it happens when the talk page grows to big and has too many template on it. The Mad Axeman 11:11, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Or perhaps not, seeing as it just happened again. The Mad Axeman 12:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it happens in two or three cases. One, if the number of templates (including sig templates) exceeds a certain number, a security feature kicks in and disables all the templates on the page. Two, it may be page length (a mod told me that). Three, I heard that it might be a bug related to editing the entire page instead of just a single section - but that (if it's right) is probably linked to either the page length or the number of templates. The only way I know to fix it is to remove a lot of the page content - either by shipping suggestions off to a Previous Days page or by archiving a chunk of the page. --Funt Solo 01:31, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Interesting to know. The Mad Axeman 14:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

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Suggestion Category

I asked this in Wiki questions but I'll ask agin here just to cover all bases. There is a an underused Suggestions Category, would anyone mind if I cleaned up the exsiting Suggestions Category and then indexed all the suggestion pages that are floating around the wiki. I just want to check to make sure there isn't a reason why this hasn't been done before I start makeing such a change to an area used by so many. Vantar 22:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Can you please be more specific about what you're planning to change? --Funt Solo 23:32, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I will take the existing Category:Suggestions and add several subcategories such as Peer Reviewed Suggestions, Undecided Suggestions, Suggestions Archive etc., then place pages such as this Suggestions/21st-Jul-2006 and PR Skill New: Zombie: Scent Fear Tree in the correct category. The end effect being a more organized suggestion area and a more usable Uncategorized pages list because the major of the pages there stem from the Suggestions. The reason I am making sure no one has a problem with this before I start is that every archived suggestion pages has a large red letter heading tell people not to edit that page in any way shape or form and to complete this project I need to add a line of text to each one of those pages. There is an existing Old Suggestions Subcategory already listed in Category:Suggestions that I would remain unmoved unless someone can suggest a better place for it's content. Vantar 02:29, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, in the case of the Peer Reviewed sub-pages (well, logical sub-pages), I toyed with the route you're suggesting but backed off when I realised how awful the title of each page looked. They're already quite long, so instead of PR Skill New: Zombie: Vigour Mortis Tree, you'd have Peer Reviewed Suggestions: Skill New: Zombie: Vigour Mortis Tree. On an 800px resolution that's over two lines just for the title of the page, and doesn't scan easily. So, I decided to just prefix each of the PR sub-pages with the letters "PR", as you can see.

Now, maybe I was wrong to do it that way. Is anyone here more versed in wiki-lore? Is what Vantar's suggesting a good idea? Or is it going to cause lots of links to break for no discernable benefit?

--Funt Solo 09:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, Funt, he's not going to change any of your archiving system. He's just going to create category pages for each of the different types of successful suggestions, and then just add the appropriate category link (eg [[Category:Peer Reviewed Zombie Skills]]) to the end of the pages that he wants to be listed there. It sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Has some real potential to make the archiving job a lot easier -- boxy ^{T L ZS Nuts2U DA} 11:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Okay - that's what I needed - someone else to put my mind at rest - I'm a bit ignorant of how a lot of the wiki works, tbh. Thanks, boxy. Vantar, I'd listen to boxy there and just ignore my dubious, unfounded concerns. --Funt Solo 11:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok then if thats all the questions I'm going to start categorizing. Vantar 02:45, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I have hit a brick wall of sorts, all the pages in the Peer Rejected Suggestion arcives are locked so if some mod with some time on their hands feels like adding Category:Peer Rejected Suggestions to 14 page it would be greatly appreciated. Vantar 03:37, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks good so far. If you could make a list of the pages you want the peer rejected category on, it would really help the mod that puts his/her hand up Vantar, or if there's a list, link to it. Can I suggest a templated list of all your suggestions categories to go up the top of each category page? It would help interlink them, and make navigation easier -- boxy ^{T L ZS Nuts2U DA} 08:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I've made up a list of the page's for Peer Rejected Suggestions here. The template idea sounds great, something similar to the template they have on the suggestion pages, I'll get right on it. Vantar 20:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

The template is up, I'm starting to see a trend in a lot of older suggestions being locked so a list of pages I can't edit but should be in the category will be placed in the talk page for each subcategory Vantar 21:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Yep, good idea. If none of the mods put their hand up, I'll put a request on a talk page or something. They probably arn't following this discussion -- boxy ^{T L ZS Nuts2U DA} 00:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I added the categories to all the pages listed... Or at least, I hope I did, so if you see any that I did not add a category to, let me know. --Daranz^{.t.mod.W(M)^∞.} 13:10, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Ta, looks good. -- boxy ^{T L ZS Nuts2U DA} 11:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Now, any ideas as to integrate this into the archiving process to make it easier? Funt, Vantar? You guys have been through the suggestions archives, and know how they're organised. Or is it best just to add the category tags to newly created pages and let people navigate their way through if they want? -- boxy ^{T L ZS Nuts2U DA} 11:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Daranz. As for making archiving easier, something could be done with the Previous Suggestion Intro template and the Closed Suggestion Intro template so that the proper categories are added.The problem then is I was planing on using a sortkey for the Previous Days Suggestions Catagory so they would be order chronologically but I'm pretty sure that there is no way to get a template to use a sortkey to set a category. Vantar 22:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok Ive looked into what we need and adding this line to the Closed Suggestion Intro template <includeonly>[[Category:Previous Days Suggestions]]<includeonly> will place all the pages on this list:Category talk:Previous Days Suggestionsin the proper category, as well as put future past suggestions pages in that category. Unfortunately someone will need to do a null edit for all the suggestion pages going to Previous Days Suggestions for it to work. Vantar 00:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't really understand what you mean there, so it's probably better if you get onto Daranz (or another mod) directly -- boxy ^{T L ZS Nuts2U DA} 23:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to say - good work, Vantar and boxy. --Funt Solo 16:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I didn't do anything much, except yack on. Vantar is the category adding machine around here. Funt, just throwing something in the ring here, to be shot down... but what do you think about all the individual peer reviewed suggestions going on a page for themselves? That way it would be possible to categorise them in multiple suggestions categories (like human skills, new locations and new weapons) if they happen to fall under multiple categories -- boxy ^{T L ZS Nuts2U DA} 23:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

You mean 1 page per suggestion? That's a lot of small pages. --Funt Solo 07:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to that magic of templates the list here Category talk:Previous Days Suggestions went from 450+ to 14 and now all future Previous Days Suggestions will be in the right category automatically. Vantar 05:31, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank god for that. They should be all done now. And yeah Funt, 1 per page, but it's been moved up to a discussion of it's own -- boxy ^{T L ZS Nuts2U DA} 10:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

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