Talk:Suggestions/2nd-Dec-2006

From The Urban Dead Wiki
Jump to navigationJump to search

Trains

Timestamp: Labine50 MH|ME|P 00:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Type: Improvement
Scope: People?
Description: Anything in bold is up for debate.

Malton has a lot of train stations. And I mean a LOT. Doesn't it seem odd that there is no trace that there was ever a train in tihs city? Yeah, All of them left before the out-break, but what about the ones that had been broken down and un-able to move? Well, I think they should be able to have some limited form of use. (Assume some mechanic managed to repair it/them) If at any one time, 50% of the stations are powered, 3 train(s) will move through the city. Survivors and Zombies (Incentive to not destroy the generator) can board for 10 AP (Note that you have to be inside) whether the thing is running or not. You can also press "Wait For Train", (10 AP) after doing so, you will board the next train to pass through whether you are active or not. There would also be a "Get Off At Next Station" (You can still only get off at one with power, and no zombies) The train will then move to a random powered station in Malton, where you can get off for another 10 AP. It moves one square every minute, so yeah, you could be on there for a while. If (While on board, in the middle of nowhere, not at a station) the number of powered stations goes below 50%, your stuck. The square you are on will be outlined in red, with a bit of text in the "since your last turn:" area explaining what happened. You can either wait for it to start up again, or jump off for 20HP damage. You can also do this if it's heading across the city and you really don't want to wait that long. The flavor text would tell you where your going.

I can be a bit confusing. Let me give you a few examples.

  • Example A-Billy is planning to get on a train. He boards when one passes by, and starts traveling. Off in Roywood, a zombie breaks into a train station and destroys the generator, brining the total number of powered stations to 49%. Billy decides to stay on, and later arrives in Nixbank safely the next day.
  • Example B-Bobby gets on a train, and like the above, the total number of powered stations drops to 49%. He stays on, and unfortunatly it stays imobile above Tompson Mall for 3 weeks.
  • Example C-Bradly boards a train in Greentown, and arrives safely moments later in Wyke Hills.

Discussion As this actualy changes gameplay in some way, I thought I should post it here first.--Labine50 MH|ME|P 00:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like you are giving players a free action. Sure they have to wait mintues, but, to be fair, AP counts, not time. Free actions are unbalancing to the game. I'll have to state no.--ShadowScope 00:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

That's why I threw in the 10 AP to get on. Plus, the darned thing could take up to ~100 minutes to stop. Your taking a huge risk by getting on, because (As is) should you change your mind and want to get off early, you'll be out 10 AP, several minutes, and lose 20 HP (Which is a lot with or without Body Building.) all at once. Not to mention that you'll be god knows where. There are 249 railway stations in Malton. Your chances of even getting in the suburb you wanted are slim at best.--Labine50 MH|ME|P 03:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I see potential. I like the idea that it takes 1 minute to travel a square (rather than teleportation).

  • I think the requirement of 50% of the stations be powered might be a bit much (125 stations).
  • If the train is stopped, why would it hurt to get off? I could see jumping off a MOVING train hurting. Maybe make it cost 15 AP to get off when the train is stopped, but not at a station.
  • People could potentially be stuck on the train for a LONG time (so to speak if they don't want the HP damage) if there are no power stations nearby. What happens if I happen to get on a train in Darkerstown, but there are no other powered train stations on this half of the map? Would I have to wait until the train gets to the nearest powered station in, say, Roachtown, before I can get off? Instead how about it costs 10 AP to get off at an unpowered station and 5 at a powered one.
  • Would the train go STRAIGHT to the nearest powered station? What happens if another station gets powered on the way that is closer? Would the train automatically head toward the new station or continue on it's original route?
  • What about combat on the train? I kinda see a train as a "mobile building" (not barricadable, of course).

Well, that's all I can think of at the moment. Should be enough for a discussion.--Pesatyel 04:11, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Just thought of something else: What about having it cost 1 AP (say per 2 squares) to move from one station to another? Take Darkerstown as an example. Hardwick Row Railway Station is 10 spaces from Snook Alley Railway Station (and 5 from Imber Road Railway Station). If I get on at Hardwick, it would cost me 5 AP to move to Snook (and 3 to Imber), in addition to the "get on/get off" cost. The idea being it saves you AP for movement but limits you to specific places to and from.--Pesatyel 04:14, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
That's a lot of points! In order-
  • I guess it might be a bit much...
  • I assumed that it was an elevated rail. Maybe I'm worng.
  • Good point! Maybe if the train happens to pass over another station, and the user has "Get Off At Next Station" toggled, they should get off there.
  • The server randomly choses a station, and the train heads straight there unless the number of powered stations drops below min.
  • I guess so, if the train is on a totaly differnt level than the rest of the city, Combat should be allowed. I had a hard time working this out without turning them into death traps. (Destination could be filled with zombies, PKers on train, etc...)
  • And finaly to your last point-I don't get how that saves you AP... Lets the train has some fancy computer thingy that steers it and it was screwed around with post-outbreak, so it just goes to random places.--Labine50 MH|ME|P 04:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Labine50, you spend 10 AP, and then, wait 10 mintues to go 10 spaces for 0 AP...and then, wait another 10 mintues to go another 10 spaces...and, techincally, can wait forever on the train, going to places without spending AP. Saving AP is key in this situation, and free actions are unbalancing. However...Pestayl's idea of having 1 AP=2 squares actually seem fairer than what you propose Labine50 (since it cost AP), and if you add that in, I'll vote Keep, I'll think.--ShadowScope 04:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Re - 10-10 000 minutes later, yeah, you'll be at a station you wanted to be at without spending any AP other than getting on and off. And please, call me Labine. We're all friends here.--Labine50 MH|ME|P 05:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

What's in it for zombies? Any character on board these trains are completly safe from zombies. There's no way for zombies to reach them. --Slice 'N' Dicin' Axe Hack 04:56, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Re - Zombies can board too. How's that? Plus, It's looking like you will be able to attack others. Also, if you all can do a good job of keeping Stations dark, people will be trapped on board, meaning they can either jump, or (possibly) wait for ages.--Labine50 MH|ME|P 05:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
That works.....now if we can only toss a survivor out the train and watch them go splat.... :P --Slice 'N' Dicin' Axe Hack 05:16, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

It sounds pretty good, but the AP thing has me worried. Maybe instead of only spending AP to get on or off, it could work like this:

  • 10 AP to board.
  • Server chooses destination randomly from the 3x3 suburb block.
  • Train goes to that destination instantly (remember, AP is Action Points, not Time Points).
  • Distance is calculated by server.
  • Distance is divided by two, and that number is subtracted from AP (Like Lurching Gait for zeds, this is faster travel, so less AP).
  • 5 AP to leave the train, or stay on for another random trip through the (possibly different) 3x3 block.

That would make it a maximum of a 30 AP trip if you decide to get off at the first stop. Makes it a lot less random, too. --_Vic D'Amato__Dead vs Blue_ 05:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I know they aren't time points, If they were time points, it would take more TP to walk a block or shove a vending machine against a door, than pull a triger. I kinda liked the randomness, But if you guys don't, I'm cool with that. If they are Action Points, what Action are you doing when your standing/sitting in a compartment waiting for it to stop?--Labine50 MH|ME|P 06:14, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I can't imagine it would be as simple as "board and sit." Somebody has to control the train (and given the nature of the game, it would technically be "everybody" on the train). Besides, the AP would be a balancing factor. Theoretically (in your beginning suggestion), a person could travel all the way across the city for only 20 AP.--Pesatyel 07:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
  • The stuff involving zombies needs some work. Simply saying that zombies can get on the train too isn't enough. Part of the reason suggestions like these fail is because they amount to teleportation (traveling from point A to point B 10 blocks away ignores the 1,000 zombies in those blocks and their otherwise ability to attack). But, of course, Free Running does the same. The other problem is that it tends to save the player (survivor) too much AP over walking (but then I think THAT was covered). What about if zombies could jump on the train as it rumbles past?
Again, I was under the impresion that the rails were elevated, but yeah, if nobody has a problem with it, I'm keeping the part about zombies being able to board in there.--Labine50 MH|ME|P 19:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, it would counter the otherwise inability of zombies to affect survivors traveling through the square. Normally, a survivor would have the possibility of an attack while traveling through a square occupied by a zombie. But being inside a car (or whatever) would negate that risk (which is a main reason those ideas fail). As for them being raised, well I don't think anyone has ever bothered considering it before.--Pesatyel 05:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Partly for Labine's argument about what actions you are doing while on the train and partly for my analogy to it being a "mobile building" but WOULD it be possible to "perform actions" on the train? Would you be able to reload? Use FAK? SEARCH?--Pesatyel 07:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Sure, I don't know about searching though. You can't find anything in the Rail Stations...--Labine50 MH|ME|P 19:25, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, no searching since the stations don't have stuff. Would it cost MORE AP to do the other stuff you think? --Pesatyel 05:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://wiki.urbandead.com//index.php?title=Talk:Suggestions/2nd-Dec-2006&oldid=1481902"