UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration/Banana Bear4 vs Legend X

Brigadier General Banana Bear vs. Legend X

Legend X decided it would be a good idea to attach the tag "A Total Homo" to my listing on his group page. I made this request to which he replied with this. Not to be outdone I hit him with this and X came at me once again with this. I realized we were getting nowhere so I tried a new simpler request which was once again rocked hard by the Legend himself when he came back from his ban. Fearing that all talks had broken down I dropped this ultimatum which was promptly treated like all my other attempts at dialogue.

Right now I'm open for arbitrators. I'll let X take the first crack at arbitrators, or people can start stepping up. I hope that this can be worked out as smoothly and amicably as my previous arbitration with the good Dr. X. Thank you in advance. - Denzel Washington? No. Banana Bear. Yes. 06:12, 5 July 2006 (BST)

I'm willing to arbitrate. –Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 06:20, 5 July 2006 (BST)

As am I--^talk 07:28, 5 July 2006 (BST)

Count me in if you'll have me. Cyberbob  Talk  07:34, 5 July 2006 (BST)

Like I said above, I'm open to all you lot. BH is level headed, Gage has that neat sig thing, Cyberbob died to bring us this information, good. Whoever. You all work for me. I wanted to see if maybe Legend has preference?-Banana Bear 20:45, 5 July 2006 (BST)

I'll also do it. Sonny Corleone ^WTF 20:47, 5 July 2006 (BST)

• You can ALL arbitrate as far as I'm concerned. Just drop me a line when the decision is rendered. The BME's enemy list is put up under OUR point of view. Banana Bear is lucky we didn't put up "a total and complete asshole with no redeeming qualities whatsoever." We didn't because we didn't want to use foul language. We would like to keep it up, because his in game language is quite homosexual and we are claiming his character is a homo, but if we are made to take it down we will oblige. I will close in saying that Banana Bear and his in game persona MTek are the biggest assholes I've ever encoutnered in ANY online platform gaming that I've done and he is a total prick. The guy/girl just goes out of his/her way to insult and annoy. Also, I have NO wiki obligation to leave any of his obnoxious posts on my own personal wiki page. Everytime he posts there he will be deleted. - Legend X 02:31, 6 July 2006 (BST)

• • I too am game for any arbitrator, if you need me to pick, I will. As a retort to whether or not a user can be attacked on a group page, I think that this was the issue when ASS had to change their template to say "Current ASSault" and not "ASSault on Amazing" although there are probably other reads of this that could be made. I believe that its better form to archive, not just delete comments, but I don't think that is a rule. I don't hate Legend X. I like playing UrbanDead with him. I'm sorry you hate me. :…( -Banana Bear 19:38, 6 July 2006 (BST)

• • • Oh gosh. You like me now? LOL. Your sincerity is sooooo genuine. Get a life dude and stop bugging us. Also, every deleted comment is archived by default in the History tab. - Legend X 02:45, 6 July 2006 (BST)
      • History tab's are periodically purged, so archiving there doesn't work permanently, and how many times have I referred to you in friendly terms? A bunch! I really do like playing UrbanDead with you. My alt has had serious discussion in Game with LoganX. I'm sorry you doubt me.-Banana Bear 20:08, 6 July 2006 (BST)
        • Guys, please don't argue here, and one of you please pick an arbitrator since you both are apparently fine with anyone. –Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 20:11, 6 July 2006 (BST)

I choose you Xoid Bob Hammmero! Especially if you say "I'll take the case" with a dramatic gesture, your right, this isn't the place to bicker like bickerbickerers, struck out. -Banana Bear 20:17, 6 July 2006 (BST)

Bob - you are fine. - Legend X 03:19, 6 July 2006 (BST)

Arbitration

I'll take the case! Insert dramatic gesture here. (Even though It's Hammero, not Hammmero.) Now, down to business:

Banana Bear, Legend X, each of you is responsible for submitting all of your evidence, whatever it may be, under the appropriate header below (yes, even though there are links above, include them again if that's part of your case). Do not respond to each other's evidence; I will review the evidence and provide one opportunity for a counter from the opposing side, at which point I will review the countering arguments and rule. –Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 20:23, 6 July 2006 (BST)

Evidence from Banana Bear

Legend X calls me "A Total Homo"

And refuses dialogue once, twice, three times, a lady.

Solid proof that M Tek is all man.

I think this case sort of relates to the old Wikigate proceeding Bob and I had the privilege of being involved in.

I think that sums up my case complete with that little musical number. Haha beat that guys!

Evidence from Legend X

MTek (one of many of Banana Bear's in game players) is a known PKer. He zergs (in our opinion) and uses alts to revive himself and keep on killing. He annoys everyone around him (in game) and says stuff like "You look so beautiful when you are mad." and "Hello sexy." (among many other flaming comments). Due to his constant (6+months) of PKing inside Bale Mall and his endless vandalizing if BME's wiki (which he has been warned for - and I beleived even banned for) we though we would add "A total homo." next to his name on our enemy list. Our enemy list is a confirmed list of players who have PKed inside Bale Mall and the list is written from the point of view BME members. I don't see "A total homo" being any different from "jackass" "Pker" "barricade destroyer" "rude jerk" "immature child", etc. I think if BME members feel that way about him, especially due to his queer in game sayings like "You look wonderful tonight.", then we should be able tosay whatever we want. That's my opinion but I will delete it if I want. My fear is that he will just go to arbitration with everything we ever wrote about anyone at anytime and that is NOT what this is about. This is about Banana Bear being a typical jackass. He doesn't care if it says "a total homo" because he perpetrates that personna in game. This is just a monumental waste of time.

- Legend X 03:38, 6 July 2006 (EST)

I have reviewed the evidence from both sides. If either of you wish to counter the other's evidence, you may do so below. If you are content with your argument as it stands, just say so. –Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 20:43, 6 July 2006 (BST)

Counter from Banana Bear

The issue I find with the "Total Homo" tag you added, is that it appears to be there solely to insult me, and it doesn't even do a good job of that. Calling my character "One of the friends of Tim Drake, this annoying idiot continues to kill in the mall and act like a twelve year old in his ranting and PKing obnoxiousness." seems to sum up your groups view of my character. Previously, M Tek had been listed as your most honorable enemy.

Also, the tag "A total homo" was added after I was involved in a discussion on the BME talk page and not after I said any allegedly "gay sounding" thing in game. I in fact, played as I had for quite a long time. The fact that it was changed after a wiki related incident, rather than a game related incident makes it clear that it is meant to say that I am a total homo, not my character.

If some thought were put into the insult, I would be much happier about it. For examples of friendly ribbing one need look no further than other great disputes on this wiki. Sorry no song now, Bob you rushed me! Angry now!-Banana Bear 20:54, 6 July 2006 (BST)

addendum If one compares the description of my character M Tek, and myself, as provided by Legend X, one will find that there is little if any difference between the two, this reinforces the theory that calling M Tek a total Homo is meant to imply I am a total homo. Similarly, I have even been referred to as the characters name, M Tek, rather than my username, Banana Bear, by Mr. X.

Counter from Legend X

He is like the little boy who cried wolf. After months of abuse from him I've asked him to stop posting on my wiki user page. When he brings up a good point, rarely, I answer him in remarks as I delete his crap. I just simply don't have time for him. He haunts the BME page just being malicious. My bottom line through all of this is that this is not some horrible slander. This isn't in the NPOV section. This is a description of how his character acts in game and it is valid. He has been proved to be a PKer and has been added to our list with a description of what he is like. If I lose arbitration, I will just take out "A total homo" and insert "A total jackass" or "A total jerk" and he is SO immature that I'm sure we'll be right back here in arbitration. This is so stupid.

We even listed him as "Our most honorable enemy" as this is what he requested and in doing what he asked we hoped he would stop bothering us. When he didn't we changed it. He NEVER was our most honorable enemy. He tore down baricades, killed people in their sleep, used zerging alts, etc. There is nothing honorable about that. Why didn't he take me to arbitration over calling him "honorable". This is just so ridiculous.

MTek is listed as "a total homo", not Banana Bear. Now he's just making stuff up. - Legend X 03:57, 6 July 2006 (EST)

addendum I don't beleive calling MTek a total homo is any different than calling MTek an honorable enemy - except Banana Bear doesn't want his player referred to as a total homo. I'm sure if Banana Bear asked me to refer to MTek as a total homo we wouldn't even be here. And you Banana Bear ARE a fag in my eyes because you waste everyone's time and energy to bow toyour wishes. This is a damn game. I could care less what anyone calls me on their own page. - Legend X 04:05, 6 July 2006 (EST)

- you have 5 minutes to rule. i have to leave until tomorrow afternoon

The Ruling

First, Legend X, you will not direct me as to how I will run this case.

After reviewing the evidence, I have come to the conclusion that this is a case of an in-game conflict that has spilled over into the wiki.

Group pages are not user pages, and are not subject to the same protections that those pages are currently afforded. While Legend X, so long as he does not violate any laws or wiki policies, is free to insult Banana Bear and his characters on his user page, he is not free to do so to the extent that he has on the Bale Mall Elite group page.

Although Banana Bear's intentions were not necessarily immediately clear in his first requests, in subsequent requests it was plainly obvious that he wanted the offensive material taken down, and went to reasonable lengths to request that.

Whether or not M Tek is a player killer or a zerger -- both unproven claims -- is irrelevant. Furthermore, Vandal Data does not show any warnings or bans placed on Banana Bear, so the claim that he has been warned and banned for vandalization is unsubstantiated and irrelevant.

The difference between calling someone a "rude jerk" or a "barricade destroyer" and calling them "a total homo," is that one addresses actions or character traits that could be argued to be negative in and of themselves, while the other addresses a sexual orientation as though it is necessarily negative. Whether or not Banana Bear is actually gay, I do not particularly care about, and it is completely irrelevant either way. What is relevant is the inappropriate and bad-faith use of that assertion as an insult on a non-user page. Despite the bad taste, that assertion would likely be acceptable on a user page, but it is unacceptable on a group page.

Whether or not M Tek acts gay in the game is irrelevant. This is not the game, this is the wiki for the game. Legend X, you claim that you asked Banana Bear to stop posting on your wiki page, but you have provided no evidence for this assertion, so I cannot accept that as evidence.

Any and all comments relating to M Tek's alleged homosexuality shall be removed from the BME page, and no further comments along those lines may be placed there in the future.

In light of his other comments, for calling Banana Bear "a fag" on this page, Legend X will receive a one week ban, since he has already received two warnings, a 24 hour ban, and a 48 hour ban, according to Vandal Data¹. I will notify a moderator so that they can implement this. Redacted: In light of previous arbitration cases, I have decided to redact this punishment before it is implemented. –Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 22:02, 6 July 2006 (BST)

Edited: Neither of you shall speak directly to or about each other on the wiki for the following two weeks, starting 22:02, 6 July 2006 (BST). You may post on pages that the other has posted on, but in doing so you shall not speak to or about them.

Game events should be kept in the game. If you are going to attack the other person on the wiki (so long as it does not violate any laws or wiki policies), no matter how in bad taste it might be, it should be only for things that occurred on the wiki, not things that occurred in the game. Furthermore, not being owned by any one user, group pages should not be used to launch personal attacks.

This is my ruling. Violation of it will be treated as vandalism in accordance with the arbitration policies. –Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 21:43, 6 July 2006 (BST)

• I disagree wholeheartedly and have a link on the BME website that goes to a moderator ruling that states says all parts of a group's wiki page, aside from the NPOV, are their own and they can pretty much say whatever they want to. That being said i will, of course, take out the word homo - Legend X 06:27, 6 July 2006 (EST)

Here is the wording on that decision

Due to constant interference between groups on the wiki, editing privileges are heavily codified. Groups, for the most part, have sole property of their Group page on the wiki, and may place whatever they wish on that page, under the proviso that they do not break any current established content restrictions (for example, Groups may not post pornography on Group pages, and may not impersonate other users). This includes the inclusion of users on "PK lists" or "Enemy lists" - Groups are quite allowed to place users on PK lists, and while it is expected that the reasons for inclusion be accurate, this is not a requirement. We recommend that all users treat PK lists with a good serving of salt, as information is rarely completely accurate on this lists.

An exception to this broad authority is the information that precedes the first heading of the page. While the rest of the page is allowed to be as biased and full of propaganda as the group wishes, the top section (known as the "definitional section", or "introduction"), must be written from a Neutral Point of View, ie a view that does not forward any particular agenda. Any information included in this section must be able to be confirmed. Many long, protracted battles have been fought over claims about "zerging" and "PKing" about certain groups, so while there is no real rule against this, we recommend that such claims not be included in such groups, not even in opinional form (ie "Some people claim that <Group> uses zerging tactics") or attributional form (ie "The group <Group 1> have made claims that that <Group 2> uses zerging tactics"). Groups are, of course, welcome to broadcast this information if they desire.

- Legend X 06:28, 6 July 2006 (EST)

You are free to disagree with my ruling as much as you want, but it has no bearing on its validity. You accepted me as an arbitrator, and so you are obliged to go by what I think is a reasonable solution to the problem, based upon the evidence presented to me. That said, although the policies do permit groups to control their own pages, there is a precedent for arbitration cases to override the ownership in special circumstances. –Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 23:45, 6 July 2006 (BST)

¹Sorry to step on toes, but the User:Denzel Washington and the User :Banana_Bear4 are one and the same, except this change was done before the common parlance of "A Bothen Spy" rules were implimented. I will now put up a cross-refference to that page so such a mistake isn't made again. --Karlsbad 18:14, 7 July 2006 (BST)

Sorry, I didn't realize that. Thanks for telling me. I don't think it's enough of a problem to change my ruling, though. –Bob Hammero ^{Mod•B'crat•T•A} 18:23, 7 July 2006 (BST)

OH SNAP!! Karlsbad! you've found out the secret truth!! Lets not let all the other probable Denzels go unnoticed,

   * User:Grigoriy
   * User:Banana Bear4
   * User:Caz
   * User:Stroth
   * User:Denzel Washington
   * User:Lucero Capell
   * User:AnimeSucks
   * User:Bermudez
   * User:Sla
   * User:Lamarr
   * User:D4rk N00b
   * User:Littlelisa
   * User:CthulhuFhtagn
   * User:Technerd

Curse you crafty Karlsbad!! -Banana Bear 20:28, 7 July 2006 (BST)

hahahaha this is comedy gold. Congrats Karlsbad :D --Denzel Washington 02:44, 9 July 2006 (BST)