UDWiki talk:Open Discussion/Suggestions
I can haz reading comprehension
It really isn't that bad if you read. Granted there is quite a bit to read when starting a new suggestion. That's probably why newbies so often get it wrong. I don't think i'd support a change toj suggestions honestly. Let it be somewhat akward to help weed out the bad ones. ~
06:28, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
- Plus, so many of the suggestions retread the same territory over and over again, which is why we need the datestamp as part of the page name. As long as we have that, newbies will always have to follow some instructions that are unusual when they create the page. Very few of them seem to have any trouble with the stuff after that unless they're just completely illiterate. Or, at least that was the case when I stopped paying attention to Suggestions around the start of the year. —Aichon— 07:33, 31 July 2011 (BST)
Read it and you should be fine. start thinking about the future instead of talking about the 'good ol days' and you might be fine. -- ϑanceϑanceℜevolution 07:41, 31 July 2011 (BST)
- its thinking about the future that i opened this discussion, to make it easy for newbs to make suggestions. The current suggestion system was useful in the past, when there were many suggestions being made in the same day... today, we barely have 3 active suggestions for a 14-days period --hagnat 15:29, 31 July 2011 (BST)
- That's hardly a reflection on the system, I tend to think it's more indicative of the fact that almost everything and its dog has been suggested. Making it easier for noobs to repeat that or make idiot suggestions isn't what I'd be for doing. There was a time 2 years ago where we nearly made it mandatory for all suggestions to go through DS because it seemed so necessary for a good suggestion to go through that step before it entered the suggestions system. this is a step in the opposite direction. And in terms of the technical aspect, I think Aichon has already explained why the difficult templating and stuff is required. -- ϑanceϑanceℜevolution 15:37, 31 July 2011 (BST)
- DS came about to prevent spam on the main suggestions system, which is does spectacularly well. And it's plenty easy to make a suggestion on there. --
RoosterDragon 
16:04, 31 July 2011 (BST)
- As Aichon stated if you can read you can follow the directions to post up a suggestion. The only change to the suggestion system I'd like would be to make DS mandatory even though I think most folks assume it is or take it there first anyways. In short it'd be simplest to leave it alone. 02:59, 1 August 2011 (BST)
- I should probably point out that there's even a visual walkthrough on DS for those who can't read full paragraphs without help.
01:50, 15 August 2011 (BST)
- I should probably point out that there's even a visual walkthrough on DS for those who can't read full paragraphs without help.
- As Aichon stated if you can read you can follow the directions to post up a suggestion. The only change to the suggestion system I'd like would be to make DS mandatory even though I think most folks assume it is or take it there first anyways. In short it'd be simplest to leave it alone. 02:59, 1 August 2011 (BST)
- DS came about to prevent spam on the main suggestions system, which is does spectacularly well. And it's plenty easy to make a suggestion on there. --
- That's hardly a reflection on the system, I tend to think it's more indicative of the fact that almost everything and its dog has been suggested. Making it easier for noobs to repeat that or make idiot suggestions isn't what I'd be for doing. There was a time 2 years ago where we nearly made it mandatory for all suggestions to go through DS because it seemed so necessary for a good suggestion to go through that step before it entered the suggestions system. this is a step in the opposite direction. And in terms of the technical aspect, I think Aichon has already explained why the difficult templating and stuff is required. -- ϑanceϑanceℜevolution 15:37, 31 July 2011 (BST)
Meh
The suggestion system is useless anyway, at least today. Users say what they want and not want, and Kevan puts it in, or most likely doesn't put it in, regardless of review status. (Or anything else for that matter.) The only tangible use the community review has is weeding out the completely fubar stuff (spam, dupes, humourous suggestions). Any reform of the suggestions system should first look at what it actually _achieves_ at the end of the day, and then cut away the fat to lead it to that achievement with the least amount of rules and red tape. -- Spiderzed█ 12:15, 31 July 2011 (BST)
- We should pester Kevan into implementing some of the better peer reviewed suggestions. How to narrow down the list to an amount he'd even think of checking through I'm not sure. 02:50, 1 August 2011 (BST)
- Actually, I think the UD suggestion system produces excellent material for implementing another game, not Urban Dead. I mean, Kevan may have no interest in incorporating anything at this point (not that I know that, of course, just going from what I've seen these years). But someone else might - in fact at some point I was interested myself, before RL caught up with me hard. So that's the value, I should say. One day someone will take upon themselves to build an "Urban Dead Next Generation" kind of game, all pretty and fancy and likely it'll be a hit at the AppStore... and this knowledge base may prove invaluable :) --Sophie ◆◆◆ CAPD 08:18, 14 August 2011 (BST)
- In all honesty an Urbandead app would probably work really well on the app store. It's a simple game low maintenance and minus some display issues runs perfectly on my iPhone already (in the web browser). To make the app itself wouldn't require Kevan (granted his insight my prove useful) and bringing players to UD might also get him back to actively updating it. 13:08, 14 August 2011 (BST)
- Actually, I think the UD suggestion system produces excellent material for implementing another game, not Urban Dead. I mean, Kevan may have no interest in incorporating anything at this point (not that I know that, of course, just going from what I've seen these years). But someone else might - in fact at some point I was interested myself, before RL caught up with me hard. So that's the value, I should say. One day someone will take upon themselves to build an "Urban Dead Next Generation" kind of game, all pretty and fancy and likely it'll be a hit at the AppStore... and this knowledge base may prove invaluable :) --Sophie ◆◆◆ CAPD 08:18, 14 August 2011 (BST)
Meh, #2
About 5 years ago, I did something stupid in the suggestions system and was called out on it. The end result was a self-imposed exile from that namespace.
To tell you the truth, I haven't missed being a part of the suggestions system at all. Maybe if some others took the same attitude, Suggestions would be a happier and more productive place. Asheets 23:30, 31 July 2011 (BST)
Why suggest?
Is there any evidence of active coding ongoing for the game?
There must be years of decent suggestions already out there that have never seen the light of day. Also going by the commentary so far maybe a more visible disclaimer on a shortened page could be used.
It could be as short as: "Don't bother, it's already been ridiculed and voted down." --UroguyTMZ 23:37, 31 July 2011 (BST)
- This is a rather good question. The game hasnt been updated in more than eight months, and the suggestion system is already full of peer reviewed suggestions. Do we still need it ? My original suggestion for the suggestion system (heh) was to make it easier to use... now, a good question is do we really need it ? --hagnat 00:02, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- In my mind it's not so much a question of if we need it. More of a question of if we should have it. I rather enjoy making up suggestions even if I know the chances of it being implemented are terribly low. I'm sure others feel the same way. Also you never know what someone might think up that really should be added into the game or when Kevan might be feeling frisky and go on a apree. In short we should have a suggestion system. 05:43, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- This. There's no reason odds of implementation should be used to justify a popular, if oft controversial, part of the wiki and we absolutely should do everything we can to make it easier to use despite some wiki goers personal opinions of it. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 15:37, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- My original idea, when i started this discussion, was rather simple: retire the current system and have the first one back into action. The first suggestion system featured a single page where all suggestions were listed and evaluated by the community. After some time a Developing Suggestion page was created, and the huge influx of suggestions made a system such as the current one needed. There is no such need now, so we should make the life of users easier to make and evaluate suggestions --hagnat 18:03, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- I can get behind that, with all of the rest being cycling tasks. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 19:51, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- If we could simplify the process that'd be golden. I still say we should keep DS though to avoid the problems if a flood of suggestions does happen again. 23:08, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- I can get behind that, with all of the rest being cycling tasks. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 19:51, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- My original idea, when i started this discussion, was rather simple: retire the current system and have the first one back into action. The first suggestion system featured a single page where all suggestions were listed and evaluated by the community. After some time a Developing Suggestion page was created, and the huge influx of suggestions made a system such as the current one needed. There is no such need now, so we should make the life of users easier to make and evaluate suggestions --hagnat 18:03, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- This. There's no reason odds of implementation should be used to justify a popular, if oft controversial, part of the wiki and we absolutely should do everything we can to make it easier to use despite some wiki goers personal opinions of it. --Karekmaps 2.0?! 15:37, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- In my mind it's not so much a question of if we need it. More of a question of if we should have it. I rather enjoy making up suggestions even if I know the chances of it being implemented are terribly low. I'm sure others feel the same way. Also you never know what someone might think up that really should be added into the game or when Kevan might be feeling frisky and go on a apree. In short we should have a suggestion system. 05:43, 3 August 2011 (BST)
Modest Proposal
*IF* the community would allow me to, i could create a new and simple system for the suggestions page. I'd place it under my username and everyone would be able to give input to it. --hagnat 18:06, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- Yes, because as we all know, it's the community that decides what's in your user area. go ahead Hag, actually show us what you'd replace the system with. --Rosslessness 19:55, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- missing the 'everyone would be able to give input to it' bit ? --hagnat 20:12, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- I wondered what the page I'm currently typing on was for. --Rosslessness 20:14, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- Got ya point. If it fit ya better, we could work a new system in this page front page then. Just, next time, please try not to word things out like i have sum sort of agenda or something... i am simply trying to make things easier for them newbs, and i have been running around too stoned to have some sort of agenda these days --hagnat 21:01, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- Haggy dear fellow I simply write what I think. But thanks for asking me not to imply you have a hidden agenda, whilst also inferring I have a hidden agenda. --Rosslessness 21:20, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- wait, what ? --hagnat 21:41, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- MAY IT BE WRITTEN SO MAY IT BE DONE--Yonnua Koponen Talk ! Contribs 23:00, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- wait, what ? --hagnat 21:41, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- Haggy dear fellow I simply write what I think. But thanks for asking me not to imply you have a hidden agenda, whilst also inferring I have a hidden agenda. --Rosslessness 21:20, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- Got ya point. If it fit ya better, we could work a new system in this page front page then. Just, next time, please try not to word things out like i have sum sort of agenda or something... i am simply trying to make things easier for them newbs, and i have been running around too stoned to have some sort of agenda these days --hagnat 21:01, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- I wondered what the page I'm currently typing on was for. --Rosslessness 20:14, 3 August 2011 (BST)
- missing the 'everyone would be able to give input to it' bit ? --hagnat 20:12, 3 August 2011 (BST)
I'm always interested in new ideas. even if others seem so instantly opposed to change. I say give it a shot Hagnat. 23:06, 3 August 2011 (BST)
The existing system seems to be primarily designed to deter individuals from posting suggestions. It subsequently serves to provide entertainment to the cadre of individuals who delight in using the hugely complex bureaucracy they've developed to not just pick apart the suggestion but the various minutia that each person is expected to follow when posting anything to the wiki. Any simplification would be welcome. --UroguyTMZ 17:07, 4 August 2011 (BST)
- In fairness DS is ridiculously easy to use. Have you any issue with the instructions on that page? --Rosslessness 17:23, 4 August 2011 (BST)
- In fairness, DS has a look-and-feel that resembles the old suggestion system. Any future system should be created with such simplicity in mind --hagnat 18:42, 4 August 2011 (BST)
- Excellent. --Rosslessness 19:37, 4 August 2011 (BST)
- DS appears to be the last link the "Suggestion Navigation" box which one may never get to after trying to parse through all of the dos and don'ts and warnings in "Suggestion Advice" and "Topics to Avoid and Why". That's before one goes back to the main Suggestions page which shows you 8 different links under the "Help" category which are all filled with potentially useful information on how to go about making your suggestion. I understand there is a clear reluctance of people who have been here for years on seeing the same topics come up, but in that case why not just close and eliminate the suggestion system for good? At present it seems the bar is far too high for someone who doesn't have several hours to spend reading through multiple pages to even figure out where to put a suggestion. After all there are "Current Suggestions" but also "Suggestions up for Voting" which apparently links to the same page. Perhaps leaving the DS page as the top link and then putting another page up for "Current Suggestions" would be a way to simplify. --UroguyTMZ 00:29, 5 August 2011 (BST)
- Excellent. --Rosslessness 19:37, 4 August 2011 (BST)
- In fairness, DS has a look-and-feel that resembles the old suggestion system. Any future system should be created with such simplicity in mind --hagnat 18:42, 4 August 2011 (BST)
yeaahhh... i wus gonna do this shit this weekend... but meh, i kind of wasted it all slacking off and enjoying my hangover... i'll try to work on this during the week, cuz i just got myself sumtime for my virtual life this next two weeks :D --hagnat 03:20, 8 August 2011 (BST)
