User talk:Peralta/Map Project

Archive: Danger Center

READ THIS FIRST AND THEN THE TEXT BELOW This is an archive of the talk page of a beta version of the Danger Center. While this userpage may still be used to test new lay-outs for the Danger Center, I'd like to ask people not to use this talkpage anymore. --- For comments regarding the Danger Center, visit the Danger Center talk page. For other comments, please use the talkpage of the user you're trying to reach. Archive User Talk Page Talk: Project Search Rates Archive: July-October 2012 Archive: Danger Center Archive: October 2012-2013 Chatter What happened to the ones that were done on the first line? -- Johnny Twotoes 02:07, 4 September 2012 (BST) Had to remove a few as I went along so I could check the map. I see you're working on it already.Charles Whipplebotum 02:14, 6 September 2012 (BST) This is as far as it goes. Damn man, you churned through about 9500 blocks of land in under a month o.O -- Johnny Twotoes 02:17, 6 September 2012 (BST) Awesome work. And I do mean awesome, as in, inducing awe. Can't say I can recall ever having seen anyone singlehandedly undertake such a large project in so little time on the wiki. —Aichon— 05:02, 6 September 2012 (BST) Credit where credit is due, the idea was mine and fun and all, but the bulk of the work was done by Charles, who inspired more awe in me than I can recall ever having experienced before. -- Johnny Twotoes 05:10, 6 September 2012 (BST) It's so close to having all the suburbs on the map! Is there not some way to increase the inclusion limit, or even make a single exception? --Klexur 05:17, 6 September 2012 (BST) Pretty sure that involves Kevan, and I don't see it happening :( We can use them on suburb pages tho, individually, or in quadrants? -- Johnny Twotoes 05:22, 6 September 2012 (BST) Have you thought about excluding a building type or two from the map? There are 234 hotels/motels and about the same number of libraries. Perhaps make them brown or reddish-green (I know reddish-green is not a color but you know what I mean). You could eliminate 500 or so template calls. Only other thing I can think of i tto exclude the corner burbs. Nobody cares much for them anyway. ~ 05:30, 6 September 2012 (UTC) Maybe we can distill it down to a TRP status map, but that will probably mean making a new template for each suburb, since we're keeping these for future projects (and it's still kind of nice and 500 template calls won't cut it, since we're missing about 17% of the map right now). Excluding the corners really is against the whole idea, but any other ideas are always welcome. -- Johnny Twotoes 13:52, 6 September 2012 (BST) Yeah the corners thing was said half jokingly. I tried trimming down some of the original code last night but with no success. I'll take a look at some other things when I have a moment. The whole danger report system relies on lots of moving parts which means more templates are being expanded than you are probably aware of. I'm pretty sure Rooster made them as lean and efficient as possible when he created the system, bu you never know. The fact the User namespace was used rather than Template namespace probably is causing additional isses but its way too late to fix that now. Even if redirect templates are made (i.e. Template:xx,yy) I don't think it will help. If we can get it working, I have one request. Can you make the map 800x800 rather than 1000x1000? I don't like side-scrolling over to view the entire map.~ 16:02, 6 September 2012 (UTC) We've looked into all of that, and since I was the one that wrote the base code that this all operates on and I already tried trimming as much as I could find that's unnecessary, you'll have a hard time condensing it further. The two things eating up space at this point are the names of the DangerReports and the variables contained within them. Since we can't go changing the variables around without gutting the entire DangerReport system, the only thing I can think of that would help would be to have Thegeneralbot move all 10,000 of the DangerReport pages to their corresponding coordinates (e.g. User:DangerReport/xx,yy), rather than their names, then set up the names as redirects to the coordinates. After that, it would be good if it could go through all 100 of these templates and replace the names with their corresponding coordinates. The space savings from doing so would be pretty darn close to making this thing possible, I would think. Otherwise, yeah, if we cut some information by only doing TRPs or the like we could probably have some success. —Aichon— 16:55, 6 September 2012 (BST) Now that I think of it, having Thegeneralbot edit the message for out of date blocks to be something like, "This block needs to be updated," instead of, "This report has not been updated in over a month. Please update if you can," may make a big difference. At this point now, pretty much any improvements will need to happen in the DangerReport, rather than in the map's code. —Aichon— 17:08, 6 September 2012 (BST) The map now is 800x800. Purely aesthetical question: could we get rid of the white space in between each suburb? I'd also like to point out that what's breaking the map is not the character limit, but rather the amount of template calls ;) -- Johnny Twotoes 17:36, 6 September 2012 (BST) There is no character limit, other than what your browser can load. As for the whitespace, sure, give them a nice margin:0px probably. That said, I think it looks better with them, otherwise you wouldn't be able to tell where the suburbs were easily. —Aichon— 17:50, 6 September 2012 (BST) Be my guest, I tried and messed up (I always hated margins and borders and everything around cells...) -- Johnny Twotoes 18:06, 6 September 2012 (BST) Regarding variables, would it be possible to add new variables rather than changing existing ones? For example, Johnny's map uses the {{{template}}} variable to pass through specific formatting. Could a new varaible be added named {{{t}}} without screwing anything up? If so, I figure we can cut ~4800 bytes from the map (7*~70)100. Might not be quite enough, but at this point, I think every byte counts. ~ 18:05, 6 September 2012 (UTC) Well, if you were to add a {{{t}}} variable to all 10,000 DangerReports (as opposed to replacing the {{{template}}} variable, at a minimum you would be adding 8 characters to each DangerReport (i.e. ), while you'd only be shaving 7 characters per template call (i.e. template vs. t), so it would actually result in a net increase of 10,000 characters in the size of the inclusions, thus eliminating a suburb or two, I think. If you were to outright replace the {{{template}}} variable with a {{{t}}} variable, you'd save 7 characters in each DangerReport (i.e. 70,000 characters), plus an additional 7 characters in each template call of the DangerReports (i.e. another 70,000). Unfortunately, that would also mean needing to track down every single transclusion of the DangerReports that specifies the {{{template}}} variable and changing them as well. —Aichon— 19:03, 6 September 2012 (BST) Note: Only the buildings use templates ;) Empty lots haven't been included, so it wouldn't be 10.000 templates, rather something of 5.000 ;) -- Johnny Twotoes 23:26, 6 September 2012 (BST) True that. Nonetheless, that's just a matter of scale, not of which way the scale weighs. —Aichon— 01:09, 7 September 2012 (BST) How about moving this project to the User:DangerReport namespace. Then, you'd be able to use templates formatted like {{../The Blackmore Building}} instead of {{User:DangerReport:The Blackmore Building}}. That ought to shave off thousands of bytes from each template call. ~ 01:17, 7 September 2012 (UTC) Ooh, good idea. That would work. —Aichon— 02:34, 7 September 2012 (BST) I love the creative machine you guys are when motivated :) Vapor, the idea is superbe, but it does mean changing 5.000 temps again... -- Johnny Twotoes 03:30, 7 September 2012 (BST) Unfortunately it will take some more work but not an unreasonable amount more. You'll need to create User:DangerReport/A and then copy/paste all 100 of your demo pages to the User:DangerReport namespace. Before pasting, take the code into a word processor and do a Find and Replace All function, replacing the words "User:DangerReport" with "..". This is just an asthetic suggestion, but I'd reccomend a different naming schema than Demo# when creating pages in the DangerReport namespace. Maybe something like User:DangerReport/Suburb1. This would also be a good time to come up with a good name for your map, unless you want to keep calling it Map Project. Glad to have been a help. Aichon did most of the really helpful stuff and Whipplebotham gets big big kudos for filling out all those map templates. ~ 04:02, 7 September 2012 (UTC) The Twotoes-Whipplebotum Malton Danger Center is the name. That's it :P -- Johnny Twotoes 04:05, 7 September 2012 (BST) Might I suggest a slightly shorter name? Perhaps User:DangerReport/MaltonDangerCenter. I think the two of you absolutely deserve credit for your creation, but I think it would perhaps be better presented with an introductory section above the map rather than in the title. ~ 04:25, 7 September 2012 (UTC) We'll consider it, but since ancient cartographers' maps were named after them, I'm not sure how much shorter it'll get :P -- Johnny Twotoes 05:03, 7 September 2012 (BST) You could always pick something simple and then custom title it like you did here.-MHSstaff 05:10, 7 September 2012 (BST) I'm personally leaning towards S00 through S99, that way they can not only save space but also attach a little bit of extra meaning. I'd avoid using just plain numbers, since that would not be an appropriate choice for a name in that namespace. —Aichon— 06:29, 7 September 2012 (BST) Hey wow! I should check this more often. Anyway, I broke the map into quadrants User:Peralta/Map_Project_NW, added coordinate numbers, links to other quadrants and stole the key from the TRP Building reports. It's at least 100% usable in this fashion. I can start moving all the demos to User:Danger_Report under the names S00 - S99 and replace 'User:Danger_Report' with '..'. When we shortened 'NVRcolor' to 'A' we went from ~55 suburbs to ~83, this might do the trick. -Charles Whipplebotum 21:44, 8 September 2012 (BST) Looking good Charles! anyway we could add the name of the building and possibly status when you hover over it or am I asking too much yet again and should be punished? :p -- Johnny Twotoes 03:15, 9 September 2012 (BST) Possible? Yes. Doing so within the space left? Not a chance. —Aichon— 07:23, 9 September 2012 (BST) I'm talking about the quadrant map ;) -- Johnny Twotoes 15:10, 9 September 2012 (BST) Aichon is right, it involves incorporating <td title="BUILDING NAME"> into each building field. This would nearly double the size of each DEMO. A bit much. I can add the suburb name on the hover. As for the building/suburb status on hover I think that'd involve a whole new line of code. I'll fiddle with it, but thats why I added the map key. -Charles Whipplebotum 16:35, 9 September 2012 (BST) See my recent change to A (since undone; also note that it's very intentionally missing a quotation mark at the end). To make a long story short, doing that and removing the title="SUBURB_NAME" from each demo will do the trick. Unfortunately, on the city map you go from getting around 83 suburbs to just 36. That's enough for a quadrant, but not with much to spare. You could do something similar to also include the status, but I think the Legend is a better way to manage that instead. —Aichon— 04:46, 10 September 2012 (BST) Updated all the DEMOs to include their respective suburb name on hover. I'll be porting the map over to User:Danger_Report and trim as much as I can. -Charles Whipplebotum 19:42, 9 September 2012 (BST) Generalbot I have heard a ton of talking about this, yet have only seen results of its actions once or twice. 1.Can we use it for this project? 1b. How? 2. How frequently is the Generalbot used to update the sitreps? 3. Could we shorten the "unknown" message, thus saving anywhere between 5.000-25.000 characters (depending on the level of activity)? -- Johnny Twotoes 15:09, 7 September 2012 (BST) You'd have to ask him for 1 and 2. He'd probably be willing to do 3 if it could be proven that it would help. I'm unsure if it will. Since your format template does not pass through that information, I don't believe it is counted at all. If it is, you have an even bigger problem with user sigs and user provided danger info being counted. If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say it works much like using a switch template and if the wiki software does notneed to process that information, it is not counted in your inclusion limits. ~ 15:28, 7 September 2012 (UTC) Huh. I was convinced you were incorrect about the way that was handled, but in running a quick test before running my mouth, it looks like you're right and that changes in the text of the message and with the signatures have no effect on adding/saving space. Shucks. There goes an easy couple thousand characters. Anyway, if you want to use Thegeneralbot, you need to talk to The General. Simple as that. Well, that, and having him code up a script that will do what you want. And the last time it updated the reports was about 6 months ago, I think, though that's just a simple script he runs. —Aichon— 15:48, 7 September 2012 (BST) Maps moved to DangerReport So I've edited and moved everything over to User:DangerReport (Incomplete full map and quadrant maps). 83 suburbs is definitely the max the wiki can handle. Looks like I'll be undoing the suburb names and changing User:DangerReport/A for use with the quadrant maps. -Charles Whipplebotum 05:30, 10 September 2012 (BST) I'm looking into it. Something interesting. The post-expand and template agrument sizes for both pages are nearly identical. User:DangerReport/DangerCenter NewPP limit report Preprocessor node count: 77881/1000000 Post-expand include size: 305269/307200 bytes Template argument size: 45477/307200 bytes Expensive parser function count: 0/100 User:Peralta/Map Project NewPP limit report Preprocessor node count: 77881/1000000 Post-expand include size: 305284/307200 bytes Template argument size: 45477/307200 bytes Expensive parser function count: 0/100 Which means Aichon and I may have been incorrect about how template calls effect post-expand and template argument sizes. ~ 05:38, 10 September 2012 (UTC) Actually, I think the problem is that the wiki doesn't allow the ".." trick to be used as a shortcut. Anyhow, the only other place I could find to cut some bytes was on Template:StatusMap unknown. I changed the hex color to a a similar triple hex color, which ended up shaving off about 25,000 bytes. It just wasn't enough, though. I was able to add 7 more suburbs, bringing the max allowed at the moment to 90. That doesn't quite get the job done, though. The only other thing I can think to do is change your tables from html to pipes. I don't know how big of an affect it will have. Might make matters worse and that would be a ton more work. Might try one to see if there is any difference in size. ~ 06:38, 10 September 2012 (UTC) You raised the limit to 90? Nice, but I assume it isn't implemented yet? -- Johnny Twotoes 14:19, 10 September 2012 (BST) (10 more, we're getting DAMN close) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Peralta (talk • contribs) at an unknown time. I implemented it on User:DangerReport/DangerCenter only. You'll need to do the same here. I was able to get it up to 91 burbs after making a few more changes to othe danger levels. It's pushing the very limits of post-expand limits though. Not sure what else can be done at this point. If there is a way to reduce it any more, I haven't found it yet. ~ 15:48, 10 September 2012 (UTC) I found this [table converter] back on Friday. I didn't play with it for very long, but it might help expedite the conversion. Also tried the new 'A' it displays the building name on hover and shows the suburb on the blank fields. It seriously limits the big map though (38 suburbs). -Charles Whipplebotum 16:54, 10 September 2012 (BST) See the topic below for that ;) Probably better to make the quadrant maps pull from separate pages than the full map. -- Johnny Twotoes 18:56, 10 September 2012 (BST) That HTML to Wiki table converter should be taken seriously. I just tested it with User:DangerReport/S01 and it freed 381 characters. This could net over 38,100 characters if applied to all 100 suburbs! --Klexur 21:32, 10 September 2012 (BST) Quadrant maps If we create individual pages for the Quadrant map (basicly copying the suburb pages for the giant one), it would be possible to include something along the line of "BUILDING NAME, SUBURB NAME" when hovering over each part, right? -- Johnny Twotoes 14:23, 10 September 2012 (BST) Likely not possible, though it'd be close. You could use the change to A that I linked above, but then you'd also need to add in the suburb name for every single block, which will be a LOAD of more characters. Considering just adding the building name dropped us from 83 to 39 suburbs, I'd imagine that adding the suburb name will drop us below the 25 we'd need for a full quadrant, but you're welcome to try. The other alternative would be to make versions of A that are specific to each suburb. Doing that would work, but it means making 100 versions of A. —Aichon— 16:20, 10 September 2012 (BST) Another option would be to create a different set of DEMOs for the quadrant map that reference 'B' (Building reference A) instead of 'A'. -Charles Whipplebotum 17:01, 10 September 2012 (BST) You'll actually need to do that regardless, assuming you want to maintain the full-city map as well. The problem I was talking about is that if you want to add the suburb names without blowing up the template, you'll need to add them to A (or B), but we have no way to add them on the fly, so you'll have to hard-code them in, which means having different versions of A for each suburb (or else adding suburb info to every single DangerReport :P ). —Aichon— 17:06, 10 September 2012 (BST) I think copying the code to a new page so we can make decent quadrant maps is a small sacrifice in time etc. For the record: I have a friend visiting, so I won't be able to pay fulltime attention to this, will try and keep updated tho... Sorry Charles, I know most of the work has fallen on your shoulders already :$ -- Johnny Twotoes 18:55, 10 September 2012 (BST) I played with the Peralta maps this morning temporarily. Using the new 'A', hover displayed building names while blank fields displayed suburb names. I will create DangerReport/B (using Aichon's Building name 'A') and DangerReport/Q00-Q99 (using replace ../A with ../B) and change the quadrant maps to reference Q00-Q99 to separate the full map from the quadrant maps completely. -Charles Whipplebotum 19:26, 10 September 2012 (BST) Charles, it needs to be said again: you're awesome for doing the grunt labor on this. It's easy for me to talk theory, but there's no way my rubber would be hitting the road on a project like this like yours has been. —Aichon— 19:30, 10 September 2012 (BST) Aichon, you should have seen him going on the first few steps, implementing all the buildings. I got 1 suburb a day done in the time he did 3, and by the time I got home from work, he already did another two... It's quite intimidating actually :P -- Johnny Twotoes 19:36, 10 September 2012 (BST) I saw it. I've been watching every single edit. ;) —Aichon— 19:40, 10 September 2012 (BST) You sneaky bastard ^^ We've got a ton of things in the pipeline, but since we're 90% finished with this one, I want to get it done first :) What the hell can we do to make things shorter, slimmer, and get those final 10 burbs up and running... -- Johnny Twotoes 20:00, 10 September 2012 (BST) Unfortunately, I've already offered everything I've thought of. At this point, unless someone suggests something that gets me thinking in a different direction, I have nothing left. —Aichon— 20:20, 10 September 2012 (BST) Well, I had the time available and needed to knock the rust off my HTML (haven't touched it since I stopped using MySpace). Hopefully this is what UD needs to re-spark some interest. I'll be trying Pipe tables next for the big map suburbs (not sure if it'll have the desired effect). Clever of Vapor to shorten the Unknown color though. -Charles Whipplebotum 21:38, 10 September 2012 (BST) The converter suggested by Charles in the topic above this one could free up between 25.000 and 50.000 characters, if everything goes according to plan. How many more do we need? PB&J 21:43, 10 September 2012 (BST) Quadrant Maps and Full Map are completely independent of eachother now. Quadrant Maps just need to be touched up aesthetically (narrow down the border and whatnot). Next up, converting 'S' reports to pipes. -Charles Whipplebotum 00:16, 11 September 2012 (BST) Added {{{status}}} to building template B. Quadrant maps are still ok and hovering over a square now shows building name and status. Looking around for some other small things :) PB&J 15:14, 12 September 2012 (BST) Addding the status on hover seems kinda redundant to me (doesn't provide anything new if you know the color code: I know its safe because its green)... but then again, we can just remove the Building Status Key from the Quadrant maps. I made the big map clickable and linked to the quadrant maps. -Charles Whipplebotum 21:40, 12 September 2012 (BST) I'd vote against removing the building status key. I find it much quicker to see what color is what than having to position my mouse over such small squares. --Klexur 21:45, 12 September 2012 (BST) I had reduced the size of the Quadrant Maps so the key could fit without having to scroll (on my screen at least). I'll undo the size reduction. -Charles Whipplebotum Another idea instead of showing the status on hover could be to show {{{user}}} since it includes the last time the status was updated. --Klexur 17:40, 13 September 2012 (BST) I think that's not a bad idea actually, although some people's status updates really can be quite long. And while the color codes are pretty easy for safe, ruined and unknown, I find it easy to just hover over a building for the other shades :) And small? The quadrant maps are plenty big for me, even for smaller devices. PB&J 17:48, 13 September 2012 (BST) Sexy Signatures I also took a sneakpeek at the code for your sig and decided I needed a sexy one as well. The result is: PB&J Just so long as you're aware of how it works and what its drawbacks are (e.g. some parts don't work in IE8 or earlier). Get your own font though. Cochin is mine! :P (not that anyone has it installed anyway) —Aichon— 20:20, 10 September 2012 (BST) Pretty sure I do, but as you wish, oh most terrifying font-hording Aichon :( {{SUBST:User:Peralta/Signature}} 21:11, 10 September 2012 (BST) (why the fuck does my signature keep changing itself to a version with SUBST: in it?!) Lol, you can keep Cochin. I'm just givin' you a hard time. As for the subst stuff, see here: Help:Signatures#Customized_Signatures. More or less, you need to use nosubst. —Aichon— 21:21, 10 September 2012 (BST) Like this? -_- {{SUBST:Nosubst|User:Peralta/Signature}} 21:23, 10 September 2012 (BST) I'm thinking "no", based on how it looks here. In my Preferences, I have {{SUBST:Nosubst|User:Aichon/Signature}} for myself and I have "Treat signature as wikitext (without an automatic link)" checked. —Aichon— 21:31, 10 September 2012 (BST) Hurray for sexy signatures! :D PB&J 21:41, 10 September 2012 (BST) Sigh... Someday... :( -Charles Whipplebotum 00:19, 11 September 2012 (BST) You want me to hook you up Charles? :) PB&J 03:56, 11 September 2012 (BST) Meh, I'll get to it when I get to it. Thanks though. -Charles Whipplebotum 06:13, 11 September 2012 (BST) Big map fixes Having problem with the conversion to pipes because there is a "|" in the middle of the color reference. But it gave me another idea... Replacing style="background: with bgcolor=" tried it on S01 and it cut out ~500 characters. -Charles Whipplebotum 06:34, 11 September 2012 (BST) I changed User:DangerReport/A so that it now calls shorter named templates. For example, Template:StatusMap unknown is now Template:SM unknown. NOt sure exactly how much it helped because Charlie is making other changes but it probably had some effect. The template calls could be whittled even a bit further I think if templates name Template:unknown Template:safe, etc were made and passed through. We'll have to see how Charlie's fix works. Looks like we're up to 93. ~ 07:12, 11 September 2012 (UTC) IT WORKS! 100 SUBURBS DISPLAYED SIMULTANEOUSLY! Managed to free up ~50000 characters. I have a feeling it wasn't just my fix. Props to Vapor for his work as well! Now we'll never know who fixed it :D ! I saw that Floyde Stadium was showing up as pink on the big map and found it had an incorrect status. Before fixing the status I checked the quadrant map it was black. How could the maps display different colors? Is this a fluke or was someone working on something? -Charles Whipplebotum 09:22, 11 September 2012 (BST) Woot! Now we just need to get more people to update building status reports more frequently. Which reminds me, would it be possible to automate pulling the barricade levels from UDBrain reports? --Klexur 15:58, 11 September 2012 (BST) Aweome. At the risk of suggesting something that could potentially break the page again, I think some style is needed. At minimum, I think the map should be centered and the legend added below the map. Legend can be subst'd to prevent more template calls. Maybe add x,y grid to top and left like the quadrant map. As well, link to the quadrant maps from the big map. I think it can all be done without breaking the page as long as no more templates are called. ~ 16:47, 11 September 2012 (UTC) Centered and map legend added. It took me three tries to get it submitted (page refused to load twice) so maaaaybe we should keep it like this, on the danger of sounding too careful, but I'd hate to give the page a loading time of half an hour :P And for the record, Charles, me and several other people from the DEM Academy have been updating as many sitreps as we can get our greedy hands on, not to forget Bob Moncrief who keeps a very vigilant eye on the radio ;) PB&J 17:30, 11 September 2012 (BST) Oh you're working on it too... I'll leave you to make it pretty. ;D -Charles Whipplebotum 17:50, 11 September 2012 (BST) I think the map legend should be more like the one for the quadrant maps (Template:TRP_List) since the suburb status colors aren't being used. --Klexur 17:53, 11 September 2012 (BST) I respectfully disagree, this keeps it plain and simple. I will, however, work on the current set-up, with a tad more info, etc. PB&J 17:58, 11 September 2012 (BST) Wait, what? Lol Charles went ahead and did it any way so now I'm confused what you were disagreeing about. --Klexur 18:02, 11 September 2012 (BST) *sigh* Never mind :) If Charles did it, I wouldn't dare disagreeing with him... There ain't nobody out there knowing more about the code behind each line and each pixel in the project than he does :) PB&J 18:22, 11 September 2012 (BST) Oh sorry. Didn't know it was a controversy. The Building Status Key is smaller by several hundred characters and indicates what is being displayed on the map. I made that change before posting earlier. -Charles Whipplebotum 02:49, 12 September 2012 (BST) I still can't believe we actually managed to get it up to 100 suburbs. Considering we started in the 30s and thought we were already pushing it at that point, this is incredibly impressive. You guys just don't take no for an answer. —Aichon— 21:55, 11 September 2012 (BST) Well, we only really encountered problems after the fifties, and the real issue was getting it to 90 and finally 100 :) The collaborations here were so great most problems survived shorter than a survivor in the middle of Ridleybank yelling 'RRF SUCKS' ;) PB&J 02:08, 12 September 2012 (BST) Harharh cute joke, harman. It was an interesting project. Had to think outside the box for some of it. I do enjoy implausible victories. ~ 02:57, 12 September 2012 (UTC) Cute joke? Click the green B in my signature ;) And I never expected it to be going so fast, never mind actually succeeding when my first mentionning of it created a tidal wave of "Doomed to fail"-reasons. I can only take credit for the original idea and basic functionality ideas. All other credit goes to Charles for the crunching and several good ideas and the great experiences Vapor, Aichon, Klexur and several others shared with us! PB&J 03:01, 12 September 2012 (BST) Well to be honest, "Doomed to Fail" wasn't too far off the mark. These are without a doubt the largest pages on the wiki and that final push only juuuust got it under the threshold. I think if there were just 50 or so more buildings in Malton, we'd probably be either a) scratching our heads thinking of what more could be done or b) giving up. . ~ 03:23, 12 September 2012 (UTC) I'm all for giving credit where credit is due, but I don't think I actually contributed to this most impressive project. I mostly just watched and cheered from the sidelines since there wasn't much I knew how to do. In reference to the RRF joke, as stupid as this may sound, I kind of want to go try that now. --Klexur 03:33, 12 September 2012 (BST) Wait til the 5th of November and I'll join you. :D -Charles Whipplebotum 05:13, 12 September 2012 (BST) Charles, my friend, I will be there! --Klexur 05:25, 12 September 2012 (BST) Avoiding any borderline schizophrenia here: reserve a table for three boys ;) PB&J 14:15, 12 September 2012 (BST) User:DangerReport/DangerCenter doesn't display correctly on my Android phone whereas User:Peralta/Map Project shows up just fine. The cells' content is not filling the available vertical space so they appear squished with white space beneath. --Klexur 21:03, 15 September 2012 (BST) It's not just your phone. It stopped working correctly for me in Chrome and Safari as well a few days back. Not sure what change did it, but I got distracted and forgot to mention it at the time. —Aichon— 23:10, 15 September 2012 (BST) The only thing I've change this week was making the suburbs clickable. Guess its not compatible across all browsers. Charles Whipplebotum 23:52, 15 September 2012 (BST) Yeah that's what borked it for me. I actually didn't realize it wasn't borked across the board. Like Aichon, I was busy and assumed you were still experimenting. ~ 03:41, 16 September 2012 (UTC) They worked fine for me in FF, but I now see they are messed up in Chrome. Best revert and put those extra characters to better use. PB&J 04:31, 16 September 2012 (BST) Well, this is the sort of thing that can be done, but it just needs to be fooled around with a bit to get working. There's actually a pretty good chance that Chrome is rendering it "correctly" and that FF is the one making the mistake, so if you can get it working in Chrome without a hacky approach, I'd bet it would work in FF too. —Aichon— 05:18, 16 September 2012 (BST) Protection You want the page, or any of the templates protected? --I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, I'm the Ross it deserves. 17:32, 11 September 2012 (BST) Backtrack: I think you should ask Charles or any of the other guys with experience in the mess of templates we're creating to see if there are any that could benefit from protection ;) PB&J 17:58, 11 September 2012 (BST) Sure. I hate some fool to try and edit a template and break the whole thing. --I'm not the Ross UDWiki needs, I'm the Ross it deserves. 17:59, 11 September 2012 (BST) Agreed, but I don't see anyone getting to the map very fast right now, it isn't linked or published on high-traffic pages I believe :) [let's keep it that way until it's done] PB&J 18:01, 11 September 2012 (BST) Probably best to keep things unprotected for now in case we non-sysops need to make any on-the-fly adjustments. There is always revert if it gets vandalised. ~ 18:28, 11 September 2012 (UTC) Agreed. For now, changes are still being made, potentially to hundreds of pages, so protecting them might mean more work in the near future. They'll eventually want to get protected once everything settles down, but not for now, since it's still in active development. —Aichon— 18:42, 11 September 2012 (BST) Uses Apart from the big map and the quadrant map, I've been looking at the suburb template to implement the status maps as well. Looking at it, I think it may be a pretty good idea to replace the EMR with this, since honestly: only veterans know what that EMR means and even then it's hardly used. The visual representation of the suburb we provide would mean a very big improvement I think. A second option would be adding a new line in the template, with the map on the left and a very short status key on the right. A third option would be having the suburb status map occupy both spaces, thus being easier to spot. Your suggestions? PB&J 15:01, 12 September 2012 (BST) I'd be more inclined to have it replace the phone mast, then bump the phone mast down to have a whole line to itself, that way we have a group of squares together, and it'd also be right under the TRP map for the suburb, making it easier to see which TRPs were up or down in the map. It also preserves the EMR, which serves as a single point that can be updated to represent the entire suburb, making it both easy and quick to update, as well as more likely to have been updated recently, making it more relevant. Also, it'd be nice if for that version of the map you could make each block a clickable link that would take you to a page where you could update the block's DangerReport. Of course, that'd likely mean making even more versions of the various templates, but I think it'd be worth it, and I've done stuff like that in the past. —Aichon— 15:55, 12 September 2012 (BST) I'll look into it during my next break, shouldn't be too hard. PB&J 15:59, 12 September 2012 (BST) Instead of making more versions of the suburbs would it be possible to make a {{{template}}} variable for each building? To clarify I mean where it currently says style="background:#{{../Palprey Road Police Department|template=../B}} you could replace the ../B with the variable. This way you could then assign it globally to A, B, C, or even D and each could do something slightly different. As a side question, why does C exist when its only difference is a space? --Klexur 21:18, 12 September 2012 (BST) On your side question: I used it to test out the hover function (which sounds waaaaay cooler at first, before you realise it's about hovering text ^^ ) PB&J 21:20, 12 September 2012 (BST) Mmmm...yes and no. Yes, we can do something like what you're talking about to save work and enable better reuse. Unfortunately, the changes I was talking about are more complicated than that, since we'll need to add links to every single td element, and that can't be done via a template that is inserted where we're currently inserting A and B. A better alternative might be to replace <td bgcolor="#{{../Palprey Road Police Department|template=../A}}"></td> with something like {{../D|Palprey Road Police Department|A}}, then have D contain <td bgcolor="#{{../{{{1}}}|template=../{{{2}}}}}"></td>. Then, to do something like what I was talking about, we'd just use E instead of D, and E would have those extra elements in it. We could also combine that with your idea by replacing the D or E with a variable, such as {{{1}}}. Of course, adding that extra layer also means adding a few extra { and } for variables, and that may very well push us over the top, hence why simply making some new suburb pages (we already used Q and S, so maybe R?) with the links might really just be the best way to go. —Aichon— 21:53, 12 September 2012 (BST) That darn limit... If it wasn't for the limit the map probably could have been made in a more reusable way. --Klexur 23:13, 12 September 2012 (BST) Oh, come on :) This wouldn't have been half as fun if not for the challenge :) I loved how I went to bed pondering over one problem or another, and by the time I woke up, there were several suggestions and Charles had already gone ahead and make it happen! This is why this wiki is still alive, to accomplish something nigh impossible for fun :P PB&J 00:31, 13 September 2012 (BST) This is fucking evil Wow this is pretty nuts. Like pretty god damned nuts. Anyway, some further suggestions for increased evilness: Move User:DangerReport/A to the template namespace. Reduce template call to template=A. Renaming the 'template' variable to 't' has been mentioned. But you're thinking too small. Rename it to '1'. Instead of |t=A}} you can use |A}} like all the cool cats. Change Template:SM unknown and others to use a template for the category. Unless it has changed recently, a template in a noinclude does not expand and thus does not count against limits. The length of the noinclude does count though, so by using a half dozen characters to call a template, that's much better than inlining it. If you're feeling really evil, remove the noinclude altogether, because that's like a trillion characters compared to a mere 3 for a short hex code. Sucks for organization though. An idea that's not really used anywhere: Move styles to the sitewide CSS. You can remove all the inline styles and just stick an id on the whole thing. Probably a good idea for some of the often used CSS in lots of things to be honest. Bring back the rule that users should input a status in lowercase. A while ago somebody stuck a call to lc: on a status somewhere which means it's now everywhere. You can save some characters by removing that call - but obviously wrongly cased statuses will break. Move all reports. User:DangerReport/Long Ass Name becomes Template:DR/XXYY. (Ok we've known that since before I was here. It's just too much effort to change :P) Shorter and again allows you to drop the namespace prefix. I've missed the boat on this, but I do wonder how much the non-silly suggestions might buy you :) --  RoosterDragon  19:47, 25 September 2012 (BST) I missed you. <3 —Aichon— 20:38, 25 September 2012 (BST) Seriously though, most of these are good, but the second one has been mentioned, and the issue with it is that we'd need to rename it in all 10,000 DangerReports, so we need a bot for that (*hint hint nudge nudge*). We'd also need to fix any existing uses of it, and we'd be making the functionality less useful for other people that use it too. Moving things to the CSS really would be a great idea, but that's a path I tend to avoid mentioning, just because it's kinda not been done much and the proper ways to go about doing it haven't really been ironed out yet for sysops. And a lowercase rule is still in place, but we just don't trust users to abide by it, last I checked. —Aichon— 20:38, 25 September 2012 (BST) I'm a bit going overkill in RL and Charles has had a seizure after the previous buttload of work I think, so any major changes right now are not to be expected :) Also, the basic map kind of is what we already envisioned, I'm thinking about some spin-offs and a more notable presence on the wiki, but that's for as soon as I have the time :) PB&J 18:03, 26 September 2012 (BST) October Surprise (Suburb Templates) I've gone ahead and updated Template:Suburb with a Suburb-sized Danger Center Report and verified it working on all suburb pages. Enjoy! -Charles Whipplebotum 03:05, 31 October 2012 (UTC)