Suggestion talk:20090609 Gameplay Change - Stand Up

comments moved from voting

1. Dupe - This suggestion (undecided) is almost identical in both intent and effect, the only difference is that it's an effect of Vigour Mortis and not a freebie. It is exactly identical in practice if you're starting a brand new zombie. --WanYao 19:20, 9 June 2009 (BST)
   • ftr I support the idea. Headshot to babah zambahz is a horrible discourgement for new players. --WanYao 19:34, 9 June 2009 (BST)
     • But it isn't exactly identical for new survivor players. Being eaten by zombies is also a dircouragement for new players. --Rolfero 19:38, 9 June 2009 (BST)
       • It's 100% dupe for new zombies, 80% dupe for new survivors. And, as I said, its spirit and effect is identical to Sweirs' suggestion; the difference is minor enough imo to make this a dupe. --WanYao 19:43, 9 June 2009 (BST)
         • Sorry, you lost me at "80% dupe for new survivors". Not trying to be rude, could you please explain how this could be 80% dupe for survivors? --Rolfero 19:52, 9 June 2009 (BST)
           • It was an arbitrary # used to make a point. The point being that it doesn't require a skill purchase for a brand new survivor -- that's the only difference from sweirs' suggestion. But it's so easy for survivors to gain XP, and it takes only one skill -- a first tier skill -- to "catch up" with sweirs' suggestion... I picked 80% as a number to abtractly represent very-close-but-not-exactly. Clear enough now? --WanYao 22:05, 9 June 2009 (BST)
             • No, too many hard words.
               Just kidding. Yeah, but I still think my suggestion is slightly more different from sweirs' suggestion, but I admit they both serve the approximately same purpose. --Rolfero 22:17, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Developing Suggestions Discussion

I'm trying not to be offensive about it, but, there's no way to make this good... Because it's just pointless, 100xp isn't to hard to get, and ridding of it just getting rid of a challenge of being a zombie. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 11:05, 31 May 2009 (BST)

This doesn't help zombies, it helps survivors. -- . . <== DDR Approved Editor 11:06, 31 May 2009 (BST)

How does this help survivors? Please, fill me in. --Rolfero 11:28, 31 May 2009 (BST)

Think about it this way. There are two players, one is a survivor who didn't get any zombie skills, and one is a zombie who didn't get any survivor skills. Both of these are semi-legitimate pathways to go for characters. One dies. Which one gets hurt more? The survivor. He pays 10ap to get up, and then has to spend another 10ap to get revived. And that's if they don't get killed/headshotted again whilst waiting for a revive. The career zombie? Just 1AP, or 6AP, depending. Implementing this would help survivors more, because as I would say to that idiot Zombie Lord in response to his opinion below, Getting Ankle Grab is one of the top priorities of a zombie, and survivors too. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 11:34, 31 May 2009 (BST)

Okay, changed in the description. Now the AP cost would be changed for ALL players. Happy? BTW, Iscariot still said this helped survivors more, you said it hurt them more. --Rolfero 11:38, 31 May 2009 (BST)

Flip a coin I guess. It really doesn't matter to either of them. They just like to see their words up there. On your other point, I assumed you meant it would apply to both Survivors and Zombies equally, so yes that change is good.--Zombie Lord 11:43, 31 May 2009 (BST)

It feels like people usually don't check the developing suggestions, only the current suggestions. Guess I'll need to put it there to get more points of views. Unless other people came to look here. :P :/ --Rolfero 11:46, 31 May 2009 (BST)

Unfortunately, yes, not many people look in here, and about 90% of the ones that do aren't here to actually help anybody, but rather to troll, show off their "game knowledge", and generally talk down to people. It won't get much better over at Current though.--Zombie Lord 12:25, 31 May 2009 (BST)

No, I was specifying the current situation that Malton is in, when it comes to standing. Now imagine that scenario, and take away all AP costs for survivors at level 1. There's no longer a cost of dying (which was 10ap) and getting revived (also 10ap), whereas a Zombie achieves that at level 3 already. D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 08:27, 1 June 2009 (BST)

I personally like the idea of taking the load off of New Zombies. Losing 10 AP because you didn't understand dying on your first day of playing will give new players starting as a zombie a bad taste. Reducing the cost to 5 AP for all players seems pretty reasonable with a catch. This does really weaken the advantage of getting Headshot. Picture a Mall raid: 10 low level zombies break through a barricade protecting 10 high level survivors. The zombies take about 10-15 AP each to bust the barricade leaving them 35-40 AP. They stand there and let the Survivors attack and go down. The survivors just used up 10-15 rounds each and about 12-17 AP. The zombies, assuming every survivor has headshot spend at most 10 AP getting up. Repeat and now the Survivors have to flee or die since 10 Zombies with 25 or more AP are there. Half WILL die. My suggestion is to reduce the cost of standing up to 5 AP but headshot still forces them to use 15 to get up until they buy Ankle grab. Then it takes 1 AP or 6 AP to get up. No one loses and the amount of AP spent is about the same.

I would vote Keep on lowering the AP to Stand to 1 and getting rid of Ankle Grab. As I have said before, Ankle Grab was just a bad band aid fix and as it is now the 10 AP to Stand only hurts newbies in a ridiculous manner, and means nothing to the older players.--Zombie Lord 11:11, 31 May 2009 (BST) Keep Ankle Grab and lower the default stand up cost to 5 so you have 1/6 & 5/10, better for the newbies and experienced players don't get affected keeping them happy... --Kamikazie-Bunny 20:20, 31 May 2009 (BST)

I fixed up your suggestion a little to make it a bit clearer. I don't think your going to have any luck getting rid of Ankle Grab. Bad skill or not (and it could stand to be "fixed"), people aren't going to like having it taken away (refunding the XP or not). So you'd probably do better to go with the 5 AP cost version. This has also been suggested before and didn't make it to Peer Review, so you might want to slog through Peer Rejected and Undecided.--Pesatyel 00:00, 1 June 2009 (BST)

Okay, I'll probably suggest this. If anyone got anything to say, say it as quickly as possible. The suggestion will be that all you do is that you lower the stand up cost to five. --Rolfero 16:24, 6 June 2009 (BST)

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Dupe voters

Your votes aren't valid because there is arguably a significant enough difference. Requiring a skill and not. Although that is arguable.--Mr. Angel, Help needed? 19:35, 9 June 2009 (BST)

I agree! --Rolfero 19:39, 9 June 2009 (BST)

My vote is perfectly valid. I argue that the difference between the two suggestions is negligible, at best. That's perfectly legit and it's precedented and I've seen suggestions with bigger differences duped. Note that I have taken no steps to remove the Suggestion, because I understood when making my vote that others might disagree... so I left it open for discussion. --WanYao 19:51, 9 June 2009 (BST)

"Your votes aren't valid [...] although that is arguable." I agree. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 20:48, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Dupe Or Not?

The members of this wiki that are voting dupe on this suggestion, becuase of Sweir's suggestion (which suggested that the skill Vigour Mortis would allow people to stand up for 5AP). Would these votes count or not? Please discuss below. --Rolfero 23:07, 9 June 2009 (BST)

What do you mean, "would these votes count or not?" Every numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped vote counts. --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 23:17, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Okay, sorry, rephrase: Does this suggestion count as a dupe? What does you think? (Sorry, I'm very tired. Very. And my mobilephone keeps calling. And my back hurts. Goodnight.) --Rolfero 23:20, 9 June 2009 (BST)

Chill out. There's no clear cut consensus, or even clear majority opinion, yet. Dupes aren't always cut and dry decisions, and when there is controversy over the dupe-status, the suggestion is usually allowed to remain until (if) a consensus or clear majority position is acheived. Hence, for now, your suggestion isn't officially duped. --WanYao 00:02, 10 June 2009 (BST)

At least until Iscariot shows up and forcibly cycles it. Pfft. ;c --Bob Boberton ^{TF / DW} 00:05, 10 June 2009 (BST)