User talk:Sarkomance

Administration notice

Please be very careful when you move stuff around on a talk page (as you did here. In this case it seemed like Boxy had said "other useless trolling..." as part of his comment. This can be seen as impersonation of another user which is generally defined as vandalism and would earn you an official warning. However, since you seem to pretty new, I'm going to let you off with a friendly explanation and I hope you take heed of this. If you do repeat this sort of behaviour, you will receive a warning next time.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me on my talk page. =) -- Cheese 14:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

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About SOS

"finally my apocalypse game blehbleh"

thank you to the carreer zombie turned pker for your comment but... but the theme is just the theme and we are talking about the game about balance fairness in the game system about a movement to gather prosurvivors to ask for it and thats supposed to be point of this topic.

MAIN SOURCE OF BALANCE PROBLEMS : CARREER ZOMBIES* RULE THE GAME. (*CZ for short) In the following 18 sections we have a typical example of whats wrong...
as everytime some player not on their side tries to speak,
the eternal band of the same carreer zombie players
either jump on him or flood, troll and mock.
Almost the whole page was filled by the negative comments,
from just a bunch of those guys.

Below you will see in their articles many attempts of diversions from CZ to keep their grip on the game: shall I mimic?
"you dont like ? then go play another game oh Left4Dead a high end computer action game"
"you think its unbalanced? you are wrong period go check elsewhere,
go there ->operation bandaid but oh no dont talk about any change in game balance system,
Its our prerogative ! Only we do have the right !
When we do, its because we dediced it was unbalanced !
We couldnt exterminate evryone and force them to play as zombie
and we kept 'rebalancing' the game during years
because we have decided its the goal of the game that everyone dies till server reset
but if YOU try to ask for anything else than us then you are a whiner
so shut up and role play my zombie's food properly or move"

Unfortunately, the same phenomenon appears in suggestions page
none of the suggestions that could result in a relief for real survivor players can pass,
all ideas are bared by the same guys, how long urban dead will belong to carreer zombies?
Its a vicious circle, In one of the following articles a carreer zombie will troll about "Some Additional Suggestions"
a list of the most stupid suggestions they found supposedly proposed by survivors
and showing how they are against "do nots" rules, those werent adopted anyway,
but no they dont talk about all the prozombies updates that were actually adopted,
that amost all infringes all the same do nots rules.
They impose how they want this game to be an extermination simulation.

When people try and ask for something else, more open ended (doesnt mean that we already know that everyones will die just by looking at the game system) most answers come from pkers and careers zombies and their "survivors" alts : mainly condescending insults or harassment.
When any other real pro survivor witness how things are going they are disgruntled, then they see they cant ask alone for any change then they prefer to pass their way they leave Urban Dead behind and its really too bad. this thread wasnt intended to gather the comments of some carreer zombies as only feedback. this thread was an attempt to get an echo from the other prosurvivors who happen to use the wiki...Apparently less and less real pro survivors still only career zombies and their alts thats how Urban Dead community looks today. If any other player would enjoy a more balanced game its maybe time to ask here.

So far very few comments from the pro survivors, how many still here? how many do read the wiki?
And when I say pro survivors, I mean the real ones, not those who have just a survivor alt, and main character as zombie or pker...
Not those who stopped to play a survivor, just because "it wasnt fun to play that kind of character" but took the time to ask for changes when it was for zombies.

How would you like that someone plays for just the sake of being Carreers Zombies'food ? Pro survivors are those who want to make things more enjoyable to play as a survivor, I mean playing survivor ON THE LONG RUN with same rights than zombie players. Not just being keels or slaves for zombies big bash games. The right to play the style they like, to play for fun when they like, with fair rules that dont give such incredible advantages to zombies !

Not like a single brainrotted zombie which can threaten forever an area and succeed in staying there even if it was against an infinite number of survivors.

Not like a ministack of 10 zeds can crush any barricade even when made by 150+ peeps and kill them during their sleep (which has dramatical consequences in maps such as Borehamwood and Monroeville).

Not like bullet sponge zombies with 3000 potential hitpoints per day...

Not like 10ap to ruin and free damages over time for zombies and then 3 digits ap repairs or even more (no cap) for survivors

Not like with such enormous difference concerning death between survivors and zombies it was introduced since the very beginning of the game and still greatly advantages zombies.

No way ! unfair rules dont make the game more exciting for survivors ! they just make the game more stressful and more frustrating !

Is there any real pro survivor that thinks like me still around?

Is there a survivor that would like that their efforts be rewarded not weeks of rebuildings healing putting genies radios etc that need constant care all ruined so easily overnight in same time as being killed and forced to play zombie sometimes for weeks for some. Is there a survivor that dont like to know that all will be lost anyway, who wants a more interesting open ended game like where "survivors and zombies fight for the control of Malton" not just a lame evryone-dies-everytime-then-server-reset-game I mean not just a simulation where we cant change anything because dices are loaded after evrytime survivors find original new tactics - because they did yes they did so far- but everytime carreer zombies whined AND THEY GOT THEIR GAME UPDATES exmples: survivors win using barricade strafing, carrier zombies whine they get ruins updates. survivors like the big prick win in some areas using crazy revive tactics, carreer zombies whine and they get the tenfold AP cost for using syringues. they didnt only complain for the headshot xp decrease, which was, I agree, the only inacceptable update for zombie players Still, there are things that are completely unfun when playing survivors which are:

CHARACTER DEATH IS INEVITABLE TOO EASY TO HAPPEN AND BEING FORCED TO PLAY AS ZOMBIE FOR LONG TIME With the very 4 first Urban Dead stronger groups being large zombie hordes, with many other zombies, deathcults pkers and even with dual nature that will often work longer for zombies side (nothing new either : dying is easier than getting revived) there are lots of zombies evrywhere but they also have zounds of spies and sympathizers. You cant fight them you cant hide from them either: you can only die from them. Unlike many other games that have either one of those protections : your character doesnt stay online while you offline, there are safe zones to go to for when when you need to be absent, there are absolutely no way to avoid death in urban dead, that wouldnt be a problem if survivor werent so seriously penalized by deah and only them. With current conditions you are 90% sure to die no matter how good or lucky you are, but nothing is less sure that you can get a revive, and you have to rely on others and many other external factors. Zombies got brainrot updates despite nothing could force them to play as a survivor (how difficult is that to jump from a tower? ingame I mean) but almost evrything in this game forces us to play as zombie, sometimes for too long... What I'm asking for is that death being less horrible for survivors. As we seen in Borehamwood there is no reason to try and force people to play as zombies if they joined to play as a survivor, most will just stop to play their survivor character once it dies rahter than keep playing as zombie. But its unfair either that only those who want play survivors have to create a new character or to wait for sometimes weeks even monthes even when using metagame etc to be able to play again the game they like. Also its sad when you are carrying tons of syringues to not being able to use one for yourself maybe a new survivor skill. Survivors death 11 AP when ankle grab+syringue would still cost more than zombies death with headshot 7AP (or 1 AP for zombie with ankle grab normal death 11 times less)

ABERRANT INEFFICIENCY AGAINST ZOMBIES (yes mostly ap wasting) WHY NOT GET A BREAK FROM THOSE YOU KILL?
you earn exp that's it ! yes zombies get exp when they kill you too,
but I 'm here talking tactical advantages:
when you kill a zombie, that does absolutely nothing close to how useful it is when a zombie kills a survivor for zombies side (removes the "threat" from be revived by a killed survivor who even if he becomes a zker, can only tickle zombies not convert them into survivor, but a pker does decrease survivor population and increase zombies numbers).
Anyway even when you are very lucky with attacking a zombie,
you always use way more AP than the AP damage you did on enemy,
actually you are hurting your own AP (dont forget that a single kill can imply sometimes days worth of search attempts,
moveing hiding running away or cading which zombies dont need,
and healing which is less AP wasting for zombies wwith autoheal at standup, digestion)
A bullet sponge with fleshrot has potentially 3000 hitpoints per day 50*60 (no not everyone has zombie hunter skills) plus the bonus against firearms. The other alternate way, which is reviving, doesnt help at all against deathcult pkers and brainrotted hordes. Come on, is there any real survivor out there that would like to finaly get rid for a few days from the same gker pker deathcult long headshotted zombie pest, that keeps making victims all the time anyway by kicking the freak's butt away? Dont worry there will still be plenty of other zombies rushing in but it would still be more enjoyable to kick for real.

NO MATTER HOW WELL "DEFENDED" IS AN AREA ZOMBIES KEEP STACKING UP The result from this inability from survivors of getting rid of agressors even when they have way more allies in the area is that zombies have no surprises about the succes of what they do.
It will always succeed: they can just come and stack up till they crush evrything,
as nothing repels them, nothing prevent them to accumulate,
till the critical ammount of zombies is reached and every house breached.
Zombies tactics would be more important and useful to them and the strategy aspects more interesting and they would be able to claim victory for real victories finding weaknesses and striking soft spots not just a stackup any target anywhere and bash at hour x:00 game.

For killing a zombie being any use just kick away zombies when they are killed either after attacking a survivor or cades or inside buildings or killed on a block with doors. A succesful kick moves the dead zombie at least 3 burbs away (when applicable) with a temporary weakness status to recover from death sort of negative Bonus-To-Hit so that he cant efficiently surprise attack where he lands (always lands on open areas like streets parks etc like a spawn place for a zombie starter). After standing up zombie still can move, death rattle, gesture, do other actions normally during recovery time. We can imagine some description as : "You die and your corpse is sent to be incinerated in a distant facility by the cleanup patrols. On the road, you slip out of the truck unnoticed and you fall on the ground. The truck is now far away. You feel ichty and weak but its just a matter of time. You will need 24 hours to recover fully. During that time you can do all actions normally but your attacks on survivors and barricades will be less accurate" Going with this there should be a new zombie skill that allow zombies to communicate on wider range or at least to show their new position to allies. Note that killing zombies idling in streets park or cemetaries or other open areas wont kick them away or give any weakness penalty (unless they just agressed someone) to prevent any unecessary griefing.
This will reward survivors when they are victorious with a little break to at least recover from the zombies attacks and a little time for healing repairing and replaceing used items, which is hard to obtain with current system where zombies can just keep attacking and survivors cant keep doing things very long because they run out of evrything. This zombie recovery system is still faster than what we observe for some survivors waiting for a revive during weeks.
This also preserves the freedom of movement and interraction of the zombie.
When there is an update to relieve survivors from the harsh death penalty,
maybe the death of zombies could too have less effects like less recovery time. As a result there will be zombies everywhere maybe with a more equal distribution, zombies wont just keep stacking up whatever happens. With new means of communications added zombies players will meet new allies and find new tactics and still be able to attack where they are the least expected.

CADES ARE SO NERFED THAT ONLY 3 LUCKY ZOMBIES CAN DESTROY THE BEST AVAILABLE PROTECTIONS About barricades too, when there is more than 1 zombies attacking your VSB cades might break during your sleep so ok its easier to make VSB than to bash them but there are often more than 1 zombie around, you would like to put at least to EHB which too isnt that great: 2 lucky zombies bash it 60AP, 4zombies+ more easily, 6+ you are dead if you dont wake up very early and check. Cades are essential because the consequences of death for survivors are enormous, but they still have to sleep and be defenceless appart from the very few minutes they are active. Try and make decent cades EHB or+ then you will see how frequent, you dont find any place to put things in cades. Like in do nots suggestion there is an imagine things with increasing numbers: the result of nerfing cades building success to extremely hard will result of malls with 100 peeps defended by a cade that can barely resist to 10 zombies while whole mall occupants are sleeping defenceless (they can all be from same country). With just 30 zombies you can keep making dozens victims on malls defended by hundreds of people and they cant do anything to prevent it appart from never sleeping in real!

So cade maximum possible levels should be higher and not with the so high failing rate for cading over VHB (and if you keep the no cap in repair ap cost with ruins then no cap with cades it will still be unbalanced in favor of zombies since they dont use any ap for unlimited free ap draining damage attack with 100% of success rate), or else there should be a temporary defending bonus less % to hit for agressors according to the number of defenders inside a building with a cap off course. no defenders no extra bonus, highly crowded buildings will be likely to defend better. Cades were introduced to balance with zombies immortality but unfortunately they are easily avoided and even sometimes used against survivors which wasnt their purpose: for ruining a building there should be no cade left or can enter ruined building even caded. Please understand that survivors players dont want to spend 24hours/24 7 days/7 to watch their cades and that even when there are lots of characters inside of a mall, their owners are for most of them online just a few minutes in a day; thus the sitting duck phenomemon when they are all slaughtered by a handful of pkers that can take their time and even read poems.

Two other nice features that would prevent survivors getting killed too easily during their sleep in safehouses would be that we consider that there are guards asking for visitors to hand over their weapons before entering above a certain cade level (actually nothing is modified in equipements its just no hostile attacks can be completed between occupants in a well defended area with high cades, when hostile pkers want to raid a building they just kill the sentinels and enter by force its symbolized by destroying part of the cades till its VSB) and that when people die from infection inside a building and then stand up as zombie it moves them outside. Areas claimed by large number of survivors will finally be able to defend against a mere dozen zeds and yes still areas where there are majority of zombies will be dangerous but at least safehouses will deserve their name and it finally will bring game system that is relatively more addapted to an asynchronous game. No one wants to have to check all the day to be sure that they dont die in a survivor controlled area and behind maximum security barricades just because 3zeds can squat forever around.

THE UNDERRATED SKILLS AND CHARACTERS Fortunately there were some people below who also noticed that. While zombies get exp just by destroying the hard work of survivors, which is relatively useful to their cause but not that much (gennies radios), survivors didnt earn a single point of EXP for all that work, like using days worth of AP for finding gennies radio, fuel cans, setting them, to help and make the search rates decent for everything else THEY NEED, and we are talking about exp in one side for a few ap (zombies) and no exp on the other side for many more ap (survivors). Sorry, its not always fun to be the mama that builds sand casttles during hours for baby zombie to bash it everytime and why does only spoiled baby zombie get goodies? Same way, while zombies get EXP ransacking, then got a free damage over time bonus (that is against do nots rules too) they also got EXP for a bunch of AP when bashing cades, survivors who build and repair cades get 0 EXP, besides they helping way more than the trenchies wasting their time and ammo on a loner zombie idling outside in a park, its true that this game mechanisms encourage stupidity ! If that goes on that way will we soon get EXP for jumping from towers? :P Repairing ruins for three digit AP (several days worth of AP) for 1XP isnt very enjoyable either and yes its completely crazy that its an free infinite AP boost against suvivors there should be a cap ! Some zombie sympathizers alleged that's because survivors are bad and cant reclaim back buildings in time, but they know how its impossible for a zombie horde (with most of those being brainrotted or pkers on their breathing time) to be repelled unless it wants to move elsewhere, and even when it moves, it always leaves guards that despite eating their headshots still stay and kill and ransack forever without being removed from the area and then call back the horde. Also its worthless to suicide repairing en masse in a horde infested area they would just stand up munch brains and ransack and no one anymore would be left to repair again for long time. The problem we are talking about is not how players do play, its about why do game mechanisms have a so big disproportion in both penalties costs and rewards favoring zombies in a game where there are also survivors players too, survivors too deserve less frustrations and at least the same fun than zombie players !

sorry for the big unformatted post big post I'll edit it --Sarkomance 22:52, 19 December 2008 (UTC)