Suggestion:20090310 Direction With Most Group Groans

20090310 Direction With Most Group Groans

A Big F'ing Dog 15:19, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion type
Improvement

Suggestion scope
Feeding Groan

Suggestion description
This suggestion is an improvement to feeding groan to allow hordes of zombies to stick together, and find each other around the city, without metagaming.

Upon logging in, zombies in groups would get a message informing them of the direction of the suburb that in the past few hours had the most feeding groans from members of their group, like this:

You heard the faint sound of many familiar groans far to the northeast. (several suburbs away)

You heard the faint sound of many familiar groans close to the south. (one or two suburbs away)

The sound of many familiar groans echo around you. (your current suburb)

Right now there are three kinds of zombie groups. Traveling metagamers, localized defenders, and ones that adopt a group label without any overall strategy. The first uses forums to jointly attack targets all around the city, the second is a suburb garrison, and the last is for a feral zombie that likes the group's ideology or image. This improvement would allow a fourth group, the wandering horde. A wandering horde doesn't have a precise target like a mall, nor a single suburb to defend, it drifts across the city as individual members move towards light and groans, laying waste to all in its path. It's a collective democracy, whichever way most individual zombies choose to go, that's where the group center moves to.

This isn't to say anything is wrong with metagaming or the other group types, this just expands a zombie's options from three to four.

Time for realism issues! As to how zombies can hear groans beyond the normal range, my reasoning that is if zombies can hear close groans well enough to know precisely where they're from, there should be a greater area where they get a vague direction but nothing precise. I assume Malton has an eerie background sound of thousands of vague distant groans, this ability just acknowledges that zombies can recognize their group in that melange.

Voting Section

Voting Rules

Votes must be numbered, justified, signed, and timestamped. # justification ~~~~ Votes that do not conform to the above may be struck by any user.

The only valid votes are Keep, Kill, Spam or Dupe. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

Keep Votes

1. Keep With this skill a horde of zombies would attack a neighborhood until there were few survivors left. Individual members would wander out in different directions, but eventually the entire group would be drawn to wherever had the most prey. A horde would be kind of like one giant organism in a way. You'd have the giant mass of zombies in the center, and exploring zombies branching out from it like tentacles. The body would be drawn to whichever direction had the most groans. --A Big F'ing Dog 15:20, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
2. Keep An interesting idea, it would certainly allow an active and effective zombie group to exist without taking part in the metagame. Allowing casual zombies to join active groups, and eventually join (or form) a metagame group. --Lord Evans 00:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
   • Re' The three group types often overlap in any one group. This could also help existing groups stick together, with a combination of metagaming and distant groans. I could envision a group where the members collectively determined the overall area the group was in, with leaders using forums and wiki pages to recommend targets and coordinate strikes within that area. --A Big F'ing Dog 02:35, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
3. Keep – I like this. Plausible, not overly specific (suburb/direction, not specific buildings), and would make cohesive "cat-herding" more managable using only ingame tools. ᚱᛁᚹᛖᚾᚨᚾᛏ 12:09, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
4. Keep - in game com ftw.--xoxo 12:27, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
5. Keep - Potentially a very good addition to the game, making intricate metagaming less essential. --Papa Moloch 15:44, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
6. Strong Keep - Could make it a lot more fun to be a zombie as a casual player. --Johnny Bass 15:59, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
7. V.Weak Keep - Handy for people who join large non-mg groups and with small groups it extends their range. --Kamikazie-Bunny 11:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
8. Keep - This would be a nice counterpart for radio communication by survivors, which allows survivors to communicate from corner to corner... I don't see why we can't have a means of medium-distance coordination for zombies in-game, as well.--Drugsanimudongs 19:00, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
9. Keep - More ingame comm is always good. Too many people can't metagame for various reasons. -- Grogh 22:14, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
10. Keep/Change - I like the idea overall, but I think Extropymine it right. Instead of having an passive line showing up in the recent activity log it should be an active skill from the scent tree. As a groan how does it know when to trigger the message? A certain amount of groans? If it's an extension of Scent Death it can be another button on the interface. .. Cannon1001 17:00, 12 March 2009 (EST)

Kill Votes

1. Kill You only had this on Developing Suggestions for 2 days. That's hardly enough time to really get into why this won't work. But briefly, if you can't hear FG while inside it hardly makes sense that you could hear it a suburb away. I can't even get into the flaws with "branching out and drawing the rest of the horde" --– Nubis ^NWO 15:35, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

   Re My counterargument to that is that messages in this game aren't about what your character can actually hear or see logically, but about what is useful to you as a player. Is it logical that a moan audible six blocks away can't be heard inside a building right across the street? Of course not. It's just that you lose that precise sense of direction, so it is no longer useful to the player and the game doesn't inform you about it. And likewise, if a zombie can pinpoint the exact origin of a sound six blocks away, does that mean they magically hear NOTHING when its seven blocks away? Perhaps this should have a range limitation, which could be a few suburbs so a zombie can't hear a sound literally from the other side of the city. But since we've established zombies have keener senses than humans, in this fantasy there's no limit to what a zombie's actual abilities could be. Since humans can hear feeding groans six blocks away, if a zombie's abilities were merely as good as a dog's (who can hear 4x farther than humans) that should mean they could hear something from as far as 24 blocks. Perhaps their senses are better. And, IMO two days is a fairly long time, long enough to post a one sentence comment I'm sure. --A Big F'ing Dog 15:46, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

2. Kill/Change - The basic idea is good, but making it for groups only seems odd. Like you said, Malton has an eerie background of thousands of vague distant groans, and while recognising a direction isn't too big of a stretch, recognising specific moans from such a distance is. --LaosOman 20:56, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
   • Re Zombies can already recognize groans from group members as "familiar groans". This just applies that same ability to more distant sounds. --A Big F'ing Dog 21:18, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
     • Re: Hearing familiar groans over the distance of several suburbs is where the problem is. Recognising familiar groans, sure. Hearing groans from a long distance, fair enough. It's the combination I dislike. --LaosOman 18:52, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
3. Kill - as LaosOman and its rushed--Athur birling 22:03, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
4. Kill - More than one suburb is unnecessary. By the time you've traveled to 'several suburb away' zombie group, and regenerated AP, they would have most likely moved on.D^ANCED^ANCER^EVOLUTION (TALK | CONTRIBS) 23:49, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
   • Re But remember, the zombie group (unless supplemented by metagaming) doesn't have a specific destination. So it won't move quickly and purposefully, but creep in whichever direction has more targets, only moving on when the current territory is ruined. A full day's AP is 50 spaces, enough to cross five suburbs! You'd easily be able to catch up. Also, if the range was just twenty spaces or so, how would you ever find your group again if you went on vacation? Or went exploring in the direction the group ultimately decided against? --A Big F'ing Dog 13:53, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
5. Kill - More than 2 or 3 suburbs away seems a bit too much. --ZsL 15:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
6. Weak Kill/Change - I just can't get behind zombie super-hearing. If this were a "scent" skill ("the familiar smell of death is strongest to the South" or something) I'd be more likely to buy into it. But hearing a groan 5 suburbs away, no. ~ extropymine ^{Talk | NW | 4Corners} 17:39, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
7. Kill - I don't like the idea of giving zombies super senses. --Turtleboy412 ^{Talk! In game} 21:19, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Spam/Dupe Votes

---

Voting Rules

Current Suggestions Advice to Suggesters Adding options to your suggestion is not good practice. Others will not vote on the options, only the main body; please don't ask them to do so. Once you have posted your suggestion, it is considered complete. Altering the suggestion mechanics after voting has begun nullifies existing votes, and is considered an abuse of the suggestions system. Doing so will result in your suggestion being removed from the voting system to removed suggestions, where you can work out the details and resubmit later if you desire. It is preferred that you remove your own suggestion and resubmit a new version with changes, if changes are needed. "Notes" added for clarification purposes, and correcting spelling/typos are permitted. When considering adding a clarification note, it is often better for all parties involved, for the author to remove the suggestion and resubmit it with the clarification included for the voters who have already placed their votes. Advice to Voters You are voting on Suggestions, not Users. The text of your vote should not personally attack or denigrate the user who has submitted it... no matter how ridiculous the idea. Flaming and/or Trolling will not be tolerated. Before voting please read the Suggestions Dos and Do Nots and Frequently Suggested Ideas Page to read about concepts that have been generally considered unworkable in the past. You do not need to follow the guidelines on these pages but they are worth consideration before casting a vote. One vote per user. No exceptions. You cannot use multiple wiki accounts to vote on a suggestion. To Vote, use the [edit] button at the top of the voting section, then enter your vote in the the proper format to the end of the relevant section (keep/kill/spam). It is strongly recommended that voters (especially in the kill/spam sections) justify their vote to help others understand the reason they disagree. Feedback helps new suggesters get a feel for what the community does and does not want included in Urban Dead, and a deeper understanding of the balance needed for a workable suggestion. Votes must include a signature in order to be considered valid votes. To sign a vote, use --~~~~. Please remember to sign your votes! Unsigned votes will be deleted after 30 minutes or when found. Each Suggestion will be open to voting for two (2) weeks, measured from the suggestion's Timestamp, unless it is a Dupe or Spam. If, at the end of that time, there are two thirds (2/3) more Keep votes than Kill votes, the Suggestion will be moved to the Peer Reviewed Suggestions page. Otherwise, the Suggestion will be moved to the Peer Rejected Suggestions page.

Rules for Discussions Votes are NOT the place to discuss Suggestions. This page and archived suggestion pages only to be used for the Suggesting and subsequent Voting of these suggestions. If you wish to discuss the suggestion or vote here, please use this page's Talk page (Suggestion talk:20090310 Direction With Most Group Groans). Suggestions do not have to be submitted in order to discuss them. Developing Suggestions can be used to workshop possible suggestions before they are submitted.

Valid Votes Keep, for Suggestions that you believe have merit. Kill, for Suggestions that you believe do not have merit. If you need to discuss a rule fix, use the discussion page. Spam, for the most ridiculous suggestions. Suggestions can be removed with Spam votes as described on the cycling suggestions page. If the criterion described there are not fulfilled, the suggestion must remain for the whole two weeks. Spam votes are not a "strong kill", they are simply here to prevent the utterly ridiculous from clogging up the system. If you do not like the idea, and it's not some crazy uber power or something else ridiculous, VOTE KILL, NOT SPAM. Spam votes will be counted as Kill when votes are tallied. Dupe, for Suggestions that are exact or very close duplicates of previous suggestions. For a Dupe vote to be valid, a link must be provided to the original suggestion. Dupe votes can be used to remove suggestions as described on the cycling suggestions page. Dupe votes will not be counted when votes are tallied. Humourous, for suggestions that are obviously intended to be satirical, or of comedic value only.}} Suggestions can be removed with Humourous votes as described on the cycling suggestions page. If the criterion described there are not fulfilled, the suggestion must remain for the whole two weeks.

Invalid Votes Server Load and Programming Complexity are NOT very good Kill reasons. You are voting on the merit of the suggestion and whether or not you think it belongs in the game. Server load/complexity issues are up to Kevan to decide. X should be implemented first is not a valid reason for a vote. You are voting on the merit of THIS suggestion, not how it compares to others. Votes that do not have reasoning behind them are invalid. You MUST justify your vote.

Comments Re may be used to comment on a vote. Only the original author and the person being REd can comment. Comments are restricted to a single comment per vote, and it is expected that Re comments be as short as possible. Reing every kill vote is considered abuse of the Re comment. A Re does not count as a vote, and any subsequent discussion not part of the Re comment should be held on the discussion page if there is any extended commenting. Note is used by System Operators to invalidate trolling-based votes. Only Sysops may remove troll-based votes and they do so with a strikeout <s></s> in order to preserve the trolling removal for posterity. The voter may contest the strikeout with the Sysop that struck their vote out on the discussion page. Only a System Operator may remove a strikeout.

All Caps Try to avoid YELLING, writing in bold, or using italics, except when emphasizing a point which has escaped other voters.

VOTING EXAMPLES Keep Votes Keep - I am the author and I am allowed to vote once on my own suggestions. --MrSuggester 05:01, 11 Nov 2005 (GMT) Keep - Best. Suggestion. Evar. --Bob_Zombie 04:01, 11 Nov 2005 (GMT) Keep - Good sugestion. no signature --FakeSuggester 07:39, 15 Nov 2005 (GMT) Kill Votes Kill - This is a terrible idea, but you can totally fix it up. --NegativeGal 06:01, 12 Nov 2005 (GMT) Re - Please be more specific about how to fix it on the discussion page. --MrSuggester 14:01, 12 Nov 2005 (GMT) Re - Sure, I have detailed my proposed fixes here. --NegativeGal 23:38, 12 Nov 2005 (GMT) Kill - You will eat my poopie and love it! --PooEater 11:12, 13 Nov 2005 (GMT) Note - Inane vote removed. Defend in discussion. --DaModerator 11:13, 13 Nov 2005 (GMT) Spam/Dupe Votes Spam - Kung Fu CB Mama on Wheels is an inappropriate Survivor Class. --NoFunAtAll 09:01, 12 Nov 2005 (GMT) Dupe - Duplicate Suggestion --AnotherSuggester 05:01, 14 Nov 2005 (GMT)