UDWiki talk:Administration/Policy Discussion/Homophobia as Vandalism
Please discuss your thoughts on this policy before voting takes place, and please add your thoughts as to what the scope of the policy should cover. For my own two cents, though, this policy has been sorely needed for a long time, as the double standard in what is and isn't vandalism hate speech is ridiculous. 
01:50, 22 May 2010 (BST)
- Glad to see someone finally suggested a policy of this nature. -Poodle of DoomM!
T 02:52, 22 May 2010 (BST)
At this point I'm against this. Why is this necessary? To what level should it be implemented? Will I get escalated for calling someone a faggot or retard, in the same way I would call them, an idiot or a dipshit? Even in the case of the word "faggot" in the way Sonny uses it, even as a past target of this homophobic rant (1) never have I considered it offensive or even vandalistic. And even so, it's just obvious he's just fishing for any sort of reaction, and this policy is exactly the sort of stuff that would make him feel accomplished. It's been a long-term saying on the wiki that "this is the internet and if you can't handle what is said here then you're best off leaving the computer forever".
Seeing as how the "racism" clause of the TOU was only ever implemented as vandalism because wiki lawyers wanted to rid of certain users, I find it hard to believe that this policy, in this state, would make anything more clear-cut and will a) turn the wiki into a verbal pussyfest and b) create a huge amount of conflict of interests from the sysop team as wikilawyers will literally POUNCE on anything slightly offensive to any demographic, as long as it was said by someone they don't like. This has already happened recently with WOOT vs Misanthropy, straight after we got someone else for vandalism and the backlash was a pain in the arse and only excusable because Sonny was a known/failing troll (that's how I deal with it anyway). If you pass this policy, prepare for much, much more of that. --
03:33, 22 May 2010 (BST)
- I'm aware that there's bound to be ways for this policy to be used to target people, as there are for any policy adding vandal clauses. Hell, as you pointed out, I've been on the recieving end of it. But I fail to see why we should just allow this kind of harrassment to the community to be something we're powerless over. Yes, you and I can shrug it off and go "fuck it, it's words on the internet", but if someone else would rather it chased up once they're on the recieving end of it, it's their choice not to let it wash over them, not ours. We shouldn't be telling the community to "man up" and ignore any and all hate speech thrown at them, and when they choose not to ignore it, we shouldn't be caught with our thumbs up our asses just because we're afraid of some petulant child throwing a tantrum over being punished. 03:50, 22 May 2010 (BST)
- What are you talking about with "harrassment to the community to be something we are powerless over?" You make it seem like this is actually a problem. All I see is one little idiot troll coming on UDWiki once every 2 months, spurting homo insults to anyone he comes in contact with (not even targeting actual homosexuals) and then the community look down on the two people (thad and maybe POD, give or take) who actually QQ about it. This isn't even a problem, and if it is, take Sonny to Vandal Banning now for (which you coined yourself) harassment, which there is a clause for in the guidelines. The flak you get for that will pale in comparison for the long term flak the ops will have to cop for this if it passes. -- 05:27, 22 May 2010 (BST)
- And also, if this is simply about homophobia, as the title suggests, then make it about homophobia instead of adding simple things like "but not excluding other such forms" and other sections which will give the lawyers a field day. You need to decide whether this is going to be about homophobia or everything discriminatory, not appear to be the former but actually the latter. -- 05:33, 22 May 2010 (BST)
- What are you talking about with "harrassment to the community to be something we are powerless over?" You make it seem like this is actually a problem. All I see is one little idiot troll coming on UDWiki once every 2 months, spurting homo insults to anyone he comes in contact with (not even targeting actual homosexuals) and then the community look down on the two people (thad and maybe POD, give or take) who actually QQ about it. This isn't even a problem, and if it is, take Sonny to Vandal Banning now for (which you coined yourself) harassment, which there is a clause for in the guidelines. The flak you get for that will pale in comparison for the long term flak the ops will have to cop for this if it passes. -- 05:27, 22 May 2010 (BST)
While I agree that Sonny's rants are uncalled for, I'm not entirely certain that a policy of this nature is the way to go about it. As DDR points out, some of your wording is extremely vague and begging for abuse. If harassment is already a clause in vandalism policy (I honestly have not read through it, so I don't know), then this policy change is entirely unnecessary. --Maverick Talk - OBR 
404 06:21, 22 May 2010 (BST)
- I think I may have worded the phrase poorly, I'll admit. I'm actually very sure it isn't in any polices specifically, however, harassment as vandalism has been around in extreme cases I believe, and today's sysops have already expressed that they would be willing to rule vandalism on harassment if it occurred (to save this being said out of context, it was regarding the way I and others were bothering Cornholioo), so I don't see, if users are willing to claim Sonny's stuff as harassment, why we should enact an entire policy for it... Generally, if it should be vandalism, it can be. Policies don't have to be made for stuff like this if the sysop team are headstrong about it, and it's best if such policies aren't made, if they are retroactively being made simply because of one user. -- 07:25, 22 May 2010 (BST)
