Difference between revisions of "UDWiki:Administration/Policy Discussion/Reduce Minimum Edits For Bureaucrat Promotion"

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{{Policy Document|Reduce Minimum Edits For Bureaucrat Promotion}} {{protect}}
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This line of text from [[A/BP]]
 
This line of text from [[A/BP]]
 
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#Make it so. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>00:33, 14 June 2014 (UTC)</sub>
 
#Make it so. ~[[Image:Vsig.png|link=User:Vapor]] <sub>00:33, 14 June 2014 (UTC)</sub>
 
#'''For''' for the great oooglie booglie says so... --[[User:Conndraka|Conndraka]]<sup>[[User_talk:Conndraka|T]][[AZM]] [[Coalition for Fair Tactics|''CFT'']]</sup> 01:12, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 
#'''For''' for the great oooglie booglie says so... --[[User:Conndraka|Conndraka]]<sup>[[User_talk:Conndraka|T]][[AZM]] [[Coalition for Fair Tactics|''CFT'']]</sup> 01:12, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
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# {{User:Linkthewindow/Sig}} 10:27, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
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# Yarp. -- {{User:Krazy_Monkey/sig}} 16:56, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
  
 
===Against===
 
===Against===
#'''Absolutely not''' - Bob failed his recent A/RE for being totally inactive for 3 months, he literally could have been dead but under this policy he would be eligible for bureaucrat voting, and then even be inactive for a further month as a crat before facing immediate demotion. We surely need a minimum of 1 edit per month to clarify that sysops still have access to their accounts before putting them up for voting for crat. Inactive sysops aren't harmful, inactive crats are, and bureaucrat voting is the only process where abuse of the system is easily administered. And ironically, the quieter the wiki the worse it is, as it's easier for abuse to occur. Don't allow sysops who literally can't even reply to messages on their talk page (or breath, for that matter) access to a bureaucrat spot. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 02:25, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
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#'''Absolutely not''' - Bob failed his recent A/RE for being totally inactive for 3 months, he literally could have been dead but under this policy he would be eligible for bureaucrat voting, and then even be inactive for a further month as a crat before facing immediate demotion. We surely need a minimum of 1 edit per month to clarify that sysops still have access to their accounts before putting them up for voting for crat. Inactive sysops aren't harmful, inactive crats are, and bureaucrat voting is the only process where abuse of the system is easily administered. And ironically, the quieter the wiki the worse it is, as it's easier for abuse to occur. Don't allow sysops who literally can't even reply to messages on their talk page (or breathe, for that matter) access to a bureaucrat spot. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 02:25, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
#:I could be the one who is reading it wrong, but wouldn't this proposal just put relatively-inactive sysops up as candidates for an emptied 'crat seat, but not immediately install them as such? I see what you mean about potential abuse, but I believe if people don't want to put an already sort-of-inactive sysop up as a 'crat, they won't vote for said candidate. --{{User:Chirurgien/Signature2.3}} 02:40, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
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#:<small>[[UDWiki_talk:Administration/Policy_Discussion/Reduce_Minimum_Edits_For_Bureaucrat_Promotion#Discussion_on_DDR.27s_vote|Discussion moved to talk page]] --'''<span style="font-family:monospace; background-color:#222222">[[User:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime"> Spiderzed</span>]][[User talk:Spiderzed|<span style="color:Lime">▋</span>]]</span>''' 12:34, 14 June 2014 (UTC)</small>
#::Of course you're right, they won't get immediately put in. But because of the crat election's theoretical (and historical, [[UDWiki:Administration/Sysop Archives/Suicidalangel/2009-02-21 Bureaucrat Promotion#Suicidal_Angel|1]] [[UDWiki:Administration/Sysop Archives/Grim s/2008-06-22 Bureaucrat Promotion#Grim_s|2]] [[UDWiki:Administration/Sysop_Archives/DanceDanceRevolution/2010-10-18_Bureaucrat_Promotion#DanceDanceRevolution|3]] [[UDWiki:Administration/Sysop_Archives/Revenant/2011-05-15_Bureaucrat_Promotion#Revenant|4]]) connotations with voting abuse, why provide totally inactive accounts the opportunity? In the past year, not one current sysop other than Boxy (and spiderzed, for 3 days) has ''not'' made ''one'' edit in a month. In practice, that restriction seems to solve the fears of the above voters, and my own at the same time. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 02:57, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
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#:::Oh dear. I can see the cause for concern given those. I'm not quite sure the wiki still has that many active users to pull similar stunts/abuse. The proposal (as I read it) does not seem to explicitly or implicitly allow for prospective candidates that would certainly never return to the wiki (it's still subject to the 4 month clause, iirc.) At least, someone is sure to still have the keys to the ship, but I fear that someone who has the keys may not be present (or alive) to pass it on further. You have a valid concern about the 1 edit minimum (especially for Bob Moncrief's case - what happened to him anyway?) Still, I think people would have the discretion not to vote for someone who they feel isn't going to be able to perform their duties as a 'crat.
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#:::What I had in mind is, "What if a candidate who was presumed to be inactive ends up returning?" Do administrative actions (vandal banning, deletions, et c.) count as an 'edit' (as in the case of sysops/crats,) or is it limited to actual page edits? --{{User:Chirurgien/Signature2.3}} 04:02, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
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#::::I believe they do count as edits, as the aim is to measure inactivity. And regarding your issue with having enough active users to pull off this abuse, the point is that they aren't active. The above examples are a demonstration of meatpuppetry in action, by users who are not contributing members of the wiki. While I have no issue with meatpuppetry in these circumstances, it's a definite possibility that an inactive account could be promoted this way. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 04:18, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
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#:So, just to clarify, less than 1 edit wouldn't result in a demotion from 'crat, but it would mean not being a valid 'crat candidate? {{User:Aichon/Signature}} 03:42, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
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#::Sorry if I was vague, I actually do mean both of those. While I disagree mildly with both of them as separate policies, I must insist that both of them together are a terrible idea and remove any safeguard for absolutely inactive sysops to become crats for, theoretically, up to 3 months at a time, with nothing that can be done about it by anyone in the community. {{User:DanceDanceRevolution/a}} 04:18, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
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Latest revision as of 11:02, 28 June 2014

Green check.png Guidelines — Policy Document
This page is a statement of official UDWiki Policies and Rules. See Policy Discussion for policy additions and changes.
Padlock.png Administration Services — Protection.
This page has been protected against editing. See the archive of recent actions or the Protections log.

This line of text from A/BP

Rules concerning candidates
  1. All active users with the sysops status are automatically declared candidates for any vacant Bureaucrat positions.
    • Users with at least 12 edits in the 30 days before the election are considered "active" for purposes of the election.

will be changed to

Rules concerning candidates
  1. All active users with the sysops status are automatically declared candidates for any vacant Bureaucrat positions.
    • Users who are not eligible for automatic demotion by the Truly Inactive Sysops policy are considered "active" for purposes of the election.

At the same time, these lines from the Automatic Bureaucrat Cycling policy

Any Bureaucrat who goes inactive on the wiki for 1 full month will automatically be demoted back to Sysops status, and the position put up for re-election, if a replacement is deemed necessary by the wiki community.

  • A Bureaucrat that hasn't made a single edit in one month is considered as inactive and forfeits his status as bureaucrat.
  • Any Bureaucrat who goes inactive on the wiki for 1 full month will automatically be demoted back to Sysops status, and the position put up for re-election, if a replacement is deemed necessary by the wiki community.

will be struck accordingly.

Voting Section

Voting Rules
Votes must be numbered, signed, and timestamped. They can take one of two forms:
  • # comments ~~~~
    or
  • # ~~~~

Votes that do not conform to the above will be struck by a sysop.

The only valid voting sections are For and Against. If you wish to abstain from voting, do not vote.

For

  1. Oooaria raio / Oba Oba Oba / Oooaria raio / Oba Oba Oba / Mas que nada / Sai da minha frente / Eu quero passar / Pois o samba está animado / O que eu quero é sambar! -- Spiderzed 11:57, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
  2. For: The previous proposal was good, but I like this better. It seems some of the issues people have with the other proposal (apart from those who prefer minimum edits as criterion) are addressed by this iteration. --Si vis pacem, para bellum. (stalk · KT · FoD · UU) 14:02, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
  3. For - Addresses all of my concerns with the previous iteration. This one ensures that things aren't brought to a standstill if members of the admin team are present, but not active enough. We'll still likely want some additional changes on top of these, but we need to hash those out still, and this change paves the way for that discussion by clearing the slate. Aichon 15:07, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
  4. For - As someone said somewhere about this. --  AHLGTG 17:22, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
  5. Make it so. ~Vsig.png 00:33, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  6. For for the great oooglie booglie says so... --ConndrakaTAZM CFT 01:12, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
  7. Linkthewindow  Talk  10:27, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
  8. Yarp. -- Cheese 16:56, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Against

  1. Absolutely not - Bob failed his recent A/RE for being totally inactive for 3 months, he literally could have been dead but under this policy he would be eligible for bureaucrat voting, and then even be inactive for a further month as a crat before facing immediate demotion. We surely need a minimum of 1 edit per month to clarify that sysops still have access to their accounts before putting them up for voting for crat. Inactive sysops aren't harmful, inactive crats are, and bureaucrat voting is the only process where abuse of the system is easily administered. And ironically, the quieter the wiki the worse it is, as it's easier for abuse to occur. Don't allow sysops who literally can't even reply to messages on their talk page (or breathe, for that matter) access to a bureaucrat spot. A ZOMBIE ANT 02:25, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
    Discussion moved to talk page -- Spiderzed 12:34, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
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