Suggestion talk:20080127 Throwing Knives

Discussion Moved From Talk:Suggestions

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Throwing Knives

Timestamp:	Uncle Bill 03:34, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Type:	weapon
Scope:	A new way to use an old weapon.
Description:	Summary Players with the Knife Combat skill now have the option to throw knives at their opponents. This attack, if sucessful, would do double damage (4 HP instead of 2) but the knife would be lost. The hit rate and search rates for knives would be unaffected. Thrown knives would ignore flak jackets, just like they do now. Details and some fuzzy math Because a thrown knife would do the same amount of damage against a flak jacketed person as a pistol, I think it would be helpful to compare the two. You could technically kill two people a day with throwing knives, but the amount of inventory space it would eat up would probably prevent that from happening very often. Pistols will remain far more efficient, but this attack would make a nice alternative. Search Rates Knife - Mall Hardware Stores (3%/7%), Junkyards (1%), Fort Infirmaries (?%), Schools (1%?), Pubs (1%?), Motels (?%), Mall Sports Stores(?%) Pistol - Mall Gun Stores (4%/6%), Armories (3%), Police Departments (2%), Streets (1%?), Junkyards (1%?) Clip - Mall Gun Stores (8%/11%), Armories (8%), Police Departments (7%), Junkyards (1%?), Gatehouses (?%) Combat Stats Knife (normal) - Average 1 damage per AP = 50 attacks to kill a 50 HP enemy. Knife (thrown) - Average 2 damage per AP = 25 attacks to kill a 50 HP enemy (and an average of 25 knives lost, with a minimum of 13 to do the job)

Discussion (Throwing Knives)

Love it, would vote keep--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 03:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

While searching for dupes, I found one that was kind of close. PR_Skill_New:_Survivor:_Military#Knife_Throw. The main difference between Tryce of Thunder's version and mine is that his did 3 damage at 65% to hit instead of 4 and 50%. His version also required an additional skill, whereas mine would be automatic once you had knife combat (or is it knife proficiency?). --Uncle Bill 03:52, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I think this stands a good chance of getting duped, as there have been a number of suggestions about throwing things. --Pdeq^Talk* 05:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

nice. sounds good to me, but im certain that people are gona cry about something.--Themonkeyman11 04:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

It would give me a reason not to automatically throw extra knives away. BTW, can you do revisions of other people's suggestions, or only your own? --Ms.Panes 06:08, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I think you can do revisions of other peoples, although it would be prudent to get their permission first, especially if it's a recent suggestion. --Pdeq^Talk* 06:38, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't intended to be a revision. I found the August 2007 version after I had already posted this one. The two suggestions are pretty close except for the numbers. Close enough to be a dupe? Maybe Tryce should weigh in on this... --Uncle Bill 07:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Certainly not a dupe with those mechanics. Tweaking one or the other might be close enough for a dupe but removing the extra skill and changing both should make it more than sufficiently different... the only problem for me would be that i would prefer it to only do 2 damage as there is no logical reason why (or how!) it should do more when thrown. That makes em pointless though which would mean that the skill to improve accuracy would be needed to make it worthwhile. That sadly would make it a DUPE as changing the damage by just 1 point would not be enough of a change! --Honestmistake 14:27, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Next we want ninja stars! And nunchucks! And the whole nine yard! I'll kill this cause it's too ninja-ish. --•▬ ▬••▬ • •••• •▬ ▬•▬• ▬•▬ ^{#nerftemplatedsigs} 14:33, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. Many cultures throw knives as weapons - African, Middle-Eastern, heck even Native American. However, those knives are specificly made to be thrown (balance issues). The knives in UD are kitchen knives and pocket knives, which are ineffective throwing knives. At most they'd clock a zed upside the head with the force of a fist. Therefore, I'd vote kill because of the mechanics. Too bad, because I like the idea otherwise.--Actingupagain 15:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Note- walking dead? Realism freak. BoboTalkClown 23:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, see the video. WUT! BoboTalkClown 18:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

whata--Themonkeyman11 04:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC) ya know, i was right. but, as i was damn tired at the time of last post, i reread it and have to agree with the damage being to high. what ever happened to that suggestion to add 0s to the end of every # involved in attacks? it coulda been usefull here.

If you think kitchen and pocket knives can't be thrown effectively, watch this video and see if you still think that way. Damage of 4 is not too high when you consider how hard you would be throwing these things. --Uncle Bill 00:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Sweet! BoboTalkClown 03:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

After seeing the video of a thrown knife's power. I have no problem with this suggestion and totally wanna start throwing knifes at zeds. I also want nunchucks, but thats for a later date.--GunFox13 04:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I like this. It gives people a reason to purchase knife training, which is currently useless if you have an axe and full axe skills. It's a new tactical option that doesn't nerf any existing ones, it doesn't affect find rates, it's believable (I doubt that guy could have stabbed the wood that deeply),... I can't find anything wrong with it. Damn, I want this! --Ms.Panes 05:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Finally! A good use for all those scalpels I find. Got too many? Lodge a few in some zeds! -- Quizzical  Quiz  Speak  15:18, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh cool, you are buffing the high level survivor. You are adding a new weapon with its own find rates in on top of the old ones. This means that a survivor will find these in addition to everything else he normally finds there in a set number of ap, increasing his overall damage per ap. No. Knives are for stabbing, not for throwing. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 15:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Did you actually read the suggestion? it isn't a new weapon, its a new use for an old one, that actually makes it a viable tactical option, as currently the fire axe is the only useful non-firearm weapon. People wouldn't find these while looking for guns or anything. The survivor would have to carry 2% encumbrance per shot(don't forget you lose the knife), same as a shotgun shell, but for less than half the damage and less accuracy, the only benefit being that it takes fewer skills to master, and you can find them side by side with FAKs in all of two locations. This isn't unbalanced in any way.--Corndoghero^T-S-Z 17:15, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Caught not reading the suggestion, Grim! BoboTalkClown 18:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Er... damn. Objection on that front withdrawn. Made the mistake because you piled in a whole bunch of irrelevant statistics, and i was extremely tired. That said, a thrown knife shouldnt do more damage than a stabbing. You can stab just as hard as you throw, but knives decelerate in the air, reducing their striking velocity and thus the amount of damage they do. Also, Throwing knoves is far too trenchcoaty for UD. --The Grimch ^{U! E! WAT!} 04:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

As for 26.I.2008, 18:02 GMT +1 time : 8984 total of military class survivors, 3611 of scientists, 11191 civilians.I do not know how the British military training progresses (opinions that Malton is in G.B. are frequent), but I'm rather sure that soldiers are trained how to fight with use of throwing knives, and therefore the higher damage would be fully logical to appear.--James beckerson 17:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

While all those knife throwing vids are impressive, I suspect that if the same guy used hand force to slam a knife into that board, it would go in even deeper. Why should a thrown knife do double damage?  Swiers 18:45, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, look at it this way... I've got a knife and I'm going to attack somebody in the traditional knife fighting style. That means I am swiping, stabing, and constantly looking for an opening. In the end, I would do a lot more damage to the other person than if I just threw it, but it would take several attacks. I am suggesting 4 damage for a thrown knife for game balance. Any less and you would never do it. Any more and it would have been over powered. --Uncle Bill 04:21, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I realize its about game balance; I'm looking for some flavor to justify it, as arbitrary but balanced mechanics aren't very good. The number of people killed by stabbing HUGELY exceeds those killed by thrown knives, and its not because murderers want to keep the knife.  Swiers 04:40, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I can't throw a ball worth beans, but I can hit a nail with a hammer. I think the explanation for why more knife killings are by stabbing vs. thrown knives is a skills/coordination issue rather than concerns about which way to kill is inherently more deadly. --Ms.Panes 05:01, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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It's a shame that four people can overrule eighteen, even after every precaution was made to ensure this wasn't a dupe before it was taken to voting. --Uncle Bill 22:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Keep is not a vote for it not being a dupe, many users don't know if something is a dupe or are big enough assholes not to care. We seem to be getting a lot of the latter lately.--Karek^maps?! 23:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

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