Suggestion talk:20080721 Random Number Generator

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Discussion From Talk/Development (Random Number Generator)

"RANDOM.ORG offers true random numbers to anyone on the Internet. The randomness comes from atmospheric noise, which for many purposes is better than the pseudo-random number algorithms typically used in computer programs."

Uh, yeah. I doubt Kevan's going to upgrade his game to take into account atmospheric noise. It'd be far better to just let the RNG gods have it their way. For the most part, the RNG Gods usually favor successes rather than failures, so implementing true random number generators may actually be a nerf to everyone.--ShadowScope'the true enemy' 06:48, 13 July 2008 (BST)

If you are going to put this up for voting I suggest that you briefly explain the terms pseudo/true random number generator. Many people (including me before I used google) will have no idea how they work and what the huge difference is. And making people have to look for the information can make people less inclined to vote for the suggestion. Next thing, from what I read true randomness requires a physical phenomenon that is presumed to be random as a basis. Doesn't this mean the server would require external date (or did I totally misunderstand)? - User:Whitehouse 07:08, 13 July 2008 (BST)

Usually, yes, external data is needed to generate true randomness (well, as close to true as we're gonna get, at any rate). But you can just use any of a number of sites to gather that external data and spit out random numbers your you. Honestly though, whether you're using a pseudo or true RNG, as long as the percentage chances of each outcome are equal, it doesn't matter which one you're using, your outcome in the long run is still going to be the same. -- Ashnazg, 2212, 13 July 2008 (GMT)

I believe most statistical tests of the game's RNG have shown that over the long term it is accurate to the stated percentages. It may be somewhat 'streaky' for some people but thats not really any reason to significantly change it. You should also run your suggestion through a spell-checker before you post it. --The Malton Globetrotters#4 - Haberdash 555Manbabies.gifTMG 07:35, 13 July 2008 (BST)

Runs of bad or good luck are also a part of true randomness, not just pseudo-RNGs. They're not glitches, just bad luck. --Midianian|T|T:S|C:RCS| 13:37, 13 July 2008 (BST)

Well I'm taking the fact that my suggestion hasn't been shot down in a burning pile of flames as a good sign. I will indeed explain the differences between the two whitehouse, thank you for the suggestion. The matter of whether Kevin's PRNG actually represents accurate odds, or is subject to glitches that cause "streak" effects is unknown, but simply switching out the coding shouldn't be very difficult, and at the very least people would no longer be able to claim that they're being cheated by the PRNG, and I think acceptance of bad luck in Urban Dead would improve very much in general.
P.S. sorry about forgetting to spell check.-- Techercizer (Food) (TSoE) 17:26, 13 July 2008 (BST)

Commonly available PRNG's (IE, those built into almost every programming language) are good enough that cryptographic analysis is needed to tell them apart for random noise, and inflict minimal server overhaed. Also, with truly random human elements controling the order in which PRNG results are served up, even a rather poor PRNG is fine for Urban Dead as long as it fulfills a few basic requirements.

  • Produces an even spread of results across its range.
  • Output is not dependent on player knowable / controlable input (such as, perhaps, time of request).
  • "Clumping" ("streeks") consistent with true random behavior, not significantly more or less common than for true random.

Even random.org advocates the use of a PRNG for "simultation and modeling" (ie, gaming) purposes, and admits that TRNGs have poor effeciency (IE, high server overhead).

SIM Core Map.png Swiers 19:43, 13 July 2008 (BST)

I get bad luck streaks but I also get good luck streaks. It all makes the game funner; it's just like gambling for a hit. --Arcology 02:10, 14 July 2008 (BST)

I've never really thought about this, actually. I've never wondered about whats cause streaks, good or bad. for the most part though, i just accept it and move on. --Themonkeyman11 03:16, 14 July 2008 (BST)

Well I'm taking this to voting, if no one has any strong objections or spammed precedents. In about a day or two I'll put this up, if anyone thinks this is a spamtacular waste of space, let me know here so I can reconsider.-- Techercizer (Food) (TSoE) 07:10, 20 July 2008 (BST)

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