Talk:Malton Army of National Liberation
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|03:18, 6 June 2008 (BST)
Request for Aid
We see that you are members of the Malton Uprising, and therefor opponents of tyranny and oppression. We wish to bring your attention to another case of tyranny and oppression. The Imperium, which also is a member of the Uprising, has launched three attacks now on the Gibsonton Squatters, without any bloodshed from the Squatters in return. These attacks have been aimed to silence our voices and drive us from the suburb they seek hegemony over. We are badly outnumbered and fighting to save ourselves from total destruction. This is exactly the kind of action the Malton Uprising was meant to oppose. We beg you, as free people, to oppose this action, either by cutting ties with the Imperium or by aiding us in our struggle for autonomy and liberty from their rule. --Fenian 03:30, 5 April 2010 (BST)
- Please note that the Squatters have been harassing us for some time using intentionally inflammatory rhetoric and outright insults, and that they were the first to threaten war if we did not accede to their ridiculous and humiliating demands listed on the Imperium's talk page (toward the bottom of the "Murder" section).--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 03:41, 5 April 2010 (BST)
- Please note that their first murder was before our rhetoric became more confrontational, and that we have never harmed an Imperium member. We believe in free speech, and having been murdered more than once by this group for our exercise of our speech, our demands were nothing less than reasonable. Such thuggery cannot be condoned. These thugs are anti-revolutionary and may come for you someday if we do not stop them now. --Fenian 04:50, 5 April 2010 (BST)
It looks to me like you need to review your history Fenian. Do I sound familiar? I started the Uprising, and the group before that inflamed people enough to make the uprising possible. I told you that I was once like you. The revolution will not come about the way you are trying. We need to have a private chat. --Alphy 17:33, 6 April 2010 (BST)
- You misunderstand our intent- we are not initiating violence in the name of revolution. We were pursuing revolution by cultural means and the spreading of revolutionary thought, and were attacked. We act in self-defense. --Fenian 17:38, 6 April 2010 (BST)
Well the people you are summoning to your aid will not further your goal.--Alphy 21:21, 6 April 2010 (BST)
- Well, that said, there's no need to threaten us about it. We're already fighting an Imperialist group, we don't need to start fighting other revolutionaries. I must speak plainly, and do not mean to inflame you, but to appeal to the better angels of your nature, or, so failing, be frank in my opinion. Your group has previously allied with anarchists against oppressive groups, and stands for both freedom of speech and the freedom of groups from the laws of larger groups- such as Imperium laws against heresy and dissent. This is a clearly cut case in which we are a revolutionary group being attacked by a larger group for voicing opinions against their claimed ownership of the suburb of Gibsonton. Will all of this be thrown away because the groups we contacted for aid include PKers? We are being murdered daily. We are being hunted. When we can strike back at our oppressors, we seek any hand that will help. If for this, you would abandon us and Gibsonton to the iron boot of Imperium slavery, or enter the battle on the side of our oppressors, so be it. But don't expect us to consider you comrades in the revolutionary struggle, if you would disregard its principles. --Fenian 05:55, 8 April 2010 (BST)
- If we're so oppressive, why aren't any of Gibsonton's other inhabitants joining you? It isn't exactly a secret that we're at war, and surely they would be eager to strike back against the hated overlords. For that matter, why aren't we at war with the Beavers, or the Crocodile worshippers, or the Aces? Not even Benzuli is interested, and we actually were at war with them once.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 06:57, 8 April 2010 (BST)
- The fact that the ungrouped survivors of Gibsonton have, with the exception of your spies, been neglecting to reveal our locations to you, and have been revealing yours to us, speaks volumes. --Fenian 15:54, 8 April 2010 (BST)
- What spies? All members of the Imperium are required to wear their tags at all times or risk expulsion from the group. To quote the Lord General, "Either you are proud to be an Imperial, or you are no Imperial at all." The fact that you assume anyone who doesn't share your irrational hatred must secretly be one of us speaks speaks more volumes than the words of a few bystanders. All that shows is people like the underdog. If they had any real interest, they would do more than gossip.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 23:48, 8 April 2010 (BST)
- The spy that stood in our midst as we debated terms, and that now inhabits our home with your filthy occupying scum. That spy. --Fenian 01:23, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Does this supposed spy have a name?--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 01:33, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Klausen. One of our members witnessed him reporting the details of our discussion before the war started. --Fenian 02:30, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- And since there's clearly no possibility that the brutally oppressed Gibsonton citizenry would ever side with a group dedicated to defended the suburb from the undead hordes over a lawless band of malcontents, he must be a spy instead of merely a pro-Imperium civilian.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 02:41, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Lawless? Who murdered, RKed, and GKed before this war even began, and didn't punish the criminals among their ranks who did it? Who seems to hold themselves above their own laws when it suits them to get a group of malcontents to shut up? There's a difference between lawless and masterless. We are masterless, not lawless. You? You don't follow your own laws, only your deluded visions of a master whose pathetic corpse has been rotting away on a life support machine for the past few thousand years. Spare us your sanctimonious pandering. --Fenian 05:17, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Mistakes were made, I'll admit that. The previous attack was not sanctioned by High Command, but the offenders could have been punished more severely. However, Command has changed a few times since then, and Ulfgard attempted to be reasonable this time. He admitted wrongdoing on the part of an Imperial soldier and asked for your suggestions in resolving the matter peacefully. You responded to this completely unprecedented generosity with humiliating demands that you surely realized would be found unacceptable, while threatening us with retribution by allies that it turns out you didn't even have. In light of this apparent threat of superior force, it was decided that a preemptive strike was necessary to ensure the Imperium's survival. And now that your bluff has backfired, you decide to call foul. It's sad, really. You managed to hold the moral high ground for so long, only to lose it when you needed it the most.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 06:43, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- The murderer maintained he would not be punished. We had no reason to expect he would submit to punishment, no matter what his commanding officer decided- after all, his commanding officer was incompetent at keeping him from murdering one of the squatters. Funny how we, a leaderless group of anarchists, managed to maintain the discipline not to escalate this to bloodshed. That was your doing. Unprecedented generosity is listening to someone's grievances after two separate occasions of murder, one of which was complete with total destruction of the home? No, that's the *least* that could be done. Our demands were those of the injured party, Luther. If he chose those demands, we stood by him in solidarity. We had no reason to suspect you would accept any other demands as it were, given your contempt for your own laws, your assaults upon us, and your inability to bring your murderer forth for justice. But, your gloat is too soon. We have allies pledged to be traveling in from the far corners of Malton. --Fenian 15:14, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Holmgard refused to submit to your punishment. The possibility of a more dignified execution was never mentioned. And it doesn't take discipline to avoid attacking a more powerful group, it just takes common sense. Then again, one would think that not hurling insults at armed soldiers would also be common sense, so I guess I just don't understand at all. I assure you, a Lord General Militant of the Imperium actually listening to an anarchist group is about as generous as can be imagined. The least that could have been done would have been not even bothering with a declaration of war and instead regarding you on the same level as GKers and other petty criminals, to be executed at leisure. Luther's demands were foolish, and your support of them even more so. It has only brought you ruin. These allies of yours shall not save you.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 23:17, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Holmgard stated his intent to be punished under no legal code before our terms were declared. I assure you, I can imagine much greater generocity than reluctantly listening to a group you have attacked twice with no military provocation when they start getting angry about it.O)h, and treating as petty criminals and GKers? Who was it that destroyed the generator in our base? And the radio? And killed two of our members? Before we even started the war? Oh, yeah. The jackbooted hypocrites who don't follow their own legal code. Of course. --Fenian 23:57, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Reread that discussion. He clearly stated that he wouldn't be handed over to the Squatters. He never mentioned if he would resist Imperial justice. And, once again, that attack was unauthorized. I grow tired of repeating such a simple fact over and over again. If it had been an official mission, we would not have stopped there. Criminals forfeit their rights the moment they turn their back on civilized society.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 00:26, 10 April 2010 (BST)
- Unless they're your criminals. Then you refuse to execute them by your own laws even after they give a confession, and refuse to hand them over to the group they targeted for polycentric justice. It's sort fo pathetic, still, that you can't keep your troops under control. For your sneering at us anarchists, it's you who can't maintain discipline. It's you who run a pack of murderers who you can't keep under control. The Squatters have only had one PK before the war, and it was on a PKer. You lot? You PKed two of us alone without even a declaration of war. You can't keep your own men in line and stop them from murder against your own laws, yet you mock anarchists as criminals? --Fenian 02:16, 10 April 2010 (BST)
- It should be noted that the Squatters are the only people Imperial troops have killed without orders. We get along with everyone else in the region. And I had just decided to suggest executing Holmgard ourselves on the day you posted your demands. It seemed the best way of resolving the situation peacefully, and I truly wonder what would have happened if I had had the opportunity. I do not enjoy war; I prefer order and stability. However, now that war has come the simplest way to achieve order is to prosecute this conflict as ruthlessly as possible, and I shall not shirk my duty.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 05:24, 10 April 2010 (BST)
- Unless they're your criminals. Then you refuse to execute them by your own laws even after they give a confession, and refuse to hand them over to the group they targeted for polycentric justice. It's sort fo pathetic, still, that you can't keep your troops under control. For your sneering at us anarchists, it's you who can't maintain discipline. It's you who run a pack of murderers who you can't keep under control. The Squatters have only had one PK before the war, and it was on a PKer. You lot? You PKed two of us alone without even a declaration of war. You can't keep your own men in line and stop them from murder against your own laws, yet you mock anarchists as criminals? --Fenian 02:16, 10 April 2010 (BST)
- Reread that discussion. He clearly stated that he wouldn't be handed over to the Squatters. He never mentioned if he would resist Imperial justice. And, once again, that attack was unauthorized. I grow tired of repeating such a simple fact over and over again. If it had been an official mission, we would not have stopped there. Criminals forfeit their rights the moment they turn their back on civilized society.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 00:26, 10 April 2010 (BST)
- The murderer maintained he would not be punished. We had no reason to expect he would submit to punishment, no matter what his commanding officer decided- after all, his commanding officer was incompetent at keeping him from murdering one of the squatters. Funny how we, a leaderless group of anarchists, managed to maintain the discipline not to escalate this to bloodshed. That was your doing. Unprecedented generosity is listening to someone's grievances after two separate occasions of murder, one of which was complete with total destruction of the home? No, that's the *least* that could be done. Our demands were those of the injured party, Luther. If he chose those demands, we stood by him in solidarity. We had no reason to suspect you would accept any other demands as it were, given your contempt for your own laws, your assaults upon us, and your inability to bring your murderer forth for justice. But, your gloat is too soon. We have allies pledged to be traveling in from the far corners of Malton. --Fenian 15:14, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Mistakes were made, I'll admit that. The previous attack was not sanctioned by High Command, but the offenders could have been punished more severely. However, Command has changed a few times since then, and Ulfgard attempted to be reasonable this time. He admitted wrongdoing on the part of an Imperial soldier and asked for your suggestions in resolving the matter peacefully. You responded to this completely unprecedented generosity with humiliating demands that you surely realized would be found unacceptable, while threatening us with retribution by allies that it turns out you didn't even have. In light of this apparent threat of superior force, it was decided that a preemptive strike was necessary to ensure the Imperium's survival. And now that your bluff has backfired, you decide to call foul. It's sad, really. You managed to hold the moral high ground for so long, only to lose it when you needed it the most.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 06:43, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Lawless? Who murdered, RKed, and GKed before this war even began, and didn't punish the criminals among their ranks who did it? Who seems to hold themselves above their own laws when it suits them to get a group of malcontents to shut up? There's a difference between lawless and masterless. We are masterless, not lawless. You? You don't follow your own laws, only your deluded visions of a master whose pathetic corpse has been rotting away on a life support machine for the past few thousand years. Spare us your sanctimonious pandering. --Fenian 05:17, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- And since there's clearly no possibility that the brutally oppressed Gibsonton citizenry would ever side with a group dedicated to defended the suburb from the undead hordes over a lawless band of malcontents, he must be a spy instead of merely a pro-Imperium civilian.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 02:41, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Klausen. One of our members witnessed him reporting the details of our discussion before the war started. --Fenian 02:30, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- Does this supposed spy have a name?--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 01:33, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- The spy that stood in our midst as we debated terms, and that now inhabits our home with your filthy occupying scum. That spy. --Fenian 01:23, 9 April 2010 (BST)
- What spies? All members of the Imperium are required to wear their tags at all times or risk expulsion from the group. To quote the Lord General, "Either you are proud to be an Imperial, or you are no Imperial at all." The fact that you assume anyone who doesn't share your irrational hatred must secretly be one of us speaks speaks more volumes than the words of a few bystanders. All that shows is people like the underdog. If they had any real interest, they would do more than gossip.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 23:48, 8 April 2010 (BST)
- The fact that the ungrouped survivors of Gibsonton have, with the exception of your spies, been neglecting to reveal our locations to you, and have been revealing yours to us, speaks volumes. --Fenian 15:54, 8 April 2010 (BST)
- If we're so oppressive, why aren't any of Gibsonton's other inhabitants joining you? It isn't exactly a secret that we're at war, and surely they would be eager to strike back against the hated overlords. For that matter, why aren't we at war with the Beavers, or the Crocodile worshippers, or the Aces? Not even Benzuli is interested, and we actually were at war with them once.--Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 06:57, 8 April 2010 (BST)
- Well, that said, there's no need to threaten us about it. We're already fighting an Imperialist group, we don't need to start fighting other revolutionaries. I must speak plainly, and do not mean to inflame you, but to appeal to the better angels of your nature, or, so failing, be frank in my opinion. Your group has previously allied with anarchists against oppressive groups, and stands for both freedom of speech and the freedom of groups from the laws of larger groups- such as Imperium laws against heresy and dissent. This is a clearly cut case in which we are a revolutionary group being attacked by a larger group for voicing opinions against their claimed ownership of the suburb of Gibsonton. Will all of this be thrown away because the groups we contacted for aid include PKers? We are being murdered daily. We are being hunted. When we can strike back at our oppressors, we seek any hand that will help. If for this, you would abandon us and Gibsonton to the iron boot of Imperium slavery, or enter the battle on the side of our oppressors, so be it. But don't expect us to consider you comrades in the revolutionary struggle, if you would disregard its principles. --Fenian 05:55, 8 April 2010 (BST)
Holy ass balls. Yawn. 
01:04, 10 April 2010 (BST)
- *laughs* I know, sorry. This is what happens when RP groups go to war. Perhaps we should wrap this up? --Scott Timewell Imperium CFT 05:26, 10 April 2010 (BST)
Recruitment
You can either sign up here or on the forums. You should probably sign up on the forums. Any crap requests (if you know your not going to get in) will be moved. Enough crap.
I can't see the text. I have to highlight it. Is this purposeful? Ioncannon11 21:02, 23 May 2008 (BST)
- Nvm, bout about the forum, do you need someone to make it or do you know how? Ioncannon11 21:27, 23 May 2008 (BST)
I think I got it covered. Thanks for the offer though. Keep in touch.--Alphy 22:13, 23 May 2008 (BST)
Good Idea
I see your inspiration for this group, and I find it worthy. Good luck. -- THELORDGUNSLINGER 02:08, 28 May 2008 (BST)
- Appreciated. --Alphy 03:53, 28 May 2008 (BST)
Ryan Shuck
I would like to take up your offer of allyship. As you may have noticed on my discussion page recruitment has been slow, so for the time being I would like to operate as a member of your group. If you eould like to take up this offer please confirm. --Ryan Shuck 13:59, 31 May 2008 (BST)
- Thats a big 10-4 good buddy. If you want to sign up and have read the requirements on the wiki page then go ahead and register at the forums. --Alphy 22:42, 31 May 2008 (BST)
ihavenopatience
Hey dudes, I signed up for a forum account under my alt's name, ihavenopatience, but I don't have posting or PM privileges. How the heck am I supposed to get in touch with any of you? :\ --Drugsanimudongs 05:48, 6 July 2008 (BST)
Sorry about that man. I was out of town over the long weekend. Validated. --Alphy 04:08, 8 July 2008 (BST)
