Talk:Imagine/DIRT:NAP
Target profiles / Brain Rotters
How is problem of Rotters clogging queue decided? If all 5 revives are done while having profile links to target - where do they come from? most of people don't use DEM services and scanning all queue before start of protocol might also not be possible. --Duke GarlandTLCD SSZ 21:13, 7 June 2007 (BST)
- How does a revive tech normally avoid Rotters and find his two to four targets a day to revive? DIRT:NAP doesn't provide or require any unique solution to that problem.
However, I will grant that it can be hard finding profiles 5 good revive candidates who are all standing in the same location with you. If its constantly a problem, that may be a sign that the area you are in doesn;t call for such drastic measures; conventional "revive and run" tactics may serve better when there isn't an over-load of people needing revives. Here's my suggestions for how to get the profiles:- Remember that you can go into negative AP with your last revive. That means you can do a few scans yourself. I usually find scanning past a rotter or two is no problem; the more common problem is that all the targets in the area are scanned, meaning I can't scan multiple people and pick which I want to revive.
- Have a team-mate (one not doing a dirtnap) who needs XP come to the revive point, scan a bunch of profiles, and post the profiles for you to use.
- Use Dirtnaps during a mall siege or similar situation when you can easily contact list a bunch of people (allies defending the mall) you expect will need revives on a regular basis.
- While you are alive doing revives, ask people who need revives to say something (and to use the revive request tool). Then when you get killed, stand up again as a zombie and try to stay that way a while before getting revived. That way you stay standing and can hear people talk- and thus grab their profiles.
- If you can't find enough folks who are worth reviving to make your five, do three or four and then find a safe house instead of getting killed.
- A potentially bizarre tactic; have a partner who plays a zombie (with or without Brain Rot, but with no intent to be revived) move to the revive point, and have the zombie ask the other people to talk to him if they want to be revived. He can then pass the profiles on to you, and will remain standing (using ankle grab as needed) as a "message taker". (A system like I/Witness would make this very easy to do for the zombie player.)
- Number 4 looks great IMHO, as it's in Dirtnap's style - you'll anyway be staying on RevPoint for awhile, so will see people gesturing at themselves+their mates (2 good profile links from 1AP) --Duke GarlandTLCD SSZ 06:54, 8 June 2007 (BST)
Counterpoint
This is not an argument against the idea of DIRT:NAP, but rather one point given inside it. It seems to me that one basic premise of this idea - the idea that human revives could actually outpace zombie-caused deaths - is flawed. Sure, for about 4 or 5 days, you could revive many people - but then you would need to spend at least as many days searching for syringes. (Not to mention the time you must spend moving to/from an NT building, or finding a lit building you can enter, or holding off the hordes from your lit NT building while you search for a week.) Statistically, this wiki believes they have about a 10-12% "find" rate for syringes under optimal circumstances. That means in 50 searches, you will find 5 or 6 (and you need at least 5/day for this trick to work). If a zombie can kill 2 humans in a day, and you can revive a "net" of 4/day, but must spend a minimum of two or more days in preparation (both searching AND moving to/from an NT building), then you're still going to ultimately revive slower than they can kill.
Granted, this is a very broad perspective, but overall the idea that humans could outpace zombie kills just doesn't hold up. Which is disappointing, because this still seems to be the most effective use of AP for revives that has yet been proposed. --evilbob 17:28, 29 August 2007 (BST)
- You are correct. In the long run, resources run out, so its crucila to have NT buildings to fall back to for re-supply, and generally those NT buildings will (and should be) linked to a normal revive point. The group I tested this with (Vita Ex Mors, now defunct) ended up functioning more like a combat squad that gave boosts to normal revive points, than a self-sustaining entity. They stocked up in a safe area until they each had 30+ syringes, then hit a hot spot and did revives non-stop until they ran out of needles. My finding was that, IF there were buildings for the revived people to take shelter in, this short term kick to the local revive rate was enough to establish a more stable "normal" revive system. It's looking like it may be time to do that again around the fringes of the "red blob of death", where revives are slow and resources scarce. As you say, its not THE long term answer, but its a short term boost that can help stabalize an otherwise un-recoverable area.
Swiers 21:32, 29 August 2007 (BST)
Skepticism
I'm dubious of the effectiveness of this policy. Why would you deliberately try to get yourself killed when you can sleep in an adjacent ruin for 3 AP round trip? Sure, ruin sleeping isn't exactly safe in a lot of red burbs, but with normal search rates, it takes an average of 18 AP to find and use a needle. So in order for it to be worth it to spend 18 AP to accomplish something that can possibly be accomplished in 3, i.e. a live reviver, your odds of surviving a night in a ruin would have to be lower than 1/6 in an ideal situation. If there's a dark building next to the RP, you don't even necessarily need to scout alternative sleeping locations, because the odds of surviving the night with a zombie in a dark building are almost certainly higher than 1/6 unless you stay at one RP long enough for the local zombie population to figure it out. Your odds might not be amazing, especially considering feeding groans, but higher than 1/6 almost definitely.
But, okay, the situation isn't always ideal. Your RP might not be adjacent to a dark building, or you might not want to sleep with many other revivers. (One solution: have your group work several RPs at one time so you're not too concentrated in one area but still have a few people together to revive each other and clear RPs quickly.) If you were sleeping in a ruin before and know that there are no zombies there, you can go back, but otherwise you might need to try more than one building. Say it's an extra 3 AP to check another ruin if you don't want to get hurt free-running in. Your survival odds would have to be lower than 1/3 or 1/2, and even in the current Dead-infested Malton, I've personally had better luck than that. Having to travel for a revive when you die is another possible AP sink, but I would argue that decent coordination eliminates this problem as long as you have a few other people in your group working the same RP.
DIRT:NAPping can be effective in some situations, for example in extremely heavily infested suburbs or for groups that don't metagame much, but I don't see it as an efficient strategy in most cases. Even if you don't take stocking into consideration, your odds of surviving the night in a dark building adjacent to an RP are probably higher than 1/3 (3 AP trip/10 AP revive). Is there something I've failed to consider? If not, the main page should have a discussion of the math and the caveats. ~ AphelionT 18:30, 21 May 2011 (BST)
