Talk:Quarlesbank/Proposed new barricade plan

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To Moke: I was moving it to the discussion page. I was literally just about to post it when my mail said you have new messages. I had no Mal intent, I just didnt want the page cluttered with a bunch of discussion. Its what the Talk page is for, right? Sorry I wasnt quick enough, I'm slow when it comes to wiki stuff, I was just going to redo my argument. I figured that we could work out what we both thought was good, as I figured you came up with your counter plan as part of the barricade plan change.

Ok, well I can see what has happened there. Just be a little more careful in the future! And I wait to hear what you have to say to my 'counterargument' and I urge anyone reading this to thoroughly read the arguments for and against before making your vote. Thank you. Acoustic Pie 19:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


These are the arguments for and against the proposed new barricade plan:

Well, after much thinking and pondering, I have made a new Barricade Map, Based on the Old style, but with Idea's implimented by both yourself, me and the other voters.

Barricade Map.JPG

Overall I've tried to make this both useful to veterans and accessible to Newbies.

Now there are a few differences, but I'll give you the facts

  • 39 EHB Buildings
  • 20 VSB Buildings
  • 25 EHB Buildings are towards the north of the Suburb (Ie, above Boait Monument) as this is where I feel most of the more meaningful buildings are. There are the two well established groups Pitman Pitbulls and The Elson Phone Mast Building Caretakers and all 4 of the NT's. So having this area mostly at VSB would be barmy.
  • I've changed the layout of the NT's so Evett and Milnerr are at EHB, this is because they are closest to the 2 revive points and are the most used by both well established groups. Bachlin is towards Jensontown, so I feel they might appreciate it at VSB, and Haslock is usually well barricaded and populatedby survivors, hence it's useful at VSB.
  • There is a small Newbie Area which is around Emerson, Benedicts and Toomer Auto Repair. This is because these buildings are needed for newbies, and because there are 2 Auto Repairs then having one at VSB for newbies to get their fuel isn't such a big deal.
  • To the far south there is a VSB Fire station, so that's ok for anyone needing an Axe, etc.
  • St. Benedicts is now at VSB, this is because it's the only hospital in the suburb and newbies need a place to heal. Thus because of these newbies it would require someone to watch over the barricades very carefully.
  • Pitman mansion is now fully EHB and the Auto repair is now at VSB to act as an entry point, this is because having a corner of a large structure at VSB is destined to fail, so making it all EHB would probably be for the best, however it would depend on the discression of the local group whom inhabit the building , the Pitman Pitbulls if they wanted to keep it that way.

Other than that It's pretty much the same as the old map. Personally I feel this is good for both Newbies and veterans. It provides Newbies a well located safe place to stay and means that veterans can protect the same areas but with confidence of heading north if it all goes wrong. It's a compromise on both fronts, however it has more VSB Buildings than the old map and is allowing several buildings to stay at EHB. It's the best that I can do to compromise and I suggest that this be your final piece if you want my vote. Most of the buildings in QB were VSB anyway, and the UBP only says that 8 are really needed. So Quarlesbank was doing well already, making it one of the great places to start as a newbie, prior to extinction coming in that is. There will be no indoor revive points, honestly I just see it as a waste of an EHB building, when you already have two adequate revive points which are well situated. Do get back to me on what you think of my plan for the suburb, it is fully compliant with the Uniform Barricading Policy (to the best of my knowledge) and has suitable places for newbies and veterans alike. Acoustic Pie 21:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Kill Votes

  1. Change - Change Yea to an indoor revive point and space out the EHB buildings so that VSB arent in a clump so much. One EHB building is not much when you could be saving countless people AP and trouble. Many people other than who's in my group think its a good idea to take advantage of a unique situation. The rest looks fine. Also, according to your map, when they go to nearby cemetary, they have to go out of their way to get back into a Free Running lane! (Church) What kind of crap is that? Its why I said have an indoor RP. You go into the building (regardless of barricade level), revive, and free run into an NT!

edit:Lemme break it down:

  1. Going from NT to inside of Yea: 1 AP (2 AP if ruined)
  2. Revive: 10 AP
  3. Free run into NT: 1 AP

Total 12/13 AP from either NT.

Now, what you're suggesting:

  1. From Evett to cemetary near Elson: 2 AP (from Haslock 4)
  2. Revive: 10 AP
  3. Travel one west to Church: 1 AP
  4. Into church: 1 AP
  5. From church to Evett if Auguarde is not ruined: 3 AP (from haslock 5)
  1. If Auguarde is ruined: 5 AP (Haslock 7)

Total 17 AP from Evett (Best case), 19 Bad Case. 19 AP from Haslock best case, 21 worst case.

What you're saying is that you want me to spend 8 1/2 hours best case from Evett, 9 1/2 best from Haslock, 9 1/2 from Evett if ONE BUILDING is ruined, or TEN AND A HALF from Haslock, compared to a flat 6 or 6 1/2 compared to Yea, for what? So we can have one more EHB building?

Go tell all of the revivers that they can save a minimum of 3 1/2 to a maximum of six and one half hours on AP recharge from a revive if they do it this way. Then tell them they can't because you want "one more EHB building".

I'm just seeing the AP loss. There's more than enough EHB buildings in your plan. --StarmanHaxor 02:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, well first off you have overlooked a couple of things.

Mainly, The Milnerr Building (1SW of the church) is an NT building. So, all of your figures are infact wrong, so i'll put up how it is :

Now, what I'm suggesting:

  1. From Milnerr to cemetary near Elson: 2 AP (from Evett 2)
  2. Revive: 10 AP
  3. Travel one west to Church: 1 AP
  4. Into church: 1 AP
  5. From church to Milnerr: 1 AP (to Evett 4)
  1. If Auguarde is ruined: 5 AP to Evett (free running)
  1. However, because Haslock and Balchin are at VSB it would only be 5 (including entering the building) moves on ground to get to Haslock and 6 to get to Balchin.

Total 15 AP from Milnerr (Best case), 17 from Evett. 20 AP from Haslock, 20 is thus the worst case. However there are two other options before that.

Also, the church (Alberics) is a good entry point, it can have FAK's found in it and from the cemetery it is only 5 AP (including entry) to get to the hospital, which is right next to the Police department, so you already have the protection aspect. The free running aspect, I'm not too sure what you mean. The church isn't out of the way for a 'free running lane' and if it's the church I think you mean (St.Alcuins) then the cemetery next to it isn't a proper revive point, it's a cemetery and before that on the old 'cade plan it was weaver that was at VSB. Also St. Alcuins is right next to a hospital, so on the free running lane, what better place to stop off at if you're infected?

To be perfectly honest I'm not too sure on how many VSB buildings there are in the map I made. I tried to be reasonable and make it as fair as possible, with EHB buildings and VSB Buildings in the suburb, and the reason why there are more in the north is because that is where all of the NT buildings are, where there are a lot of groups and where there is a Police Station. The south has less as with the mall, the only hospital and the other Police Station it should in theory need the most entry points. The reason why there are a lot of EHB buildings is because people need to survive, and to survive they need the best defences possible in the form of barricades. So taking the majority of that away is basically signing a death warrant to each inhabitants in Quarlesbank.

And I don't mean to sound rude, but coming into a suburb and immediatley changing the barricade plan is a little over-zealous to be done straight away by someone who hasn't had as much experience in the suburb as others. I mean, so far you have only had the members of your group and a member of your old group vote yes on it, and one of them I was told to vote, and as I can care less either way I'll vote keep.. isn't exactly noticing what is going on. So what I suggest you do, is use the other group's forums and ask them what they think of the barricade plan too. That way you get a wide view of it which can then be said is not biased. I mean if you want I can go all the way to extinction and I'm they'd vote yes to the idea of millions of VSB buildings, as it means more meals for them! The whole point is, being a newbie in this game is tough and there are 99 other suburbs in Malton, and to be frank, this one currently isn't the best to have as a VSB suburb. With it's history of extinction, making it a newbie suburb will create a massacre. And this will mean less people come to stay here and so more people will keep leaving, so in the future this will be a 24/7 ghost town!

So overall I suggest you take the advice of all the 'kill' voters, and make a final version of your barricade plan and then see what happens. This is of course after you have got the information from every other group in the suburb and also the DEM, as I'm sure they'll have something to say about it. This will save you both time and effort in the future. Acoustic Pie 18:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

  • I suggest we use bullets and horizontal lines, it'll make reading a lot easier! --StarmanHaxor 19:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Well to avoid masses and masses of horizontal lines I suggest that each person makes their part to the discussion, then puts a horizontal line underneath that discussion. And numbers each part to their statement, however not excessively, just for every paragraph so people can then say things such as In regard to paragraph (e.g.)1... etc. Acoustic Pie 19:41, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Response I typed up to the last debate we had before we switched pages

  • I wasn't referencing Milnerr at all. What happens if Milnerr is down and Evett/Haslock are up and someone wants to give a revive to someone and go back? That's what I was discussing. "The church isn't out of the way for a 'free running lane' and if it's the church I think you mean (St.Alcuins) then the cemetery next to it isn't a proper revive point, it's a cemetery and before that on the old 'cade plan it was weaver that was at VSB. Also St. Alcuins is right next to a hospital, so on the free running lane, what better place to stop off at if you're infected?"

In what I broke down, I went from Evett/Haslock to the closest revive point. If you look in your plan, all the buildings around the revive point save the church are EHB. So, to get back to Evett, you have to go away from your destination to enter the free run network, i.e, you want to get back to Evett, you have to go into the church (which is going west when you want to go east to Evett) to get back. What if the church is overcaded? There wouldnt be a VSB within a few blocks, and if they're overcaded, etc. By having the Indoor Revive Point you take a lot of unknowns out of it, so if a building in the route back to Evett is overcaded, it wouldnt impact you. With the IRP you just go inside Yea and back into an NT.

There's too many options, too many unknowns on the way back. If one building is ruined, or, you have to double back, or go a longer way, or get attacked when you want to be back in the NT. Here's if you want to get back to Evett, main route is in Red. TooManyOptions.PNG

If Auguarde is an EHB pinata or otherwise, you have to go into the church, then go all the way around, go through the school, whatever. Even if a building is just ruined, thats a whole other AP wasted (I treat AP like Gold). That's if you want to get right back and not have to be dropped to street level. If someone doesnt know the status of all the buildings on their route back then they could waste AP going in and out of ruined buildings.

Or, like I said, you can take the simple route (Well, its a simple route. Maintaining it isn't really hard, but its not impossible) and have Yea ruined/uncaded. Milnerr can still use the cemetary as normal, I'm not talking about that.

The Malton Zookeepers use an indoor revive point and it works great for them and they have a similar building structure except they dont have a non resource building in between them so they use an adjacent church.

The RESCUE page also has stuff showing why its advantagous, as long as you replace "church" with nonresource buildings. --StarmanHaxor 19:47, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

1.Ok, well from what you shown I can see that it may be a problem getting into the church, but there are still plenty other entry points nearby. There is Bernards Museum, Cleal Cinema and The Buckenam Building, all nearby an NT building. So those 3 are still very good entry points. Sooo, It wouldn't really matter is Evett was down as Milnerr would probably still be up. And anyone with any sense would go into Evett, even when it's down and use a pair of binocluars to see if Haslock was up, then go into that. And there is still the option of Yea being turned into a pinata in a matter of minutes, then there will be more AP needed to put it back to normal and then any zombies inside killed.

2.And you're forgetting that someone would need prior knowledge to the suburb from the wiki to know the free running/'cade map in the first place, so if they didn't know the 'cade map from the wiki, what's to stop them just doing stuff normally?

3.I now see what you mean, You see I thought Yea was going to be a revive point for all the NT's, replacing one of the other two. But looking at it is being one specifically for both NT's then it does make a bit more sense. So yeah, so long as you keep it for those two as well as have them working on the cemetery, it should be ok by me.

4.Do you have any other bits you need to dicuss, such as the VSB cluster? Or have I cleared that up for you? Acoustic Pie 20:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Nah, I was going to redraw our maps based on each other and submit a final version. Do you have an instant messenger? I had no idea that you thought that I wanted to replace all of them with an IRP, I merely wanted to add it as one. Little miscommunication like that can throw a whole thing out of whack when you're not on the same page as the person you're discussing it with. And non cemetary revive points and barricade levels are always sprayed, The Crimson Clan did their tags like this:

"Zone N/S/E/W::27.50::EHB::crimsons.tk"

It lists what zone it was in (That was specific to the clan only), their radio frequency, the cade level, and their site. So if the QBG were to go around spraying, it would look like this: "Quarlesbank Giants::26.28::VSB::xrl.us/qbgiants". If you sprayed it, it would look like this:

"Elson Caretakers::26.28::VSB+2::(insert metamark.net shorturl here)"

Also, never use tinyurl. http://xrl.us is shorter and works just the same. You can also pick out what you want, like how we have http://xrl.us/qbgiants . I found this about a month ago.

Now, to maintain Yea as an indoor, we have to do this:

  1. Spray inside and out that its an IRP for the two NTs, and to not barricade it.
  2. Keep its doors open and unbarricaded.

I think that's about it. I'll go do the map right now. --StarmanHaxor 20:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Well in respone to the first bit, no I do not have an instant messenger. And I see what you mean about the barricade levels, however that looks a little complicated to me, personally the Caretakers spray around:

EHB/VSB - http://elsoncaretakers.proboards50.com.

So If I were you to save time and complication, just follow that format, putting a link to the barricade plan in tinyurl type. Usually people will be able to tell the group from the forum link. Also if you were interested I was thinking of setting up a Quarlesbank radio frequency. Not necessarily the malls, because it creates spam and traffic, but in the open frequencies. Check out the Radio page and put a thread up on the caretakers forum to discuss it there. It means all of Quarlesbank's groups can hopefully know what to do and it'd save said different groups having to use wide frequencies to get a message across.

Finally, for the map, I suggest you take the old style and just follow it like that. It was what I did and worked fine just doing it in paint. Took about 30 minutes when I did it. Acoustic Pie 20:42, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

  • I was going to say use the Mall frequency, that way there's no spam, unless you want everyone to be able to use it. The mall frequency is in the restricted-you-gotta-have-a-skill-to-use-it range, and I was just going to suggest Quarlesbank use that as we all use the mall anyway. They wont have to change stations to give status reports to us, etc. I also agree about having an xrl to the plan itself, having a link to it would be a good idea. --StarmanHaxor 21:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thinking about it, the mall frequency would make a lot of sense. So yeah, I'll go with that, so long as it's allowed and not classed as spam. Acoustic Pie 21:53, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Nobody uses it anyway. We'll be putting it to good use, and unless someone has Radio Profiencency, they cant transmit on that station, so that'll massively cut down on spam. Install gennies and transmitters in resource buildings around the suburb and we're set! I've already got 3 in the mall. Just make sure that everyone tunes to 26.28Mhz. --StarmanHaxor 22:01, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

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