Talk:Suggestions/24th-Nov-2006

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Necrotech Research Facility (revision of Necrotech HQ)

Timestamp: J Muller 06:09, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Type: Location Change
Scope: Kersley Mansion
Description: Bold Text is Changed from Original. I've tried to take into account all the problems people had with the first version.
  • Kersley Mansion will be the subject of major change.
  • A line will be added to the building description in the lower left corner, only for zombies or survivors with Necronet Access reading "A hidden door in the basement leads down a dark ladder" when unpowered and "A hidden door in the basement leads down a brightly lit ladder" when powered.
  • A button will be added, again only for zombies or those with Necronet Access, to go down the ladder.
  • Upon going down the ladder, the player will be in "HQ office", part of an underground 3X3 area. HQ office is, like non-Necrotech office buildings, mostly useless. It can be barricaded as normal.
  • To the north, there is "Residence block", searchable for newspapers at the same rate as Hospitals, but does not contain FAKs.
  • To the northwest, there is "Residence block", same as above.
  • To the west, there is "Security office", searchable for pistols, pistol clips, shotguns, and shotgun shells at the same rate as armories. Also, when the office is powered, a survivor and zed counts for all the other underground rooms will be visible to anyone in the room. Flavor when powered: "Security monitors are lit up with images of the other rooms in the complex"
  • To the southwest, there is "Necrotech Laboratory", essentially exactly the same as an NT building.
  • To the south, there is "Specimen Room", as useless as an empty block. The description reads "The room is barren, with a solid iron door and concrete surfaces."
  • To the southeast, there is "Infirmary", searchable for FAKs at the same rate as a Mall Drugstore, and "Large Scalpels" at 3%. Players with Surgery heal 15HP when this room is powered.
  • To the east, there is "Utility Storeroom", searchable for Radios at 5%, Radio Transmitters at 2%, generators at 3%, GPS units at 15%, Mobile Phones at 10%.
  • To the northeast, there is "General Store", searchable for Books, Poetry Books, Beer, and Wine at the same rates for each as in the Mall Book Stores and Liquor Stores.
  • The power structure has been shut down, so each room has to be powered like a separate building.
  • Freerunning between rooms is possible through crawling through large ventilation ducts.
  • If a room is ransacked, the zombies have blocked the ducts and freerunning into or out of the room is impossible.
  • If you don't have Freerunning and move to another room, or you have left the room, you will be "standing in a hallway outside X."
  • Rooms can be barricaded as normal and have doors.
  • Because of the construction of the complex, only a transmitter in the Office can broadcast to the outside. Transmitters in other rooms are only heard by those in the complex. Security Office transmitters can be heard by all, inside or out.
  • When dumping a body, there are two options. The normal option is the same a dumping the body outside a building and deposits the body in the hallway outside the room, still in the underground complex. The second option, costing 5 AP, is to "dump body into disposal chute". Any body dumped into a disposal chute is treated as having been headshot, even if it was not, and incurs the +5AP penalty (does not stack with Headshot!) to stand up. The body is spit up outside the lower left corner of the mansion above.
  • If the center HQ office is ransacked, the ladder is broken and it is impossible to leave. Any survivors in the complex when the center is ransacked are unable to leave until the center office is cleared and fixed. Zombies cannot leave either. Survivors and zombies can still enter the complex by dropping down, but cannot leave afterwards.

Obviously, holding this complex is a risky proposition for survivors. You have everything you need right there, but if the zombies get in and ransack the center room, you're getting out through them or the disposal chute. Also, its location (Stanbury Village) puts it close to places of heavy zombie concentrations. NOTE: I have a question for everyone. In attempting to fix this suggestion, did I break it more?

Discussion

I think Kersley Mansion is "the" natural best choice for a Necrotech HQ, but here's a couple of ideas you might want to think about.

  • First of all, please don't make it a mall (Nichols is just a little bit to the north). In fact, I would suggest you shrink it down from a 3x3 complex to a 2x2 basement. Keep the security office, specimen room, and living quarters. I'll leave the last corner to you... just don't make the building completely self sustaining! Here's a couple other ideas you might want to think about:
  • To find the ladder, survivors and zombies alike need NT employment. The basement (as a whole, not individual rooms) can be barricaded separately from the main floor. If the mansion (the section with the entrance) has power, survivors with NecroNet Access can go downstairs regardless of free running or barricade levels. (They punch in a security code or swipe their Necrotech badge... something like that.) Anyone can move from downstairs to upstairs to get out.
  • I also have an idea to solve the body dumping problem and make the specimen room more interesting. When you dump a body, it goes to the specimen room. Zombies waking up in the specimen room are restrained, and can't move or attack until they break free. This would cost 1 AP per attempt and have a 10% (?) chance to succeed. Bite attacks still work while restrained, but at -5%.
  • The specimen room also doubles as an NT lab. (Should be in the same room so the zombies can bite you if you aren't paying attention.) DNA scans could give extra experience and revives cost fewer AP... just a thought. After a zombie has been tagged, it can be dumped outside through the disposal chute. --Uncle Bill 20:09, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Based on the responses people have given, it's clear this is not going to pass as a mall. Dumping the bodies into the specimen room, however, wouldn't really work, as it would leave survivors with no way to clear the zeds out of the complex entirely--a weakness that has recently led to the downfall of Creedy. I'm a bit uncertain about making the specimen room in the same room as the lab, as in a large siege this might make it impossible to go to the lab without getting mauled.--J Muller 01:13, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


Secret mansion NT basement == good. This suggestion != good. Do not try and make another mall. I like the dormitory, specimen room, laboratory, but not the gun room. I think the body-dumping to the specimen room is awesome, but I think the headshot effect is horrible. The 2x DNA scanner is actually kind of cool, but maybe unnecessary. I don't think we get extra experience for shooting in the fort training ground, and new things should be fun for zombies and survivors.

I'm not really planning to have the bodies dump into the specimen room, for reasons I've stated above. Extra experience would be nice--perhaps they're taking advantage of a specialized wifi network.--J Muller 01:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Trapping people is a horrible idea. Scrap it. This means that either survivors will be holding it, or zombies will be trapped in there forever. So if zombies manage to take it, the zombies are trapped and effectively dead to the world. Trapping people is a horrible idea.

In case you missed it, that wasn't my intention, it just didn't occur to me that that would be the result.--J Muller 01:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest having the square you enter being a useless 'basement' square, and then having the lab, specimen room, and dormitory. If you try and make this a supper building it will get spammed again. Basements are a big leap for the game and an underground has been talked about for ages. --Burgan 21:58, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

That's one of those things that sounded better the first time. You have to admit how cool it would have looked so walk into a room full of zombies strapped to operating tables. But you're right, trapping people is bad. Even dead people. I still think there needs to be something new that can only be done to zombies in that room, and the zombies also need some kind of a colsolation prize for being violated that way. Right now the only thing that springs to mind is if somebody had surgery and the full Necrotech tree (mad scientist), they could do some kind of experimentation on the zombie... maybe give it a temporary buff and release it back into the wild?--Uncle Bill 02:39, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Having something that can only be done in this building doesn't really sound too good. If it was important enough to be worth it, all the zeds in the city would congregate there.--J Muller 01:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The only way I'd go for this is as a new complex / large building, as opposed to an underground lair. --Funt Solo Scotland flag.JPG 22:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm doing it underground so as not to shift around too many existing buildings. Where do you think it would go?--J Muller 01:19, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

You know, I don't like the idea as is. All I see is a mall with NT capabilities. But that's no reason to be a dumbass. So how can we make better?

  • First of all, don't make EVERY item available. Secondly, drop the % chance of finding stuff SIGNIFICANTLY.
  • When you say "find FAK at the same rate as in a Mall" does that include Bargain Hunting and Shopping, or just the base search %?
  • How about a reduced cost to manufacture syringes? While it tends to be thought of as a bad idea, this is, as I understand it, THE central hub of the NecroTech organization within Malton. So it would make sense that the equipment would be better than the "field offices" (ie. the regular NT buildings).
  • The ability to barricade each room might be a bit too much, unless they are considered "seperate locations" (you can't put up internal barricades in large buildings). How about this: The HQ Office is located under Kersley Mansion. The Residential Blocks under Back Place School and the Sprackett Building. The Security Office under "a factory". The "NecroTech Lab" under Dugan Way or the Geake Building. The Specimen Room under Batting Way. The Infirmary under Lorenzo GH. The General Store under Cabell Arms. The Utility Storeroom under Chalderwood Bank. And under Higgs Monument, an escape hatch (that, possibly, can only be accessed from INSIDE.). I think this would allow for barricading, using the vents, as you decribed, for Free Running, but the limitations would be that you could only get in or out through the central HQ (or the Higgs exit).
  • The Specimen Room seems intriguing. What could be done with THAT?

Or was I reading it wrong and it already says all that?--Pesatyel 02:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

No, your suggestions are good. FAKs are found at base percentages from Mall Drugstores. I considered a reduced syringe cost, but I'm worried that might cause people to vote kill, and I'm not attached enough to the idea of reduced cost to manufacture syringes in the complex to risk sinking the suggestion over that. The idea here is that this is less of a large building, as a mall is, than an underground complex of rooms, so each room is barricadable. And when you say the HQ office is located under Kersley, do you mean one room is located under a four-square building? The idea of an escape hatch is interesting, but zombies should be able to do something to interfere with that. Perhaps the Higgs Monument can be ransacked by zombies with Necronet Access, and ransacking it blocks off the escape hatch? As for the Specimen Room, I was thinking that frankly, not much of anything can be done with it. It's simply a useless room, like an empty block.--J Muller 03:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Well the "RP" behind a suggestion helps. Like I said, this appears to be THE NecroTech base of operations, so it would make sense that they would have better facilities for manufacturing.
  • Part of the idea of the escape hatch was to counter the above arguments that trapping players is bad (which is why I said it could only be used from inside). That way if the main room is ransacked (as in your suggestion), there is still a way out. Bear in mind too that players would NOT be able to Free Run AWAY from the location without first going back up to Kersley (a serious consideration).
  • The HQ Office, basically I was thinking the whole of the mansion (all 4 squares). It would be the same way any other large building is divided up. It also leads to there being more than one entrance to the underground complex (I was a little hesitant about there only being one entrance in the first place; too limiting).
  • As for the Specimen Room, a bit of a stretch, but what about a possible spawn point for new zombies?--Pesatyel 04:48, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

What is promising? Simple: developing/discovering new things for otherwise useless buildings, much like Kevan did recently with the forts. Daniel Hicken 15:00, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

This suggestion, as is, doesn't do that.--Pesatyel 02:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Blackout Curtains

Timestamp: Sgt. Expendable JG 00:35, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Type: item
Scope: Buildings with active generators
Description: It seems natural for survivors to not want to advertise the fact that they have a generator running inside. What I propose is an item that would allow survivors to block all or most of the light coming out of windows.

This idea needs polish though, hence I'm putting it here. I was thinking of a low or semi-low find rate, but I don't know the rates for most items, but I was thinking no more than a 5-10% find rate.

I could see it working a couple different ways. There can be blackout "levels." At level 1, the curtains only block enough light that surrounding blocks can't tell the lights are on, but those standing in front of the building can. At level 2 (maybe only possible at over VS+2 or only at EHB? This is because there must be some leeway for survivors to still get in without disrupting the blackout) no light can be seen at any time. At both levels, the external description of the building changes to add "heavy black curtains cover the windows." Same added to internal description as well. In this scenario, if the building is EHB with blackout level 2, zeds attacking the cades would punch through the curtains at whatever level BL2 is allowed, thus bringing them back down to level 1.

Blackout curtains, when added, block the light enough that it is no longer visible from surrounding blocks, but can still be seen if you're standing directly outside the building. The internal and external descriptions will have "Heavy black curtains cover the windows" added.

I think construction should be required to add the curtains. But this is debateable.

If there is some level of barricading required, and the building does not meet that level, the message "You see no reason to add blackout curtains." will appear. Or "Adding blackout curtains now would be pointless, as survivors entering the building would disturb them." or something similar.

As an item, I think they could be found in nightclubs, hotels, maybe cinemas, maybe auto repair shops. Anywhere a thick, black cloth might possibly be found in large-ish quantity.

Discussion Most people would say, "want a generator, then you take the risk of people outside knowing your in there." HOWEVER, with the relatively recent change to allow the lights to be seen from adjacent blocks. But I would only go so far as level 1. Any more than that and this will die.--Pesatyel 05:44, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm...I agree more or less with Pesatyel...with the recent change, this might be useful. But please edit the title for proper spelling. I don't want curtains that can "backout", thank you. -- Ashnazg 0456, 24 November 2006 (GMT)

Edited to reflect suggestions. Any thoughts on a barricade limitation? --Sgt. Expendable JG 07:26, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Long overdue. But you should change the name to "duct tape and plastic." :D --Uncle Bill 20:15, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think a barricade limitation is really necessary thanks to the recent change. If people won't vote keep without it then I think the only logical place to put it would be at the same level at which survivors can't enter from the street. --Wfjeff 21:27, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The only thing I can think of is that, maybe the curtains don't quite work at lower levels. Say at "open doors" there is a 0% chance of them working up to 100% at EHB (or perhaps even up to, say, 90% at EHB). Or it could simply be the won't work unless the barricade is ABOVE VS.--Pesatyel 04:55, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good but they should be destroyed everytime the building gets ransacked!--Honestmistake 17:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

How about everytime the barricades are completely removed, and/or making them an attackable object like generators or radios? --Sgt. Expendable JG
I like the idea that Ransack automatically destroys them. Doing it when the barricades are completely removed might nerf them too much. And zombies don't get any XP fo destroying generators or radios (or barricades) so adding another non-XP item for them to attack wouldn't be a good idea.--Pesatyel 05:37, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I think that letting them remain permanent until ransacked is too much though. Sgt. Expendable JG 04:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree, but the problem is that zombies don't get XP for "attacks" against non-player targets (generators, radios, barricades). They REALLY don't need another non-XP thing to attack. That's why I suggested giving them a failure rate. That or start allowing zombies to get XP for attacking non-player targets....--Pesatyel 07:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
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