Talk:Suggestions/8th-Oct-2006

Dismantle

Timestamp:	Canuhearmenow Hunt! 15:54, 7 October 2006 (BST)
Type:	New Skill.
Scope:	Zombie Barricade destruction.
Description:	This adds a new skill under Memories Of Life, called "Dismantle." Your Zombie has learned that removing the barricade, instead of attacking it, is more effective. This adds a new attack option called "Dismantle" upon a barricade, meaning you remove the barricade instead of bashing it, this always has a 30% chance to hit. What this does is it costs 2 AP per attack, but it has a 10% bonus against barricades. So if you wanted to take a chance with AP, then this is the attack for you!

Keep Votes

1. Keep - Author Vote, Rheingold asked me to suggest a zombie suggestion, and here it is. What can I change or improve?--Canuhearmenow ^Hunt! 15:54, 7 October 2006 (BST)
   

Kill Votes

1. Kill - I like your idea, but it seems to me it nerfs barricades to much. I can't think of any real way to improve it, except lowering the percentages.--Officer Johnieo 16:57, 7 October 2006 (BST)
2. Kill - Too high a buff. I don't follow this "zombies got it tough" argument anymore. They've had various improvements made to them recently in terms of skills, there are a bunch of good improvements sitting in Peer Reviewed that would buff them even more. In game, they seem to be getting on fine - the Big Bash squashes any 'burb it visits, the battle for Blackmore isn't one-sided in the least, and where my other characters are stationed throughout Malton, I get a hard time from zombie break-ins ALL THE TIME. This myth that zombies need constant buffing is just that - a myth. There's no evidence whatsoever that the lower numbers of zombies:survivors isn't simply to do with people preferring to play as survivors - not because of any specific disadvantage, but simply because of flavour preference. --Funt Solo 20:16, 7 October 2006 (BST)
   

Spam/Dupe Votes
Spam/Dupe Votes here

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Awake the dead

Timestamp:	12:05, 8 October 2006 (BST)
Type:	new skill
Scope:	Zombies and corpses
Description:	It's an established part of the game that zombies call to each other, summoning feeding partners from all nearby. With this skill, they will be able to issue forth groans that resonate through the unded mind, bringing new vigor to badly injured zombies. Awake the dead requires that the zombie already know feeding groan. It can only be used in an area that contains one or more corpses. Each activation cost 10 AP, and only effects corpses, not reviving bodies. Upon use, the top most corpse in the stack (if corpses have a stack, otherwise one chosen at random) is brought back to full vigor and stand up as if they had just paid the AP to do so. If the corpse has taken a head shot, then the first application of this skill simply removes this effect. It takes another to full awaken them. Each time a zombie uses this skill to bring another zombie to full health, they gain 4 ep. Simply removing a head shot effect does not grant xp. This idea isn't really intended to save the zombies AP, but rather to give them more playing options that are in genre and don't involve huge amounts of barricade attacking. It is impossible to earn more than 20 xp a day by doing this, and is likely to be less in practice, probably more like 8 or 12.

Votes
Since when are psychic zombies "in genre?" I may not be the zombie buff I think I am, but I can only think of one source containing psychic zombies (Monster Island). Regardless, Urban Dead uses "standard" zombies (best description). Besides, this could be just as big a nerf to newbies as it is a boon. Sure, they save the 10/15 AP stand up cost, but what about if they aren't ready to actually stand up (ie. player isn't active, for example)? Plus, if it isn't intended to save a zombie AP, then what IS it for? You seem to be forgetting that a zombie, upon standing, is already (and automatically) at full health.--Pesatyel 06:42, 9 October 2006 (BST)

There are no psychic zombies here, just one calling out to another in such as way as it invigorates them. Think of it as a battle cry if you like. As to whether they are ready to stand up or not... well so what? They were dead before this skill was used on them. Maybe they will be dead again before they log in, but if so, what have they losted? Ok perhaps the second time was a head shot, and the first wasn't, but its just as likely that the first was a head shot and the second wasn't. The original description already stated what the skill is for, to give the zombies more play options, so that they will have something to do besides attack barricades endlessly. It also gives them a means of gaining experience that isn't directly combat related. The Mad Axeman 09:55, 9 October 2006 (BST)

Why would calling out to one another invigorate them when they've technically been killed?--Mr yawn 21:43, 9 October 2006 (BST)

Zombies are never truely killed in this game. I look at it as more like stunned, layed low for awhile till they recover. That's also my reasoning for why you can still see whats going on around you while dead. The call carries a promise of meat, the one thing that always gets a zombie going. It cause an up surge in blood lust, and the zombie climbs to its feet faster than might otherwise be the case. The Mad Axeman 10:16, 10 October 2006 (BST)

• I'm at, say 15 AP when someone "uses" this on me. I stand up at 15 AP. A survivor walks up and headshots me. Now I have to wait another 7 hours (give or take) to get BACK that AP. Or did the guy using this suggestion stick around or return? Some people can only play once a day and this could, potentially, throw off their schedule if abused.
• Free XP and easily abusable. Zombie working for survivors stands up zombie. Survivor kills him. Zombie stands him up again. Survivor kills him again. Ad nauseum. I don't think people would appreciate that.
• Part of my reasoning (which I'm aware doesn't fit ENTIRELY within UD zombie "styling") is that zombies only horde because THAT is where the food is. They DON'T work in a team. Imagine a group of creatures so single-minded of purpose that, if there is a survivor there, they ALL want him. They don't take turns. They ALL want to eat. The fact that only one gets the kill doesn't mean the others aren't trying to get it too. While your "battle cry" idea makes it less "psychic" it doesn't work too well either.
• And, when I read it again (oops), it negates Headshot.
• You didn't answer my question. If this isn't intended to save a zombie AP, what IS it for? Honestly, I don't see how this gives zombies "more play options." Can you explain that to me? Did you mean the one DOING the "calling?" Obviously, I don't see how this helps those being "called."
• Essentially 20 AP for FOUR XP? Even if the corpse wasn't a headshot victim, 10 AP for FOUR XP?--Pesatyel 04:31, 10 October 2006 (BST)

What are you talking about? 7 hours to to get back your Ap? You've got 15 Ap, and you're dead. Someone uses this skill on you - you've got 15 Ap. A zombie hunter comes along a bit later and head shots you. You've got 15 Ap. The targets Ap total is uneffect by this skill. You were dead before its first use, and dead again when you log in. You got unlucky, but it didn't cost you anything. Even if no-one had ever used this skill, you'd have to stand up before you can do anything.

As for the amount of ep, that is negotiable, along with the cost to use the skill itself. An alternative might be that it rather than causing the zombie to stand up right at the point it is used, it reduces the cost later, when the player hits the stand up button. To be honest, I'm not sure if the abuse you describe is worse than attacking a zombie, then using a first aid kit on them, but I'm willing to make adjustments.

Whatever you say about zombies in films and books, its an established fact that zombies within the urban dead game do communicate with each other in a basic way. They have feeding groan, failing gesture and death rattle. These skills indicate that at least the more advanced zombies are capable of at least basic team work.

I don't think this nuffs headshot. It still cost zombie players more AP to stand up, its just that the bill is payed by someone else.

Let me explain what I mean by 'play options'. Survivors have three basic ways of getting experience, fighting, healing, and reviving. Zombies only have one - fighting. This skill will give them a second - invigorating other zombies to strengthen the hoard. I put this together to make playing zombies more varied and interesting. The Mad Axeman 10:16, 10 October 2006 (BST)

Thanks for the clarifications. I seemed to be reading it incorrectly (but bear in mind if *I* did, others might as well...), but then that's the point of the discussion page, right? It still seems..."magical" to me though. As for headshot, you specifically state that it negates it. The fact the cost is born by someone else, doesn't seem so highly relevant to me. And wouldn't this be easy to zerge with?--Pesatyel 05:33, 11 October 2006 (BST)

I think the best way to deal with the zerging issues might be to change it from an automatic success to a percentage chance. That way, anyone raising the zerging flag will be penalised as usual. Perhaps 5 AP and a 50% chance to work. I'll work on the description too, when and if I actually post this. The Mad Axeman 15:40, 11 October 2006 (BST)

Kill - I'd vote keep for a less powerful version of it. I tired something similar called Restless Dead (Peer Rejected, somewhere) But yours gives AP towards standing for 1 zombie, which is cool actually. Yours affects those who are the corse starting class I take it? Maybe do it like this for 5 AP your zombie does an invigorating groan and 3 of the 5 AP you spend is given to Headshot zombies 1st, corspe class zombies 2nd, other zombies 3rd. But each zombie can only get 3 AP towards their standing up costs (minimum 1 AP.) So you can stand there and blow a lot of AP to help out zombies on the ground, until you get a message "The bodies no longer stir to your calling... very cool the way you thought it up though! --MrAushvitz 01:04, 11 October 2006 (BST)

An interesting idea, and one that almost puts it in line with using a DNA extractor - you never know if you will get experience until you try it. It also doesn't totally negate headshot this way. I'll think for awhile, and see if I can come up with a way of combining this with what I said to Pesatyel. The Mad Axeman 15:40, 11 October 2006 (BST)

I'm thinking that the call would cost 3 AP to use, and has a 50% chance to work. If it does work, it reduces the cost to stand up by 3 AP. It effects zombies in this order.

1. Head shot zombies without ankle grab
2. zombies without ankle grab
3. head shot zombies with ankle grab
4. zombies with ankle grab

So in other words, it effects those who have to pay the most to stand up first. An zombie with ankle grab and no head shot will be able to stand up for free if this effect is used on them, but it only saves them 1 AP anyway. I think that a succesful use of this version of the skill should earn 2 ep. The Mad Axeman 10:14, 13 October 2006 (BST)

To summarise: "Here's this skill that lets high level zombies help newbies". Keep from me. Only change I would make (to Axeman's revised version) is putting it after feeding groan or death rattle, making it that little bit harder to make a zerg char for it. (Making it Brain Rot only would not be hugely effective, all it would do is make sure that switchers never ever buy it. Single-purpose Zergs do not care if they cannot be revived) --Gene Splicer 12:22, 13 October 2006 (BST)

Absolutly, this skill will require feeding goan before it can be purchased. The Mad Axeman 23:31, 13 October 2006 (BST)

I'm not sure about the exp gain though... I think you'd see quite a few kill votes because of it --Gene Splicer 16:28, 14 October 2006 (BST)

Ok. More thoughts on that anybody? I'm not sure myself, I will probably take it out if a few people say they don't like it. The Mad Axeman 11:41, 15 October 2006 (BST)

I may have been reading it wrong before, I dunno, but it seemed to me that this would AUTOMATICALLY cause the zombie to stand when used (as opposed to just requiring them to use less AP to stand at some point AFTER this was used). But it appears to be the latter, correct? But with the consolidated description above, I think it will work (my "psychic zombies" banter aside). And, as Gene Splicer said, people will react negatively to the XP, but zombies have always had the short end of the stick on XP sources (survivors have 9 different sources, zombies have ONE).--Pesatyel 23:49, 15 October 2006 (BST)

You are pretty much correct on all counts. The first version caused an instant stand up, at no cost to the recipient, the revised version just reduces the cost. I take it that you would rather see the xp gain retained for the final version? The Mad Axeman 16:01, 16 October 2006 (BST)

Definately. As I said, zombies need more XP sources and, given how limited they are in genre, there aren't alot of ways to do it (even if you consider that Urban Dead zombies are "more intelligent" then standard genre zombies).--Pesatyel 03:29, 17 October 2006 (BST)

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