UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration/DHPD vs Maxwell Hammer

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Conndraka and the DHPD vs Maxwell Hammer

Plain and simple... I'm tired of Maxie's BS. To top everything off he has created the Rabbit Hole as an alternative to the DHPDs Rabit Hole exclusivly to defame my charachter and that of the DHPD. A Brief look through his Contributions list and edits will see the truth behind his charachter. He has tried creating at least two seperate organizations ( Dunnell Hills Liberation Front and [[and made efforts to grief and harass myself and other members of the DHPD and it's got to stop. Jeff Oneil (espescially the edits up to July 6th)and Myself have both had his little tirades show up on our talk pages, the Talk:Journal:DHPD has numerous examples of his behaivior. We have made numerous atempts to rectify the situation but he maintains his little dilusion of persecution. He has acted like an ass unchecked for too long. Conndrakamod T CFT 07:53, 14 October 2006 (BST)

What specifically did I do that's against the rules? Don't I have freedom of speech here? The only thing I did that was against the rules was recreating a page. I did that because I didn't know the rules at that time. When I read the applicable rules I took it to undeletion and it was undeleted. It was then redeleted and undeleted several more times, because apparently no one seems to know what's going on.
The only thing I've done wrong is piss off Conndraka. Is that a crime?
Every time I try to put up anything on the wiki it gets deleted by the DHPD. This has been the case way before the recent one.
I'm allowed to talk on talk pages, am I not? And I should also be free to add to other pages. What exactly is the issue, here? That I've pissed off the wrong person?
Now I'm getting all kinds of threats that I'll be banned and that I've somehow committed some terrible crime. When all I've done is say some things that some people don't agree with.
And if I get to choose I want Mia Kristos as arbitrator.--Maxwell Hammer 17:29, 15 October 2006 (BST)


Just to note;

  1. Gage specifically said he undeleted it because he couldn't put up with your inane whining any further.
  2. "…all I've done is say some things that some people don't agree with." — What he has been saying is clearly against the TOS, is offensive in the extreme and is far beyond "roleplaying".
  3. The right to free speech is limited, Max. The right to swing my fist about stops at your face. The same analogy applies here.

–Xoid S•T•FU! 17:43, 15 October 2006 (BST)


Please quote the specific section of the TOS that applies. Also link to it. This is because a specific search for TOS and Terms of Service comes up with nothing on the wiki. I would also appreciate it if everyone kept the use of jargon words to a minimum, as I am unfamiliar with them. Also, Gage wasn't the only person that undeleted that entry. It was also restored by Max Rivas, and then deleted again by you.--Maxwell Hammer 17:47, 15 October 2006 (BST)
Max Grivas didn't restore it at all. The logs prove that. Anyway, the paragraphs that fit this the most:
The Host's TOS:
a. Upload, post or otherwise transmit any Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene (illegal pornography), libellous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable. Please note public IRC services may not be run on our network. Contact us for clarification where needed.
The Registrar's TOS:
"5.1.2 not use the Services, Ancillary Systems and/or Client System or allow them to be used for any unlawful purpose or for the publication, linking to, issue or display of any unlawful material (including any pirated software or any material which is obscene, pornographic, threatening, malicious, harmful, abusive, defamatory or which breaches the rights including Intellectual Property Rights of any third party or which is or encourages criminal acts or contains any virus, worm, trojan horse or other harmful code) whether under English law or regulation, the laws or regulations of the Client's country or any other place where the results of such purpose or the material in question can be accessed;"
–Xoid S•T•FU! 18:14, 15 October 2006 (BST)


None of that applies since I'm talking about a character, not a person. Also I've said nothing obscene or encouraging criminal acts. Anyway, if that's the case then I insist that the DHPD remove every instance when they have referred to me on their pages as libellous. And if it's the hosting company and the registrar's terms of service we're talking about then I'll just take this issue up with them and refuse to submit to this arbitration as it is not legally binding in a court of law. Do you really want me to bother the hosting company with this? They'll just ban the account if it's that much trouble. And I don't mean my account, but the whole wiki and game.--Maxwell Hammer 18:28, 15 October 2006 (BST)
How could this not be construed as hateful?--Gage 18:35, 15 October 2006 (BST)
My character hates another character and a group in a game. This isn't real. Why can't y'all understand that? My character is fighting a war against a group. Part of any war has a propaganda arm. Everytime I try to say something in the wiki about this war or my characters point of view it's deleted. The DHPD does not own the Cotty Street Police Department or that page in the wiki. I'm willing to give up the stupid "rabbit hole" but I insist that I have the right to tell an alternate veiwpoint and backstory in the game. The DHPD thinks that only their point of view is allowed on the wiki. I'm just trying to tell my own story. If they don't like it that's not my problem.--Maxwell Hammer 18:53, 15 October 2006 (BST)
First and Formemost Maxie, Since I have published under the name "Conndraka" so defaming my charachter also defames me,its one and the same. Its Just as if I created a char using my legal name. Second it behooves the operators of this site to regulate behavior that might in fact get the Wiki kicked, Third you dont have to submit to the arbitration read the little buit at the top that says:In assisting in Arbitration, we generally suggest that both parties agree to the Arbitration. This is not, by any means, a requirement, but we do require that both parties be represented in procedings. Since you have spoke up, you have now represented yourself and your veiw. and Finally your blustering (and insulting a total of four of the Mods in addition to every Wiki user that is also in the DHPD)will get you no where. Oh and Max, I'll accept Mia as an arbitrator... in a heart beat. Conndrakamod T CFT 18:39, 15 October 2006 (BST)
So, since you and the character are one and the same if someone said, "Conndraka killed me" would that lead to a murder trial? No, it wouldn't. Because it's a game and everyone knows you didn't actually kill anyone, not really. If that were the case then we wouldn't even be able to discuss shooting someone with a shotgun since that would be encouraging illegal activities according to the Hosting provider and the Registrar's terms of service. Do you see the fallacy in your arguement?--Maxwell Hammer 19:12, 15 October 2006 (BST)
No but saying that Conndraka is a "liar and a cheat" is subject to the appropriate legislation because the Character "Conndraka" is not a Parody of the person "Conndraka" but rather an extension of the same. Content that is in reference to the Game is allowable and deemed appropriate i.e. "Conndraka Killed me is ok"... Conndraka is a "Bull Fag" is not. the people who play characters named after real individuals like "Sean Hannity" for instance can get away with it because they fall under the "Parody exclusion" but since both "Conndrakas" are in fact the same person the "parody exclusion" doesn't apply. And in regards to your "Free Speech" your free speech makes baby Thomas Jefferson cry. Doesn't matter anyway now that Mia willbe handling the Arbitration. Conndrakamod T CFT 19:25, 15 October 2006 (BST)
Well, she does have to accept the arbitration. She may not want it.--Gage 19:30, 15 October 2006 (BST)
True... she might consider it a C.O.I. Conndrakamod T CFT 19:33, 15 October 2006 (BST)
If Mia doesn't show up I'm willing to do this one--Admiral Ackbar U! WTF 19:35, 15 October 2006 (BST)

Arbitration

I'm here. I will ask that Members of the DHPD and Maxwell Hammer refrain from replying to each other. Now, I've seen a good chunk of evidence against Maxwell Hammer. It seems that since the last history wipe, almost all of your edits have been to antagonize the DHPD in one way or another. Do you have anything to say in your defense? --SirensT RR 19:40, 15 October 2006 (BST)

Yeah, everything I've already said. If they're allowed to talk bad about me then I'm allowed to talk bad about them. Also, this is about characters in a game. I have no opinion one way or the other about the person playing the Conndraka or Khannoir or any other DHPD character. --Maxwell Hammer 20:09, 15 October 2006 (BST)
You're going to have to link me to specific instances where this happened. I won't acknowledge "he-said/she-said" as evidence. --SirensT RR 20:12, 15 October 2006 (BST)
Well, here's an example from an affiliated group. Most of this group has since joined the DHPD. You can also see, in the history, that when I tried to respond to it it was deleted.
Veterans_of_Fort_Creedy
And read this if you want to see more. This has all been going on for awhile. They have called me names for a long time...they actually started the abuse on the wiki. I never even came here until Conndraka pk'd me and said something about a warrant and that I was on some most wanted list, here. --Maxwell Hammer 20:24, 15 October 2006 (BST)
Talk:Journal:DHPD
All I see on the Veteran's page is that you made a comment on their group page, and it was move to the talk page by Xoid. This can be seen in the history of both pages. Because you shouldn't use a group page to talk that group, I see nothing wrong with this edit. I'll edit again when I am done reading the Journal Talk page. --SirensT RR 20:34, 15 October 2006 (BST)
I read through the Journal Page, starting with the January entries and moving onward. The first instance of your name I saw was as such:
Maxwell Hammer shot and killed one of us in Cotty Precinct. Warrant is Issued. Conndraka Out.
After this, there were several instances of your warrant being carried out. If the above is true, then this is of no surprise to me. Then I found your first statements on the page:
  • Why Hello, DHPD. This is Maxwell Hammer. I was having fun as a zombie, leading attacks on Caiger mall when someone revived me. I'll thank him by eating his brain later. I found some parts and things to make a radio here in the dumpster behind the mall. The army trained me well. Don't think I've forgotten my goal of killing you all and taking back my beloved Cotty Street PD from you usurpers. I'll be back. It's just so much fun being a zombie. Well, I'm off to kill some survivors in Pagram library and take the barricades down. See you soon, Conndraka. You got pretty lips for a boy. They'll be even prettier when they're wrapped around the barrel of my shotgun. Thinking of you all...--Maxwell Hammer 00:00, 9 Feb 2006 (GMT)
  • That was part of the plan Max, I can call you max right? or Maxey or Maxine. See I dont know if you figured it out yet but No One Cares.Come back by and say hello,we killed you once...and you are kidding yourself if you think it wont happen again.Jeff Oneil 04:38, 9 Feb 2006 (GMT)
  • I've died many times, my dear boy. That's the whole point. I no longer fear death. I have all the powers, even the zombie ones, except for brain rot. I don't need any more xp unless they come up with new powers. I'll just kill you and kill you and kill you. I'll take down your barricades from the inside and let the zeds in. Maybe I can talk a bunch of them into going for Cotty street after the fun at Caiger is over. I've added you to my list, jeffie. Be seeing you...--Maxwell Hammer 05:29, 9 Feb 2006 (GMT)
What I infer from this is that you claimed a building as your own, and when the DHPD moved into the area, you decided not to play nice with the other kids, leading to PKing of the DHPD by you, and subsequent Bounty Hunting by the DHPD. I would like to hear what both parties to some up their point of view on the situation up to Maxwell Hammer's comments on the DHPD listed above. I will remind you not to comment on each other's statements on this page. --SirensT RR 20:51, 15 October 2006 (BST)
Maxwell Hammer's Summary: The DHPD have created a totalitarian police state where no dissent is tolerated. Even when I left the area they sent people out to kill me. It's a war between me and them. If they can talk about me on their pages and on pages that don't belong to them I should be allowed to talk about them on pages of my own and on the other pages where they have spoken out about me. I was even told by Major Gage that I could edit the Cotty Street PD page and when I did what I said was immediately taken down and called vandalism. If I'm not allowed to speak against them then they should be allowed to speak ill of me. Personally I think this would lead to some chilling effects where no one will be allowed to dissent on the wiki. So I should be allowed to create whatever pages I choose as long as they aren't spam or such things.--Maxwell Hammer 22:58, 15 October 2006 (BST)
DHPD Rep's Summary:way back When, there was an altercation between sgt George Dolphin and another Charachter in which George responded with the term" We could kill you and through you out in the street. (this was uncalled for but no action was actually taken, nor was it said to Maxwell Hammer. It should be noted that the DHPD had been operating out of Cotty for about 3 months at that point.) Maxwell PK'd George and others responded. Max took it personally and began "verbal" assaults on DHPD personel and allies as well as in game attacks. (Rubix? did a brief summary on Talk:DHPD Cotty Street Precinct ) Multiple attempts have been made to rectify the issue and put it behind us (see February 12th, 2006, on the Radio DHPD archive and User talk:Jeff oneil from July 5-12) But Max continues to be irreverent and offensive. Conndrakamod T CFT
Max, you failed to follow my instructions. As such, I am forced to go with the DHPD's account of the event. My view on the situation remains relatively unchanged. I feel that Max began griefing the DHPD when they occupied "his" building. In other words, I feel that Max started it. However, after reading the talk page, I see that neither you nor the DHPD's representative can resist making comments on each other's speech, which I said wasn't allowed for this arbitration case. In short, Max started it, but you both keep the fire going.
Now, while the DHPD is somewhat at fault here, I cannot ignore the fact that it appears that Max's soul presence on this Wiki is to antagonize the DHPD in one form or another. Before I present my ruling on this case, do either of the parties have anything to say in their defense? --SirensT RR 01:17, 16 October 2006 (BST)
I (and the group I represent) only want a fair and just resolution to the situation. I beleive that any action by the DHPD (including myself) has been in reaction, rather than action towards max. Those currently posting on Maxs talk page are not affiliated with the DHPD in any way so I cannot speak for them, however I will endevor to inform all current members of your ruling once it is reached. I will say that I evedently missunderstood your instruction of not commenting on Max's speech, I sought to provide clarification rather than refutaion but I can see your intent in hindsight and offer apologies while you contemplate your final ruling. Conndrakamod T CFT 01:35, 16 October 2006 (BST)
So you and Conndraka can discuss this on the talk page, and I can't respond to that? I have the right to defend myself. Especially when it's on my own talk page. Someone mentioned a conflict of interest between you and Conndraka, what would the exact nature of conflict be? I was unaware of it and only picked Mia because I had talked to her on the old board before and in IM. Now there's something I'm unaware of, I'm being told. I think maybe you should remove yourself from this case or state the exact nature of this conflict of interest. --Maxwell Hammer 01:32, 16 October 2006 (BST)
I'm just continuing the previous post, not responding to Conndraka. Ok, one, he keeps commenting to me even after you've said to stop. Two, Mia should not have responded to him at all on the talk page in the interest of fairness. Conndraka's comment should have been deleted. All I can say is if you want me to stop responding to him, make him stop commenting about me. All such comments by him should be deleted...it's hardly fair or right that he can talk about me but if I follow the rules I'm not allowed to say anything in response. --Maxwell Hammer 01:44, 16 October 2006 (BST)
Ahem... she was getting on me for saying anything on the talk page at all, not your response. And the COI arises from the fact that she has participated in the Round Robin Tournament of Death which I hosted. However its beyond that now. Conndrakamod T CFT 01:35, 16 October 2006 (BST)
Conndraka, do you think I'm incompetent? Do you think I am completely incapable of stating my reasons for doing things? I certainly hope not, but it's hard to tell as you continue to point out things that I have either already read or said, or am about to.
Max, I responded to Conndraka simply to inform him that I had already read the evidence he had presented. At the time, I felt he was presenting evidence on the talk page because I hadn't giving him a chance to do it yet, and I let it slide. Also, if Condrakka and I have any conflict of interest, I am currently unaware of it. In my experience, the DHPD is not to be trusted anymore than a random stranger (Desk Sergeant Controversy) and is fairly useless in-game. I will present my ruling no later than tomorrow. I would like to point out that Max, you took the time to get on the offensive, rather than defending yourself, once again ignoring my instructions. --SirensT RR 03:09, 16 October 2006 (BST)

Ruling

In summary of what I have stated before, and still feel, I find that Max started it. While the DHPD members don't seem to help, Max's sole presence on this wiki appears to be to antagonize them. I feel the best solution is to keep Max away from the DHPD. However, I despise "Don't Touch These Pages" rulings.

Max Hammer will no longer make any edits to the wiki that could be construed by a reasonable person to be antagonizing the DHPD and/or it's members, unless those edits are in his userspace, or on his existing group page. If he makes any edits to the DHPD group pages, it is up to the DHPD's members to determine if it is an antagonizing edit or not (obviously, reverting vandalism could never be construed as such), so I would strongly urge him to ask permission before posting on those pages.

Additionally, to prevent possible abuse by the DHPD, no members of said group are allowed to make any edits to the wiki that could be construed by a reasonable person to be antagonizing to Max Hammer. As such, Conndraka, and any other Wiki mods that are members of the DHPD are not allowed to rule on any case that involves Max Hammer, unless his consent is given.--SirensT RR 22:49, 16 October 2006 (BST)

That's fair, that's pretty much what I wanted. As long as they aren't allowed to delete what I edit. I expect cheating on their part, though. --Maxwell Hammer 23:28, 16 October 2006 (BST)
I would assume that editing a page to delete your comments would be considered antagonizing, sooo... --SirensT RR 23:50, 16 October 2006 (BST)
Point of Clarification, Does the restraint On Max and the DHPD only aply to existing pages? For example As I understand the ruling Max cannot make edits to the Wiki (including new pages) that are antagonizing to Myself or the DHPD. Is this correct? Or am I wrong? Conndrakamod T CFT 00:43, 17 October 2006 (BST)
Yes, that includes edits which create new pages. --SirensT RR 02:00, 17 October 2006 (BST)
Thank You. Mia, I agree with Max a very fair and reasonable ruling. Conndrakamod T CFT 02:20, 17 October 2006 (BST)
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