UDWiki:Administration/Arbitration/MaulMachine vs Amazing

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Amazing vs MaulMachine

My name is MaulMachine, and I would like to request an arbitration in my conflict against Amazing.

Okay. You'll need to give us some extra information (like, say, what the conflict is, what pages it involves, etc. Once that's done, we can start proper). -- Odd Starter talk | Mod 23:48, 23 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Amazing

LOL. I was just about to take this up as well. Check out the Discussion page for Crossman Defense Force, Liberation of Crossman Department, and DarthRevan and their history pages. You will see a history of MaulMachine slinging profane insults, deleting my comments on Discussion pages, and rampantly deleting his own in an effort to then cover up his own profanity and hot temperedness.

Information

  • There is a Survivor Group called Crossman Defense Force.
  • A Zombie group, Church of the Resurrection, attacked our home base.
  • A couple people formed Liberation of Crossman Department (LCD) as a result, hoping to come back and clear out the CotR.
  • CotR left before LCD got back.
  • LCD discussed killing everyone in the Crossman Grove PD. The exact phrasing escapes me, but it was because of heavy barricading of the PD which they didn't like, and they also wanted CDF and unaffiliated people on the PD to join them, leave, or die if they wouldn't do one of the first two.
  • CDF didn't like this, there was quite a bit of back-and-forth about it.
  • MaulMachine has been a thorn in my side ever since, as you can see he follows from page to page deleting my comments and replying with huge amounts of insults and profanity.

This has happened in cases that did not concern him. Once when I was talking with someone in another Zombie group (OMEN) at which point he interrupted and caused grief -- And Once when I was leaving a message to his "Superior" in LCD (DarthRevan) and he decided to delete it before she ould come back and read it.

I have requested that he not deal with me and CDF stuff. His own Leader has asked him the same.

He refuses. This is just a game and not so important that he needs to resort to personal insult and profanity at the drop of a hat.

He has even followed me to my message boards and posted insults there and interfered. He is not even a member of the player group I am in.. why is he following me around and interjecting?

This amounts to low-level stalking and antagonism with the sole purpose of annoying and insulting me because he feels that he is somehow in charge of all these silly game matters.

It's quite tiresome. I would appreciate it if he could somehow be stricken from posting on CDF and "Amazing" related pages on the Wiki. Then I just have to deal with him when he edits and smears on other pages.. he really does not need to be bringing this crap to my feet, however. -- Amazing 00:00, 24 Dec 2005 (GMT)


  • Edit: - You can clearly see below that MM is full of lies, half-truths, and insults. I don't really need to say any more about that. All I offer though is links to clear proof of the specific lies he has placed upon this page. I know you guys are busy so I'm willing to drudge through the edit history and Wiki pages in hopes I can be rid of this once and for all. -- Amazing 04:12, 24 Dec 2005 (GMT)


  • Sidenote: - I guess I edited this while he was posting more and more. I have witnesses from Crossman PD who will attest that MM is lying about most of the events concerning "Game Moderator". I NEVER used profanity, and I never gave him some time limit in which to leave the building. Also, he did claim Game Moderator was a PKer, as his own troops can attest should they be called upon. I'm not going to edit any more here because I assume he'll be posting a lot more and I can pick it all apart ad nauseum. Just ask me if you want any more info and I'll oblige, until then I'll sit back and prepare the proof. -- Amazing 04:17, 24 Dec 2005 (GMT)

(Have to post once more for this: Part of the above has been admitted to by MaulMachine in the face of evidence and I guess is no longer an issue.) -- Amazing 04:57, 24 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Evidence

I present this clearly tremendously abusive message unedited as was placed in responce to one of my posts. MaulMachine removed it a short time later. This goes to his character as well as contradictions in his own words. Pay special attention to his mention of PKing "Game Moderator" and you can see the differences between his statements. -- Amazing

Now you listen you mindless little attention whore, I've had enough of your mouth. Now you either stop lying and insulting me, or you explain these baseless accusations. Game Moderator threatened to have me banned. How does that make him innocent? I was there when he came whining into CGPD, begging for your protection like I had done something wrong. When somebody, ANYBODY, comes into a meeting and threatens a ban, I get to complain about it. If you ever again so deliberately ignore the facts in persuit of your own little fantasies, so help me God I'm going to take it straight to Kevan. Get your facts straight. When Game Moderator came into Goodson,he immediately posted a message saying that we were all banned as of 12/14. Now if that isn't a threat, I don't know what is. I did not order a "hit," as you so stupidly put it, I simply said that IF HE DOES IT AGAIN, then he is to be headshotted and dumped. That is what I said, and you can quote me on that. Now, I don't know who this Jeff person is supposed to be, and I really don't give a flying fuck. Trying to go around me and complain to my superiors for the simple reason of petty vengeance is mindless and whiny. You sound like a little idiot. If I EVER catch you trying to ruin my reputaion like this again, then I will be forced to remind you that this is a fucking GAME, and that you and I and Cortonna and Rhombus are all just facelss little players. I don't CARE what you have to say anymore, I don't give a flying FUCK what you think about me or my stance on the CDF anymore. I can stand PKing, i can stand pranks, but I cannot and WILL NOT stand such lies and unsportsmanlike conduct. You will IMMEDIATELY apologize for these senseless and hurtful remarks, you will IMMEDIATELY stop your mindless slander and libel of myself and the orgaization I temporarily control, you will post this so-called conversation with administration you mention in your wiki discussion page,and you will stop the mindless propaganda against us in your said wiki page. I am sick and tired of having to fight a lack of control and supplies, endless waves of zombies, incompetant moderation, and your mindless tirades all at the same time. Have I made myself anything less than CRYSTAL FUCKING CLEAR?! --MaulMachine 23:27, 14 Dec 2005 (EST)

MaulMachine

MaulMachine, please place your side of the story under this header. Up until the part where he actually mentions me, he is not wrong. However, when he says that I "followed" him to his boards, this is a lie. The link was posted in public wiki, and I went to the site before hthis unpleasantness started.

- First off, I would note that when the CDF/LCD confict about the possible return of LCD to Crossman settled down, I asked him on the wiki if it would be all right if my men came back and idled. His exact response was I'm sure there will be no problem with that at all. -- Amazing 23:13, 18 Nov 2005 (GMT) Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I see no profanity on either part there. Now, as for the NEMO matter, you continue to shw your ignorance and utter lack of research by continuing to call the group OMEN. They are called NEMO. OMEN is simply a subgroup of the group. I would also point out that you claimed that 'OMEN' was PKing your troops within Crossman. In response to this, I was personnaly dispatched to Crossman by Cortonna, my at-the-time leader within LCD to kill the NEMOs within. This I did, and I also killed a MotA spy inside. After killing them and reading your repeated statements on your wiki page that OMEN and NEMO were pking your men and the other crossmen were doing nothing about it, I told you that I was there to help and you thanked me. This is where what you say happened and what really happened begin to diverge. I went to the OMEN and NEMO homepage, www.galacticnemos.com (I think that's it) and did a bit of research. I read of them and their past exploits, and discovered that the PKing they had done was began when you or one of yours actually killed one of them for no apparent reason. I do not know if this is true, but it seemd so. I came back to the wiki full of this knowledge, and I admit, a bit of presumption, and declared on the CDF wiki that there had been a great misunderstanding. I had, up until now, not said anything inflammatory or profane.

In fact, what I said was nothing short of a plea for all three or four of the involved groups to stop fighting and talk. You, with absolutely no reason whatsoever, said that I was "interfering," and "pandering to the enemy," and in fact went so far as to insult me by calling me a, and I quote: "DISGRACE TO HUMANITY." I, shocked at this rudeness, responded on the CDF private forum indignantly, again using no profanity, and listed a number of things I hoped would not happen between our various groups. You and another member of the CDF, Zod Rhombus, replied saying that I did not speak for the CDF anymore, and that you wanted a war with NEMO, though you continued to call it by the incorrect and more apocalyptic name of OMEN. The only reason I can think of for this misunderstanding is that you found it to be the more intimidating of the two names.

I responded, angrily this time, by saying that I was well aware of the fact that i no longer spoke for the CDF, and in fact had never claimed to. NEMO's representative and one of the ones killed by the belated CDF purge, deadgonzoman, a man of some standing ithin the NEMO heirarchy, sent me a note saying the following, and i replied as thus:

Re: Attempt at diplomacy � Sent to: deadgonzoman on: December 02, 2005, 11:24:02 PM � --- Quote from: deadgonzoman MaulMachine,


This is an attempt at diplomacy. Before casting its final vote the NEMO council has asked that I speak to you. I think you know what my stance is but I always respect the wishes of the NEMO majority and will do as they ask. You seem like a nice guy. But there are a few pricks in your midst that I really have a woody for.

1. Cease all NEMO related slander from your group.

2. Remove NEMO and any of its members from any kill on site lists.

3. Amazing is to delete negative comments about NEMO and post an apoligy in its place.

4. Quit killing inoccent civilians of any group unless you are attacked.


I have asked all NEMOs to pull out of your area temporarily to remove any misguided interpretation of a threat by any of your members. I have asked them to remain untagged and at least 10 clicks away from your groups positions. It might interest you to know that I was loosing the vote.,roughly 20% before Amazing started talking out of his ass. The vote is now at 46%. Twenty NEMO elders have withheld thier vote untill you have a chance to show this sign of good faith. Those 20 elders have the power to give me the 51% majority needed to declare a full NEMO collective war if I choose to do so.

-Deadgonzoman

Well...I appreciate this. I could never ask this of the Many or the RRR... Anyway, Amazing, you must remember, is not part of our group. Or perhaps I should say, we are not part of his. He is a member of a group called the Crossman Defence Force. He is neither its leader, founder, nor designated spokesman. I am a member of a splinter group called the Liberation of Crossman Department. I am the second in command and the designated spokesman, and the ranking field commander...though I have temporarily acceeded that post to another. TO be honest, the only reason I so adamantly protested is that he is an abrasive ass who is a known PKer. This is not the case of the populace of Crossman, or either group...he just is an asshole who 'til now has gone unchecked. the CDF is a reviver group...for all I know,they do not want a war and would retreat if one were to be declared. We, the LCD, are a different matter in that we would probably not retreat. We have no need, for we are not dumb enough to keep all of our Nectecs in one place. In fact, we don't even HAVE any men in Crossman right now...it's nothing but CDF idlers, most of them n00bs, joining only so they can be on the wiki. The real reason I dislike the thought of NEMOS in CGPD is because we draw supplies and recruits from there...but we have been attacked by larger gangs (larger, not necesarily better...and I have no wish to repeat the last LCD-CDF vs some horde incident...). LCD and CDF have different tactics, different troops, different bases, and different leaders. If you want a war, talk to a soldier called Exo2000 (CDF chief) or Amazing himself. Now, the reason Amazing killed one of yours was because someone said that that man/men PKed one of his. I have no clue if this is right, just reporting the news. Just know that if you do attack CGPD...LCD will not be there. We aren't even in that suburb right now, if you want to know. Neither is Amazing, or Zod Rhombus, I bielieve. Hit Crossman now and you will be attacking an empty shell. So...do what you want. Thanks for the wire...


MaulMachine, Chief Tactical Commander, LCD

"OMGwtfBBQ!1" Someone smart

PS You may not know this, but Minions of Apocalypse also has spies in Crossman. Perhaps you should ask if they know WTF is happening.

As you can see, despite the fact that this is a private message, I share it willingly.

Then, Amazing came onto the LCD wiki and posted this bullshit:

To all who may be worried or interested: There won't actually be a war. MM is taking an argument to the extreme and being alarmist. This amounts to two guys in a bar starting to have cross words, and a third guy running over and shouting: "FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!" before screaming out of the room with his hands over his head. Furthermore anyone dissatisfied with the notion of running away from zombies can scoot on over to the Crossman Defense Force page and join up with the original group if they're made of tougher stuff. -- Amazing 03:31, 30 Nov 2005 (GMT)

This is clearly meant to undermine my position and is an obvious lie.

Now, onto the rest of the story. Zod Rhombus, who until this point I had held in relatively high regard, continued to insult me personally, as did Amazing. I finally heeded their requests for a withdrawal, and left the CDF wiki page to plan an attack on Ridleybank. This is when a most unfortunate point came into play. It was on the evening of the 13th of December when a player by the name of Game Moderator came into the building I was located in, along with the majority of my men, and said

Game Moderator said "→ → Your account has been banned for 24 hours starting 12/14/2005 ← ← Please take this time to get your character to safety. ♠"

This is the exact message that was found in my HQ building. Taking it seriously, I asked that the remaining LCD confirm if they had also seen the message. They responded in the affirmative, and when I asked if they could see his profile, they responded that he had joined in late November, and that it was obviously a fake. On the 14th, when nothing happened, I indignantly ordered the LCD to kill Game Moderator on sight if he were seen again, and said that he was to be executed for sabotage. I did not say that he was to be killed for PKing however...indeed, nobody present did. Having said this, I went to the adjacent Crossman Grove PD to stock up on supllies...and who did i find but Game Moderator, whinging about how I had "threatended to PK" him, to quote him, and that I was being a big mean bully. I am not paraphrasing the languadge, that is almost exactly what he said. Clearly, he was unaware that I was there. Amazing's response was :" All right, Game Moderator, as opf now, you are under our protection from the LCD. MaulMachine, leave the building within 50 hours" (or some time amount like that) "or die." Zod Rhombus chimed in, saying that my "PKing" was uncalled for and that our grouyps would never be allies again. I told them what had happened, and posted a quote from the problem on Kevan's wiki page, asking if such a Moderator even existed. Kevan's respons and my follow-up comments were as such:

Is this legit? Because I have done nothing wrong...

1. Game Moderator said "→ → Your account has been banned for 24 hours starting 12/14/2005 ← ← Please take this time to get your character to safety. ♠" (12-14 02:28 GMT) 

--MaulMachine 21:46, 13 Dec 2005 (EST)

Ah. No, it's not, it's just someone who chose Game Moderator as a character name. There are no in-game moderators. --Kevan 03:36, 20 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Kevan's words: "And I've no idea who MaulMachine is," You're a liar, and the proof is on your own Wiki page. Wow. -- Amazing 02:57, 24 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Did you just call us both liars? --MaulMachine 22:29, 22 Dec 2005 (EST)

As you can see, Amazing is clearly referring to some "conversation" that he had had with either the real moderators or Kevan himself. It is to be noted that he had referred to this conversation in the past, in the context of wanting me dead or kicked out of Crossman. After a night or two, Amazing began screaming at me in Crossman, claiming that I was "conspiring to get him banned" and that I had "banned" two players, whom i assumed to be Game Moderator and someone else. When I said that I had not banned anyone, and I said that I had not banned Game Moderator, Amazing responded with this crap here: "Wow. I never said Game Moderator. Whatr an astounding coincidnece. Heh heh heh." Please note that this is a direct quote from him. When I demanded an explanation, he said that I had gone out of my way to get his "little brother" banned, along with someone named "Jeff." When I said that I had done no such thing and that I did not know who this person named Jeff was, he responded by calling me a filthy liar and a "meddler," and then accusing me of everything from lying to the LCD and the Crossmen to incite a war to wiki tampering to cheating and right back again, and when I repsonded that he needs to back these comment up if he wants to avoid a war, he told me, using much profanity, that I was "confusing the issue."


At this point, I lost any and all control. At this point, I lost any and all control. I posted angrily, calling names. I had done all I could to stop Amazing's rampant lies and childish information obscuring, his anti LCD meanderings and his lunatiuc claims. I had had enough, and I angrily spoke within Crossman, declaring that I had had enough lies. I told the now-silent CDF that if they did not retract their mindless ramblings, it would be war in fifty hours. No sooner had I said this than I was PKed and dumped. I have had enough of this mindless propagandistic bullcrap from the CDF. I demand an immediate and respectful explanation of his threats, a transcript of this quoted but never-seen conversation with Kevan, and a withdrawal of the empty claims on Cortonna's wiki page. Now. --MaulMachine 23:26, 22 Dec 2005 (EST)

Edit: I also wish to state that I have not lied once on this entire page, and that I hae noted any and all confusion about times, dates, and websites. Amazing, I have also stated REPEATEDLY that I do not wish this conflict, and that all I have ever wanted is an explanation. All you are doing is making my case stronger by posting links to the sites. I suggest that you do as I ask. If you really have done nothing wrong, why do you continue to deny me the goddamned Admin conversation?! You have quoted it, now show me the whole thing! I'm not asking much! I refuse to be blamed for something I didn't do, especially since you refuse to show me where you are getting this from. Also, who is this LCD you are blathering on about on my messages page? I have heard no such thing. --MaulMachine 23:33, 22 Dec 2005 (EST)

Edit 2: My apologies, it appears I DID, in fact, call GM a PKer. I sincerely apologize for this uncharacteristic lapse of memory. I still hold to the remainder of my statements though.

Odd starter, what did you do? o_O

He organized it. Your evidence is quite messy. --ALIENwolve 22:10, 24 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Zod Rhombus reply

Sorry to interrupt, but since I was implicated in the incident, I only thought it fair to respond. As far as any personal attacks are concerned, you will see all of my comments are on the CDF wiki page, unedited. I was as diplomatic as possible given the situation. I have never posted on the LCD wiki. I see Amazing as being abrupt at times and I don't always agree with him. I just wanted to show a united front to wiki users instead of the squabbling and personal attacks from BOTH sides that doesn't need to be on the wiki. As far as the Conversations in the CDF HQ that MaulMachine refers to, I have SAVED the transcripts. I asked him politely to leave -"MaulMachine, I believe it is best for you to leave the PD until this mess is sorted out." There was no mention of PKing him, only his answer--"So you're saying you'll kill me if I dont' leave?" to which there was no response. This conspiracy to PK him was concocted in his own head. MaulMachine was PKed by Evan Zero, in a strange twist that did not involve the CDF. I don't think Zero is an alt of anyone in the CDF, since he has repeatly PKed one of our leaders, Exo 2000. I don't see how the CDF can be held accountable. Evan Zero was questioned before he was killed and gave a reason for PKing Maul. I immediately went to LCD HQ to let them know of the incident. MaulMachine consistently demands answers and 'yells' in the CDF HQ, where he has no right to. I think Amazing and MaulMachine's personal squabbles need resolution, and MaulMachine not postinf on our wiki is a good start. --Zod Rhombus 00:15, 25 Dec 2005 (GMT)


Seperated from Zod's post to keep it nice and neat and so that Moderators can choose to read this or not based on their preference. It gets pretty sordid from here.. and now the moved replies to Zod's post:


Evans isn't one of yours. I know. See on the wiki where I thanked you for the quick addition to the enemies list? :P --MaulMachine CHRISTMAS EVE, AMERICA (EST)
Your write-up above is a bit misleading in that you've made it sound like the PKing was a result of what you said. A lot of what you have posted is out of context, like my calling you an embarassment to humanity, in-game humanity and you had called me an embarassment right before that. But the Arbitrator can and will go see that for themselves. -- Amazing 18:18, 25 Dec 2005 (GMT)
Didn't read the whole thing, did you? I specifically said that I knew Evans wasn't one of yours. --MaulMachine 15:06, 25 Dec 2005 (EST)
You have a problem with comprehending. I said "In your write-up above". Your words: "I told the now-silent CDF that if they did not retract their mindless ramblings, it would be war in fifty hours. No sooner had I said this than I was PKed and dumped." In your write-up above. Take your own advice and read. Take a moment to sit back and ingest the information, THEN reply. this is getting maddening. -- Amazing 21:32, 25 Dec 2005 (GMT)
Where did I mention you in the second sentence? Not once did I say he was yours. NOT ONCE. --MaulMachine 22:13, 25 Dec 2005 (EST)
Your convenient omission of who the PKer was in your original write-up alluded to it being related to your statement against CDFers.. And you know that. ;) Don't bother back-peddling on the omissions or the outright lies. There are witnesses and Wiki history pages that will just make it a waste of time. -- Amazing 03:17, 26 Dec 2005 (GMT)
I'm not lying. And I apologize for the confusion. You go right ahead and look through the pages, and you will find all the lies fall squarely on your side of the equation. I have had enough of you. Odd Starter, how long does this process take? --MaulMachine 23:31, 25 Dec 2005 (EST)
I've already proven you wrong several times. I'll save the rest for when/if asked by the Mods, I suppose we've mucked up this page enough. I'd push for a Ban for you if lying and cursing up a storm were against the rules, but really I suppose they aren't. All you could be banned for is Vandalization, but I don't consider that a bannable offence unless malicious. Give Odd Starter a break, it's the Holidays for crap's sake. -- Amazing 05:11, 26 Dec 2005 (GMT)
I haven't vandalized anything. At all. The conversation that took place between us was carried out on the CDF page because of convinience, and, funny, I didn't hear you complaining then. Also, you will notice, that you are the only one who has used any profanity beyond a simple emphatical outburst since this little arbitration started, and, hey, whaddaya know, I haven't lied. At all. In fact, on the very small handfull of occasions that I have been confronted with something, I have admitted, with all the appropriate humility and apology, to being wrong. I have not lied, you can not prove I did, and you were the last one to post on my talk page, without my approval. In fact, since this started, I have not made one single post on the CDF page, while you have the audacity to post on MY LCD talk page, and actually issue an order to my men. I have had enough of your presumptuous little backtalk, and I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop posting this libelous crud, stop issuing my men orders, and kept your little taunts and insult to someone who gives a damn, because as soon as this little conflict is over, whether they rule in my favor or not, you better believe that whatever last, tiny, lingering bit of repsect I might have once had for you will fly away like sand in a high wind. Are we anything less than perfectly clear? Do not presume to post your libelous, slanderous little quips on this page again, especially since they CLEARLY have no purpose except to rouse me against you. Now, I admit, though I do find your persistance in what I can only hope to be persuit of the truth to be an admirable and mutally shared virtue, your incessant whinging and implied complaints of foul play on my behalf are growing wearysome and repetitive. If you have any new accusations, be they your usual baseless ones or something with a bare hint of truth behind them or not, I would kindly ask that you keep them to your own section of the page, and stop cluttering mine up. Got it? Good. --MaulMachine 00:28, 26 Dec 2005 (EST)

PS... Merry Christmas from Stanstock.

You vandalized the talk pages by removing my posts. (There's one of your lies.) You have used tons of profanity, even on this page. (There's one of your lies.) I have not used profanity aside from the word "piss" if that's considered. (There's one of your lies.) Being confronted with proof you lied and then retreating does not mean you never lied in the first place. I can prove you lied though witness testimony. You claimed I said things I never said, and others can attest to that. I never issued any orders to your "men". (There's one of your lies.) Come out of the game for a second. You're not a Military General. You have no "Men". You are a dude sitting on a computer typing, and you're not even the "leader" of this group you're speaking of anyway, which makes it all the more surreal to hear you rant and rave so insanely.
Also, don't assume I care what you think of me, much less what you think about anything else. If you have any remote iota of respect for me, fine - that's a lot more than I have for you, liar.
This isn't your section of the page, this is Zod Rhombus'. Please try to keep things straight in your brain and don't speak unless you comprehend things. It just makes you look worse and worse, liar. -- Amazing 05:47, 26 Dec 2005 (GMT)
Every single word of that is a lie. First off, if you had actually read the pages you linked to, you would know that I am in fact the leader of LCD group. So you lied then. I removed my posts on the CDF pages, not yours. (As I recall) I have used no profanity that I did not explain. So you lied then. I have not made up a single quote on the page. So there's another lie of yours. I did not "retreat," I corrected a simple mistake. We both make them. So...there's another lie of yours. You said on the CDF page that I was "destroying the mutual respect." So there's another lie of yours. You have once more quoted that you have witness testimony. Once again, you quote it but do not show it. I am growing tired of your lies, and despite my requests...you continue to pour your ceaseless crap on my section of the page. You just said, less than thirty minutes ago, on the LCD page, that editing wiki is not something I can stop you from doing, it, quote "it all comes down to honoring requests not to." This is something you seem not to be able to do. Way to go. Now shut up. I have had enough of your prattle for one night. --I_think_you_all_know_who_I_am_By_now... 00:57, 26 Dec 2005 (EST)
As much as you think you're a military leader, you can't order people to "Shut up" or tell them not to post on LCD or DarthRevan's "talk" pages.. crazy.. lol Anyway, all your comments are pretty obvious bullhockey, so really I guess you're just been given enough rope to hang yourself. I am starting to think you are either clinically insane, or 8 years old.
Moderators.. I don't think Arbitration can do anything to fix this. It's just a matter of Maul being insanely creative in fabricating fantasy worlds, and me being too pig-headed to just sit back and let him lie about me. I should be the better person and do that, I guess... let the baby have his bottle. Oh, well. -- Amazing 06:02, 26 Dec 2005 (GMT)
So, now that I have categorically proved your allegations to be false, you retreat to the familiar ground of personal insults and attempts to make me look bad. Well done. I am astounded...dare I say it...Amazed?...at your continuing lack of any attempts to consider any viewpoints other than your own. Why is it that you cannot return the courtesy that I have extended you, and accept that nobody is right all the time? I have done nothing but argue in a civilized manner, while you fabricate elaborate but transparent libel in an attempt to discredit me. Wow. And you have the audacity to call me childish, to call me a baby? You and your allegations are absolutely absurd. I cannot see how such a simple misundterstanding over the orientation of a third party could have possible escalated into such a bloody argument. I cannot understand how a member of our shared community such as yourself can be so blind and wilfully oblivious to the truth. Haw can you be so flippant and insulting in the face of the truth? You have manufactured asinine quotes and blustered on about STILL as-of-yet unproduced conversations and witnesses. You have concocted wild conspiracies and unprovoked insult upon myself and my organization. Your arguments are childish, your method is crude at best and your online manners are nonexistant. You have had the gall to personally and indirectly alike insult me with uncalled-for jabs at my memory lapses, to which, I point out for the mods, I have not responded in kind...why do you prolong this needless conflist with your pointless bickering? I find myself truly flabbergasted by your endless tirade of insults and trivial responses. You have truly cast aside any respect I may have still harbored towards you. Congratulations, you have revealed yourself as the petulant little child I had discovered you to be, such a painfully short time ago. Until such time that the mods finally take action to resolve this conflict, I respectfully request that you stop posting...again...on any and all linked pages except to carry out routine messages, a gesture to which I shall respond in kind. Any faliure to respond to this effortless, on your part, measure to restore some measure of dignity to this proceeding will be viewed in my eye as yet another lapse in your already lacking internet manners. I am asking, not that you produce reams of data to support any claim,nor that you produce any new, undoubtedly manufactured "evidence" of my alledged "lies," only that you and I both stop this clearly pointless discussion until a neutral third-party come to do the job for which this page was created...namely, moderation and arbitration. All I am asking for is silence. That's all. I assure you, if you keep quiet, I will be more than happry to do so as well. Thank you. As for the evidence you have produced, specifically, the nastygram I wrote on the 14th, if you would have done the courtesy of producing the nameof the page on which it was posted, as well as its context, it would be clear what and why this message is. I do not deny its existance, nor do I deny the angry spirit in which I created it, but I would like to point out to you that I made this post in response to your declaration earlier that I was to leave Crossman and not return,and that you did not and still have not produced a shred of evidence as to a reason for your demand. Still waiting, Amazing...produce the evidence upon which the statement this quote is based on, and perhaps I will reconsider. --MaulMachine 01:22, 26 Dec 2005, (EST)
(sigh).. Do I need to remind you AGAIN that you're not a real military commander and can't make orders to provide you with anything? If the Mods want my private conversations then fine, but really you're being insane and obsessive about it.
This all started because you're a hot-head with a loose grasp on reality, and I don't just abide it. Once more, you are not a military commander. You cannot order me to produce anything you will then crap on.
I am done producing evidence and proving you a complete filthy liar. Here's a chage.. Why don't you produce one shred of evidence supporting anything you have said? -- Amazing 06:31, 26 Dec 2005 (GMT)


All discussion on this topic will cease immediately. I will take a day or two to read through the matter and review the evidence, and I will come to my conclusion shortly. No one is to continue discussing on this page. -- Odd Starter talk | Mod 06:36, 26 Dec 2005 (GMT)


To set the record straight, I'm not affiliated with any groups. My attack was completely random. I don't remember the details, but there was alot of arguing and complaining going on in that building, mostly directed at MaulMachine, so I just killed him and left. It was around the time I started PKing, because I got bored with killing zombies or being one. If you don't believe this is actually Evan Zero I'm sure we can find a way to prove it. I'm currently a zombie at the Maine Building in Peppardville. Sorry about the mess.--Evanzero 04:55, 3 August 2006 (BST)

Odd Starter's Conclusion

Before I start, note that I'm only a Moderator for the wiki, not for the game. Any hope that I can "force" MaulMachine to do something within the game is misguided, since I have no authority there. As Kevan himself stated on his talk page, there are no game moderators. Period.

In reality, this entire debacle seems to be a clear example of what happens when two players cannot keep their in-game differences in-game. To be honest, both of you are very clearly perpetuating this yourselves (as evidenced by the little spat above (There is no need to reply to the other's accusations, since I have the entire wiki at my hands to confirm whatever is being said)), and I think this has gone far past the point of discussion to reconcile, and is firmly in the territory of an argument to win.

Frankly, this whole argument seems somewhat petty. If either of you are truly interesting in stopping this spat, then stop it. Right now. Don't exchange any other harsh words. I'm not going to enforce a restraining order (because I think that's rather childish, difficult to enforce, and not my job anyway), I'm going to expect that the two of you are going to drop this and walk away. If at some point the two of you feel the need to talk with each other, I'd highly recommend doing so with utmost courtesy, regardless of the reaction of the other.

Thus is my decision.

Odd Starter talk | Mod 21:33, 26 Dec 2005 (GMT)


  • This was suggested to be brought to Abritration by LibrarianBrent, not by either of us.
  • I never asked anyone here to do anything to MaulMachine in-game.
  • I've noted I didn't think Abritration had any use in the matter.
  • I never asked you for a restraining order, just that you could maybe ask him to stay away from me. I know how a Wiki works and I know you probably can't specifically force him not to post on any given page through any other means than verbally.
Thanks for taking the time to check all this out anyway. I wish that the idea that I can walk away from it and he won't follow me was a valid one. As you know from what you've seen, I've tried that before.
One of the duties of a Moderator, either implied or expressly stated, is to prevent abusive behavior. This duty has now been flatly ignored. Either he is abusive, I am abusive, or we both are.
Vandalism of my posts on Discussion pages has also been flatly ignored. -- Amazing 22:41, 26 Dec 2005 (GMT)
Well, among other things that was more a symptom than anything else. It's also a vandalism, and thus should be reported to Moderation/Vandal Banning with the evidence. I'll look into it, see if your case has merit. -- Odd Starter talk | Mod 05:32, 28 Dec 2005 (GMT)
Looking into your case, I find it... suspect. If you are referring to this edit, I think you will find that it was not targeted at you at all, but was apparently a maintenance blanking. Further, while blanking talk pages is considered rude, it's not actually considered vandalism. I further note that if this is the case you are referring to, then you have not reverted it back (or done anything else to make the conversation more visible), thus I must assume that this blanking was performed with your implicit blessing.
If you are referring to this edit, This may very well be a candidate, with the issue that once the conversation was restored no further action was taken on MaulMachine's behalf. Thus, more likely a faux pas then a malicious edit. If he had continued further, perhaps. I see no grounds for warning or banning. -- Odd Starter talk | Mod 05:51, 28 Dec 2005 (GMT)
Thanks for taking a look at it, at least. If it happens again I'll post it on the vandal page, but since this was brought to Abritration I figured we were supposed to post all our grievances concerning eachother. I was surprised to find no mention of it in the previous ruling. Not reverting does not imply blessing - just as not replying to someone's post does not imply agreement, which will be a road I will have to take from now on, I guess. There was at least one other deletion by MaulMachine or page blanking, by the way. As I said I was willing to give more info/links if asked, but wasn't asked. -- Amazing 05:55, 28 Dec 2005 (GMT)


Not the outcome I was expecting, but I will abide by it. Any attempts to contact you, Amazing, will be resrained to IC discussions, and any conversations that are OOC will be held in public domain. And, of course, our mutual requests for no more wiki editing will be held to the case of an emergency. Fair enough, Odd? --MaulMachine 20:47, 26 Dec 2005,(EST)

Unbelievable. No sooner do I post this than I spy this garbage on the LCD talk page.
Your post refers to me as "You" so it was to me. Nice try but you're still a liar. You cannot vandalize a page by posting comments on a discussion page. Go ahead and try.
Since the Moderators have ignored their duty to prevent abusive behavior, I guess I'm free and clear to call you a malicious little turd with no Earthly value beyond a paper-weight.
You're an idiot and a loser who most likely has nothing going for him except for the temporary command of a UD player group. Get a life. You're less than a speck of dirt on the backside of a pig. When Cortonna gets back I will lobby full-force for your dismissal from LCD, lest our groups be considered adversaries.
Go to Hell, tiny-brained idiot. -- Amazing 22:48, 26 Dec 2005 (GMT)

I will not stand for this, especially since this was posted after both your decision and his reply. I have taken all I will stand. This goes beyond the realm of argument into flaming. I hereby request Amazing's ban for vandalism and personal insult,as well as an oath that this animosity not lead into ingame reprisal. I have had enough. --MaulMachine 20:53, 26 Dec 2005 (EST)

EDIT ONE: Nice. Not only has he defaced my page with this garbage, he has asked onb his group's wiki page for players to "monitor" my activity and has accused me harassment and unethical behavior, of which I have done neither. I refuse to allow this. EDIT TIME: 20:57 26 Dec 2005 (EST)

Ok, you want a 3rd party choice? I think both of you are idiots and that Amazing should start a slap duel between you two. Take it like a man and ignore him. --ALIENwolve 02:00, 27 Dec 2005 (GMT)

Are you a mod? The mod list says you aren't. So go away and let a mod consider my request. --MaulMachine 21:06, 26 Dec 2005 (EST)

Personal insult, I think you'll find, is not a bannable offense, and is in fact not our problem currently. Also, the group page is currently his, and wiki policy, while currently in discussion about this very issue, states that he is in the clear by adding this to his own group page. Thus, I have no grounds upon which to warn or ban him. -- Odd Starter talk | Mod 05:27, 28 Dec 2005 (GMT)

K. --MaulMachine 00:40, 28 Dec 2005 (EST)
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